10 with a repeat at 10 p.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. we continue the new week with espresso. thank you for being with us, these are khrystyna yatskiv and andrii smolii. in the 2nd hour, we promised you an honest conversation with our honest, sincere, frank people. thoughts about what is happening, about the trends that are currently being outlined within our country. i think it's very important, really, especially when it comes to critical moments, and certainly the most critical recent event is the assassination of irina farion, and the fact is that we, the people, who were engaged in information and analysis,

information could often turn to the person of iryna farion, as a politician, as a freedom fighter, as a linguist, scientist, intellectual, and according to the information motive that we discussed, of course, we also talked about iryna farion in in different guises, and sometimes, these were critical remarks regarding some points that were related. uh, people in the occupied territories, territories, for example, now colleagues from youtube are reporting that youtube itself has been throwing its algorithms at them for a long time the recorded video in my performance, in particular about e, is a small shot, yes, it is a vision of the situation with the crimean student, to whom, who wrote a letter to mrs. irina, and it turned out to be made public, in principle. no data and

the person got very big problems in the occupation, this video contained critical assessments of ms. irina's actions in general, and how many people could criticize her for something from their position, but god, it is definitely never about , so that within our country, having different visions of a certain situation, in general, it speaks... about, well, the physical the destruction or canceling of this or that personality, that is, if you, excuse me, are not a pro-russian element, then in principle we can talk and we should talk to each other, this is absolutely normal, it is difficult to disagree with vitaly portnik here, maybe not everyone would like to live in the country of iryna farion, and iryna farion, perhaps, would not like to live in the country of many of us, as we imagine our state as an ideal, but... that's what

we and ukraine are for, to talk about how we can get together in one field, in the field of our single country, which would suit absolutely everyone and which would be compromising and loyal to everyone, those who are generally in favor of the existence of the ukrainian state, well, we must remind you about the survey in any case, and before continuing our analysis in general, so friends, please dial absolutely without... precious and take part in our survey, do you think that the case of irina farion, the murder of irina farion is solved, yes 0800 211381, no - 0800-211 382, ​​all your calls are absolutely free, and at the end of this hour we will here are the results of this poll. yes, what are we talking about farion,

you see, how much time has already passed, a week and a half, yes, we see that there is a suspect, yes, and we see, unfortunately, how much distrust there is in the law enforcement agencies, there is a huge distrust supposedly to to to whether it really is. the suspect, the killer, it's different, people say different things, and that's where, you know, i really didn't like the trends, actually, for a week, a huge number of people were just there, laughing, saying, look, well, it can't to be this person, did some certain of their own assessments, everyone has become experts again here in ukraine, but, on the other hand, i perfectly understand why... it happens, it

happens because for years and decades , unfortunately, the law enforcement system has not demonstrated those successes and those their own virtues that she should demonstrate, let's remember the murder of gongadze, the murder of sheremet, the murder, then, of sadikov, and finally, listen, dozens, dozens of murders of various kinds, including journalists, including public figures, the murder of chornovol, well, that's it, to say the least retrospectively, if we talk about very old times, even... if you take the times there, starting from 2014, after the revolution of dignity, i'm sorry, but even then, there were a huge number of questions for law enforcement agencies, and the latest is the murder of sheremet, the accusations, yes, antonenko, the accusations of dugar, the accusations

of others, yes, yes, people who, which then simply fell apart, and i understand you, i understand why people do not trust... why people, even when a law enforcement officer comes out, starts talking, a lot of people just don't trust it, and even if it's true, even if it's true, even if the law enforcement officers did a great job, i believe that in this particular case with the murder of iryna farion , the law enforcement officers did a great job, uh, well, i believe that in this case they didn't it seems that they did nothing there. but simply this mistrust, it, unfortunately, still, still does, does the result that we have today, when people, people think that it is not the right person, well here, relatively speaking, we have to wait, i think still time for some evidence in order to be final

something to talk about, right, but still, still, be that as it may, we have an official suspect as of now. we have an equally huge number of questions for him, we saw in the courtroom, the way the suspect behaved, and probably the main thing is that the national police, their representatives in principle, say that they consider this murder solved, and, and it resonates very seriously, and even with the interim results of the survey we are conducting today, let's listen to the deputy head of the national police force. chief of the criminal police andrii nibitov, he explained on the air of our esteemed colleagues from radio liberty why he believes that the murder has been solved, despite the fact that the weapon has not yet been found. it wasn't very difficult, yes, to follow a person who, in certain clothes

