uh, it is within the competence of other ee decision-making centers, let's say this, but recently this story appeared on the agenda and they started talking about it, about an attempt to get a second tomos, for example, uh, in parallel with this, another one appeared, but already such a very persistent appeal of the metropolitan. epiphany of kyiv, the head of the orthodox church in ukraine, to metropolitan onufry with a call for unconditional unification without preconditions and so on, all this signals to us that the path will be long, but the acceptance of this of the law, i would call such a point of no return, that is, that church, that branch of the russian orthodox... church, which remained with us

literally until today, well, until the moment the new law comes into force, this organization will no longer exist, but those people who were part of it and those people who, so to speak, support it, they remain in ukraine, and their path to, so to speak, ukrainian, church affiliation, it will obviously be long and... and they will take various different paths these people go, i think someone will join the ukrainian orthodox church churches in ukraine, someone, so to speak, will switch to some illegal status, someone will look for forms of self-organization, well, for example, its patriarch filaret broke with the orthodox church in ukraine and created

their religious organization, that is, there will be some other religious organizations that will insist on their understanding of canonicity there, something else, it will be a long and obviously difficult process, but the main thing is that we will no longer have a church that will be subordinate to moscow, but what will be the reaction to your opinion, from the side of russia, because the russian orthodox church has always believed that... everything that is on the territory of ukraine is originally russian, and theirs, including the church, and all these parishes, they are long, have controlled all these structures for a long time, and probably still partially control, both for putin and for russians in general, the existence of the russian orthodox church, this, this, this is a very important element of their policy towards ukraine. of course, of course, for them it is

such a painful process, and in fact there is already a first reaction, a very sharp one, that is, they are all earthly and heavenly punishments on our heads, so to speak so to speak, they call for this decision, but here we should also pay attention to certain such points, which i would associate with such a specific sphere of church politics, we remember. we remember the reaction of the same onufry to the beginning of a full-scale invasion, that is, it was not rejection and rejection, and i think, for a certain part of the clergy of the ukrainian orthodox church, it was a betrayal of russia's attack on ukraine, because she, so to speak, this act he. .. well

, it is openly hostile, and this has undermined the position of this church in ukraine, and we remember that so to speak, there were certain contradictions, that is, i think that the crack in the relations between the kyiv metropolitanate and the russian orthodox church, it has passed and it has existed for quite a long time, so on the ideological level, so to speak... you are at the front on the ideological level, of course, russia will try to use this event to the fullest and will talk about the catastrophe, orthodoxy and all that, but in a certain, in a certain moral sense and in some sense, probably also in an organizational sense, i think that this did not come as a surprise to cyril and for the clergy roc and with... in general, this is a natural step,

which was already impossible, so to speak, to stop, i think, somewhere this perception is also in the majority. the clergy and parishioners of the ukrainian orthodox church in ukraine itself, i think they understood what was going on, and already, so to speak, it will be impossible to glue this broken, broken cup together, well, obviously, the current decision will also affect the position of russia regarding the possible negotiations, which have been talked about a lot in the past few months in... the western press talked about the fact that these negotiations are apparently underway, lavrov says that especially after what happened in kurshchyna, the possibility of negotiations with ukraine is almost zero, let's listen to what

putin's ribbentrop says. after the attacks on the kurdistan region began, even the invasion of the territory of the kurdistan region, there is no talk of any negotiations. and the president also said a very important thing that i would like to draw attention to, that we will definitely evaluate this situation a little later. well, and the rumors about certain hidden contacts to prepare for negotiations on the energy facilities of russia and ukraine with the mediation of qatar, whoever said about some hints that russia will somehow be involved there, this is all from the sly, because i say again, it is about... which has a single goal: to promote an ultimatum under the burgenstock process, which is unacceptable for us, called zelensky's formula in the black sea , mr. maksym, do you agree that this whole story with the kursk region, the entry of the armed

forces of ukraine into the territory of this region, and now the decision to ban the russian orthodox church in ukraine, that they simply put the cross on... well , at least in the near future, on possible even hypothetical negotiations advisers or third assistants in qatar or elsewhere in another country? yes, of course, now in this situation, the prospect of any negotiations is remote, so to speak, although, so to speak, the situation on the battlefield continues to remain. in a dead end, and so our offensive in kurshchyna would simply level our chances to a certain extent and not allow putin to speak from a position of strength, in those conditions when russian troops are slowly but still advancing in donbas, but here i think that

