recognized norm, he won't be able to, it won't happen , so what should you do if you understand that it won't happen, calm down and agree on something, at least tactically, he doesn't do it, he pretends that he doesn't notice it all the time , well, he doesn't notice, so he needs to go on, he goes on, well, what is left for the west to do, move the red lines, the west will do it all the time, that's why he is always hoping that putin will come to his senses, well, he won't come to his senses here. maybe shamenets is here, maybe shamenets is here, you don’t understand, that is, putin, putin is waiting for the west will stop, and the west also has no opportunity to stop, so there will be more planes, sooner or later the decision that the president of the czech republic, peter pavel, spoke about will be made. ukraine will be accepted into nato without the occupied territories. but what about, for example, the hot phase of the war and the situation on the front line, because we understand the current situation.

situation, it does not predict frost, here i am talking about it, but cold, today does not predict, but at some point it can predict, because there can be a definition, determination of both sides, there may be a temporary ceasefire, which will be carried out by countries such as qatar, india and switzerland, for example, let's say, and putin will then say that he was deceived, he is being deceived all the time, he was deceived in minsk then by angela merkel with françois hollande, then he is cheated on a rendramody with the emir of qatar by them. they also deceive, because putin's deception is when things don't happen the way he wants, you know, but he agrees to it, due to certain reasons, because he is being pressured, and then he says no, well, we agreed on something else, well, relatively speaking, putin's fantasy about the euro-atlantic community, which supposedly promised not to expand to the east, yes, yes, yes, everyone says that it's a lie, it didn't happen, well , but for him you very correctly brought up this model of thinking, yes, he says, well, i was... zeroed,

well, come on, and no one agreed about it at the time, come on, well, so it’s the same, again , this is pushkin, it is not difficult to deceive me, because i myself want to be deceived, this is the relationship between people in russia, i think that this is absolutely accurate formula, after all, there is no need to doubt that pushkin is not putin, he knew russian psychology better than you and i, he is , after all, the russian national poet, i do not... remember such and such a formulation in world literature, when a man asks a woman to cheat on him, because he wants to be cheated on, because he has no other choice, he needs to be cheated on, so that he does some idiotic act, it would not be he who is guilty, but she, because he is happy to this, he needs it, putin, that's what he is treats the event as pushkin's hero treats this woman in some high society salon.

yes, well, but the key story is how we will do it, as far as we have the strength, that is, our intra-ukrainian concept of what is called, i don’t know, a modern national idea, it is already maturing, that is, it has been formulated and we are starting to go, so we understand, that relations will be quite difficult now, that is, tactical processes, there are practical processes when we talk, for example, about the case of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, and not only about it will go on, but we see that it has gradually become menstruation. what used to be called nationalism, i.e. radical nationalism, and now that's all, it's not just what is written in the legislation, it's already the people who profess such and such views, they sit, for example, in offices, it is far from possible in everyone, but they sit, they are generals, they sit in the headquarters of special services, they plan operations, and they are ready to fight further and defend those values ​​about which... which

, well, 10 years ago, someone could say so to speak, with caution, because it can, so to speak, split society or not be perceived in the sociological dimension, and this, and this is also a fairly simple answer to this question, and ukrainian society and the state also have to endure red lines , hoping that russia is shamenets, this also did not happen immediately, you know, we will carry out decommunization in the 14th year, stop... please, because you are destroying our common, uh, heritage, no, we are moving on, well, you know, in this situation we introduce language quotas, we adopt a law on language, stop, please, you see how everything, how our people are changing, no, we are moving on, well, then we will carry out de-russification, we will not have monuments to pushkina and lermantov streets, you understand that you are completely you are destroying our common cultural space, even to a depth of 200-300 meters there.

