read yourself. good evening, we are from ukraine. today in the verdict program with serhii rudenko. kursk breakthrough. russian propagandists report an alleged raid by ukrainian forces on the rear of the occupiers and fighting in the border areas. gursk region of the russian federation, which is actually happening on the other side of the russian border. good russians are free. russian dissidents released from kremlin prisons are calling on the world to distinguish between putin and russia and ease sanctions on ordinary russians. consequences of a large exchange of prisoners. premonition of a new war in the middle east. in response to... elimination of hamas leader iran

plans to attack israel with the help of allies on the axis of evil. can the idf strike back at iran's nuclear facilities? glory to ukraine, this program is a verdict. my name is serhiy ordenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. we talk for the next two hours. about ukraine, about the world, about the war and about our victory. let's talk about the raid on the kurdistan region, the defense forces and the people who are currently fighting for the independence of ukraine in the regions bordering ukraine, in particular kursk and bilhorod. let's touch on the topic missile program, which should be in ukraine. today, they spoke at the supreme commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine. that this missile program

needs to be developed and developed in order to use ukrainian missiles for strikes on russian territory. and of course, let's talk about how the russian federation is trying to use the telegram platform to spread its narratives and how ukrainians can fight against russian propaganda. during this broadcast , we will have five guests. part of our program, it will be politician and diplomat roman bezsmertny and general ihor romanenko, in the second part of our program, which will start in exactly one hour, we will have people's deputies of ukraine, viktoriya syumar, oleksandr mereshko and yaroslav yurchyshyn. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest watching a video of a new attempt by the russian occupying forces to attack the position of the 79th separate airborne assault unit.

of the tavry brigade in the kurakhiv direction. this russian offensive ended in another failure. four russian armored vehicles were destroyed, another one was hit, and an enemy tank was disabled. let's see, this is an enchanting video.

glory to the armed forces of ukraine and death to the russian occupiers. friends, we conduct polls throughout our broadcast. today we ask you if telegram is for you. the source of information means the telegram platform. yes, no, it's pretty simple on youtube, if you have any thoughts other than these two unequivocal answers, please leave them below this video in the comments. if you watch us in tv broadcasts, take your smartphone or phone with you and vote for the corresponding numbers. if you think that telegram is the best source of information for you and you use this platform 0800 211 381, not 0800. 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are

free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. we have our first guest on the phone, he is a politician, a diplomat. former ambassador of ukraine to belarus, people's deputy of several convocations, former deputy prime minister of ukraine roman bezsmertny. mr. roman, i congratulate you, thank you, that you are with us today good evening, mr. sergey. mr. roman, let's start our conversation with today's events in kursk oblast, neighboring ukraine, because the russians are reporting that they have sent suzhansky district to kursk oblast, it is next to... the district, and ukrainian troops, the ukrainian side, have apparently entered there has not yet confirmed, but the russians say that troops in the number of up to 300 people with the use of 11 tanks and more than 20 armored vehicles attacked russian

units precisely in the area of ​​the state border in kursk region. i know that kursk and sumy regions were quite active on this border. the derge often went there, the russians bombarded the ukrainian territory, the sumy region, today they attacked sumy, the city itself, with aerial bombs. so, taking into account what the russians write about, what information appears, including in telegram channels and videos, how the ukrainians capture russians, can we assume that in... the war, more and more transitions to territory of the russian federation, and this is probably the most unexpected result for putin and for his sopiak. well, mr. sergey, from the point of view of both tactics and military strategy, the introduction of war on the territory of the enemy, this

can be both a tactical tool and a strategic goal, from my point of view, a discussion that, remember, introduced a year ago. waging war only within the borders of ukraine, it has remained in the past and it is absolutely correct that it has remained in the past , because waging war on the territory of the enemy is another serious path and step towards victory, in relation to the status given to this operation, this can be explained the military, from my point of view, is the current informational silence. on the part of the political, military, and military-political leadership of ukraine, it is absolutely correct, because everything will depend on how events will develop, but i want to note once again that from the point of view of waging war on the territory of the enemy, this is a brilliant tactical

