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this platform 0800 211 381 no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free vote at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote we have our first guest on the phone - this is a politician, diplomat, former ambassador of ukraine to belarus , people's deputy of several convocations, former deputy prime minister of ukraine roman bezsmertny. mr. roman, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, mr. sergey! mr. roman, let's start our conversation with today's events in the nearby do of ukraine, the kursk region, because the russians report that they sent the suzhansky district to the kursk region, it is next to the sumy district, and ukrainian troops apparently entered there, the ukrainian side has not yet confirmed, but the russians say that the troops in .. bones of up to 300 people with

the use of 11 tanks and more than 20 armored vehicles attacked russian units precisely in the area of ​​the state border in kursk region, i know that the russians were quite active on this border of kurtsk and sumy regions, the derge often went there, the russians bombarded the ukrainian territory, the sumy region, today they struck... we air-bombed the city of sumy itself, considering what the russians write about, what information appears, including in telegram channels and videos , as ukrainians capture russians, can we assume that the war is increasingly moving to the territory of the russian federation, and this is probably the most unexpected result for putin and his minions. well, mr. sergey, from

the point of view of both tactics and military strategy, the introduction of war on the territory of the enemy, it can be both a tactical tool and a strategic goal, from my point of view, the discussion that, remember, even a year ago, the war was conducted only within the borders of ukraine, it remained in the past, and it is absolutely correct that it remained in the past, that's right, because the introduction. war on the territory of the enemy is another serious way and a step towards victory in relation to the status given to this operation, this can be explained by the military. from my point of view, the current informational silence from the political and of the military and military-political leadership of ukraine, it is absolutely correct, because everything will depend on how it will develop.

events, but i want to note once again that from the point of view of waging war on the territory of the enemy , this is a brilliant tactical step in the current conditions, and from the point of view of the situation at the front, and from the point of view of the international sounding of this topic, i am not saying anymore, it is very an important component in order to keep the society in the appropriate mood, and a society that was aimed at... the power of ukraine in this the war that russia is waging against ukraine, seizing territory, abusing the population and planning its hellish plans, so from my point of view the position of the ukrainian side, the position of the high command and so on, it will be announced later, depending on what i will say again , what the goal was and to what extent it was achieved, well , what the western

partners will tell us, we can assume, if the weapons of our western partners are used in these events, but last week we saw that our western partners can conduct secret diplomacy or secret negotiations with the russian federation, that is, russia's war against ukraine and russia's threats to the world do not prevent the major players, the united states of america, and russia in particular, from negotiating directly. the great exchange that took place at the end of last week between the russian federation and our westerners. partners, in your opinion, what does he testify about, that the dialogue is still being conducted behind the scenes, it’s just that there is no place for ukraine in this dialogue yet, or that they talk about ukraine, does it not get on the front

pages of newspapers and in the public space? mr. sergey, you and i have discussed more than once in our conversations that relations between china and by the states of america, between the united states and russia, due to the fact that even today there are a number of global issues related to nuclear security, space issues, development issues, including civil nuclear in individual countries, are issues global security, so the dialogue between these countries will always be based on this stage, now... regarding what was agreed upon, well, you and i can only guess, let's say, what the ministers of foreign affairs, the united states of america and russia talked about, and there have been two such conversations recently. pay attention to how

they creatively describe the content, the likely content of these conversations. now the question of exchange, well, this question has several components, several meanings. several contents, if we take the united states of america there, then it fits into the theme of the election campaign, it is clear that moscow planned that this process would take place there earlier than november 6, well, on the fourth or fifth, on the fifth , the voting will take place, and on the sixth, to conduct this process, but when joe biden left the election race, it is clear that ... this process was accelerated due to the fact that the significance was lost from the point of view of influence on the electoral position, now to what extent it affects the situation related to the russian-ukrainian war, the status of ukraine, the influence on the situation washington, like berlin, like

london, like paris, maintains a very clear position, nothing about ukraine without ukraine, and... to date , there are no talks about ukraine at the initiative of washington or brussels or london, if this is said, then these things are voiced like the plans of, say, the kremlin, or the plans of the candidates during the election campaign in the united states america, or the views of individual analysts, british, french, german and so on, but from the point of view of the negotiation process as a diplomat. process in this regard , absolutely no steps are taken, and this is an absolutely correct position. now, this, analyzing, say, the information space, can there be any closed dialogues that do not come to the surface, yes they can be and