we will kill, and those whom we do not kill, we will drive them through the filtration camps, so to speak, and we will force them to hand in pushkin and lermantov in these filtration goods, to read borodino, well, by the way, it is good, as god's will dictated , would not give moscow, by the way, yes, they didn't give back the bozh, if it wasn't god's will, on the other hand, it's also, well, we understand that this is a very serious parallel, yes, because... napoleon took moscow, took it and burned it. i took it and burned it, and so to speak, i think that not a single architectural monument was damaged, relatively speaking, well, i'm joking, but it is about the fact that there is a so-called depth of strategic damage and strategic, strategic stability,

and we understand that in the case of kurshchyna, it 's not even a court, it's the city of kurchatov, it's kursk, that is, kursk is about symbols, it about the regional center, and the city. kurchatov, this is about the as. yes, yes. and if there were such a symmetrical situation, well, first of all, it would very, extremely strongly excite our european and american friends, yes, because they would understand that this is not just aggression against ukraine. that is, it is the readiness of ukraine to stop the enemy by all possible means. of course, we understand that no one would have resorted to this or that unconventional thing, that is, like ... forceful seizure, the russians forcibly seized power plants, trying to cause a shock in the west, yes, that is, it is not only the zaporizhia nuclear plant, it was chernobyl, that is, when they shoot at a nuclear plant, brussels is extremely worried, and not only in brussels, but i also

worry when something like this happens, i understand, but just again, well, there is an art of desire, art is possible, and it is what it is, this art is possible, in any case... it is absolutely obvious that the very raid on kurtshchyna is the transfer of red lines, they continue be transferred, that's it too, now the war is on russian territory federations, this is also a call to calm down, because you see, it may be so, and then there may be some kind of offensive in the korchatov region at some point, despite the russian fortifications, well, many were fortified, ukrainian troops were fortified in avdiivka, where avdiivka is now, for sure so the russian troops can strengthen themselves in kurchatov, and then you'. that they are not able to work for a long time and boringly, the french built the majino line like this, and then it turned out that it can be bypassed, for example, here is a great example, or here is the story with the law on the prohibition of churches that have centers management in moscow, well, for a very long time

they also pretended that this is how it should be, we can’t do anything with this church if there are so many parishioners in it, well, it turned out that we can, that this is... another red line , which is moving, will continue to do so. the russians are burying everything that connected them with ukraine with their own hands. well, it’s not for nothing that we mentioned, here we go back to the history of the gkchp, at one time this communist surge accelerated the dismantling of the communist system, and now you are absolutely right that here is russian stupidity, bloodthirstiness, gluttony , it causes the fact that in... ukraine has the opportunity to very quickly implement, well, the necessary internal policy. antin, i'll tell you honestly, if it weren't for vladimir putin, not only would i not have seen all that we 're seeing now in terms of cultural, humanitarian, language policy, etc.,

but you too would have did not see his life. we would live in a policy of constant compromises and be forced to defend our cultural, linguistic and historical interests there. in the conditions of the eternal a compromise with a large part of society, which would say: "listen, we live here , we are not russia, but we have russian culture, we love philip kirkorov and yosyp kobzon, what are you messing with here, we don't want to listen to your village singers, watching your village performances and speaking in your secondary language is a big language, well, we have heard it since recently, back in the 19th year, that is, if the collective was one or another lithuanian character, yes, who would be ready to go in constant compromise with by the russians, and the russians were ready for this compromise, yes, this is also very important, that is, it would be a model of continuation of what was called there, i don’t know, the ukrainian soviet socialist republic with all the relevant

attributes, if the president of russia was viktor chornomyrden, and the president leonid kuchma would remain in ukraine, whether volodymyr lytvyn or serhiy tegibko became there after that, this ukrainian soviet socialist republic could even stand in for the euros... and that would be very pleasing to friedman aven and everyone to other russian oligarchs who would have business here, well, hungary, for example, hungary was an example, and it was just an ideal hungary and we only spoke with horror. listen, but the use of the ukrainian language has already accelerated to five or six regions, so what, but we are in the european union, we live wonderfully, we are developing here, russia gives us cheap gas, uh, friedman finances alphajazz, you can even poems about it would be patriotic to write, i would write, i would even write in the ukrainian language, but by the way, the key is history, that is, in principle, in history ukraine has never had such a great peak of state-building, now, that is , a full-fledged and multifaceted one, that is, i tried, well, what period during hetman mezepa,

