the whole story with the kursk region, the deployment of the armed forces of ukraine on the territory of this region, and now the decision to ban the russian orthodox church in ukraine, that they simply put a cross on, well at least in the near future, possible even hypothetical negotiations of advisers or third assistants in qatar or elsewhere in another country, of course. now in this situation, this, so to speak, perspective is remote from any negotiations, although, so to speak, the situation on the battlefield continues to remain at a dead end, and so our offensive in kurshchyna simply leveled our chances to a certain extent and does not allow putin to speak from a position of strength, in those conditions when russian troops are slowly... still advancing

in donbas, but here i think that this is the pause taken by the authorities in to the person of the president and the leadership of the verkhovna rada and the servants of the people, in er, i mean, in support of this church law, it was largely still connected with the fact that it was expected and obviously er and our leadership and our western partners with whom we should, so to speak, coordinate our steps, and which are an important aspect of the negotiation process, so i think that until recently there was hope that russia would abandon this tone and letter of the ultimatums, the last of which putin announced about the withdrawal of ukrainian troops from four regions and so on, and only after when it became clear that russia is not going to... make

any compromises, russia continues to try to speak from a position of strength, ukraine allowed itself, and it was obviously allowed by our partners to do it, too, to hurt russia, that is, by entering the kursk region , having adopted this law on religious organizations associated with the aggressor country, ukraine, for its part, raised the stakes and, so to speak, put forward its demands quite radically and categorically, under these conditions, the possibility of negotiations did not disappear, but these will no longer be negotiations in the wake of putin's ultimatums, it is obvious that moscow will have to reconsider its positions, whether it will be putin or someone else, if there is a change of power there, it is... already, so to

speak, a question technical, it's already clear that there will probably be negotiations someday, but they will no longer be under the dictates of moscow. thank you, mr. maksym, for the conversation, it was maksym rozumny, political scientist, doctor of political sciences. friends, eh, we continue to work live on the espresso tv channel. let's look at the interim results of our survey. today we ask you about whether the russian orthodox church will stop its activities in ukraine after the adoption. of the law of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, so what are our interim results of the poll on television 47% yes, 53% no. well, in the meantime, i want to remind you that until august 24, espresso is preparing a special project bright people in dark times, interesting stories about heroic people, interviews with viktor yushchenko, svyatoslav shevchuk, serhii plukhie and much more. and already at 10 p.m. the documentary film 10 years of war on independence day. on espresso, from 8 am to

midnight, be close to espresso.

congratulations, friends, the second part of the verdict program is live on the espresso tv channel. my name is serhiy rudenko, and for the next 45 minutes we will talk about the following. a difficult spiritual choice. the uoc mp should break up. and organizational ties with the russian orthodox church, or disappear? will the kyiv metropolitanate dare to leave 350 years of dependence on moscow? war does not prevent stealing. law enforcement officers expose corruption

in ministries and departments almost every day. why has zelensky still not fulfilled his promise to equate corruption with treason. effective control. ukrainian military command posts are being created in the border regions of russia. what does this mean and how will ukraine administer these territories? friends, we are working live and throughout our broadcast we are conducting surveys, today we are asking you about whether the roc will stop its activities in ukraine after the adoption of the law, well, we mean the law that was adopted today by the verkhovna rada of ukraine. everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, if you have a separate opinion, please write it in the comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote on 0800 211 381, if you believe that

after the adoption of the law of the supreme verkhovna rada, which reads as follows, regarding the activities of religious organizations in ukraine, it will be terminated activity in... roc 0821381 no 0800 211382 all calls to these numbers are free vote at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio - this is volodymyr vyatrovych, people's deputy of ukraine from european solidarity, member of the parliamentary committee on humanitarian and information policy. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you. thank you for being with us today. good evening. straw bobrovska, people's deputy of ukraine from the vote, member of the parliamentary committee with of national security, defense and intelligence, deputy head, head of the permanent delegation of the verkhovna rada to the nato parliamentary assembly. mrs. solomiya, i congratulate you, thank you for joining, good evening,

since we are asking our tv viewers and viewers, mr. volodymyr and mrs. solomiya, whether they will stop their activities in ukraine. roc, the activities of the roc in ukraine will cease after the adoption of the law, i will ask you in the blitz poll format what you think about this, whether this law will stop the activities of the branch of the roc in ukraine. mrs. sholomi? i think so volodymyr would probably be more correct, he is from the governing committee, but also my answer blitz, unfortunately, no, this is only the beginning, and it can stop only for those. parishes or parishes, which are very directly documented , are related, more precisely, directly to the pre-russian era. thank you, ms. solemiya, mr. volodymyr, i have a slightly different answer: the russian orthodox church will cease its activities, because a separate article of the law clearly prohibits

