10 days of independence and the viewers of espresso, as far as i know, had the opportunity to view it, it is still viewed on youtube, absolutely, absolutely, and simply, if we analyze the history of the 20th century, the actual ukrainian 20th century, the struggle of ukrainians and ukraine for their independence, we we will see that the war that started in the 14th year, which we now call the modern russian-ukrainian war, obviously started much... earlier in the 20th century, and it is already such a full-scale stage or a full-scale cycle, it was inevitable, and maybe we will touch on this issue somewhere in today 's conversation, this is a very important issue for understanding that you can never trust russia, you can never believe in any ephemeral peaces or truces that russia offers you, and uh, at the same time... you can’t

admire russia’s democracy, why am i talking about it, in fact, again, it appeals to our series, when we were preparing a series just about independence day, later about a referendum, there was once such a president in the russian federation, whose name was boris yeltsin, and him the world admired him because he was a democrat and all that, but if we look up the press of that time. the great democrat yeltsin at the beginning of 1992 already began to openly threaten the state of ukraine that if it does not get rid of its nuclear status, then he will make a preventive nuclear strike on ukraine, and this is the year 1992, well, that is, the great democrat yeltsin threatens the neighboring to an independent state that he will strike with nuclear weapons if it does not fulfill its obligations, and this is generally the whole history of russia and the history of russia. and her relations with

ukraine, that is, this fail state, which exists on the north-eastern border with us, they will never come to terms with our independence, they will never come to terms with our independence, so if you go a little ahead, here we are, you celebrated the 11th day of independence, this is actually this 11th day of independence, it will either happen in us, or, in my opinion, in my personal opinion, or we will cease to exist as such, eh, if the orange revolution, or the revolution of dignity, these were our days of independence and our victories, but we obviously could have lost in them, well, in fact, there were various factors that contributed to the fact that we could lose, but then we still had some perspective, well, that is, we can only stay in ukraine there, and we will be... i repeat, another fayla

state like belarus, yes, which, unfortunately, its self-proclaimed dictator is now who they are, but we won then, now the question is no longer whether we will remain as some ephemeral ukraine, in fact, the question is whether we will exist or we will not exist as such, and therefore, this day will either happen, it will truly be the day of independence and the day of our victory, or we will cease to exist. i very often analyze these things that happened in the 20th century, i used to work a lot in the sbu archive, in various positions, for about six years, my last position there, i was the deputy director of the sbu archive, the branch state archive of the sbu, and now during my treatment, because i am on medical leave due to a battle injury, and i remembered that... in a previous life before

full-scale invasion, i was a historian and i started working on a book now and again i distort the materials that i wrote before, i raise new ones, and again i raise documents of the nkvd, mgb, kgb, and they are very illustrative, because they show very clearly , what can happen to us if we lose, and this is conditionally, let's say, with an effective army of the ukrainian people's liberation army, or something like them. called the soviet special service with petlyurites and this is the vast majority of the personnel of the army, i mean now the armed forces of ukraine will be physically eliminated, even if not on the field battle, then later tracked down and eliminated by the special services, a large part of ukrainians who fought for independence in other ways are armed, i mean ukrainians in the body, who help, who volunteer, who donate, to whom ukraine hurts, they respectively... as supporters, as the soviets

called it the ukrainian counter-revolution, and here, that is, as supporters of, say, the ukrainian people's republic there, they will be condemned, sent to... assembly, well, there will actually be that part of the collaborators and that part of the pochekuns or zhduns who until still unfortunately exist in ukraine and still exist, moreover, they exist in different parts of ukraine, like here in lviv, where we are currently having a conversation or in odesa, or in kyiv, or in kharkiv, that is, i do not want to say that our outlook is sad, because we are now an independent country that has a fairly strong and professional army and... and that is helped by the west and we have a chance to win this war, just for us to win this war, this war has to become a people's war, it should not be a war of units, it should be a war of the majority, when i speak of a people's war, that is, it is not only that there is somewhere, you know,

