and i am glad to be with you again in the same ethereal context, i wanted to start with you on the subject of the great exchange of prisoners. i would like to remind the audience that russia and belarus on the one hand, the united states, germany, slovenia and great britain, on the other, carried out a prisoner exchange, and this is an extremely large-scale event that is already growing with a certain analysis, but just now in the minds of ukrainians also meets... some fairly understandable criticism, we will talk about it a little later, to you, mr. vitaly, the main question: why this exchange right now to putin, and why him, on the other hand side, the united states represented by joseph biden, and the democrats? well, i think that putin has had one goal for quite some time now, quite important, and that is to release krasikov, the man who is known for his assassination right in berlin in tergan. parkushvili, a georgian citizen

of chechen origin, this is a well-known story with a political murder, and this particular story, of course, always interested putin, because we already know that krasikov is a personal acquaintance for him, this is a person who carried out some special confidential assignments , maybe not only putin, maybe all of this so-called ozer cooperative, and besides this murder of khongashvili, krasikov is known to be involved ... in all kinds of russian businessmen in the north-west , in the north-west region of russia, and this is a man , who served the federal security of the russian federation, and before that in the kgb, that is, this is just a person from the same corporation with putin, close to putin personally, they even believe that he was once his bodyguard in the st. petersburg period of putin's activity, when putin was the vice-mayor of st. petersburg, and of course, in this situation, putin. it was very important to show

that people who carry out such orders of his cannot remain in prison, especially since in the case of kraysyuk we were talking about life imprisonment, and by the way, i want to remind you that putin personally came to the airport to meet these people who were released, he hugged the handsome man and said to him: great, and by and large, after booth, krasikov was the second such russian prisoner among western prisoners and putin. was very important to make sure that he was released, but there was such a problem that krasikov was in germany, germany does not often go to such an exchange, so putin needed the united states to be interested in releasing its citizens, so that these citizens of the united states were a significant target of the american administration that the american administration cooperated with the german government to release the krasiks. this was such an important

moment, you know that the russians began to simply take american citizens hostage, here like our colleague from the wall street journal, evena hershkovich, who was released in this exchange, others were known hostages for american citizenship, a former marine, our colleague from radio liberty, and here now let's look at... now it was very important for joseph biden to release these people precisely during his presidency, because the biggest nightmare of any american president is what happened to jimmy carter. in the last period of his tenure, jimmy carter negotiated with iran for release american diplomats who were then held hostage by the american, by the iranian leadership in tehran, and he did practically all the work on this exchange, his administration. succeeded, but then in

november, as always happens in the united states, jimmy carter lost the election to ronald reagan, and the iranians released these people on ronald reagan's inauguration day. and biden, of course, wanted to prevent such a situation in any case. first, that it should happen during his term of office. secondly, so that it does not become so, you know he did all the work and then trump won the election. suddenly, on the day of trump's inauguration, his new celebration takes place, putin releases american citizens, and trump is told, you see, i became the president and everything began to be resolved, and even more, even if it happened after november, when trump spoke, even my inauguration is not there , russia is already afraid of us, that is, it should have happened by november, this is a very important moment, this is an american moment. now the moment of german

interest: germany was very reluctant to go on the release of krasikawa, we see it, it caused it. even an outpouring of emotions in the german media means that the federal chancellor needed to, that he is not just releasing american citizens in exchange for bribes, but that he is releasing german citizens, and putin just went to take germans hostage, even lukashenka before this adventures , you know that lukashenko literally in a few weeks. before that, there was a death sentence for a german citizen, in general no one understands what this person really did, and lukashenko pardoned this person after the death sentence, this is not even a life sentence for you, i apologize, and of course it was important for germany that it had

