front society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion on the bad day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on. verdict with serhii rudenko, from tuesday to friday from 20 to 22. greetings, friends, live on the espresso tv channel, the second part of the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, and in this part we will talk. about this kursk scandal for putin. the armed forces of ukraine are successfully developing an offensive operation on the territory of russia. what will the desacralization of the kremlin dictator lead to? an attempt on the northern flow. american journalists accuse the ukrainian side of sabotage. who benefits from the development of anti-ukrainian hysteria in?

unpacking kyrylenka, the head of the anti-monopoly committee who previously ruled donetsk region, is accused of illegal enrichment? how officials manage to acquire fortunes during the war. that's all we'll talk about in the next 45 minutes. i remind you that we work not only live on the tv channel, but also on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us there live. subscribe to our pages, take part in our survey. today we are asking you about whether the ukrainian orthodox church can become independent from the russian orthodox church, because we are all waiting for a decision, and president zelenskyi has already announced that there will be spiritual independence of ukraine from russia, we hope that it will be so, that is why we are asking you, can the uoc become independent from the russian orthodox church? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have a separate opinion, please write it in the comments. if you're watching us on

tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote on 0800 211 381, if you think that the ukrainian orthodox church can become independent from the russian orthodox church, no, 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. today we have a traditional journalism club and i want to introduce my colleagues, this is olga len, a political observer, the host of ispres. the author and presenter of the war information chronicles program. olga, hello. congratulations. and bohdan butkevich, journalist, radio host, author and host of two youtube channels, centernet and showbiz. bohdan, i congratulate you, thank you for joining conversations we have some problems with communication. i hope that, uh, uh, that we will have contact with bohdan. please check this for... sound engineers, maybe there

are some problems on the line, well, as colleagues, we are asking our tv viewers whether the ukrainian orthodox church can become independent from the russian orthodox church, let's go through this question in the format of a blitz poll and ask you and hear your thoughts on what you think, whether the opc can become independent from the russian orthodox church, olga, the question, well, they had it for that, well, i don't know. six years old, yes, with at the moment of receiving tomos, and somehow it hasn’t been possible until now, so i don’t know, i think it’s just somehow time to admit that this is a systemic, systemic organization that is, well , subordinate to another country, and that’s it, and i understand that it can be so that the ukrainian orthodox church will have no other option than to become independent from the russian orthodox church, or at least to be included. to

the ocu, bohdan, you can hear us, well, i hope you join in, i hear, i see, everything is fine, fine, fine, everything is much better already, because we had some, some problems with the sound at the entrance, what do you think , or can the ops become independent from the russian orthodox church, well, how is it possible, how can it become independent from the body, for example, the right hand, well, that is, it is impossible, in principle, it is exactly the same story here, you understand, well... i would, by the way , pointed out that indeed, if there are people left in the uoc who, for example, well, let's say this, until now, i don't know for what reason they are still there, frankly speaking, that is, before there could be an argument that they did not understand there something, something else, now actually, well, to be honest, i don't know, well, let's imagine that there are such people, well yesterday, it seems, epiphanius made a wonderful appeal to the actual head of this structure,

to be honest, i just don't understand what else can be said, that is, everyone understands everything perfectly, all the masks have been removed a long time ago, and therefore it seems to me that if these people want to continue to be in the orthodox church, which orthodox church, they should simply unite with the ocu. actually, the stupidity of muscovites, i don’t even want to say bad words, so as not to spoil your monetization on youtube and so that the help does not come to you, but okay, look, the stupidity of muscovites is that they could, for example, take some very dangerous step, well , imagine, and they take, for example, the moscow roc church and give their tomos, it would be absolutely illegitimate, they had no right to give it, but well, just imagine, they take and give tomos their type. or uoc, well, imagine such a step. this would be real, not that it would be dangerous, but well, it would be a situation in which, well, i would say, for some morons there would be some choice, but moscow is so stupid that it does nothing can come up with, except for what she is doing now, therefore, except for delaying time, therefore