as it unfortunately happened somewhere in 2016, the 17th, the 18th, when news from the ato zone, and then... girls somewhere in the east, they are fighting with someone there, in we are okay here, we have a life here, and i have nothing against a peaceful life, even though i am a soldier, but a peaceful life is a peaceful life, it is good, because you can actually go on vacation to a peaceful city where there is waiting for you, or your wife, or your lover, or your mother, and spend those 10 or 15 days there. leave, but this war has none go astray, and you should never forget about it, but in civilian life, in fact, when it will be popular, when the whole people will fight, then we will be able to win, and on february 24, 22, it looked like a popular one,

all then mobilized, how was your february 24 this day, absolutely, oh, i had a very funny one, well, i don't want to look like a clown. it was, of course, a non-comedy, not a funny day at all, but it started interestingly for me, that is, i had a premonition of something, and we had a meeting there in the evening with the director of the center for social and cultural affairs, we had to make a presentation of one's book, and i say: "listen, it's all good, what we're planning, but it seems to me that it will start from day to day, and i won't be at this event, but i convinced myself that nothing will start, well ok, and then i sat down in the middle of the night to finish the book, just then i was with my colleague from the institute of the history of ukraine." we were working on a book about the sredsk security police camp of the 1st sd, well, that is, it is a nazi camp on the territory of kyiv, which existed from 1941 to 1943 and where

a lot of people were actually murdered by the nazis, and we order of the university of jerusalem worked on a collection of documents, that's why i mentioned it for a reason, because putin. came to de-nazify us, and i was sitting, working on a collection of documents about the nazi camp, well , i don't know if he knew about it, i guess he didn't know, so i was working somewhere, it's true, until 1:40, and then i just- i simply fell asleep on the computer, but i fell asleep at the beginning of a full-scale sleepover, and i was woken up by my good friend from the states, bohdan gavrylyuk, he is from the organization of the defense of the four regions of ukraine, and he called me, i'm sad, i picked up the phone, i say what happened, he says, war, i say, i'm either asleep, or something seems to me, he says, war is in the news , go to the news, and then i went to ukrpravda, saw that a full-scale invasion had really begun, well, and then everything turned around, the military commander, the non-military commander, the territorial center

of procurement and social support of the tsk, better known, the distribution, the first, the first month is the defense of the ternopil airport, i was in... er calculation, anti-aircraft guns, banally speaking, to call the full full name, that is, after that, after that, this is a counter-sabotage company, later a reconnaissance company, and then already from the summer of 22 , this is a direct participation in the battle line, this is donbas, the north of donbas, the raisin direction, later the south of kharkiv. shchyna, then the kharkiv counteroffensive, then kupyansk, and now sumyshchyna. a long way from ternopil? 1200 km. you are currently recovering, and recovering from a wound,

a combat injury, yes, well, it is called a combat injury, and somehow, well, we like to joke with our comrades, somehow it happened, jumped and broke. well, it happens yes, just jumping like that, or still saving his life, we were conducting measures to demining positions, and unfortunately, we were. uh, you can use slang, she burned us, slang you can, yes, you can slang, okay, you can’t do anything else, we were burned by the orc, that, the orc hall, well, this is their reconnaissance drone, and after what, after when they saw us, mortar shelling started from their territory, and it was necessary to urgently take a position below the ground, there is such a position below the ground, and i was in this ammunition and unsuccessfully jumped somewhere from height... three meters, well, that’s how it turned out, that’s how i was, this injury is the first, some kind

of injury, this is already the second, the second, and all my luck is mine, all the same 82nds, because there was also 82 near kupyansk, but it hit the wall of the dugout above my head, but there was this one there, there was also, well , such scratches, as the boys say, uh, boys, who are with you, was it in someone from... one of them has a question for you, or such a question with a claim, as for a historian, they say, if you knew that there would be a war, why didn't you warn, or what did you historians not they warned us all, no, well, we warned, well, it’s true, but i’m asking if people ask such a question, i even, i can even drop the articles where we warned about it, no, the guys didn’t ask such a question, well, here, here, probably there are, well , i won't reveal any big secret now, there is a m... as i see it in ukrainian society, and among my brothers and

sisters, there is such a definite question somewhere, apparently, to the authorities, that is, that for a certain period it went according to the principle, like this hollywood movie with leo decaprio don't look up, that is , it was a dangerous tactic, really many did not believe what would happen, but everything indicated that, and our western partners indicated that there are no such questions about the boys, we are there, when someone has time and mood, then we talk about other historical issues, and what interested in people who are with you in the trenches, who are shoulder to shoulder with you, but they do not have a historical education, what they are interested in is history, it is from the history of ukraine, er, i apologize, well, it depends here, that is, someone is interested, well, my brother actually fights in the same platoon with me, he is a historian and graduated from it the faculty itself, as well as me, well, that is, we are with him as sometimes. we stick our tongues together, we can talk for a long time, but not only about history, there is also