this is the pause taken by the government in person the president and the leadership of the verkhovna rada and the servants of the people in... i mean in support of this church law, it was largely still connected with what was expected, obviously, both by our leadership and by our western partners, with whom we should, so to speak, coordinate their steps, and which are an important part of the negotiation process, so i think that until recently there was hope that russia would abandon this tone and... the letters of the ultimatums, which putin actually announced last of them about the withdrawal of ukrainian troops from four regions and so on further, and only after it became clear that russia is not going to make any compromises, and russia continues

to try to speak from a position of strength, ukraine allowed herself, and was obviously allowed to do so by our partners, to also hurt russia, i.e. entering the kursk region, adopting this law on religious organizations associated with the aggressor country, ukraine, for its part, raised the stakes and, so to speak, put forward its demands rather radically and categorically. under these conditions, the possibility of negotiations has not disappeared, but... no, this there will no longer be negotiations in the wake of putin's ultimatums, it is obvious that moscow must reconsider its positions, whether it will be putin or someone else, if there is a change of power there, this is already a technical issue, so to speak, it is already clear that the negotiations , they probably

will someday, but they will no longer be under the dictates of moscow. thank you, mr. maksym, for the conversation, it was maksym rozum. political scientist, doctor of political sciences, friends, we continue to work live on the tv channel, we will look at the interim results of our survey, today we ask you about the following, or at activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine after the adoption of the law of the verkhovna rada of ukraine. so, what are our interim tv poll results? 47% yes, 53% no. well, in the meantime, i want to remind you that until august 24, espresso is preparing a special project "light people in dark times". interesting stories about heroic people, interviews with viktor yushchenko, svyatoslav shevchuk, serhii plukhie and much more. and already at 10 p.m. hours documentary 10 years of war on independence day at espresso from 80 am to

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, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv, andriy smoliy and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. do you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, see saturday politicians. club every saturday for espresso. congratulations, friends, the second part of the verdict program is live on the espresso tv channel. my name is serhiy rudenko, and for the next 45 minutes we will talk about the following. a difficult spiritual choice. the ukrainian orthodox church must

break canonical and organizational ties with the russian orthodox church, or disappear. will the kyiv metropolitanate dare to leave 350 years of dependence on moscow. war does not prevent stealing. law enforcement officers expose corruption in ministries and departments almost every day. why zelenskyi? still not with dreamed of a promise to equate corruption with treason. effective control. ukrainian military is being created in the border areas of russia. commandants, what does this mean and how will ukraine administer these territories? friends, we are working live, and throughout our broadcast we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about whether the russian orthodox church will stop operating in ukraine after the adoption of the law, well, it means the law that was adopted today by the verkhovna rada of ukraine,

everything is on youtube quite simply yes or no if you have a different opinion. please write in the comments under this video, if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote on 0800 211 381 if you think that after the adoption of the law of the supreme verkhovna rada, which reads as follows, regarding activities in ukraine religious organizations, the activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine will be suspended 0800 211 381 no 0800. 11382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i want to introduce the guests of our studio today, this is volodymyr vyatrovych, people's deputy of ukraine from european solidarity, member of the parliamentary committee on humanitarian and information policy. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening. solomiya

bobrovska, people's deputy of ukraine from voice, member of the parliamentary committee on issues. of national security, defense and intelligence, deputy head, head of the permanent delegation of the verkhovna rada to the nato parliamentary assembly. mrs. solomia, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. good evening. well, since we ask our viewers and viewers. mr. volodymyr and ms. solomia, will the russian orthodox church cease to operate in ukraine, will the russian orthodox church cease to operate in ukraine. after the adoption of the law, i will ask you in the format of a blitz survey, what do you think about this, whether this law will stop the activities of the roc branch in ukraine, ms. solomi, i think that volodymyr would probably be more correct, he is the right committee, but my answer is also blitz , unfortunately, no, this is only the beginning, and she can stop only for those

parishes or parishes, which are very directly related to the documents... have more precisely a direct relation to the russian synod. thank you, ms. solemia, mr. volodymyr. i have a slightly different answer: the russian orthodox church will cease its activities, because a separate article of the law clearly prohibits the activities of the russian orthodox church of ukraine. as for other organizations that are affiliated with it, the so-called uocmp, for that it will be necessary to conduct an examination, for that a court decision will be required, all mechanisms are needed so that this religious organization... either breaks ties with moscow or ceases to exist, it is in the law, but we live in ukraine, we understand very well that the implementation of the law is possible under the condition of public pressure, observation of journalists , that's why we are watching together, we did everything for this to happen, we have all the possibilities for this, but we are not relaxing, well, but in this situation that