, i am sure that, of course, no uoc will exist in this form, the one who wants to continue to be a priest, the one if he is fed up with boron and cleaning will go to pc. well, whoever wants to be a part of the russian orthodox church, well , he will continue to be one, i have no doubt that somewhere at home, in the apartment of some crazy moron, they will gather, there, i don’t know, they will tell that they are a catacomb church , as the first christian, i have no doubt that this, but i will repeat myself, i am sure that i will repeat myself, thank god, you know that our enemy is very cruel, merciless, cynical, but fortunately, he does not have any wisdom or strategic thinking, and this is very good, so we need them just... ban and forget as terrible, let's hope that next week the verkhovna rada of ukraine will vote in the second reading of the draft law, which has been lying around for a long time, and this is basically the political will of the current government, it is clear that no matter how much president zelensky says, that we will now vote for spiritual independence or not

we will declare it from russia, but this spiritual independence could have been declared a long time ago and then nodded in the direction of the parliament and said that the bad parliament does not do this, well, this is... very strange, given the fact that ruslan stefanchuk is an associate of zelenskyi, a servant people is the parliamentary majority, well , who can complain, if the peephole in the mirror is still zelensky, that is, he looks at stefanchuk, and sees himself there, well, roughly, yes, colleagues, let's move on to the main topic, apparently, of the last 11 days, this offensive on kurshchyna of the armed forces of ukraine, a lot comments first. this special operation, or operation, military operation of ukraine. at first , ukraine did not comment in any way , mainly the rashists commented, their propaganda channels and z-channels in telegram very actively covered this event, but ukraine has already

completely legitimized this entire story in terms of information, can we assume that this operation began ... a completely different story with putin, with putin in the world context, in the context of how he is perceived, how russia is perceived, maybe for some it was the discovery that the boots of ukrainian soldiers can walk on the territory of the russian federation, and apparently putin himself did not know that this could be so, but this is the desire to show that we are stronger here and we are so formidable. and we will give it to everyone now, and god forbid, someone enters our territory, or bites off these territories that we have already occupied, well , i mean the russians, that this story is already over, that there is nothing left to mold this propaganda out of nothing , when a foreign army enters your country, and

there is nothing to say and nothing to do, but you just have to to admit that the myth of this omnipotence. the russians and their army were simply destroyed by olga, well, it doesn’t happen all at once, of course, that ’s what i would say, another step for the decentralization of the russian government and putin and russia as such, but it is obvious that this is a far cry from at that moment that we can say, yes, everything happened, no, it did not happen, because in order for it to happen, the process must be long, er... what was formed even there in the cities of the world elite there and in general there some there various international organizations about what russia is has some special status, it was formed not in one day, well, accordingly , it will not disappear in one day, for this

, this operation must be longer and definitely successful, and well , efforts must be made for this, that is, this... no, not some kind of thing that happened, and besides, to say that after that putin's power there will collapse, no, it won't collapse, well it won't fall into... it didn't fall after prigozhin and after that it directly will not fall in one moment, it undermines, of course, his personal power, it reduces its possibilities, and this leads us, perhaps most likely, to some form of a coup d'état in russia, but such, you know, a palace coup, i do not absolutely do not believe that it will be some kind of uprising of the masses of the people there, because if you look, well, there are the latest polls, well , as far as... we can generally assume that there may be some polls in russia, but it was conducted

on august 9, 11 by the public opinion fund, it was issued literally on the 15th, that is, about , and what do you think, after all that happened, only 25% of russians there said that yes, they began to behave worse there, they believe that somehow the authorities are doing something wrong in russian, 25%, what can i say, it's... nothing in the grand scheme of things, that is, it's not very good at the same time, one must understand that, for example, one in five russians are generally interested in the war and everything that is happening, that is , four of them were indifferent to it, and remain indifferent, that is, what is the basis of the russian government in general, this firstly, to total absolute learned helplessness, this we have seen. if you look the inclusion of all those made by ukrainian tv channels, judges sitting in the basement,

say, well, apparently, putin does not know what is happening, that the local authorities have abandoned us, well , you understand, but at the same time, they are simply lying to our eyes, exactly, you know, the most despicable thing was when they were told, and you knew, that ukraine was being shelled from your territory there, the war was going against ukraine, you invaded ukraine, they, well, i don't know. i can't hear well there, or something else like that, that we didn't know anything there, well, well , of course, it's all complete nonsense, but we have to to understand that this passivity of the population, in principle, allows the russian government to hold on long enough, well, for a long time, and accordingly , in order to break it, the process must be longer, and i would say the invasion is deeper, so that’s how i have them impression, thank you, thank you olga, bohdan. well, against the background of what is happening in kurshchyna, we see how, after all, our western partners are talking about