a humanitarian context, that is, the head of the german ministry of foreign affairs burbeck, you know, she is a representative of the party greens, she is... moral, and olaf scholz and antony blinkin and all the others, and convinced that no, people's lives are more important than such things, let krasikov sit there in russia, but the main thing is that we release the american citizens, and your citizens, german citizens, but one more important humanitarian component was added, these are russian political prisoners, and what's more, in principle, the west believed... that if you replace, say, krasikov with navalny, then germany will have none at all special questions, because you know that angela merkel personally took care of navalny's fate, after his poisoning, he was treated in charita, and

if this happened, you see, they would release krasikov and along with it american citizens of navalny, several more russians poles then it would not have caused any indignation of public opinion, and they believed that putin was even ready to go for it, there is information that roman abramovich talked to him about it, putin seemed to be interested in it, but just a few days before this exchange, navalny died, that is, it was such a cynical game that we had already agreed on the exchange, in principle, decided who and what, but then navalny died, and the exchange was postponed for... several months, because then they again began to think about who could be included in this exchange so that this exchange has a humanitarian character, they included these russian lawbreakers, by the way, i don't understand why they didn't include the belarusian ones, if there was a person

pardoned by lukashenko, the nobel laureate ales biletsky, let's say, he is in prison, who received the nobel prize together with our oleksandra mitveichu. organization, well, there are many political prisoners in belarus after the 20th year, maybe someone at least should have been included as well, well, this is a rhetorical question, this is just me thinking about myself, well, then all these interests have converged, because germany was interested in the fact that there was such a humanitarian moment as the liberation from russian prisons, if navalny is no longer there, well, several iconic russian... political prisoners who spoke out against putin's regime and against the war, you know that yashin simply left according to the military article, and there are a few more people who left because they condemned russia's war against ukraine, okaro morza is facing a more serious charge, he is charged with treason, he is 25 years old, it seems

there is something like that, but there are other people, they went on about what just fakes about the army and such other, such other, oleg orlov. the head of the board of the now banned memorial, so in this regard it was also important for the germans to demonstrate that they were releasing from russian prisons people who protested against putin's war of aggression against ukraine, well, this is also an important moment and several people from fbk immediately from this navalny's fund, well, there is no navalny, but we at least give his associates from russian regions the opportunity to gain freedom, well, if this approach is logical, it is clear that... what happened? mr. vitaly, if i understand you correctly, there is a possibility that alexei navalny, well, let's say, could have died in connection with this exchange, assuming, of course, i believe that he died in connection with this exchange that they simply laughed at the event. ugh.

as for them, they have already understood that krasikov will be released, please, so-and-so, that krasikov will be released, but at the same time they will not give navalny's symbol, but at the same time. they will not give navalny, of course, this was their main idea, that in principle the parameters of the exchange understand, this exchange will take place at all because biden is interested in it, the americans need to be released. but without navalny, well , it was such a cynical, very cruel game of theirs, on the other hand, i always told you and i will tell you now that i do not understand the logic of people at all, i will never be convinced by this, who are going to be imprisoned, and then, realizing that they will be put in prison, and then they will have to pay for them, let's say... well, navalny returned

to russia from germany, we remember this after the poisoning, what he was counting on, karamurzu they also tried to triple it several times, in the end they gave him 25 years, the situation with yashen is also strange, because he says that he wanted to return to russia in general. and to continue his activities there, but he will not return, because he understands that then there will be no exchanges, he would like people to be released in the future, i never understood this and i do not understand, they say that this is courage, but it seems to me that this is simply a misunderstanding of the situation, that these people invented some kind of country that does not exist and will not exist during their lifetime, and they just ee fall into the trap of the russian regime, ugh, i don't know, have you read? watched once upon a time there was exactly such a situation in the 20s, i

think, in the years of our century with the famous russian politician boris savinko, who was a famous terrorist of the time of the empire, and then, when the soviet union had already appeared and the whites lost the elections, he was aser, that is a socialist, a revolutionary, he... created a fairly influential opposition organization, and he , being a terrorist, the leader of a combat unit , was ready for armed struggle, just like you you understand, he knew what a weapon was because, that's why the organization, mr. vitaly, we lost the sound with you, we still don't hear, unfortunately, but now, now yes, yes, the whole story with savink was on the line, uh, in soviet times, people who watched soviet films, they remember how savinkov was lured to soviet