most likely they are on the line of intelligence, and such dialogues have always been conducted, they will always be and it is obvious that they do not reach the mass media. and therefore they do not become the subject of discussion by wide audiences, but from the point of view of the frequency of these meetings that take place, in particular between the heads of the cia and the foreign intelligence service of the russian federation or china, the united states of america, such dialogues are definitely are conducted, do they have a ukrainian component? there is definitely an exchange of information, an exchange of the situation, and this actually gives grounds that information periodically... pops up, well , let's say, what is the thesis that there was a conversation between the minister of defense of the united states of america austin and the minister of defense of russia, as a result of which the ukrainian side, or the main intelligence agency

did not begin to conduct an operation to eliminate putin during a parade in st. petersburg in naval forces. you see, this is an obvious fabrication, but...someone pays attention to it because they think that this is the result of, let's say, some dialogue there, although it is already clear today that this dialogue, absolutely, which took place, had nothing to do with ukraine, and ukraine was not the subject of discussion, but issues related to nuclear security, the renewal of dinyaz, and so on, because the time has come for the bilateral commission to operate, and the commission , which is actually multilateral, has not been working for the third year, which concerns compliance with the protocols of the treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons. therefore, all these things are filled, rather than everything is informational, rather than effective from the point of view of, let's say, the discussion of the problem, or the negotiations between russia and ukraine, or in general

the place of ukraine in this process, i would be more calm here. mr. roman, you mentioned this story with lloyd austin's conversation with his russian counterpart, with the russian minister of defense, and this conversation took place on july 12, literally yesterday, with the deputy foreign minister of russia. ryabkov said that it seems that the ukrainians were preparing an assassination attempt on putin during the celebration of the navy day of russia on july 28 in st. petersburg, and they say that this conversation between loydin, between kiev, between kyiv , washington, washington and moscow , what did they play on prejudice, that they say that this attempt did not take place, because this, this, this three... there was a conversation about this triangle, you say it is fiction, but whose fiction is it?

well, of course, this is a russian fiction in order to additionally throw this topic into ukrainian narratives, because instead of , say, analyzing other painful topics and so on, society will be devoted to chatter about this case, and pay attention to what level is included in this process... persons at the level of the deputy minister of foreign affairs, well, in russia, like the minister of foreign affairs, and all his colleagues, they actually, including, exist in the majority cases, such as information torpedoes that throw out certain messages, and the purpose of which is only one thing, which is to force these messages to be hammered, to analyze them, although in most cases they are absolutely not based on real events, well, as well as in this situation, which is .. connected with the attempt on the führer, understanding, let's say, the situation in which it

happened, if it was planned, then it would have been done, the system of intelligence relations has a completely different character than consent, let's say such things, especially in a situation related to not just an enemy, but a criminal international, mr. roman, can be perceived as informative. torpedoes of russian oppositionists, whom putin exchanged for murderers, killers for his own spies, for people who were engaged in illegal activities there in the west, because judging by what they said after the release lev yashin, volodymyr karamurza, and andriy pivavarov, in principle, they were obviously saying what... they would like to talk to the world about, or who should go to the kremlin first, because first of all, what is

putin, or, let's say, some russian political the elite, the business elite, it is possible that there is putin, and there is russia, that there are sanctions against putin, because he is a dictator and is the initiator of the war against ukraine, and there are ordinary russians, why are the former prisoners of the kremlin... they shift the accents, they do is it deliberate, or have they been sitting in the butchery for so long that they don't quite understand what is happening in russian-ukrainian relations, well, there was another message, in general it was ugly, and it sounded like, and you can present claims to putin there, but do not touch the country, do not touch the state, and what is this, well, actually there are several possible answers to this, you can... say what the classics said, where the ukrainian question arises,

the russian democrat, liberal ends there, and we could limit ourselves to that, because this is actually enough to analyze this situation, now the case with these three putin's prisoners, and please note that today they do not even present claims to putin himself, that is, that is the impression. that the journalists who listened to them, they were simply stunned, and i had to watch this long conference, to be honest, for this... you have to make a huge effort, and i have the impression that we saw before us, if, as if karamorza, like yashina, but in fact it seems that a completely different person lived inside them. in fact, there are several diagnoses for it, first of all, these are absolutely clear manifestations of the