the activities of the russian orthodox church of ukraine. as for other organizations that affiliated with it, the so-called uoc-mp, then for that it will be necessary to really conduct an examination, for that... a court decision will be needed, all the necessary mechanisms for this religious organization to either break ties with moscow or stop its existence is in the law, but we live in ukraine, we perfectly understand that the implementation of the law is possible under the condition of public pressure, observation of journalists, so we are vigilant together, we did everything to make it happen, there are all possibilities for this, but we are not relaxing , well, but in to this situation that is currently taking place in ukraine, where... full-scale war, there is an enemy church that works under the banner of the uoc mp, and we understand that it is part of a branch of the russian orthodox church, although they said in the spring of 22 that they have nothing to do with the russian orthodox church, is it necessary

in the conditions of war, mrs. solomia, this transition period is very long, nine months in order to find out, in order to do everything correctly. at a time when there is a threat to national security and defense, well look, obviously i would say no, it is not necessary, and we, the representatives of western ukraine, have eaten our teeth on this a long time ago. i represent the rivne region, which in fact has always been one of the most conflicted regions in religious, among religious organizations, you know very well, in fact, that especially the north of the region, this belt of the pole region, it is actually filled with the russian church, unfortunately, the transitions were very difficult and they really fell to a minimum, unfortunately, precisely in the rivne region, for example, yes, when we are talking at least about western ukraine, as it everything happened, so obviously i... wanted to say no, because i grew up following the examples of vasyl chervanuy, one of the heads

of our regional administrations, who was killed by the russian church itself before kirill's arrival, but since we have a democratic society and the search for a compromise in fact for us there is a priority, and this compromise was found and is so acceptable to all parties who voted for or who received, but finally he allowed it all into the hall, then... unfortunately, we have to agree with this, and volodya was here absolutely right, ours will be the most difficult history, this issue will be the implementation of this law, not even in time there will be history, the issue of implementation, how courts will make decisions, how these or other violations, these or other connections will be considered, and so on and so forth, because in addition to the western we have eastern ukraine, southern ukraine, and northern ukraine, which is not going to move. well, such independence from the kremlin, and unfortunately, this

humanitarian direction gave us a crack somewhere and went into regression, i must admit this, because often at the front, often it is the east and the south, and i am very sorry that we are falling apart, starting with the language, which ukrainian is heard less and less on the street, and ending again with music and even those concerts that in kyiv can and have the right to be held in russian, i am not talking about the releases printing of ukrainian-language books. there and so on and so on, it seems to me that we are entering a very difficult, such a turbulent period, where we have to withstand either regression or progress in the protection of the humanitarian direction? president zelenskyi, who announced just a few days ago passing a decision on, as he said, on spiritual independence, today he thanked the verkhovna rada of ukraine, which passed the law banning the activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, it was a government bill that was supported. in the second reading with 265 votes, let's listen to what zelensky said. the law regarding

our spiritual independence has been passed, this is what we talked about with the members of the council of churches and religious organizations, and in a few days i will also talk with the representatives of the ecumenical patriarch bartholomew. we will continue to strengthen ukraine, our... society, i expect documents from the parliament. mr. volodymyr, your colleague, oleksandr zinchenko, a historian and publicist, he said that finally a coalition of national unity was formed, because the slogan army is the language of faith, now this is the slogan of volodymyr zelenskyi, but zelenskyi did not mention that the representatives of your faction, in particular mykola knyazhytskyi and... your deputies from european solidarity, back in the 22nd year, proposed to make a corresponding

decision, why did it take so long, why did we see this delay of this final decision, even in the government implementation, i mean the law and the adoption of the decision in the parliament, stefanchuk did not introduce this bill, there was a very long period between the first and second, second reading, what was the problem? well, first of all, it seems to me that sasha zinchenko, despite the fact that he is a historian, he showed excessive optimism when he said that some kind of coalition army is the language of faith has already formed, i commented on this by the way as follows, that nothing will stop zelensky, who decided to lead the idea whose time has come, in fact, and answering the previous questions, i am not so sorry for those nine months that will require additional ones that will require the implementation of this law, i am truly sorry. that this bill was not adopted immediately, as soon as the first bills on this topic appeared in the spring of 22,

there were all opportunities for this, just then, volodymyr zelenskyi's vote was probably lacking. volodymyr zelenskyi, unfortunately, stood aloof from these processes for a long time, as did the absolute majority of representatives the servants of the people party, with some exceptions, which were very actively involved in this process, but the majority, unfortunately, stood on the sidelines and did not take any position, there was a small... part, in fact, there were those who took a clear pro-russian position, most of those who took a pro-ukrainian position, but the largest part was the part that did not have any position, and they were waiting for president zelenskyi to finally... show some position, but this is exactly the case when it is better late than never, unfortunately, it only happened here are a few weeks ago, and we can see how much it immediately changed the situation in the parliament, to the point that today, in fact, the adoption took place with the tacit consent of the opzh, who did not even put for confirmation, taking into account any of their more than a thousand amendments, did not even try