the fact that, well, what did you actually expect, this is how the development of the event should have been, but our western partners are in no hurry to put an end to it in history of putin's russia, and to help us put this point more actively, because after all, they probably hope that in... in which in some format putin will leave power or withdraw troops from the territory of the ukrainian state, there is still oppositionists were brought to the west, biden meets with volodymyr karamburza and his family, and here you see, there are good russians, why ukrainians and ukraine have enough strength and opportunities to... begin the end of putin's russia already on the territory of russia federation, ours

western partners do not. well, it seems to me that it is a little more complicated here, well, the easiest thing now is to publish another filipica on the subject of a weak west there, which lacks eggs and everything else, but everything is a little more complicated, i would say, you understand, well, that is, on the one hand, yes, definitely not eggs in what sense, because well, in a certain sense they can even be understood, you know, people decided that they would fight more. you know, complete conflicts after two world wars and a completely destroyed europe in the second world war they simply do not want. well it is very unpleasant for us, but on the other hand , imagine the third generation of people there, which lives without great warriors, and when there go to war only some, you know , small ones determined by place and desire, and in fact only those who want to go to leave her, well, that's ok. well, but now friend... for a moment we have to understand one more thing, well , of course there is the fear

of a certain nuclear confrontation, plus don't forget that russia has always invested very, i would say, effectively in creating the image of such a scarecrow, and himself putin does this all the time, but i will tell you that there is a third point, which is actually also very specific in my opinion, look, they actually, how do they think that, well, first of all , yes, look, let's just understand for itself one important thing that is western. after the second world war and the first world war, civilization worked out such a simple story for itself: why do we constantly shout de-escalation fu-fu-fu, what kind of crap is this and so on, but you understand, here they are twice, the first world war in general, how is it... lard researchers, no one really wanted a war, but it happened, and why, because no one wanted to stop this escalation, and everything ended , it is clear how the second world war ended, they say, well, we tried, like , no, well, we tried to de-escalate incorrectly , but in fact it is still necessary to de-escalate so that there is no big bini, that is, you understand, well , from their point of view they may be right, of course, it is another matter that if they also perceive russia as a great enemy then, here we

are approaching the most likely unpleasant history, and we are talking primarily about the americans, although about the same europeans. primarily the germans, who for 50 years lived with the russians according to the principle of vandel durhandel, that is, let us trade, and therefore no one will want to fight, this was the policy, starting from around the end of the 60s of the last century, and the americans , they have a slightly different phobia, they, well, how can i say, they also believe that, like, this is how they won the cold war, no direct clashes with the soviet union, only some peripheral stories, or stories where it is possible there, let's say, because of some there, well, let's say. pads to act, yes, then it will be ok, and then it will give a result, they are basically repeating the same story now, but they have one huge fear, which, unfortunately, russia constantly plays on, plays very well, and this is not a nuclear war, even i will tell you, but another thing is that russia, okay, russia

is disintegrating, and in its place appears russia is falling apart, putin is dying, moscow is losing power, and that's it russia appears... 25 bantustans, each of them is headed by some kadyrov and each has a nuclear warhead, and what should we do with them? well, you just understood their thinking, they think like that, and i will tell you that until we, as ukraine, offer the west the concept of reorganization and a certain sense of control of this space, where the place of moscow in a certain sense will be taken by kyiv, that is, kyiv will not an imperial center, and a center that will simply lend a helping hand to every people who wants to do something there, every... people who wants to self-determine and so on, to promise this people that they will not be left alone in this changing world and so on, then there is a chance that the same americans will really begin to seriously expect that, yes, let's destroy russia, but one more the worst factor for us in this whole story is, of course, the confrontation between the americans and china, and it is well understood by everyone that as

soon as the russian central government begins to weaken, then a large part of russia, if not physically... at least from the point of view influences, financially, in any other way, will take china, and this is a black nightmare for the americans, because they understand very well that china will basically lose this war with the americans, and they have no chance of winning a confrontation with the americans, but they appear when china gets access uncontrolled access to russian resources, when they gain access, god forbid, to russian nuclear weapons and so on, this will definitely be a nightmare for the americans, and therefore... i am just very afraid that if no one there loves russia, believe me, you know, the ones who say there oh, they want to save russia, but no one wants to save it, with everyone, but they just calculate the risks, and on the other hand , they think that what if, why get involved in a fight and waste your strength, if you can use it anyway add, roughly speaking, not only that, but also try to drag it somehow in the process, well, putin will die one day and not

