or try to fight this system, but the result of this fight will be the same as for those who will be destroyed in the occupation, this is what will happen if we lose our independence in this war, so this is not acceptable to me, what will our independence be, when we defend our right to be independent in this war, and i'm afraid in the next one too, because i... i am convinced that russia will not leave us in the near future, should we join nato, which i sincerely hope, but saying, to say that i directly believe, it is in the near future, by others in words, we either defend our independence, and it will be a long time, and we, it will be a long process, and we must be ready for the fact that...

we still have to fight and fight, because the option of being defeated is a disaster for us. in conclusion, i do not know what our independence will be like, i know exactly what our defeat in this war and the loss of independence can be, so i am grateful to everyone who is defending the country now, realizing what is at stake. and what will our independence be after? and we will decide, then we will agree, well, we, ukrainians, know how to negotiate among ourselves, despite the fact that they quarrel very loudly. mr. oleksandr, we have literally one and a half minutes left, could you please tell us more about the situation in the pokrovsky area? well, i can't say for the whole direction, because after all, i see what's happening in the... area

of ​​responsibility of our battalion, i see what's happening in the area of ​​responsibility of my company, we're holding on, we're inflicting significant losses on the enemy losses, the enemy is not finished, the enemy continues to try to advance in our area, but he does not succeed, so to speak, but i can talk about how we act, and... and stick to one word, thank you for what you are doing to you, your brothers, your sisters, all those who are now in that hell and are doing everything to save this independence of ours, because it really did not end in 1991, and this is not just a holiday, but it is a big job, a job to keep this independence, and for that we thank you very much, i think that our viewers are also grateful to you, and all those who is... now, who is not

celebrating now, because it is not until the holiday, thank you, thank you oleksandr ebchanka, commander of the vovka battalion davinche, the 59th separately mechanized brigade was in touch with us, we are the same bright person who in dark times does everything to make ukraine better, in fact , our marathon today is dedicated to such people, this history, those who, with their daily actions and indomitable spirit, brings the victory of ukraine closer, as well as conversations with people who do something for ukraine, and now for your attention, after a short break, there will be an interview with the minister of foreign affairs of poland, radosław sikorski within the framework of this project bright people in dark times, what the minister of foreign affairs of poland says about when ukraine may end up in the european union, more on that later. when you sleep on an uneven surface,

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events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, the news feed reports on them, but few know what is happening. it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskyi and invited experts soberly assess the events, analyze them, simulating ours future. every saturday at 13:10 with a repeat at 22:00. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. the verkhovna rada regularly passes new laws, but how do these changes affect our lives? we have analyzed the new decrees to inform you about the latest changes in ukrainian legislation. how do legislative norms change our lives, what

should we prepare for? leading lawyers of the aktum bar association will answer these and other questions that concern ukrainians. watch every tuesday at 7:55 in the legal experts program. on the espresso tv channel. dear brothers and sisters in christ, great courageous ukrainian people, i sincerely congratulate all of us on the holiday of free, cathedral, independent ukraine. this is a holiday of love for the motherland. this is the time when it is time for us for ukraine. don't live, i congratulate you, the great ukrainian people, on the holiday of the independent homeland, i congratulate you,

our dear tv viewers, my name is lesya vakulyuk, you are watching the espresso tv channel, and we on our tv channel have prepared a project for the 33rd anniversary of ukraine's independence, which is called our. people in dark times and within this project, we record conversations with those people who illuminate the path of our country. today, my guest will be the minister of foreign affairs of poland, radoslav sikorskyi, a great friend of ukraine. mr. radoslav, i congratulate you. good day. mr. radoslav, in 1991, when ukraine became independent, you worked as a journalist, writing for the american media. did you write then that...

in 1991, i was in ukraine in donbas and wrote for the american. the national review magazine that ukrainians in the east of ukraine also want independence. and for this one independence was voted in your referendum. and it is important to remember that the east of ukraine, as well as crimea, voted for the exit from the soviet union and for the independence of ukraine. of ukraine. this war, today's russian aggression, was impossible to imagine at that time, but it is worth noting that the collapse of the soviet union itself, as a kind of colonial empire, was quite bloodless. then the daughter was bloodless. and today's. the war is an aftereffect, the last phase of russian colonialism. only when the russians finally

understand that rebuilding the empire is impossible, then they will rethink themselves as a post-colonial country. how long will it take for them to realize that it is impossible to rebuild the russian empire, at the moment it does not look like... i think it will take another year or two, because it is obvious that russia is no longer able to gather such forces , which would achieve putin's initial goals. and the russian economy is beginning to fail. the imperial germans lost the world war four years later when they ran out of means to wage war.

elites led by putin will realize that her the extension is not worth the money it takes. actually, ukrainians have the impression that the world, on the one hand, wants ukraine to win, and on the other hand, does not want russia to lose. is it possible for ukraine to win and not for russia to lose? it depends on who you ask. it depends on who you ask, i think it is very important not only for ukraine

to win, but for russia to realize that they lost. this will not be the first war that russia has lost, it is necessary to counter russian disinformation, as i did in the un security council in march. the japanese war lost the invasion of poland in 1920, lost the first world war, was excluded from it, lost the war in afghanistan, lost the war in chechnya, lost the cold war, and in fact after each time there were reforms, so the victory of ukraine is a chance not only for ukraine, but and for russia. the world already understands that now about this war.