so-called stokol syndrome, when the victim takes on the problems of... her abuser, her terrorist who terrorizes her. secondly, these individuals clearly, clearly contain the consequences of the so-called havana syndrome, which was recently discovered, through which they try to influence people, including the special services of the fsb, and this complex of these two syndromes was actually just visible in ... in words, in actions, in gestures, in the behavior of these three persons, and i can emphasize that these are the factors of forgetfulness that are clearly manifested in the diagnosis of the havana syndrome, which was already observed in many persons who were held in prisons in russia,

especially those who were persecuted for their political beliefs, well, at least take that... mykhailo himself khodorkovsky, with whom i once had a chance to communicate after his release from prison, that is, we can say that karamurza, pyovarov, and yashin were sent to prison, and something else came out of there, that this is different, this is from my point of view vision is not only a consequence of being in a prison, the word is very beautiful, you used in this case, and also the treatment of these people. people, i don't know what, chemical drugs, psychological influence, whatever, but from my point of view, well, their behavior at this press- at this press conference, well, it looked completely inappropriate, i don't want to use stronger words , which could be more objective in the characteristics of these persons, however, from

my point of view, the actions that were taken in exchange, they were taken absolutely. tno are correct, because all these people, whoever they are no matter what they say, their system is fuhrer, and by the clique, fuhrer, putin, they, they were sentenced, and god knows how long they remained there, and at the same time , a number of people were saved from the same persecutions, who remained from with their willpower, with the defense of their democratic principles and so on, but what we see in the form of... these russian political prisoners clearly indicates that we are dealing with the führer, with his clique, with the aggressor state and with aggressive society. this is in the majority is an animal society, which, thanks to the action of the information machine and processing

through the information machine of society, it is re-created to kill, and this is what the classics of geopolitics wrote about in their time, the black hole gives birth to this force, aggression, which is ready to kill , it's nice to trample on, mock democracy, common sense, human beings. by the way, the head of the office of the president of ukraine, andriy dermak, wrote on his twitter that the russian opposition should strive to liberate russia from the dictatorship. putin, and not the lifting of western sanctions, which he writes, because the whole essence of putin's regime is the desire for genocide, the destruction of ukrainians as a nation, the seizure of territory, and sanctions are what restrain the regime's military machine and prevent it from developing in the desire to kill people and children. mr. roman, as in the current situation,

should the ukrainian authorities talk about the future deputinization and de-rasification of the russian federation, because it is obvious that putin can be replaced by the same defense minister bilousov, and they will say that he is like that a moderate politician, or the same yashin will come to the authorities, it is very difficult to believe in this, but the system will give birth to someone, some new putin, can russia get out of the current war without denazification, without de-rasification and without... deputization? well, in fact, the answer to this question has been formed, and only in exceptional cases these processes did not go through the state. who carried out an aggressive policy in relation to neighbors or many peoples, and the fact that such processes as denazification, demilitarization,

deputization, derasization, well, actually, this is what i will say now so that it is clear that i i mean, they should become a subject, including discussion during the tribunal, this is obvious, because society... with the sand that putin's machine poured on him, taking out his brain, it will be impossible to talk to him without such a process , ah, the fact that the russian is transformed into a creature, not a person, is visible in many cases, in cases when the opposition spoke, in cases that we have numerous examples of, when wounded... russian fighters simply shoot themselves and so on, all this shows that the society of russia goes through terrible psychological processing, this

is exactly what hermann goering talked about for almost a week at the neuber trial, when he convinced that if someone needs to convince society that it wants war, then the means are the tools for this. mass information, and putin's fuhrel machine actually turned 140 million into living mass, which is used in order to give birth to violence on planet earth, and all this has a very long history, if you look at the goal and find out whose actions resulted in the most brutal murders in any. corner on any continent, in any country, then we will definitely find there either a trace of the former kgb during the times of the soviet union, or

the current fsb. that is, it is a kind of infernal machine that operates in this black hole, and which generates hatred for man, uses such anti-human mechanisms, the destruction of man, and, moreover, when we read social networks or. the press or any russian information channels, well, the impression is that this is a psychologically sick society, and there are exceptions in this society, well, to meet happens very, very rarely. on august 7, kamala garis is expected, mr. roman, to be formally confirmed as the democratic presidential candidate, according to cnn garis has chosen as her vice presidential candidate, gov. minnesotan tim walz, he is 60 years old, he once served in the national guard, and well, a man with a military background, but in this story with kamala harris