, entered the forest and somewhere in 100 hectares, i don't remember the name, well, the name of this forestry, got lost somewhere, but nevertheless... she went out somewhere and to she came out of the forest somewhere, for this operational-pictorial search, they worked 24/7 for six days. they found this person, found unmasked, we found this person, which was first developed without masking. we managed to do it, and that's why this one is criminal, i think. well, in any case, i think that the law enforcement officers will have to give answers to other questions, whether she was involved. russia before this crime, well, we saw the information, the law enforcement officers confirmed it, that the actual suspect was a participant or communicated with various kinds of neo-nazis, neo-nazis

who allegedly, who allegedly publish this information, communicate, including with ukrainians, in social networks, i.e. this is the first thing that should also be... talked about, or russia is involved, by the way, were there people here who might have helped, i.e. fellow students, this is also, i think, an answer to these questions is needed, and in general, i think that more evidence is still needed for some time present to our public, so that people can understand whether it is true or not. no, is this evidence really, are they exhaustive, or is it possible that there are some additional ones, the case is resonant, the case is, well, probably one of the most important from the point of view of the unity of our country, from the point of view of peace in our

country, because this case resonates here, if russia is really involved in this, then no matter what anyone says, but as they say... this is almost in the apple of the apple, almost in the apple of the apple , as far as society resonated to the extent that society began to discuss it, to the extent that society... again demonstrated that some are for, some are against, everyone began to discuss this, and therefore it is really a matter of honor, i think, for our law enforcement system to bring it to an end , bring to light, demonstrate all the evidence so that no one has doubts, because if there are doubts, these seeds of mistrust will be sown with... it will be almost impossible to do anything after this, the seeds of mistrust will not be sown by themselves, in fact,

the russian federation is directly trying to them in every way or to sow indirectly, and what am i talking about, if you follow the activities of all racist publics after the death of farion, then they all in one voice began to remind her of the conflict with the third assault unit with... the ukrainian military, among which, and here they emphasize that these are russian-speakers, excuse me already, and actually, once again throwing in the thesis that the ukrainian military, dear ukrainians, can be dangerous for you, ask ms. farion what she thinks about this, about the same goals i think they can pursue, esp. swaying with burning cars, which we talked about with mr. prytula, in particular with many other

incidents in which the ukrainian military appears as a potentially dangerous social unit. stay away from them, and then on you will not arrive. this is generally the mantra that they gave birth to on february 22, 2024, drive them out of your cities, and then there will be no more in your cities. to fly, thus they constantly and still try to distance ukrainian society from the institution that enjoys the most trust in our, in our ukrainian world now. the army is still the institution that enjoys direct trust, and if it were not there with all the other, let's say, positions that work, which... our people, but the army still remains and will remain in the first place, russia

is certainly not satisfied with this, therefore any shake-up of the situation in this direction is just as beneficial for them, but, but, but this is for one part of society, and for another part of society, another russian narrative is thrown in, which is now spreading according to all possible information errors, it refers to the fact that, look, ukrainian-speakers or those people who... for the ukrainian language, they are almost some fascists there, obsessed that these are people who do not have the right to indicate something to someone there, that again this same thesis "fortress lviv" is such an absolutely racist narrative, when the status of lviv is completely devalued or humiliated, it is demonstrated that lviv is some supposedly crazy city that constantly demands something ukrainian there, but the rest of ukraine does not want this ukrainian, but... . there is a crazy galicia or a crazy west of ukraine that constantly

demands something from someone, and this is what, by the way, was promoted all these days after the murder of farion, including in social networks, a huge number of bots, a huge number hatred, which was poured out in the comments specifically towards the residents of our country, well, relatively speaking, from the west of our country, and they were allegedly associated there with farion's position that... that everyone there is like a fariot, although from the other side, if let's be honest, if we speak more softly, and what's wrong, if we say, what 's wrong with farion, farion yes, well, in fact, we could disagree with certain situations that she comments on or discuss about it, but in essence, well, excuse me, if we talk about the essence, and not about a possible one there an emotional message, so about the essence of it. in principle, if you look there, the absolute majority of what farion said,

well, i don’t know, i think, there in neighboring poland, that’s how they talk about polish, in neighboring hungary, that’s how they talk about hungarian, in neighboring romania, yes they talk about romanian, i mean countries that are similar to us, we shouldn't focus on countries that are nothing like us, well, when someone compares ukraine there. and switzerland, for example, well, the russian one, again, is absolutely a narrative, v switzerland has four languages, or somewhere else there are two languages ​​or three languages, and stop comparing countries that... are in no way connected to ukraine, because there are, there are unitary states, there are federal states, there are states that are simply artificially were created as milestones in history, because they were created in order to divide the political map, in the same way as in africa, for example, the political map was divided, that is, ukraine is ukraine, and ukraine should be compared to those