ukraine received approximately 200 billion euros in aid, more or less half from the eu and the us, these are gigantic funds. like polish. when we fought russia many times, like poland in the 19-2 centuries, mostly we fought alone. but of course, the ukrainians themselves take part the most. this bold offensive, which is already being conducted on the territory of russia, in my opinion, restores faith in the fact that ukraine can win, that it will have strong cards in the negotiations. i know how difficult it all is, i know

how many refugees there are, i know how destroyed the infrastructure is, i know how many ukrainian soldiers have died, how many have not returned for months and years, this is a very difficult situation for you. many ukrainian railway workers died, many were injured. but it seems to me that putin made a catastrophic mistake, and he is no longer able to achieve his initial goals. putin has made catastrophic mistakes of his original goals nie jest juzh w stanie połychnosti. but ukraińcy behave like that, maja takie. ukrainians, however, have the feeling that despite the fact that they are receiving help from the world, but it is happening with a certain delay, because we could have received western weapons earlier and with a well-trained army, we would have achieved more, do you think? i agree, i say it to americans

and i say it to everyone, so i will say it to you. the americans were at least six behind months with your aid package, but you are also much more late with your mobilization, both of which are decided by politicians. what do you think will be a victory for ukraine? this is for you to decide, we have no right to interfere with how long you still want to fight, what national accounts you want to achieve? europe must continue its... slow, because russia has broken two taboos established after two bloody world wars. one cannot change the borders by force under the pretext of helping her brothers if she wants to fight for rights of minorities, which is allowed, it can be done with the help of the council of europe convention on the protection of the rights of national minorities, and not with

the help of tanks and missiles. council of europe to business. and here europe is interested in ukraine regaining its control over internationally recognized borders. this will continue, because putin ended the poster child of the cold war, during which it seemed that we had a lasting peace in europe. we now turn to the logic of deterrence. a year or two ago, putin said that the source of the decline of the soviet union was that that brezhnev was spending too much gdp on armaments. and that he cannot allow such a thing to happen, but does it on his own. russia spends 30% of its budget on armaments, this is unacceptable. one german military commander said that his internal clock told him that germany should be ready for war in

about five years. he knows something that we don't. in poland, time limits are considered when... georgia attacked georgia, threatened ukraine and attacked ukraine, threatens latvia and poland, and when russia threatens us, we threaten it we believe, so we must behave. this is serious, that's why we arm ourselves, and that's why nato putin will not win. the minister of defense of poland recently said that ukraine will not be in the european union until it resolves the issues surrounding the volyn tragedy. from the very beginning of the full-scale invasion, poland stood shoulder to shoulder with ukraine,

did a lot for all of us, and we are very grateful for that, and continues to help. why such statements, don't you have the feeling that relations between ukraine and poland have deteriorated now? i pay attention, fine, but what about then? i believe that now they are very kind, but as it happens between neighbors with a complicated history, there are always some cases that need to be resolved, i hope that everyone in ukraine understands what happened in volyn, it was purely ethnically defined as signs of cannibalism. our seymbokvali is called ethnic cleansing with signs of genocide. an order was issued to kill 100,000 poles. these poles have their families in poland and do not understand why they cannot start exhuming the bodies of our murdered relatives so that they can be honored and remembered in a christian way. it is not

against modern ukraine, it is for historical truth. and we were grateful. when poland is the most important logistical hub for the absolute majority of all western aid to ukraine. when we sheltered a million ukrainian refugees who receive polish payments, for example, for children, then ukraine could allow polish archaeologists.

and how far european law should reach from how quickly you will carry out reforms, because the negotiations actually mean that ukraine should adopt the practice of european legislation. that is, to translate several tens of thousands of pages of european legislation into ukrainian and to vote in the council. huge work. 35 chapters for negotiations, including complex ones such as agriculture or transport.

it will not be easy for everyone to win, but if we all do what we can, then, in my opinion, at the end of this decade, or at the beginning of the next, ukraine can enter the european union. ukraine. at the beginning, i will recall, mr. minister, at the beginning of our conversation, i mentioned that you, before then... to become the head of the ministry of foreign affairs, you went to ukraine to the front with tanks and drones for our military, and now, when you hold the position of minister, do you have time for such

visits to ukraine, for such visits to ukraine? my first visit to kyiv as a minister was just a day after my appointment, i plan to visit ukraine again next month for every year. of the eu conference, so i hope that we will be able to hold our next interview in kyiv. great, then we agreed, thank you very much, mr. minister, for the conversation, radoslav sikorsky was our guest, the minister of foreign affairs of poland, and we talked about ukraine, about it, about its prospects in the european union, about how much longer it might last. this war and whether europe stays with ukraine, stay with espresso, this is a project of bright people in dark times on the espresso tv channel for the 33rd anniversary of

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