to somehow disrupt this whole meeting, so zelensky's role here is that he started this process. really big, but i'm sorry that so much time had to be spent, and in fact, i think we succeeded precisely because we were able to appeal and convince the majority of ukrainian society, as sociology has shown, more than 80% of ukrainians supported the ban on the russian orthodox church, i think that this became the decisive factor, the decisive driver of influence on volodymyr zelenskyi, who decided that it was worth supporting... , taking into account the changes that have taken place in public consciousness. i am sorry that the parliament sometimes lags behind, slows down, instead of somehow shaping public sentiments, does not keep up with them, but it is better that way than to contradict those public sentiments, that is why i am in in any case, i believe that an important historical event took place today, with which i congratulate everyone. as for the vote itself, analysts

of the movement honestly analyzed the list of people's deputies who voted against the law on the ban on activity. the roc in ukraine, or those who abstained, here, therefore, here you see, this infographic was made by our colleagues, honestly, the opposition platform for life, 17 votes against, restoration of ukraine - seven against and one abstained, servant of the people, four against and three abstained, non-partisan, one vote against, we see, in principle, a clear trend, when there are factions that... different groups of oligarchs who did not vote or abstained from voting for this draft law, it absolutely arises, this infographic does not have those who did not vote, there are

actually a little more of them, well, they haven't voted much there yet more servants of the people who simply... took out the cards while in the hall, did not vote, accordingly they are not in this infographic, yes, yes, thank you for the clarification, mr. volodymyr, ms. solomi, but considering this, this and such a position in on the fundamental issue, these people's deputies of ukraine, whether can they now be called people's deputies of ukraine, isn't it time to ask questions about the existence or stay in the verkhovna rada of people who were elected on the lists of the same party, the opposition platform for life. which is already officially banned in ukraine, but deputies still pass laws or vote against laws, form the legislative field of the state, during the war representatives of this enemy party were and remain not only in the verkhovna rada, but also in local self-government bodies in 2020 for over 4 thousand

deputies were elected from opzh, well, look and here, too, he is right, we need... when all this is published on the voting website, to see who was absent, without good reasons, who was present, but did not vote, that is why this infographic of the agency, unfortunately, is much wider, but as for formal name or not the name of these deputies, people's deputies, unfortunately, are the constitution of ukraine, which clearly states under what conditions a deputy can lose his mandate and cease to be a people's deputy, this is the first, the second among them and such... them of possibilities is death, this court decision, this is a personal statement written to the speaker, we know that there are problems with those people who write statements to put a mandate, as we can see, there is no desire for a big one from the opzz from the remnants that are here today,

we see that they are still alive, healthy, but i do not see that, unfortunately, there are still suspicions for a number of these deputies who were waiting. occupations, which occupied their places potential, by the way, in particular in the presidium of the verkhovna rada, now they are sitting peacefully and calmly in the opzh, giving coalition votes situational for, unfortunately, the servants of the people, there are no suspicions for them either in collaborationism, nor treason, it seems to me that artem dmytruk is one of the bright people present in the parliament today, one of them, and here we can mention boyko, and lyovochkin and many others on the list, but unfortunately, for this we also need... if there was a political voice and will for these people to draw up their mandates and leave the parliament, unfortunately, this will is not there even from bankova street, i think that there would be more than one volume for each of them. criminal proceedings and suspicions that could have sufficient grounds to these people submitted their mandate and left the parliament. and there is already, there is already a reaction from the uoc

mp, the head of the information and educational department of the uoc, metropolitan kliment, said in a public comment that the uoc mp will continue to live as a true church, any attempts to ban it may lead to. editing of those who seek it. the ukrainian orthodox church will live, and this is an objective thing, any attempts to ban an objective thing will only lead to discredit, including international discredit, of those who want to implement it somehow. mr. volodymyr, as far as i am understood that the biggest problem will be when applying the norms of this law, actually, to demonstrate any religious organization, we are not talking only about the russian orthodox church, but obviously there may be other churches that have ties with the aggressor country, this is to prove

that this church is affiliated with the russian orthodox church or with some russian churches, others, that is, this will be the biggest problem, and the biggest problem will be in the court problem in this, sergey, i law contains seven criteria. meeting one of those criteria means connection with the russian church, with its center in moscow. moreover, i even want to say that at one time , about a year or so ago, just as the decision of the national security council was being implemented, we already had an examination conducted by the state service for politics and freedom and conscience, which revealed that there was a connection between the so-called ukrainian orthodox church with the moscow patriarchate, so in reality it is not such a problem, because in fact it is practically impossible to hide these organizational ties, and... the orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate did not really care about them to hide, believing that the situation can change again, that they made a fuss and that 's the end of it, we'll get over somehow, no, we haven't

got over, the law has been passed, so now we ourselves are faced with a choice, or break those ties with moscow and act by merging either to the orthodox church of ukraine, or as some separate structure, or to stop their activities, they understand very well that the situation has already changed. so these silly comments about objective reality, they are about nothing, reality changed after the adoption of this law, and they are obliged, trying to act in the legal field of ukraine, to adapt to this reality. thank you, mr. volodymyr, ms. solemiya, for russians , the existence of a church under the control of the russian orthodox church is and has always been important, that is, putin has repeatedly spoken publicly. about the fact that this spiritual unity, that we came from the same root or from the same church there, well

