the question is whose gogul is ukrainian or russian? the one who better interprets it, the one who inherits it better, the one who better makes films about based on gogol, you see, it is very important, that is, it is, because it is again, it is a bicycle, it is not, what does it mean is already ready, that we have a ready -made ukrainian or russian gogol, it must be interpreted, we have no doubt about shevchenko, no doubt, but we have a lot of figures who are so-called liminal, they belong to two cultures at the same time, and we have to fight for them , i believe that... a lot of them you have to fight, maybe you don’t have to fight with dostoevsky, i don’t know, this, although i think that dostoevsky with all his toxicity, terrible toxicity, i am a great writer, without him, let’s say, you can’t imagine many things, here is my thesis such, the hope is such, i hope that the war will give and has already given, a great post of ukrainian culture, the dynamics of ukrainian culture, because the war is the beginning of a crisis situation that puts us on the edge,

the feeling is completely different, the emotions are sharper, we see something else that is not see what those who live in peace do not see, and you know, i am here i will give a simple historical example, it may sound banal, but still, sometimes great things are a little banal, we understand that, let's say , the great greek culture was born from the greco-persian wars, if it had not been the greco-persian wars, there would not have been this outbreak, almost all the great greeks that we know of, or would have...participated directly in this war, and was born before this war, the very feeling that a small nation could hand over the forehead, stand up to a great, great empire, you know, and defeat it , it was a huge uplift, that is, i hope, it has hope that in the next decades , ukrainian culture will go up, will go up a lot, will break out, but i think it only has signs of it now, russian culture is no longer developing, it has frozen, it is living as old, old,

let’s say old there with its achievements of the 19th century, and i think , that i don't see any great dynamics in russian culture now, but ukrainian culture can have these dynamics, i hope, at least so, today a lot is said about the fact that in ukraine now we, we, we somehow evaluate what was the last decades, maybe even centuries, as a certain post-colonial, anti-colonial discourse, how good is that? is applied and falls on ukrainian soil, because to a certain extent, it seems to me, these lands were culturally more developed than the metropolis often, well, you have already answered your question, it does not apply, because i keep saying, you know, i remind you, when i answer, i refer to a simple case of my beloved work winipukh, remember, winipukh went to collect honey, and he also realized at the end that he would take honey, because this honey makes the wrong bees, that is, the russian empire was the wrong empire. it had the wrong

colonies, it concerns ukraine, the baltics, and the caucasus, because these colonies were more developed the core itself, we do not have this somewhere else, because in the case it is so that the metropolis is more developed, and the colonies are less developed, uh, it's the opposite here, and it means a very simple thing, russia was a great, but backward empire, it really needed enlightened summers to make this empire, and where did summers come from, where were these reservoirs, and of course in western ukraine, balttia, ukraine, the caucasus, and here we have one. the situation, because actually the ukrainians have to admit, just like the baltics, just like the baltic germans, just like the caucasus, the georgians, for a while they built this empire because they thought it was their empire, they were wrong, they were wrong, so that nothing good came out of this experiment, and that's why a lot of them, let's say among the ukrainians, chose another option, the operations of this empire, and as a result we have such a strange, strange scenario that ukrainians were strongly represented both among the government and among the opposition, you know, this was a strong division, i... only

give one case like this: jews in the soviet union, soviet jews were so strongly represented in the government and proposals were also strongly represented , but it shows, as it were, the drama or the complexity of our history, and so again, i 'm not going to, i don't think, to completely abandon the colonial legacy, because so many of the actors that we know now are actors who passed through these borders, this border and made their contribution, but we have to accept this reality, because we still have to give the colonial legacy, huh, because... gogol, that is, this component, it exists, it is now sometimes, i it doesn’t exist, because you know, it’s very important if you read russian authors, russian authors don’t like hegol, critics sometimes even hate him, because i think he’s a damned scumbag, because there is one character that few people pay attention to , although if you look closely at her, it's so obvious that you know why