allow russia to become a mere limiter of china as a niaprichnik, do you understand? well, it seems to me that this is the story of this whole story, and i'm sorry that i'm like this, but you just know just to say that oh, the stupid west is just afraid of russia, no, it's not just about that, you see, and until we offer our vision of what to do with all of this, nothing will happen, instead of just shouting: "let's cancel the russians, let's go, no, that's great, but they don't understand why we need it, you explain to us why, well, sorry, set battru, that's how politics is done, friends, yes, and..." and this is how it is done, this is how statements are made, now let's talk about the statement of the belarusian dictator lukashenka, because he is on against the background of what is happening in kurshchyna, has already made several statements during the week that we, they say, will defend ourselves from the ukrainians, ukrainian drones are flying on the territory of belarus, although the belarusian gayun monitoring

group refuted all these statements, which monitor the movement of belarusian and russian troops , they said that on august 9, when this statement was made that they shot down ukrainian drones in the sky of belarus, that this is not true, then khrenintsy, sorry, this is the name of the minister of defense of belarus, the same minister of defense, who on the eve of the great invasion convinced oleksii ryeznikov that there would be no march of russian troops from belarus to the territory of ukraine, khrenin says that we have drawn tanks, anti-aircraft guns here to the border with ukraine, there... iskanders and we will to defend themselves, although someone is threatening them there, but the belarusian dictator took the floor and said that he is calling on russia and ukraine. to sit down at the negotiating table to end the war and threatened the west with retaliatory strikes in the event of a military threat. let's hear what said lukashenko. we will respond promptly and

adequately. if they want it not to happen, let's sit down at the negotiating table and end this fight. neither the ukrainian people, nor the russians, nor the belarusians need it. "they need her, i can't provide those facts, they are completely closed, where they speak openly, high-ranking people, literally, let them beat each other, ukrainians, russians, let them all die in this cauldron, well, that's what he says lukashenko, of course, is, as they say, chasing the devil, yes, yes, in slang, if you say, olga, that’s for what is lukashenka doing now, he does not want to support putin, he does not want to give his tanks there or what he has left there

for putin and his troops, he imitates this activity, that i am ready to serve there and make another front for ukraine, the northern , that is, what is his behavior in general, what is the logic of his behavior, well, it is interesting. will watch this entire interview in general, because look, well, he gives it to one of the main presenters of the first russia 1, er, state russian channel, state duma deputy yevhen popov, and here it is interesting that clearly, popov came to make and somehow force him to make some other statements, it seemed to me, at least from this tone and from the way his... face was under this, during these, er, these statements of lukashenka, that he is somehow waiting for a little bit of other words, so it seems that these are not even so much

lukashenko's words as lukashenko's broadcast of some certain position, it seems to me, chinese, because now china has a very big influence on lukashenko in general, and therefore , by the way, he can allow yourself to have all the conversations and some such more independent politics. ago that it is obvious that the russians expected belarus to withdraw its forces to the border, to divert the ukrainian forces to this, that is , to take some kind of steps, well, lukashenko, i would say, did not take these steps, and in this way we can, rather, analyze this, and why is china's position like this, and this is already a little different question, you know, and it is more, maybe even more interesting, and this somehow shows that. that maybe china no longer considers it a good idea to continue hostilities, because somehow, from its point of view, putin is suffering unacceptable losses,

those who, in principle, do not add any positives to, let's say, his allies, but perhaps, rather, this whole story should be viewed in this way. thank you, olga, bohdana, what do you think about the current situation? it is still important for lukashenka to sit in his chair and move on to the next term, or after all, and thanks to russia as well, or after all to flirt with china, because china is, in principle, carrying out such a chineseization of europe, that is, there is several leaders of states in europe who work with china actively, including orban and fitso. and lukashenko, and these are those states that communicate very actively with beijing, and beijing also counts on these