, interesting details appeared in time magazine, because simon schuster, a correspondent of this american publication, wrote about cool relations between the candidate in president of the united states of america, kamala harris. and president zelensky after their meeting on the sidelines of the munich security conference in february 22, a few days before the russian invasion of ukraine, and then the vice president rejected the idea of ​​preventive sanctions against moscow proposed by the president of ukraine, i will quote what simon schuster wrote: zelensky called the united states of america will impose pre-emptive sanctions against russia, claiming that it is... putin's desire to reconsider his decision to invade. if attack is actually imminent, zelensky argued, then the united states of america should send ukraine the weapons, including

air defense systems, fighter jets and heavy artillery, needed to prevent russian forces from taking over the country. well, there are also details of how kamala garis told zelensky what you have to say about the fact that the russians are about to attack you, i understand that... the president of ukraine was against it, so there were misunderstandings between kamala garis and volodymyr zelensky during the great war, haris was never in kyiv, but she was at the peace summit in switzerland. these are the nuances, these misunderstandings that were still there for 2 1/2 years, how they are overcome in diplomacy, in ukrainian-russian, in ukrainian-american relations, considering that kamala harris has a great chance to become... the president of the united states of the united states of america, but we see that these nuances, which we now know about, can interfere, or they can

interfere. relations between ukraine and the united states of america in the future? mr. serhiu, well answering this question, first of all it should be noted that this is written by simon schuster, and his love for himself is so great that he sometimes subordinates what he writes to only one purpose, so that his popularity, relation to him grows, and he very often does not care how much these problems are said. corresponds to the realities that happened, as for the conversation in question, then it really happened, and this conversation, fortunately for us, unfortunately for schuster, did not have the content that he described, who told him this conversation, or zelensky himself, and the president of ukraine, or kamala haris, well , she told me, only he can say that, but

it was really about... a high probability of an attack, but, for example, haris did not tell the president of ukraine, because he already knew about it from the reports that were received to him from and including after meetings with the heads of the central intelligence agency. now, as for the relationship between haris and zelenskyi, it is known that for four years haris represented the united states at the munich conferences. and every time the president of ukraine and kamala garis met, because their dialogue was constantly ongoing, because, as is known, despite the fact that the main issues of foreign policy were accepted and accepted by president biden, but the vice president, including kamala harris, she has powers related to international relations and of foreign policy, so she was always present at the dialogues held

about... ukraine, so she is very well informed about the development of events in ukraine, secondly, her dialogues were constant with the president of ukraine zelenskyi. now one more thing, and certainly the current election campaign, it provokes many to write, and that one said this, and that one said that, all this should be compensated by the system of relations that is being built. between states, if we take the relations and what is said between, conditionally speaking, and what is conditionally, realistically, between candidate trump and candidate kamala harris, then approximately the same relationship is voiced in international politics, when one president talks about another president, but simon schuster said it, and we all paid him dearly

we understand, the price for him is what he is worth, and it is informing society about how he imagines it, what he knows about it, and so on, what mutual relations between kamala garis and president zelensky are determined by the constitution of one state and the other state, of course, there may be some individual disputes, there are emotions and so on, but believe me, from the point of view of that experience. that i have, they are in a distant drawer, and in most cases between washington and kyiv, whatever the relationship between them might be, forgive me poroshenko and trump, or zelenskyi and trump, or zelenskyi and biden, they are doomed to cooperate, just like zelenskyi and garis, or zelenskyi and trump, because today the russian-ukrainian war is completely shaping the national one. the

agenda of the united states of america in most cases, hence the cooperation between them was, is and will be. and as for, say, certain information messages, they should be treated, including, as information. you and i have already analyzed some theses once simon schuster before the release of his book about mr. zelensky. and i can tell you that in this case, as you remember, we turned out to be right, because... the words were just a goal to promote my book , nothing more, nothing less. well, yes, we remember, there are stories about how it all happened in the presidential bunker, he was not there in the bunker later, well, that is , there were a lot of such components in this book, well, nevertheless, this the book, by the way, is quite active, it is read and sold all over the world and not only in

united states of america. is another statement.