, of course, this foundation, which he tried to pump up during the last 2-4 years of his stay in power, it testifies to what is obvious , obviously, not so easy from the side this process will take place in russia and... obviously, this is a rather painful process for putin himself, who lives in some of his illusions and makes up his pseudo-historical intelligence and tries to explain the unity of ukrainians and russians. what do you think the reaction of putin, who always counted on the roc , well, to the branch of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, now it is called the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow... patriarchate, will they somehow manage to maintain their influence on some regions, can they rename some,

well, create some church, name it there, conditionally speaking, the ukrainian church is there and they should leave their connections there, so first of all , you are right. in the concept of the russian world , it plays one of these important places, in particular in documents, by the way, the russian world is clearly spelled out in resolutions, orders, in particular of the president of the russian federation, and unfortunately, we remember, it was because of the spread of this russian world that the second in the 14th year under the pretext of protecting, yes, people who profess the russian peace, and the russian language is one of these factors and ending with the 22nd. the beginning of the great invasion, so you're right, i really doubt it's going to just fall in love, more than the other way around, and if we're talking. in the uoc, very

often, by the way, the judicial branch of government, this is very common, they are the people who support, by the way, the roc, or the uoc, who are often beautiful and great people, who finance a large part of the construction of these churches, so i think there's going to be a lot more sabotage at the decision-making level at the court level and we have to prepare for that, i think it's going to be one of the biggest our challenges regarding the ability of the people or the commission, behind-the-scenes politics, freedom of conscience to prove where there are violations, and the question is what kind of people are working in this commission today, what are their lobbying interests, how will they behave, and the second is judicial instance, therefore, we are entering a very long, large, complex phase, perhaps and definitely more complex than even the one that volodya started, by the way, uh, and we continued

decommunization, decolonization at the local levels. this is a much bigger challenge for us, and here we will have to work completely professionally, starting from lawyers, and ending with public pressure in the courts and not allowing these things into the public domain. when discussing this draft law or the law that has already been passed, we always discussed how religious organizations would exist and what the order would be for the existence of these religious... organizations that were once or are connected to russia federation, but we practically did not discuss how the parishioners would react, many people who are used to going there to the moscow priests, and very often in my social networks, i start writing about these decisions of the verkhovna rada, they come and start telling us that we are doing so well and we will somehow live with it and... what are you

telling us here, mr. volodymyr, or was this discussed a matter of, let's say, er, working with the parishioners to make them clearly understand that the church they were going to is an enemy church, and in some way to convey to the public audience that such a church has no right to exist in the territory. of ukraine? i think the majority parishioners, even the uocp, are there not because it is a moscow church, there not because they like putin, because of some simple traditions, because they believe in a specific priest there, and so on, and the law actually provides for possibilities for these people to continue to remain the same parish, to pray in this church, if they

are ready. either to switch to the orthodox church of ukraine and the law provides for an easier procedure for switching to the orthodox church of ukraine as the only legitimate canonical orthodox church in ukraine now, or can continue as some separate church separated from russia. i am sure that for the majority of these people, this organizational connection with russia is not fundamental, unfortunately, it is fundamental for the hierarchy of this church, which, in fact, they were. agents of the russian peace in ukraine, unfortunately, they were the fundamental organizational link for many priests, priests of this church, who were actually such a nervous link between moscow and kyiv, therefore the task of our draft law from the very beginning was not to prohibit anyone pray, and tear these organizational ties, i am sure that after breaking these organizational ties, those people for whom prayer to god is really important.

will pray to god, regardless of the fact that now it will not be done through moscow. thank you, mr. volodymyr, friends, i would like to remind you that we are working live and today we are conducting a survey during our entire broadcast , we are asking you about whether the russian orthodox church will stop operating in ukraine after the adoption of the law, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube , yes, no, or own opinion, please write in the comments below this video. if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote for the numbers. 0800 211 381, if you believe that the adoption of the law, after the adoption of the law, the activities of the roc in ukraine will cease, no, not immediately, of course, but it will cease. no 0800 211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. another important topic of mr. volodymyr and ms. solemia, which...