relations and on the fact that these states will help china expand, carry out expansion to europe? well, i would say so, china would very much like to carry out the chineseization of europe, but so far nothing has come of it, this time, not only that, china is now standing on a very... dangerous border, when the europeans have directly warned that any- which further serious support of russia will lead to europe starting to introduce tariffs against chinese goods, first of all, for example against batteries, electric cars, that is, something that is very critical for china, in fact, that is why the chinese are now trying with every fiber of their soul to show that they do not support russia at all, although this is not the case, of course, but what about the leaders who are supported in europe, then you yourself said correctly, orban is certainly a serious reinforcement considering. the fact that it is the poorest country in the european union, well , as for mr. vučić, well, we ourselves have seen his statements regarding the fact that serbia chooses the eu, serbia chooses to join the eu and so on, so here

such a story, er, but about. for belarusians , the story here is very simple, in my opinion, look, lukashenko is a scumbag, a cynical creature who has been in power for 30 years, longer than putin, longer than anyone else, and he really understands perfectly well what it is all about, he understands very well that as soon as putin is forced to stop in ukraine, belarus will be next, because we understand very well that putin's regime, oh well, putin will fight to the death, it doesn't matter with whom, as soon as he stops, this whole ... the bubble that he blew up now will collapse, so he will have to constantly look for enemies, grow territories, tell someone to his morons, why they are living badly again and so on, so belarus is the easiest target, precisely because if you paid attention, indeed lukashenko, well, he has been flirting with china for a very long time, in fact, since the beginning of the 2010s, but now, well, you remember, for the first time in history , belarusian-chinese military exercises took place in belarus recently, and that's not all ,

exactly under... he drove this one there troops from the ukrainian border and so on, that is, it seems to me that lukashenko perfectly understands what this is all about, and he is trying not to fall under putin completely, his main goal - he has two simple goals: first, to survive putin both physically and politically and transfer power to his son, and the second point is to make sure that putin does not drag him into the war again, that is, he is ready to give him everything that is in belarus, but he does not want to fight physically, because he understands that it will the point of no return, not only that, the horseradish knows how he will react there. from poland or someone else is already here, that's why all these statements of his are basically, well, i think that when he talked about negotiations, he was really happy, he really wants this story to end, and here are all his scarecrows that we will transfer the belarusian troops there under the border, when in fact he did not transfer anything in particular, well, he is showing putin that i am definitely loyal, but i will not fight, so i think that this is how he will act in the future, because he is not an idiot, first of all military warehouses in belarus

empty it is not at all a fact that his army will fight normally against the ukrainians, thirdly, please excuse me, well, i just want to imagine the clash of people who never once in their lives did not fight at all, but did not have , in principle, any -what kind of combat situation with any brigade of the armed forces of ukraine, i think the result will be very fun, and accordingly i think that lukashenko will continue to lead the next one, because the way he is doing now and in the future, and i repeat, his main task - survive putin, he is wonderful. understands to survive him, he must not allow himself to be drawn into this war under any circumstances, well, he will continue to do so, negotiate, maybe he will try to negotiate with the west again, if there is an opportunity, and he will say, and in chinese, he will promise that i will negotiate with the west i'll take your dime and i can become a bridgehead to europe, you 're wondering, aren't you, that there should be a line going to poland, that's right, belarus is a reliable partner, you're right there with russia, well, that is, look, this old mustachioed bastard knows very well, like in this

game and will continue to play, so i'm not saying that there is no threat there, but i would not overestimate it, we will follow the events in belarus, because during the last week i have been quite actively reading all the messages coming from minsk, and i have such different feelings and sensations about the fact that what they write, and even more so after what happened on february 24, 2022, when, in principle, the belarusian dictator became a fellow student of the war. russia against ukraine, and the only question is when the armed forces of ukraine there will give a decent response to the actions of the belarusian dictator, and that is the question only a matter of time, it seems to me that if they escalate the conflict, the army of belarus will definitely not be able to withstand the offensive of the armed forces of ukraine, and something similar will happen on the territory of belarus, similar to what happened and what we

are witnessing. on the territory of the kursk region, well, in general, lukashenko is the last, well , this is the second release of his political prisoners there, that is, literally today, yes, he released 30 regular political prisoners there, who were convicted for various protests, before that, a month ago he was still producing there, it seems 18, well, that is... clearly he wants to build some kind of relationship with the west and his relationship with the world, and well, they are a little different from the kind of relationship that putin is trying to build, that is, he has some kind of such, moreover, they have now reduced the activity at the border with these attempts to transfer unknown migrants to poland, which is also in principle of some kind, and we will monitor what happens.