countries that are similar in structure and political. by some vision, yes, for history, here are our neighbors, no matter what, they are similar to us in terms of historical realities, so of course we must understand that it is they who are the element of comparison for ukraine, than, for example, there is a conditional switzerland, yes, that is why all these russian narratives , which are now very much and very successfully throwing themselves into the ukrainian space, we must er... somehow work to at least isolate ourselves from this, because russian, russian propaganda, well, we say it every time, it is every day more efficiently and works more effectively if we will, will , will pander to her, if we believe her,

if we believe any russian narratives, and you know the last thing i want to say: actually, let's remember the fall of 2023 , when it's all it started, in my opinion, many colleagues forgive me, but in my opinion, the issue of farion in november-december of 2023 was extraordinary, i would say that it was negatively promoted, including by the ukrainian media, but i think that... well, in fact, there was no reason to promote such a huge tragedy was promoted, as if, if she said something conditionally wrong, well, there are different people and there are different opinions that she said something wrong, why promote the thesis, moreover, from the point of view that will conditionally divide ukraine,

there are ukrainian telegram channels of various kind of, they're just... day and night, i remember those weeks in november of last year , day and night they were promoting, extracting every interview, every word, every sentence, farion, why did you do it, you you have a mind, i want to ask, you wanted to share ukrainian society, did you want hype, someone just wanted hype, someone wanted to make money on it, someone wanted to increase subscribers on it, that's how it works, but we're at war, well, that's not normal. we are at war, people don't understand that we have russia as an enemy, which will use your actions against our country, yes, that's how it works, well, we 're not in the united states of america, now, where the election campaign is going on, yes, here said that one should compare oneself with those who are closer, agree, absolutely agree,

on the one hand, we are talking about information openness, cleanliness and... hygiene, on the other hand, today we are talking about a crazy emotional heat, which, in particular, the audience also pecks at, and a lot of people use it, it applies to social networks, okay the telegram you know there, for example, as well as ukrainian television in the form in which it exists today, the youtube format of ukrainian television and many others, well... in fact, manifestations of the media as such, without removing any responsibility from the ukrainian media for the fact that how certain points are covered, on the other hand, i want to defend myself, we, despite the martial law, despite the fact that we are in principle under conditions of censorship, try to continue to raise painful

issues, perhaps the discussion is not always. neat, but we really, we really, who are responsible journalists, try to act according to the principle, according to which surely doctors should act, do no harm, it is very important not to cause harm, these are responsible journalists, and here are those who want to appear to be journalists, i i mean various kinds, for example telegram channels, it was they, in my opinion, who then made an extraordinary effort to... spread this hate, there was no room for discussion, there was just a solid, a solid no, actually there there was a general replacement of concepts and paraphrasing. that in this way we actually started from within the country in the fall of last year to try

to divide people according to various characteristics, but if we talk about the second person, who probably, according to the version of the investigation, could have been planned in general. uh, well, i don't know, an attempt could be planned, but we are talking about a people's deputy nowadays, yes, and this, uh, well, let's put it this way, a person who does not at all resonate with the visions of the world of iryna farion, yes, this is just such somewhere so opposite, i would say, quite a camp, in which i was at your opinion, was there any idea at all, if they do prove that this is the russian federation, what was the idea of ​​talking about two polar... in the context of their possible destruction, this is the traditional logic of both the fsb and the foreign intelligence of the russian federation , this logic

is always to hit two absolutely opposite polarities, on absolutely two opposite pain points of society, first you will stir up, relatively speaking, the sycophants, then you will support them. had its own audience, but buzhansky’s too, unfortunately, which is not what, but it had its own audience, and in order to demonstrate that in ukraine there are political murders, chaos, terror, their issues are not even buzhansky’s, the issue in that they need someone to demonstrate that ukraine, once again, is a fail state, that is, a state that did not happen, that ukraine is a state in which law enforcement agencies are active, not active. the law that is there, how come, they want to say that this is the regime, they want to say that we have somalis here, they also want to prove socially

and informationally that ukraine is supposedly somalia-2, it is theirs now the rhetoric, if you go to their resources, they very often began to use the rhetoric that ukraine is like somalia, where everything happens , but not in a legal way. and they promote this rhetoric, even through the mouths and minds of the ukrainians themselves, as i understand it. if i'm wrong now, i'm terribly sorry, but in the last few days, the network has been actively discussing the interview of andriy baumeister, a medusa to a russian liberal publication. baumeister is called a political philosopher and... one of the main public intellectuals of ukraine, and many, at least in my bubble, i am terribly sorry, yes, maybe it is not