haven't seen it before, pay attention, all the heroes are ukrainian gogol - these heroes are attractive, they are blood and milk, they are cossacks, they are my girls, you understand, it's all the same, well, how do you know, like good children, but they are all alive , you know, they all burn energy, on the other hand, when you look at russian heroes, then khlistakov, then chichikov, then nos, then chenel, they are somehow not real, you know, they are some kind of pale-skinned people, who are called zhik st. petersburg, like all the rest, and russians believed that gogol had specially depicted in this way, because in essence gogol ukraine is much more attractive, it 's warm, you know, it's beautiful compared to that cold, cold, cold st. petersburg, you know, looking at how many people who... are actually not of ukrainian origin, but have influenced, influence, will definitely influence ukrainian culture, history, become a part of ukrainian culture, i understand that this project is ukrainian or ukrainian culture, it is extremely attractive , first of all, to those who come from this empire from the east, i have a post-graduate bridge, which is now

in the war, he went to war from the first days, he was a terribly cute child, although he was tall, you know, he was all in a tattoo with a thick beard, that's maksym osachuk, it's scary. with crimea, and he tells me that he was very, you know, he was in vaidar at the beginning, and he was telling a very important thing, he understood that a ukrainian was on the maidan, he was going to the maidan, he came to the maidan, he saw, he saw so much warmth, so much solidarity that it was impossible to resist, he says, it made me ukrainian, i think it is very important that in fact, many people are made ukrainians, because there is something in ukrainian, a terrible, you know, attractiveness, uh, attractiveness is actually a higher will. free will attracts foreigners, if you know so well, you know it is very strong, and it terribly prescribed a lot of ukrainian figures, in fact, they are not of ukrainian origin, you know, petro mohyla, is there a kapnist, you know, the very surnames for them are franco, who was

franko , and his relatives until now, i was, i was actually in his native village in naguyevychi, and with the naguyevychi there are still franks there, we are we know, the franks, yes, the franks, and the franks also know this. he could be a german and a pole at the same time , and he could even be a jew, but this is a borderline borderline situation. shivelyov, in the end dontsov, yes, absolutely, i will tell you, even lipinsky, they were foreigners, whisperers, who from a certain time were either foreigners or assimilated, who from a certain time were so fascinated by the ukrainian situation, ukrainian identity, not even that identity, and the content of ukrainian identity, that they became ukrainians, aligned themselves with ukrainian, with ukrainians, with their requirements. i can say this, you know, maybe you don't know this, i know exactly who in my family was the first ukrainian, i remember establishing it, and it was my great-grandfather, he chose the same way, because we are all ukrainians without a choice , we just don't remember this, maybe someone is lucky, because we were born long ago, we were the third, second, third generation, yes, fourth, who

have already chosen ukraine, ukrainian, but i know that this is happening en masse, that we are now seeing from year 14 onwards in the 22nd year, is there a risk that every time i add such new ukrainians, because i am also... some added ukrainian for sure, i was born in siberia and, for example, well, even though i am ethnically ukrainian at least half there, but does that have now it makes sense, but even for those who joined, relatively speaking, this ukraine project in the 90s, it may seem to them that today's ukrainians, who yesterday were russian-speaking, went around, listened to russian rap, and so on, and today speak with mistakes, there is such an attitude towards them, they say, try your best more, you are bringing something russian to us, you are dissolving, this is this, this is this ukrainian concentrate, should we be afraid of it? i don't know, we must, we must be careful, let's put it this way, because i believe, my point of view is that in the public sphere the ukrainian language should dominate, in the private sphere, we say to ourselves whatever we want at home, even in chinese, we cannot influence that ,

but for various reasons the ukrainian language should be the public language, the language of public space, which is called, you know, the language of television, and the language of, i don't know, newspapers still exist or not, well at least. social networks and all the rest, it's normal, it's normal, especially since the russian language is losing this status, i like to repeat it all the time, this is a sociological study, which shows the world that last year the russian language lost the status of one of the ten largest languages of the world, you know which languages ​​have lost ground, you never mention, portuguese has also lost ground among the languages ​​most often chosen by foreigners, here credit goes to putin. you know, he degraded this language, because again, says mine friend, it’s like that, you know, sometimes social leaders can say obvious things that are not obvious to us, he says that there is a problem with the russian language, not because it is somehow complicated, something else, but because the russian language does not have any countries in the world that would be russian-speaking and at the same time