russia, lured to soviet russia illegally, people who were nkvd agents announced that they, oppositionists and associates of savinkov, he came, thought , that he will be a great success, and in the end there was a demonstration process over tsavinkov, to whom he told. that he agrees with the soviet authorities, and then he seems to have committed suicide in the building of the ogpu, well, we understand that he was simply killed, and you understand when, yes, mr. vitaly, i again ask you to fix the microphone, or do something with sound, but for us and the audience, every word of yours is extremely important, so and so when... when there was such a situation with e. sarenkov, when i think of

salenkov, i think of navalny, of yavshin, of karomurza, i think , that this is approximately the same situation, talinkov absolutely did not understand russia, the russia that appeared, and he was sure that he understood, because, well, he lived in russia all his life, he was engaged in revolutionary activities there, he was the commissar of petrograd at the time. of the interim government, how could he think that the country in which he spent so much time has changed so much in literally 6-7 years, is it a different country at all, and putin's russia, it has been since 2014, and even more so after 2022- ugh, changed beyond recognition, it so often happens when the regime goes from authoritarian to totalitarian. and by the way sainka was already killed after the death of lemin, ugh, it was an important rubicon for the soviet

union, and for the capabilities of the nkvd forces of all of them, so i think that there is such a problem here that they do not really understand the country in which they live, they talk about some kind of political activity, then you have to go back to the prisons, set some kind of example, and that's all there is, you understand, that is, their influence on real russia is not really what is in... in the head, but in reality it is zero, and it turns out that when they return to russia, or they do not leave from russia before the threat of a court verdict, they are not only for themselves. shorten lives, they actually create opportunities for russia to hold them hostage, and then exchange real spies for them. you understand, when a person goes to prison because he does not even imagine that he can become a victim of such and such repressions, it is understandable, but the head of the orlov memorial, like him,

engaged in public activities that were, as it were, absolutely legal. here they suddenly found some article when he once wrote, you know, and imprisoned him for defamation of the army, it is difficult to predict very much, because the conditions of the game change every day, or our colleague from radio liberty, she just came there to her mother, she was leaving russia, and here and in kazan they say, oh, you have american citizenship, you are not registered, a fine for you, oh, but you should actually register as an agent, oh, ah... they saw that you were editing some book, and this is all month by month, that is, at first a person does not even think that passadzi is detained there , so you have to pay a fine and fly on, no, but this is a different situation, with on the other hand, of course, the question is, how is it right to come to russia at all, if you actually work for an organization that everyone hates, but that's another story, it's hard to predict to the end, especially when you're not in

the context, but when you live there and sincerely you think that your landing... will become some important element in the political process, then this again shows that you do not understand much about what is happening to you, this is a huge problem for all these people, and i noticed it a long time ago , to be honest, they are still moved, maybe they have always lived in such a quite and real world, because they do not know their population, that's when i heard their first press conference christina, that it is necessary to cancel... sanctions, so that ordinary russians do not feel bad. oh, you and i got to this issue, the ukrainians, of course, exploded, and pivovarov, a figure from khodorkovsky's orbit, in fact, and volodymyr karamorza, in principle, with one voice, all of them with one voice, began to talk about the fact that sanctions in the form in which they currently exist hit ordinary russians,

and the regime does not cause any specific damage there. this, this is an additional evidence of their lack of understanding that it was the russians who created this regime for the most part, and they still endow the great russian people with some, i don’t know, divine, simple righteousness and they do it for nothing, well, this is idiocy, well, imagine some anti-fascist in 403 or 44 who say, you know, these bombings of german cities to destroy... the german military industry, they 're killing ordinary germans who are actually very they now have a negative attitude towards hitler, it is obvious that it is necessary to fight, but with whom, with hitler, with goering, with goebbels, with keltenbrunner, and what do ordinary germans have to do with this, ordinary people are not supporters of this people-hating regime, and vice versa, when you do to them it's bad, you will only turn them