about international relations and about other things, it depends on who has what request, well, that is, i have my platoon, he is interested in history, and when we are there it was more or less quiet at the positions, well near kupyansk it is always comparatively more or less quiet, but when you could have a little talk there at the sp, here he was there... wondering, tell me about that, tell me about then, tell me about that, and that's it then he even told this commander of the department in which i was, now he is my brother, because we are two commanders of the department, well, even then he was a brother, so he even told him, he says yes, i didn’t understand, but why i don’t have night duty together with the flapper, he says, why did you move me, well, i have a callsign flapper, yes, he says, why did you move me, and we even found out why he is like that, he says, why did you move me, we are with the flapper at night about the story we talk, and you moved me, he says no, no, put me back on duty with him, and well even... and this one is different, there are different stories, that is, mainly the guys have a request for this,

and here it is possible, i will even say more about the entire structure of the armed forces, that there is a request, a request for this, a request for this, it's just that one of the guys is interested in history, asks to explain something more, and the second point is that in 2022 i will remember it. the fact that there was a people's war, well, that is, really, when i came to the military headquarters on the 24th, tsk, there i also passed the military medical commission and so on for a long time, well, the very next day on the 25th i arrived on the 25th, i was supposed to be assigned to a brigade, and i saw already on the 25th how simply the doors, the doors of the tsk were being broken by volunteers, and then i somehow felt a very... already very, very great peace, that is, i saw, yes, then if

this number is such a number, then let's hold on, i know from my other friends there, who were also in kyiv, that is, when they saw the number of people who left, that is, from it people, businessmen, millionaires there to ordinary guys from borschahivka or from troeshchyna, that is, they all united and when they left, so did some such a kind of calm came, well, even though they were already quite close there. we know, they came quite close, there was also vorzel, later, irpin, later bucha is close to you, well , that is, or moschun or others, but there was a certain peace because of that and... and what i am leading this to, now and then there were volunteers . grounds for dismissal, they have all continued to serve for 2.5 years now,

mobilization is being carried out, is it necessary, obviously yes, or morally willful?... such an argument to oneself, does it exceed the one that was in the 22nd, i think no, i think it is even a little lower, and that is why the question of history must be raised, it must be raised with the personnel, this should actually be carried out by moral and psychological support, units of moral and psychological support, we have very cool examples of this, we have for for example, the third by storm brigade uhu, where our colleague, historian oleksandr alforov also works, he is just engaged in moral and psychological support, i know examples of brigades that are now introducing such and such units into themselves, and that is, well, such units exist, but they are not developed, that is, they they exist according to the internal instructions of the armed forces of ukraine, but they are not

developed to the extent they should be, that is, it is necessary to talk with the personnel why this war started... not on february 24, that is , i always correct the interlocutor, well, you probably do too that happened, that's when a war began, i say, friends, this war began on february 20 on the maidan of the 14th year, not this one with the shooting of the heavenly hundred, and not on february 24 of the 22nd year, yes, well, if we look deeper, then actually this war, as our colleague volodya vyatrovych says, it is our century-old war, it started at the beginning of the last century, simply. simply from the fact that such an entity as the ukrainian people's republic is actually ours, our truly ukrainian state, if you look at it from a historical point of view and we are talking about the cossacks, then yes, it is ukrainian, it is ukrainian national entities, but still they are considered proto-states, but we already have the entire state with all its attributes, but

it just stood across the throat, both white and red. but it was an orc and an orc and it did not last long, this was the ukrainian state of that time, and it existed due to several factors, firstly, there were some disagreements in the leadership, some were pulled there, others here, and secondly, the people themselves did not really want to go and fight because we didn't understand what they were fighting for, we still draw some... historical parallels from time to time, don't you is there a feeling that it resonates somewhere, or how are we different now, maybe we have done some work on mistakes? i think so, well, that is, in general, i am such an ardent optimist, and i think, and see, and know and believe that we have done the work on mistakes. the first point, which the unr did not have, we have, is the support of the event, the unr did not have this, that is