a democracy, this is not the fault of the language, but the fault of the culture that functions in this language, you have english-speaking democracies, you have german-speaking democracies. spanish is very important, you know, we even have a chinese-speaking democracy, if we talk about taiwan, we are not we have no russian-speaking, russian-speaking democracy, that is, if we talk about democracy. which give freedom, which give freedom and dignity to an individual individual, that is, this is very important, i believe that the choice of the ukrainian language is also the choice of the dignity itself, well, not dignity, content, it is very important, you know, this yes, so far we do not have the russian language as a carrier of the same idea of ​​freedom as it is in the ukrainian case, eh, whether it will happen and how it will happen depends on the war and the circumstances. me again i'm speaking here purely subjectively, you already know , because there is no sociological basis, although

i think maybe someone did it, but what i observe, that the number of people who switch to ukrainian-russian speak from what is being done at the front , if the ukrainian front wins, the number of ukrainian-speakers also increases, if we do not have progress on the ukrainian front, we have this reversal, because there is... that group of people who will be swayed, will be swayed, would be bothered by the second of march from what will happen to be done in this country, in particular, what will be done during, during the war, we have a tendency, a clear tendency towards the growth of ukrainian-speaking, the question is, firstly, whether this tendency cannot go back, it is quite possible, because everything is possible in history, and secondly, whether we will create the appropriate we, i i say we, because i think that this task is ours, those people who work in the mass media, in history, write books, music, and everyone else. do we institutionalize it, you know, because when

something cannot be reversed, when it is a pestilence operation, it is very important, and here i actually think that institutions decide everything, whether it will have the right institutions, good institutions, but again, this is a question that cannot be answered now, because it is not a question of words, of our actions. institutions are more about people, whether it is laws or not, i don't know, but at least, at least, at least the institutions themselves know. you work at a catholic university, it's an institution, well, how good is a catholic university, because it has a certain quality, you know, a certain quality and people have a certain comfort, it has connections with the outside world and at the same time we are all completely ukrainian-speaking, for this shows that it is possible to be successful, to be ukrainian-speaking, in the soviet union everything was done to be ukrainian-speaking, to be unsuccessful, because the strong success of success was that of the russian language, now we know it as a symbol of success, it is the english language, it is, therefore it is necessary it's very important, i... you know, i say, i said it a long time ago, i'm glad that zelensky made it a law, that in fact, we should have the norm

of learning english, even passing exams, if i'm not mistaken, for officials, officials of the highest level , but it is very important, it is not the language itself that is important, but the content carries whatever symbol it does not carry, it is as attractive as it gives certain, well , you understand, a way out, a way out, a way out, a way out, the world, one thing is clear that such a language as ukrainian, chichai or polish by itself does not give a way out into the world is too small, russian gave, ukrainian will soon be one of the ten largest languages ​​in the world, but it is very important that we can go out into the world through russian, not through russian, english, and also obviously with the appropriate content, but that is another matter matter, that is, this is what i believe the task of the institution, because what does the institution mean, such provision must be provided, let's say education of schools. you can start from kindergarten, where it will be possible for children to achieve, let's say the b-2 level there,

these are simple things, that is, i believe that all our conversations, well, maybe i will grind that most of our conversations at home are a breakdown of strength and with a certain expenditure of intelligence are translated in the construction of certain institutions, which we ourselves can understand, what they should be, how to construct them, is there a burden, i don't know any traditions, what values? which hinder us to modernize, how in principle it is possible, i don’t know, to raise another generation, if there are, for example, parents who remain sufficiently post-soviet, for example, in their views, i don’t know, to tolerate lies, for example, among politicians, or the willingness to sell their vote in the elections, i will say that i may not like it again, especially people of my generation may not like it, the only way is when we die out, because a generation is formed with a set of values. this does not change during life, the body shape is mainly formed in middle age and