against you, dear allies, well, that's it... it's strange, really, although now we can say as much as we want that it hurts us too, that during the second world war , the historic centers of german cities died there, peaceful residents died, this is all a huge tragedy, but who started it, you can find out who voted for hitler, who was extremely enthusiastic about the start of the second world war and this idea of ​​expanding living space, who for many years after the second world war considered hitler to be... better the chancellor of germany of all times and peoples, not the english and the french and not, and not the americans, but the germans, well, this is a pretty good question, and here you understand, they all made up their own minds and navalny too, that they are political figures, that they can ever beat on some election that is not and may not be, and

that they should not say something that will turn against them re... most of what they consider to be their potential electorate, and therefore they should be the defenders of ordinary russians, here putin is bad , you are good, and there is nothing new in this, this mantra has been around since the 18th and 19th centuries, one must go to the people, work with the people, here we have such a criminal aristocracy, our people are good, but why did they report us to the police , we were planted, probably by people. ugh, what's new in russian history? and now yes it seems as if putin himself... himself walks around the houses of ukrainians somewhere in a beard, presses all the buttons himself, is behind the wheel of all the planes, as if it is not the russians who go to

the army with these contracts, putin is the only one, but the russians, in principle, are great, great, nothing happens to them, here's the number one question, why is that, ugh, why is this an amazing idea anyway? which arose in them, and why do they live with this idea, because they always think that they are political figures, but they are not political things, well, of course, you can imagine that in more or less cannibalistic times, yashad could have been elected a deputy in some district there, but that is also nothing, well, they elected you a deputy in the district, you are engaged in some kind of sewage and some other district affairs, street name plates. you don't affect the system, you only legitimize it, because the system always says: you see, we have such a democracy, we even have yashin, a critic of putin, a district deputy,

huh, and by the way, what does yashin do in his first interview he says, negotiations are needed, people are dying on both sides, a tragedy, that's clear, of course it may be unpleasant for ukrainians, but we will say it clearly. the ukrainians say that putin will have time to prepare, but they will also have time to prepare for a new war, well, this is not a russian, but a chinese method, let’s say, and it goes away, it’s strange, but there is another point here, khrystyna , i don't think that these people should be in jail because of that, they were put in jail because by and large they were defending our truth and. also, they opposed the war, you see, the difference from a political point of view, views, this is not yet a reason for what we thought, let them sit there for 25 years, because that can go a long way,

it is about the same as what the russians were counting on when they killed irina fario, that's a lot of people they don't support her, so they should be happy that she was killed, and her supporters will be in mourning and there will be division, and we said: listen, well, the problem is not what her views are? and our views killed a ukrainian citizen, a ukrainian politician, a person who believed in ukrainian statehood, and if in we had different views, so we discussed with her what this statehood should look like, it is not a question of political busts, so it is here, we may have different views with karamurza, yashin there pivovarov, but they were against the dictatorship, against the war, well i say again, yashina, we can disagree 3 thousand times, but he was put behind bars for criticizing the war. he was simply put in prison because he was against the war, we say a lot, but why don't the russians speak out against the war, here i spoke again, he was put in prison for a long time, and that's why

of course, the release of these people, if there is such an opportunity, is an absolutely normal humanitarian duty of the west, if there is an opportunity, i say again, but returning to the question of what putin received as a result of this exchange, on the one hand his murderer krasikov and. .. similar, and on the other hand, well , in fact, he got outside lobbyists for the lifting of sanctions from the russian federation, or the modification of these sanctions so that they again, i think, does not matter at all, i will tell you honestly, about , that there are many people who are representatives of the russian opposition, who they say that ordinary russians should lift sanctions against russia, they have been saying this since 2022, someone will say it more, less, you understand, this one will disappear, as it always happens in the information space, well, the first press conference, well thesis, well, we talked, then people disappear from the information field,