is currently developing in ukraine, there is a full-scale war, there is an armed church that works under. .. the sign of the uoc mp, and we we understand that this is part of a branch of the russian orthodox church, although they said in the spring of 22 that they had nothing to do with the russian orthodox church, is it necessary in the conditions of war, ms. solomiya, that this period, the transitional period, is very long, nine months for to find out, to get everything right at a time when there is a threat to national security and defense. well , look, it's obvious that i would say that no, it's not necessary, and we, the representatives of western ukraine, have already eaten our teeth on this a long time ago, i represent the rivne region, which is actually has always been one of the most conflicted areas in religious, among religious organizations, you know very well, in fact, that especially the north of the area, this belt of poliska, it is actually filled with the russian church,

unfortunately, the transitions were very difficult and they really in... to minimum, unfortunately, precisely in the rivne region, for example, yes, when we are talking at least about western ukraine, how it happened, so obviously, i would like to say no, because i grew up following the examples of vasyl chervonyu, one of heads of administration our regional ones, who were killed by the russian church itself before the arrival of cyril, but since we have a democratic society and the search for compromises is actually a priority for us, and this compromise was found and er... so acceptable to all parties, er, who voted for whom it was received, but finally allowed it all into the hall, then, unfortunately, we all have to agree, and here... volodya was absolutely right, the most difficult thing will be our story, this issue will be the implementation of this law, not even in time will be history, the question of implementation, how the courts will accept

decisions, how these or other violations, these or other connections will be considered, and so on and so forth, because in addition to western ukraine, we have eastern, southern ukraine, northern ukraine, which is not going to move towards such independence from the kremlin , and unfortunately, this... this humanitarian direction gave us a crack somewhere and went into regression, i must admit that, because often at the front, often it is the east and the south, and i am very sorry that we are falling apart, starting with language, of which ukrainian is heard less and less on the street, ending again after all, with music and even those concerts that may be held in russian in kyiv, i am not talking about the release of two ukrainian-language books there and so on and so forth, it seems to me that we are entering a very difficult and turbulent... a period where we have to endure either regression or progress in the protection of the humanitarian direction, president zelenskyi, who just a few days

ago announced the adoption of a decision on, as he said, spiritual independence, today thanked the verkhovna rada of ukraine, which passed a law banning the activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, it was a government bill that was supported in the second reading by 265 votes, let's hear what he said. the law regarding our spiritual independence has been passed, this is what we talked about with the members of the council of churches and religious organizations, and in a few days i will also talk with the representatives of the ecumenical patriarch bartholomew. we will continue to strengthen ukraine, our society, i expect documents from the parliament. mr. volodymyr, your colleague oleksandr zinchenko, a historian and publicist, said that, well finally a coalition of national

unity was formed, because the slogan army-language is faith, now this is the slogan of volodymyr zelenskyi, but zelenskyi did not mention the fact that the representatives of your faction, in particular mykola knyazhytskyi, and your deputies from european solidarity back in the 22nd year offered make an appropriate decision, why did it all take so long, why did we see this delay of this final decision, even in the government's implementation, i mean the law and the adoption of a decision in the parliament, stefanchuk did not put this bill, there was a very long period between the first and second, second reading, what was the problem? well, first of all, it seems to me that sasha zinchenko, despite the fact that he is a historian, he showed excessive optimism. having said that a kind of coalition army is the language of faith has already been formed, i commented on it by the way as follows that nothing will stop zelensky, who decided to lead an idea whose time has come, in fact, and

answering the previous questions, i am not so sorry for those women seven months, which will require additional, which will require the implementation of this law, to me it's really a pity that this bill was not adopted immediately, as soon as the first of them appeared. draft laws on this topic in the spring of 22nd year, there were all opportunities for this, just then, probably, volodymyr zelenskyi’s voice was lacking, volodymyr zelenskyi, unfortunately, stood aloof from these processes for a long time, accordingly, the absolute majority of representatives of the servant of the people party, for with some exceptions, who were very actively involved in this process, but the majority, unfortunately, stood aside and did not take any position, there is a small part in fact, there were those who took a clear pro-russian position, most of them. who took a pro-ukrainian position, but the largest part was the part that did not have any position, and they were waiting for president zelensky to finally take a position, but this is exactly