is changing, yes, we have a set of generations, a set of values ​​that were formed somewhere in adolescence, relatively speaking, the 70s and 80s, these were not bad years, they were bad economic years, but they were years when ukraine opened up, where there were certain feelings, you know, that the union is falling, there is a kind of polish solidarity from the side, you know, and films, and music, and all the rest... they gave us a certain certain optimism, we and we continue to be our country social social optimists for many people , let's say from the east of ukraine, russian culture was the only event of russian culture for them now. tragedy, but it is very important, and i will say it again, from the point of view of sociology, history, it is very important to work with those children who have adolescence, who are actually forming values, to put it mildly, these are children of senior high schools, plus students of junior faculties, junior years of the university or other higher educational institutions, it

is very important that they feel at this time, that they will feel, of course, not only this is institutional, but let's say what will be done in the yard what the weather will be, you know, whether there will be peace or war, what the economic situation will be, but this is what needs the most attention, as i speak here as a historian who, let's say, believes that generation is one of the key categories of history, let's say on par with nations or with classes, religious groups, the generation is also the group, perhaps the most important group, which shapes the future, we now have a generation which, among which there are teenagers, who, for example, burn cars, cars of armed villages... . of ukraine, they are important, of course they will be, i'm sorry, and they will be the majority or the minority, do they salt or not salt, you understand, it is very important, the question is very criminals in this generation, and the waltzers, that is normal, we understand what the schedule is, it is very important, the question is who here is the tone for that generation, who articulates the voice of this generation, who is the loudest in this generation, you know, the most attractive, it is very important, well, relatively speaking, again without insults, i think that maybe for your generation

such a person is desirable, i suppose, who is listened to the most, so it is very important , who is the one most listened to. uhu, or the most, let's say, admires them, it is very important, this is very important, this, this is the key, there must be such structures where this is formed, with salt production, in a sense, this is because they will determine the tone of the generation, ukraine , it is doomed to be democratic european, no one is doomed, but what i will say is, there is no determinism, in fact, this is the attraction of history, that there is no determinism, but... i always think in categories, let's say, you know how to make bets, so , if i were to bet on democracy of ukraine, europeanness, i have like 8 to 2, we can do this, and these rates are increasing, i would not say that, let's say, in 1991, it was 5/5, 50 to 50, let's say this, i see how these components that drive us europeanism and and and and democracy are increasing, again

, war means a lot, we understand that, in particular, in which in which in which, in which... in the borders, within what limits will we end this war? er, in this, relatively speaking, in such a triad of priorities, people, an independent state and territories, how would you place that priority, is it worth it place? i'm afraid to say something here, first of all, i can point my finger at you, i'm sure i'll do it quickly, because you know, prophesying in a time of war, it's funny, but uh, the only thing i understand is that you have to , what is our hierarchy, what should we have, i believe that our hierarchy is to preserve the ukrainian nation as such, as it is, and to join the european union, not because europe is beautiful, in itself, it is beautiful , and because the introduction of europe means finally leaving the colonial state, from the colonial state where there is a colony of a large

the space on which the metropolis lays its paw, not that... in words i will show that this is its center in fact, moscow considers that kyiv is their center, and it is also very important that it is a colony, a center, a colony that is geopolitical very vulnerable, because there are wars here, constant wars, for me the european union is a way to solve the key security problem, because, let's not talk about europe, we understand that modern europe is the construction where war between two neighboring states, uh, this is very important, that is, i mean this to me, you know what... the key thing for me is to enter europe, the maximum possible territory, with minimal losses, i don't know how to do it, because they don't have answers to questions in the country, you know, many of my acquaintances, older people today , for example, various professors there, they are concerned with the issue in the kitchens, relatively speaking, these conversations