already appear among other russian oppositionists, i do not have at all, i do not think that it has any serious political significance, because if it is decided that sanctions should be lifted from russia, they will definitely be filmed not because they are talking about it russian oppositionist, but now there is no reason to believe that this will happen, so what do you understand? the problem of sanctions is not that, the problem of sanctions is that we have made a clear discovery over these 2.5 years that there are two economies in the world, the economy of the west, the economy of the global south, and by and large the sanctions, even the strongest sanctions of the west, are not can force someone to take some decisive actions, if this head of state can survive at the expense of the economy of the countries of the global rooster, this is great. danger on the future for everyone, because we have been saying since 2014 that if the west introduced sanctions against russia, sanctions from hell, the most

sanctions, then... putin would stop the war, but they do not introduce them, and the west said: oh, if such impose sanctions, putin can start a big war, it is better, then, to continue to work economically, so that he needs to have some interest, remember, yes, the north stream one, the north stream two, we will interest him in business, and here is the year 2022 it all didn't work, nobody nobody was not interested, a great war began. sanctions from hell appeared, limits even on prices for russian oil, europe got rid of russian gas in a few years and what, and nothing, well , russia has problems, but not those that force putin to stop the war, why, because china buys oil , oil is bought by india, other countries of the global south cooperate with russia, turkey, saudi arabia,

south africa. brazil, big economies, all of that. of course, the volume of western economies cannot be compared, but can the chinese one? yes, chinese is possible. ot. so it turns out that it just doesn't work anymore. and the west did not understand this, and we did not understand this, that here is this important argument that was always supposed to work, it did not work. there are countries that are under huge western sanctions. three. russia, iran, north korea. against this background. these huge sanctions, north korea has developed its nuclear program, has nuclear weapons, china is helping it survive, iran is close to creating an atomic bomb, north korea and iran are helping russia with weapons, two countries, which are under western sanctions, north korea even under un-approved sanctions, others may. to help the country

with weapons, the sanctions not only limit, but also untie the hands in a certain sense, it turns out, well, the problem is not even that, but the problem is that iran is under such serious sanctions, and president trump even once left of this nuclear agreement, so that iran would be under sanctions, so that its economy would not develop, and here is this iran, which remained under sanctions, firstly, close to nuclear bombs, and secondly, organized a massive attack against israel, well, it didn't end well because it was repelled, but it was a massive attack, and no one in iran is starving in the streets, right? yes, and no one dies of hunger in russia, and i will tell you that it is by and large a vicious circle, and this is much more important than what karamurza with yashin and pivavar says there, that the west fruitfully cooperates with china, fruitfully

cooperates with by india invests huge amounts of money in their economies, buys their products, the purchase of their products, stimulates them to buy new volumes of oil, gives them dollars, currency, they then buy oil and gas from russia, because they need all this in order to further sell products to the west, settles with russia in yuan and rupees , that is, they do not lose anything at all, but one way or another... with this money, they can provide themselves with a certain standard and social military-industrial complex, and this can continue ad infinitum, the chinese supply russia with parts, so to speak, parts, let's say, for military products, maybe he doesn’t supply the weapons themselves, let’s believe what sidzimpin tells president zelensky, but when you supply

two de... from which you can assemble weapons, it’s still the same as supplying weapons, and that’s it this confuses me much more, you understand, because the fact that the west will not cancel any sanctions against russia, i think you understand, i understand, i will tell you more, karamurza karamurza and yashin also understand, they are experienced people, they are all fine understand, they are not saying it for the event, but again, for this conditional russian electorate, which once they have, in their opinion... may appear, although i doubt it, but at the same time, this is what confuses me more, because i see no reason to believe , that for the russian economy , as a result of this vicious circle , there will not be any such times when they will really think, listen, we are approaching full justice.