the case when it is better late than never, unfortunately, it happened only a few weeks ago, and we can see how much it immediately changed the situation in the parliament, to the point that today, in fact, the adoption took place with the tacit consent of the opzh, who did not even put to confirm, considering none of my more than a thousand edits, i didn't even try... somehow to disrupt this whole meeting, so zelensky's role here is that this process started is really big, but i'm sorry that it took so much time it was necessary to spend, and in fact, i think we succeeded, precisely because we were able to appeal and convince the majority of ukrainian society, as sociology showed, more than 80% of ukrainians supported the ban of the russian orthodox church, i think that this became the decisive factor. those decisive ones a driver of influence on volodymyr zelenskyi, who decided that it was worth supporting it, given the changes that had taken place in

public consciousness. it is a pity that the parliament sometimes lags behind, slows down, instead of somehow shaping public sentiments, does not keep up with them, but it is better than contradicting those public sentiments, therefore, in any case, i believe that an important historical event took place today, with which i congratulate everyone. as for the voting itself, analysts of the movement honestly analyzed the list of people's deputies who voted against the law prohibiting the activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, or those who abstained, that's why? you see, this infographic was made by our colleagues honestly, opposition platform for life, 17 votes against, restoration of ukraine - seven against and one abstention, servant of the people - four against and three abstentions, non-factional, one vote against, we see a clear trend in principle when there are factions that are a group, a faction and a group

that were under control. one to medvedchuk, and the other, let’s say, to various groups of oligarchs who voted no or abstained voting for this draft law, and here it appears absolutely, the infographic does not have those who did not vote, there are actually a little more of them, yes, yes, yes, well, yes, they did not vote yet, there are many more servants of the people who simply took out their cards, being in the hall, did not vote, accordingly they are not in this infographic, yes, yes, thank you for the clarification. mr. volodymyr, ms. solomi, considering this, this and such a position on the fundamental issue of these people's deputies of ukraine, whether they can now be called people's deputies of ukraine, isn't it time to raise questions about the existence or presence in the verkhovna rada of people who were elected on the lists of the same party, the opposition platform for life, which is already officially banned in

ukraine, but the deputies still... adopt laws or vote against laws, form the legislative field of the state, under during the war , representatives of this enemy party remained not only in the verkhovna rada, but also in the bodies of local self-government. in 2020 , more than 400 deputies were elected from the opzh. it is necessary to see who was absent when it is all published on the voting website. without good reason, who was present, but did not vote, that is why this infographic of the agency, it is unfortunately much wider. and regarding the formal title or not of these deputies as people's deputies, unfortunately, there is a constitution of ukraine that clearly states the conditions under which a deputy can lose his mandate and cease to be a people's deputy, and this is the first, second, among them and such obvious ones opportunities are death, this is a court decision,

this is... a personal statement written on the speaker, we know that there are problems with those people who write statements to impose a mandate, as we can see, there is no desire for a large part of the opzzh from the remnants that are here today, we see that they are still alive and healthy, but i do not i see that, unfortunately, there are still suspicions for a number of these deputies, who were waiting for the occupation, who occupied their places with potential, by the way, in particular in the presidium of the verkhovna rada, now they are sitting. and peacefully, calmly in opzh giving coalition votes, situational for, unfortunately, the servants of the people, there are no suspects, neither of collaborationism, nor of treason, it seems to me that artem dmytruk is one of the bright people present in the parliament today, one of them, yes, here we can mention boyko, and lyovachkin and many others on the list, but unfortunately, for this, a political voice and will are also needed in order for these people to submit their mandates and leave

the parliament for... more than one volume of criminal proceedings and suspicions that could have sufficient grounds for these people to submit their mandates and leave the parliament. and there is already, there is already a reaction from the uoc mp, the head of information and education department of the uoc, metropolitan kliment said in a public comment. that the uoc mpe will continue to live as a true church, and any attempts to ban it may lead to the discrediting of those who seek it. the ukrainian orthodox church will live, and this is an objective thing, any attempts to ban an objective thing will only lead to discredit, including international discrediting of those who want to implement it somehow. mr. volodymyr, to what extent.