are faster in the kitchens, it is the fact that the best people of this country often die in this war. it's true, you know why, because it's too hard to understand who's the best, who's the worst, every kill, every, every casualty in war is the best, the most expensive, let's say so, and secondly, i judge for myself, because we know about those deaths that affect us the most, they are comical, but agree, there are people who are impossible within a generation again after all, it is impossible to replace, no, it is impossible, but in the end we will understand that both the first world war and the second world war simply knocked out a whole generation of ukrainians, you know, these geniuses of ours, which did not happen, but what i want to say is an empirical observation, my fellow graduate students went to war from the first days, i know many public figures, politicians, historians, fortunately, fortunately , they are all alive, i am not saying that there are no losses among them, but i see that the best ones are dying, even the mass ones, there is not that, at least, thank god that there is not, they are,

they are, they, they they do, they are an asset, they are active, so i think, you know, this is a strong exaggeration, that those who die, die the best, all die, representatives, this is a tragedy, is there a chance that this war, on the contrary , will give birth, well, here i am i remember the late vasylenko, who was the author of the actual state declaration. who said that in the 90s, 89s, before to a certain extent, ukraine could not show a better result, also because we did not have a formed national elite, such as she was, there was such a strict negative selection, for example, in universities, where six departments simply made sure that a person i could not, for example, defend myself, i agree, but look, again, this question is difficult and controversial, because i still remember, you know, i am me, i will live longer. life, when the movement was being built in ukraine, the movement was being built in lviv, most of the leaders of the movement and activists of the movement came from the natural sciences, yes, where

not, where possible there was control, but less, but less, because there, after all, talents were counted, they were physicists, mathematicians, chemists, very important, not historians, historians there were not so many lawyers, there were very few lawyers, it is very important, very important, that is, there was this elite, ugh, that is , if you call it something, you know, you cannot exterminate ukrainians, it is not possible, this is very important, because even people who were mathematicians ... that was not ready, where there was no readiness, there was unpreparedness in the sense that this generation, our summer generation was terribly provincialized, not because it had such a characteristic that we chose it ourselves, because we were provincialized very much, we knew absolutely nothing about the outside world, uh, we didn't know, you know, it's andrews umlent wrote, this is who you know, the economist who helped in ukraine, he said that in 1991 kravchuk was not around, there was only one economist who understood the function... of a market economy, he was a pensioner, here i am i don't know who he is a mozenyk, a penzenyk, i remember these words, his that's what he says about penzenyka, and he says the rest , no one had any idea at all, in contrast, i know this very well-known story,

let's say with balzerovich of poland, when the first non-communist prime minister mozowiecki had the problem of choosing who to become, to make a minister economy, he is on the list of as many as 10 good economists who were in the west, there was only one in ukraine, no one could easily go, for example, to europe. and to give a concert there, this hungarian, baltserovych , you know very simply, how they got out, because he was on football player in america, which ukrainian could be on the football team in america in the 80s and 70s, at best, at worst, at best, it was someone in moscow who went to moscow and , you know, made a career there, as a russian-speaking ukrainian , that was all, and that was that, that was a terrible provincialization, we weren't ready because we didn't know how, we, we wanted, and wanted very much, we had this feeling, purely instinctive, but there was no feeling , how to do all this was simple... hope can hope, it worked, that those country will declare its independence, our life will change dramatically for the better, it didn't happen because we didn't know how the laws work, how

these, you know, regularities work, but this, but this is feelings, and sometimes feelings are stronger than rational considerations, this it didn't take long , well, one way or another, we are doomed to live with such a neighbor, probably like russia, or maybe not doomed, i think that maybe russia can somehow fall apart, defragment, but you know, you are here, i will also allow myself then from mass culture. to take an example, for me russia is something, this a zombie army from romero's films, that is, their peculiarity is that they can, linguistically speaking, turn anyone into a part of their army, maybe yes, maybe yes, maybe no, well, if we talk about the chechens like this, but you have to knock them out quickly, relatively speaking, this system of the elite, in order to make the chechens what they are now, to destroy the elite, is very important, but it doesn't matter who you are, you can be a chechen, you had to be a russian, a buryat, but a russian, a ukrainian, which is very important, here there is such a simple factor, morphic, it is too difficult for you ukrainians exterminate too many of them, do you remember, you don't remember, i don't remember, because i wasn't there in 1956, but khrushchev told in