well, i am not sure, during the time of the ukrainian people's republic, no, because it is a short period, yes, that is, there was an outbreak powerful, but the period was short, kyiv voted for the so-called russian bloc in the elections to the constituent assembly, during the time of our great hetmans , it didn't either, well, because the moscow church felt for khmelnytsky, in principle, in unity. spacious, because even then there was ukrainian the orthodox church in the union with constantinople, but, but, that is, the moscow church was gaining ground, of course, and they controlled constantinople. so, in this regard , summing up the results of our conversation, we can say that this great tragedy, which you and i are going through, and which we remember even today on this festive day, led to such changes in the state system of ukraine, which cannot be canceled by any other processes. and this is what we should remember, but this is what our blood is shed for compatriots, of course it would be better if everything were

peaceful, but we do not choose historical eras, we will return literally a few minutes before our conversation with ten borkovsky, so please stay with us on the espresso tv channel, and now there is a small pause. verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in the new two. family format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you you can express your opinion on the evil of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhii rudenko, from tuesday to friday from 8 to 10 p.m. vasyl winter's big broadcast, two hours of air time. two hours of your time, two hours to learn about the war and what the world is like, two hours to

keep up with economic and sports news, two hours in the company of your favorite presenters, presenters who have become kind to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, the project for smart and caring people, in the evening for espresso. saturday political club on espresso air, antsin borkovskyi, vitaly portnikov, well, what, we are talking about the most important thing, that is, of course, we are talking in the context of what we are celebrating today, the day of ukrainian independence, it is not just about a calendar moment, not just about three dozen years, not even about, so to speak, the peak of ukrainian statehood and the triumph of ukrainians. we are also talking about certain specific processes, we talked about politics,

we will talk about politics, but now there are more the question of the church, it is generally about civilizations, the civilizational dimension, that is, right now , history is happening literally before our eyes, we are trying to unravel the whole layers of imperial policy, imperial layers, because the imperial policy of russia is not only about soldiers, not only about tanks, about... cavalry and the capture of certain nations by force, it is also about their cultural and religious colonization, that is, it is such a very difficult moment, and moscow is like the third rome in quotation marks, of course, it is, this concept was formed over the course of a century , it is the cornerstone for the functioning of russia, and without ukraine they could not build it, yes, because where the baptism of muscovy took place in ukraine, they cannot. to experience this here, because the prince of kyiv baptized

his people, because yes, not moscow, and not even volodymyr suzdal, and not even novgorod, and not even novgorod, yes, well, this is a kiev prince, he could be a novgorod prince, as the prince would have wanted something, but he was from kyiv, in fact, well , let's start from the fact, yes, but there is a simple thing here, of course, russian orthodox the church is, i would say, the most effective instrument of russification. of all this space, and it used the kyiv metropolis as a part of this, of its approach, and the kyiv metropolis was needed precisely as an element of the russification of everything. because, strangely enough, the kyiv metropolitanate, from the point of view of church efficiency, was much more capable and capable of some kind of work with people than the moscow patriarchate, this is one moment, and another moment, this process lasted for centuries, that is, certain people cared about certain values ​​and were short ways to their hearts and

explanations were found, i.e. these rituals, they entered into life, well, i don’t know, conventionally speaking, these scarves on their heads, i.e. we don’t let a woman in without her and so on, there are some local ones or others, i would like to remind you of one more important thing, that the ukrainian peoples, this must also be realized, the population of the modern country all this time, even the soviet ones, has not lost its connection with the church, as it happened with russia, with the russian people, because in russia, this loss occurred as a result of the reforms of patriarch nikan, the appearance of the old believer church, all this rebellion . mass suicides of representatives of the old believers, of course, that is why, in general , the russian people are a people who broke with the traditional church, real believers in russia, this is precisely the old believers, we are not

talking about archaism, about archaic approaches, but these are people who believe in churched, as they like to say in church, and... other people, they are opportunists, because they did not believe in it, they simply went there because the authorities said so, the authorities and faith did not equate it to church to work, conditionally so , for work and for survival, and by the way, you know what the old believers did in ukraine after 2022, here we have the old believer church, the way they behaved in contrast to the uoc of the moscow patriarchate, they said that they cannot have no religious center. in moscow immediately refused this center, declared that they are an independent religious community, and now the question is, who can they turn to so that they have a metropolitan to whom they can turn for their sacraments there, a metropolitan in braille in in romania, the metropolitanate of bilokreinitsa was transferred, as you know, after