a step in the current conditions, both from the point of view of the situation at the front, and from the point of view of the international sounding of this topic, i already... say, this is a very important component in order to keep society in the appropriate moods, and society, which was aimed at the victory of ukraine in this war, which russia is waging against ukraine, and seizing territories, mocking the population and planning their hellish plans, therefore, from my point of view, the position of the ukrainian side, the position of the supreme... command and so on, it will be announced later, depending on, i say again, what the goal was and how far it was achieved. well, what the western partners will tell us can be assumed if weapons are used in these events

our western partners, but we saw last week that our western partners can conduct backdoor diplomacy. whether the back-and-forth negotiations with the russian federation, that is, russia's war against ukraine and russia's threats to the world, do not prevent the major players, the united states of america, and russia in particular, from negotiating directly. the big exchange that took place at the end of last week between the russian federation and our western partners, what do you think it shows, that the dialogue is still going on. by behind the scenes, there is simply no place for ukraine in this dialogue yet, or what they say about ukraine does not make it to the front pages of newspapers and into the public space? mr. sergey, well, you and i

have discussed more than once in conversations that the relations between china and the united states of america, between the united states and russia, due to the fact that even today... there are a number of global issues, which relate to issues of nuclear safety, space issues, development issues, including civil nuclear. in individual countries are global issues security, so the dialogue between these countries will always be conducted at this stage, now regarding what was agreed upon, well, we can only guess, let's say, what the ministers of foreign affairs, and the united states of america and russia, talked about, and such conversations are the last sometimes there were two. pay attention to how creative. describe the content, the likely content of these conversations, now the question of exchange, well,

this question has several components, several meanings, several contents, if you take the united states of america there, then it fits into the topic of the pre-election race, it is clear that moscow planned for this process to take place there no earlier than november 6, well... on the fourth or fifth, on the fifth of november the voting will take place, and on the sixth to conduct this process, but when joe biden left the election race, it is clear that this process was accelerated due to the fact that the significance was lost from the point of view of influence on the electoral position, now how much does it affect the situation related to the russian-ukrainian war, the status of ukraine, the influence of the situation. like berlin like london like and paris, adheres to a very clear position,

nothing about ukraine without ukraine, and to date there are no talks about ukraine, either at the initiative of washington or brussels or london. if it is said, then these things are voiced like the plans of, say, the kremlin, or the plans of the candidates during the election campaign. of the united states of america, or the views of individual analysts, british, french, german and so on, but from the point of view of the negotiation process, as a diplomatic process, absolutely no steps are taken in this regard, and this is absolutely correct position, now it is analyzing, let's say, the information space, can there be any closed dialogues that do not come to the surface, yes they can be, most likely they are... they are along the lines of intelligence, and such dialogues have always been conducted, they will always be , and it is obvious

that they do not reach the media, so they do not become the subject of discussion by a wide audience, but from the point of view of the frequency of these meetings that take place, in particular, between the heads of the cia and the foreign intelligence service of russia the federation or china, the united states of america, such dialogues definitely. are conducted, do they have a ukrainian component? there is definitely an exchange of information, an exchange of the situation, and this actually gives grounds for the fact that information periodically pops up, well, let's say, what is the thesis that the conversation between the united states defense minister austin and the russian defense minister took place, as a result of which the ukrainian side or the main intelligence department did not begin to conduct. in the liquidation of putin during the naval parade in st. petersburg,

you see, this is a clear fabrication, but someone is paying attention to it, because they believe that it is the result of, say, some dialogue there, although it is already clear today that this dialogue , which took place, had absolutely nothing to do with ukraine, and ukraine was not the subject of discussion, but the issues related to... nuclear security, renewal of action, today and so on were discussed, because the time for the activities of the bilateral commission is coming, and the commission is already in its third year, it is actually multilateral, which concerns compliance with the protocols of the non-proliferation treaty nuclear weapons, does not work, so all these things are more likely to be filled with information than effectively from the point of view of, let's say, the discussion of the problem or negotiations between russia and ukraine or the place in general. in this process of ukraine, i would be more calm here. mr. roman, you mentioned this

story with lloyd austin's conversation with his russian counterpart, with the minister of defense of russia, and this conversation took place on july 12, literally yesterday, the deputy minister of foreign affairs of russia ryabkov said that the ukrainians were apparently preparing an assassination attempt on putin under ... celebration of the day of the russian navy on july 28 in st. petersburg and this conversation between loydin and kiev between kiev. by washington, washington and moscow, what, what, they played on prejudice, that, they say, this attempt did not take place, because this, this, this triangle took place, the conversation in this triangle, you say that it is fiction, but whose fiction is this? well, of course, this is a russian fiction in order to additionally throw in