representative, but it really is, so carefully asking, who is baumeister? well, well, to be honest, i haven't even heard of this person before, that is, who is it, well, i'm sorry, i am personally completely uninterested in his views. no, no, they were not interested, and here i want to make corrections, let it be my personal point of view, people with ukrainian passports, i would say so, that is, i would not, that is, we must understand that these are people who left from ukraine, who are sitting somewhere over the hill, as they say, and who pour dirt on our country, our values, and our army very often. well, they lie, they promote russian narratives, so you know, to call such people ukrainian politicians or ukrainian philosophers, or ukrainians

well, i don’t know, political scientists, well, ukrainian ones, i think, are those who act, who work, who create in ukraine, and those people who, i’m sorry, escaped from ukraine and tell something from there, and they are absolutely racist narratives that are... thin ice, on which they try to walk us simply so that it is clear where to lead this one, and we are led by the handle by the already mentioned baumeister, but they can't do anything on their own. and they fall under this summer, this ukrainian philosopher baumeister is sure that during the war his country turned into a totalitarian state, this is the headline on medusa,

medusa once again a liberal publication. russian is supposedly for all good, against all bad, and generally for against russia’s war and against putin and so on, but ukraine is quite a totalitarian state, they think that it can be put in the headline, okay, it’s us, by the way, about the irresponsibility of the ukrainian media before this, i already spoke at the end of 2022 about the fact that if we started this war as freedom against tyranny, democracy against a totalitarian regime, then today two totalitarians are fighting. two totalitarian systems: a small totalitarian and a large totalitarian, only a small totalitarian system with elements of chaos, zaporizhia youth mixed with makhnovism, unpredictable, chaotic, and the other vertical, stupid, rigid, bureaucratic, reminiscent of the soviet union, but on a different level - he says baumeister, and if we, well, let's say , again, ukrainian media that are not included in the common pool of a single format.

marathon, we still allow ourselves, where appropriate, critical remarks about decisions of our power, our parliament, our government, our president and his office, if we can still openly talk about the fact that we do not fully understand why some things in our country are decided by people who, for example, were not elected by anyone, then this again about the discussion, this is our relationship with ours. no matter what it is, good or bad, would we have any comments on it now or not, but to compare, to compare ukraine today with the totalitarian russian federation, with some, but this is a crazy manipulation, crazy manipulation, of course, well, i don't know, to be honest, it is unlikely that this material, this material, is intended for ukrainians.

designed for those who help ukraine, and for this i am actually very worried, and this is what i am taking care of now, there is some public, excuse me, supposedly intellectual in ukraine, one of the biggest, who is not well known in ukraine, huh, but he speaks on behalf of ukrainian intellectuals, things that are very, very, very inconsistent with reality, and it appears to be some kind of... such a more or less healthy position, that's how we have it, but i believe that in part, this is a narrative, including for ukraine, and why not, well, medusa is not read, medusa is not read, but all the ukrainian media wrote about it, again, well, again, the same situation, because we, we, we we are monitoring, but this

provocation was most likely done because everyone. everyone knew that, for example, the same arestovych, who immediately began to promote this person, yes, this bowmaster, and a whole series of resources of such rather, well, ruskomirovs, who began to promote this, would join right away, i why, i do not rule out that russia did not go anywhere and did not postpone its own thoughts and dreams about creating pro... russian forces in ukraine anyway, well , it would actually be naive to think that russia has stopped waging its hybrid war, including in the political direction. russia perfectly understands that sooner or later there will be elections in ukraine. russia perfectly sees and understands that in ukraine there is still a certain share of voters, people who, well, if there, are not directly pro-russian, not for putin, but

, let's say, for the big... these people did not go anywhere, they all the same, there are ruskomir vestiges in our country, well and so on and the like, which are now, for example, protected by the soviets and russians, there are not so many of them anymore, but they still exist, and why not create, or at least not form , such an informational and political pool in ukraine, ah. .. it will work out, well, we, we, i say, we are democratic, we, as when, let’s suppose, let’s suppose, the war ends, will there be some stage of reduction in the intensity of the war, we will have elections, and they will invest their money to pro-russian forces in ukraine, they will invest money in new faces, only russian faces in ukraine, let's not forget about it, and here are

all these narratives of... sovych and his ilk, well, it's not easy.