1956 in this mysterious speech that stalin allegedly had with the goal of taking all ukrainians to siberia, there were not enough vogons, because this, but it can be different, it is not true, but this metaphor is very important, you cannot swallow such large pieces as ukrainians, ukrainians, because after all, they remain remainder, it is very important, and to a certain extent it was on... charted, this is our great demographic potential, today, ukraine has the lowest birth rate in the world, and russia is actually one of the lowest, this month they set an anti-record for their entire history, despite all putin's efforts to distribute medals and money there for every child born, and in short, 300 thousand, for example , ukrainian children are currently in poland, they will go to polish schools from september 1, it is already obligatory and where they will study. in polish, will we return these children? i don’t know, it’s hard to say, or it depends on how long it will last, how long to shave, what consequences

will be government policy. after the war, my hope is, the calculation is rather that when the war ends, ukraine will integrate into the european union, at least it will begin to integrate, investments will begin, and western investments must begin in ukraine for reconstruction and reconstruction , there will be a strong need for people who will have a double experience, they will be ukrainians and at the same time they will have western experience, i think that in such cases we aim to become a so -called golden stock. which will help ukraine to rebuild itself into a good one way, you know, it's an old thesis that no one has refuted: no independence happens without immigration, because immigration actually gets rid of, allows us to get rid of that provinciality of other sins that we don't see, because we're inside, because migration is very often brings new social capital, new habits, you know, i hope that the children study, the children who study in

the british school, maybe also... they will not return to the ukrainian school, they will return to ukraine, but they will not want to live in that school , which now has, you know, what i want to say, this social one is very important, that is, this is the minus that we can transform, you know, again i return to poland, we don't remember it now, but in the 90s, the 90s poland was in a much worse situation than ukraine, economically, and the polish occupation was huge, what ukrainian women are doing in italy now, it was polish women, but these masses came back and it was thanks to them, well, no... thank you very much for this conversation, we join all of ukraine in congratulating us on the 33rd day independence, yaroslav hrytsak was with us today, thank you.

an unusual look at the news: good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresin, a sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions, for example, if mykola veresin would do that, he would go to prison, a special look at events in ukraine, yes that it is not necessary to say that the fish rots from the head, no, not from the head, and beyond it, then who is china, my heart hurts, all this in the information marathon with mykola veresny, saturday 17:10, sunday 18 :15 for espresso. a journalist who joined the armed forces, a political expert who became a special agent, taras berezovyts in a new project on espresso. the real front is a thorough analysis of the main events. reports, comments of leading specialists and experts. analytics from the major of the armed forces. how to make sense of disturbing news and distinguish truth from hostile propaganda. the real front program with taras berezovets every saturday at 21:30 on espresso.

watch this week in the judicial control program with tatyana shustrova. release of knyazev. why the ex-chairman of the supreme court lost his position for renting an apartment? to dismiss prince sellad serhiyovych from the position of judge of the administrative court of cassation. but who in the vrp helped knyazev not to answer for a multimillion-dollar bribe. the record holder is simply the first to close cases. congratulations. you are watching judicial review. i am tatyana shostrova. for four years of work, the higher anti-corruption court has already passed more than 20 verdicts in corruption cases against ukrainian judges. almost all were accusatory. however, there are many high-profile cases involving multimillion-dollar bribes and abuses still not completed. moreover, the ministers of themis, who have committed serious crimes and are involved in high-profile cases, have not been dismissed from their positions for years. they are even

everywhere. continue to receive hundreds of thousands of salaries, without carrying out judicial proceedings, the former head of the supreme court, vsevolod knyaz, who is suspected of corruption , was dismissed by the supreme council of justice the other day, not for the largest multimillion-dollar bribe in history, but for the extremely low price of the apartment he rented in kyiv. why is it so difficult to bring the most corrupt judges to justice? let's talk today. and first to the news. the higher anti-corruption court stopped the consideration of the case of the judge of primorye district court of odesa ilya lonskyi. he was mobilized to the ranks of the armed forces of ukraine. ilya lonsky is accused of attempting to give an illegal benefit to another judge of the same court for making a positive decision in an administrative case, as well as taking part of a bribe by deception. national.