ukrainian narratives, including this topic, because instead of, say, analyzing other... painful topics and so on, society will be devoted to chatter around this matter, and pay attention to what level of officials are involved in this process, the level of the deputy minister of foreign affairs, well, in russia, as well as the minister of foreign affairs, and the whole they face it, they actually exist in most cases, like such information torpedoes that throw out certain messages, and the purpose of which is only one thing, that is... to make these messages thresh, to disassemble them, although in most cases they are completely unsupported on real events, well, as well as in this situation, which is connected with the attempt on the führer, understanding, let's say, the situation in which it happened, if it was planned, then it would have been done,

the system of intelligence relations has a completely different character than consent , let's say such things, especially... in a situation connected with not just an enemy, but an international criminal. mr. roman, is it possible to perceive as information torpedoes the russian oppositionists whom putin exchanged for murderers, killers, for his own spies, for people who conducted illegal activities there in the west, because judging by what was said after the release of lev yashin. volodymyr karamurza and andriy pivavarov, in principle, they obviously said what they would like to talk about with the world, or who is the first in the kremlin, because first of all, there is putin, or, let's say, some russian political elite, business elite , it is possible that there is

putin, and there is russia, that there are sanctions against putin, because he is... a dictator and the initiator of the war against ukraine, and there are ordinary russians, for which the former prisoners of the kremlin shift the accents, they do it consciously, or they sat for so long in the butchery, who do not quite understand what is happening in russian-ukrainian relations. well, there was another message , it was ugly in general, and it sounded like, you can make a claim to putin, but don't touch the country, don't touch the state, and what is this? well, actually, there are several possible answers to this, you can say what the classics said, where the ukrainian question arises, there ends the russian democrat, liberal, and we could limit ourselves to this, because

this is actually enough to analyze this situation, now the case with these three... putin's prisoners, and please note that today they do not even present claims to putin himself, that is , the impression is that the journalists who listened to them, they were just stunned, and i had to watch this long conference, to be honest, it takes a lot of effort, and i have the impression that we saw in front of us, if... like kara morzu, like yashina, but actually it is the impression that inside a completely different person lived in them. in fact, there are several diagnoses for it. first of all, these are absolutely clear manifestations of what is called the stockholm syndrome, when the victim takes on the problems of her

abuser, her terrorist who terrorizes her. second. these individuals clearly, clearly contain the consequences of the so-called havana syndrome, which was recently discovered, through which they try to influence people, including the special services of the fsb, and this complex of these two syndromes was actually just visible in words and actions , in gestures, in the behavior of these three people, moreover... i can emphasize that these are the factors of forgetfulness that are clearly manifested in the diagnosis of havana syndrome, which was already observed in many... yoh persons who were kept in prisons in russia, especially those who were persecuted for political beliefs, well, at least take

the same mykhailo khodorkovsky, with whom i once had the opportunity to communicate after his release from prison, that is, we can say that karamurza, piovarov and yashin were sent to prison, and from there came out something different, what is it different? this, from my point of view , is not only the result of being in the brothels, the word is very beautiful, you used it in this case, but also the processing of these people, ah, i don't know what, chemical drugs, psychological influence, whatever, but from my point of view, well, their behavior at this press - at this press conference, well, it looked completely inappropriate, i don't want to use more... strong words that could be more objective in the characterization of these persons. however, from my point of view, the actions that were taken by exchange, they were made absolutely

correct, because all these people, whoever and whatever they say, their führer system, with the führer's clique, putin's, they, they were sentenced, and how much was left for them is there, god knows, and at the same time a whole... number of people were saved from the same persecution, who remained with their willpower, with the defense of their democratic principles and so on, but what we see in the form of these russian political prisoners clearly indicates what we are dealing with the führer, with his clique, with the aggressor state and with an aggressive society, this is mostly an animal society, which... and thanks to the action of the information machine and processing through the information machine of society, it is recreated to kill, and this is what was written about in