, they, they were actually there by themselves, and it was very difficult. if we take the same entente, that is, france and great britain, they supported the white guards, yes, if white, if denikin wanted to capture kyiv, because he explained to his allies that kyiv is a city of the russian empire, well, they said, okay, well , like, well, it’s there and now we have the support of the west, two, we have a really strong army, that is we have the armed forces of ukraine, not only the armed forces. of ukraine, i do not want to offend my brothers and sisters of the defense forces of ukraine, that is, because this is the national guard, this is the state border service, this is also the security service of ukraine, the national police of the national security service of ukraine, the national security service of ukraine, and we have really strong defense forces of ukraine, really strong, armed, high-quality, maybe not all units are there to the end, but in the end

, work on it is going on. we have, in the vast majority... i won't talk about 100% there, but we have in the vast majority of the population the awareness that they are ukrainians, they have the state of ukraine, and so to these ee orks, and well, okay, here are russians, and russians, they don’t want here, and they don’t want to see or hear them, we don’t need their history, culture, well, we can still talk about it, because not everyone, unfortunately, yet ... they are so convinced of this, but, that is we have a lot of winning things, we have a strong army, we have the awareness of ukrainians that they are ukrainians, they need this state, and we have the support of the west, unfortunately, in the ukrainian people's republic of ukraine all of this did not happen, that is , there really was the propaganda of the bolsheviks worked very well there, and the power was divided there, remember how we worked, like

vynnychenko, sometimes he ran away, then he returned to kyiv, only later, when konovalts' snipers defended poltava there, he did stay in kyiv, and well, but before that , i wanted to run away several times, and i wanted to run away packed, there were such things, now, well, now we have much more prospects and much more opportunities to defend ourselves. this is your state and your right to exist, er, our conversation is coming to an end a little bit, i will tell one more such moment from your biography, if you google the name volodymyr birchak, it gives such information that he was born in 1881 , i have preserved it very well, but your picture, and it says that you are a ukrainian writer, a literary critic, a soldier of the ukrainian sich riflemen, eh... this is a relative, this is a relative, but in him, well, first of all, that he is a distant relative, that is, i researched his biography, i have an archival and investigative file, because he was once

detained in was detained in prague, then imprisoned by the nkvd, but we have him , besides the fact that we are relatives, he and i have several things in common, he is a soldier of the ukrainian armed forces, i am a soldier of the armed forces of ukraine, in principle two two two formations that fight for the freedom and independence of ukraine. he, like me, used to be an archaeologist, he's actually a cooler archaeologist than i am, although i also did archeology, well, i'm not a writer, i am actually a historian, although he is also a historian, as it is, and we also have similarities, that we have the same ears, eh, i really hope that his life ended tragically, tragically, that is, a moscow boot , happened and shortened the life of a person who could have done something for this country, i really want you to succeed in realizing all those plans that you still have, i know that you want to, that you

are actually finishing this book right now, yes, and what it will be about, announce it, well, it’s actually a book, it’s stories from the archives of the kgb, that is, it ukrainian 20th century, and it is what i... maybe yes, maybe yes, that is, it is from the way ukrainian nationalists cooperated with the british mi-6 special service, went through special forces training and were dropped on landing planes on the territory of ukraine. maybe someone doesn't know much about this, before the participation of jews in the ukrainian rebel army, so that one of them was actually a political consultant to the chief commander of the upa, and many such things about which we... either don't know enough or know little, or can already talk about some plans when this book will appear i think it's still too early, it will all depend on how quickly i can

work on vacation in the state of health i'm in now. ee, and when the vacation ends in september and further back, front, front. volodya, thank you for this conversation, thank you for what you do both on the battlefield and on the battlefield. in such an ideological one, you return to people the historical truth, of which you were the editor, and you can, it was excluded, i take part in the discussions, even, my god, how do you manage to do everything, it happens, eh, dear friends, our guest was volodymyr birchak, sergeant of the armed forces of ukraine, historian, archivist, head of academic programs of the center for the study of the liberation movement, and editor of historical truth, and we spoke with him. about history and about the war and how history is, how to make sure that the history of our previous losses does not repeat itself, stay with

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