a time classic of geopolitics, the black hole gives birth to this force of aggression, which is ready to kill, to trample, to mock democracy, common sense, and man. by the way, the head of the office of the president of ukraine, andriy germak , wrote on his twitter account that the russian opposition should seek the liberation of russia from the dictator putin, and not the lifting of western sanctions, as he writes, because the whole essence of putin's regime is the desire for genocide, the destruction of ukrainians as a nation, the seizure of territory, and sanctions are what restrain the regime's military machine and prevents him from developing a desire to kill people and children. sir? sir, in the current situation, should the ukrainian authorities talk about the future deputization and

de-racialization of the russian federation, because it is obvious that putin can be replaced by the same bilousov as the minister of defense, and they will say that he is such a moderate politician, or the same yashin will come to power, which is very difficult to believe, but the system. at least they will give birth to some new putin. can russia get out of the current war without denazification, without de-rasification and without deputization? well, in fact, the answer to this question has been formed, and only in exceptional cases these processes were not carried out by states that carried out an aggressive policy towards neighbors or many peoples. and that. that such processes as denazification, demilitarization, depotinization, deraschization, well, actually, this is what i will say now so that it is clear what i

mean, they should become a subject, including discussion during the tribunal, this is obvious, because a society with with the sand that putin's machine poured on him, getting out of... you brain, it will be impossible to talk to him without such a process, and the fact that the russian has been transformed into a creature, and not into a person, can be seen in many cases, in cases, when the opposition spoke, in cases which we have numerous examples of when wounded russian soldiers simply shoot themselves and so on, all this indicates that... that russian society is undergoing a terrible psychological treatment, this is exactly what

i talked about at the newberg trial. for almost a week, hermann goering, when he convinced that if someone needs to convince the society that it wants war, then the mass media is the tool for this, and putin's führel machine actually turned 140 million into living mass that is used in order to give birth to violence on planet earth, and all this has a very long history. if we set a goal and find out, as a result of whose actions the most brutal murders were carried out in any corner, on any continent, in any country, then we will definitely find there either a trace of the former kgb during the time of the soviet union, or the current fsb that is, it is a kind of infernal machine that operates in this black hole, and which

gives birth. hatred of man employs such misanthropic mechanisms of human destruction, and moreover, when we read social networks or the press or any russian information channels, well, the impression is that this is a psychologically sick society, and exceptions in this society, well, you have to meet very, very rarely. august 7th kamala garis expected sir? i will be formally approved as a presidential candidate from the democratic party. according to cnn, harris has chosen minnesota governor tim walz, 60, a national guard veteran, and a man with a military background, but in this story with kamala harris, as her running mate interesting details appeared in time magazine,

because... simon chuster, a correspondent of this american publication, wrote about the cool relations between the candidate for the presidency of the united states of america, kamala harris, and president zelensky, after their meeting on the sidelines of the munich security conference on february 22- th year, this is a few days before russia's invasion of ukraine, and then the vice president rejected the idea proposed by the president of ukraine. sanctions against moscow, i will quote what simon schuster wrote. zelensky called on the united states of america to impose pre-emptive sanctions against russia, arguing that this would force putin to reconsider his decision to invade. if an attack is not imminent , zelensky argued, then the united states of america should send weapons to ukraine, including air defense systems, fighter jets and heavy artillery, necessary to prevent russian forces from seizing

the country. well, there is also... the work of how kamala garis told zelensky, what do you have to say about what the russians have against you to attack, i understand that the president of ukraine was against this, well, that is, there were misunderstandings between kamala garis and volodymyr zelenskyi, during the great war, garis was never in kyiv, but she was at the peace summit in switzerland, these are the nuances, these misunderstandings that were still there for 2 and a half... years, how they are overcome in diplomacy, in ukrainian-russian, in ukrainian-american relations, considering that kamala garis has a great chance to become the president of the united states of america, but we see , that these are some nuances that we need to know about now it becomes known whether they can interfere, or can they interfere with the relations between ukraine and the united states of america in the future? mr.

sergey, well, answering this... question, first of all it should be noted that this is written by simon schuster, and his love for himself is so great that he sometimes subordinates what he writes to only one purpose, so that his popularity is related to him grew, and he very often does not take care of how these problems and these things correspond to the realities that happened, as for the conversation about... which if it is a conversation, then it really was, and this conversation, fortunately for us, unfortunately for shuster, did not have the content that he described, who told him this conversation, whether it was zelenskyi himself, or the president of ukraine or gomala garis, well told, only he can say this, but it was really about a high probability of an attack, but aris, for example, did not...