the soviet occupation of bessarabia, it was also transferred to bukovina to... the romanian city of brailo, and they turned to him, by the way, this is the real old believer metropolitan, the one in moscow , it is subordinate, and this is the metropolis that has existed since the time when the old obljats ​​in bila kryanytsia, this village in the territory of the chernivtsi region of modern ukraine, created a hierarchy for themselves and everything, that is , it turned out that it could be done that way, and nothing came of it happens if you have the issue is the preservation of the community and faith, the old believers, this is the main issue for them, by the way, ethnic russians, unlike the uoc and the mp, and this is the main thing for them, they have carried it through the centuries, they need to preserve the community and faith, and not a religious center, not moscow, and they did it, they know very well that they can easily do whatever they want, besides, you have already touched on the subject of the old believers, i will just say briefly, yes, that is, that in ukraine they were hiding

from russian persecution, and key centers, for example, of the same book printing, they were well... and the territory of ukraine, as even, that is, there was a different climate, that is, the same wedges, yes, that is, the well-known center of the old rites, well, this is severshchyna, it is now approximately where our glorious fighters are in kurshchyna, this is in this direction, so i always want to really ask the hierarchs of the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, what do you need, checkers or go, if you need real grace. real communication with world orthodoxy, and you too here is such a political situation, well, the church with which you had a canonical connection, it turned out to be a supporter of war, well , from your point of view, it probably has sacraments, grace, all this, but, well, the problem is that this church supports the destruction of your flock, well , such a moment is historical, but here is the great

world orthodoxy, next to the patriarch of constantinople, who gave thomas to our country. do not want simply because they believe that without moscow there is no grace, no faith, no grace, no salvation, then there is question, where do they want to save themselves now? or after all, when neither patriarch kirill nor patriarch putin will be with them anymore? but here is an interesting moment, it is possible that a big global internal change will take place, well, i believe. to the fact that part of the clergy of the uocmp, yes, it will want to go, for example, to the orthodox church in ukraine, we remember our time under metropolitan volodymyr, there were

much more such people, so the current head of the uocmp, well, his officers are a little different , i also think that they need anyway to go somewhere, to the orthodox church of ukraine, to some orthodox churches. of other european countries that may be on the borders with ukraine, if they so much do not want communication with the orthodox church of ukraine, with the ecumenical patriarchate, however, the only thing i can tell these people is what they were told from the beginning of the restoration, not even ukrainian independence, and ukrainian civilization on these lands, and by the way, with these words we can completely calmly end our conversation today, away from moscow. thank you for that were with us on this broadcast and we congratulate you on the independence day of ukraine. victory and peace

to you, friends, good luck. glory to ukraine, dear tv viewers, on espresso tv channel, west studio program. first of all, let me congratulate you on the greatest ukrainian holiday, independence day. it's not about a calendar date, it 's not just a red dot on our calendar, it's about a holiday in the literal sense of pouring the blood of our soldiers and our civilians, all those who gave their lives for our ukrainian independence, so we remember them my colleagues prepared. many important and interesting and useful conversations, both with people who represent both the political spectrum and the sphere of culture and not only, but i would like to talk about polish-ukrainian relations:

in 2022, poland helped us a lot, we remember we appreciate this moment, but we understand that we have a lot of challenges, caused by the so-called difficult polish-ukrainian affairs, so we will talk about this and other things. with my current guest marcin bosatsky, the chairman polish-ukrainian parliamentary group, deputy of the polish diet. greetings, mr. posle. thank you very much, i am pleased, thank you for the opportunity to be here and talk with you, to be here with you and talk. we understand, we have a lot of questions related to polish-ukrainian affairs, but the most important matter is the one that hangs in our hearts. across the continent, this is russian aggression against ukraine, and perhaps not only against ukraine. we also see that the russians are gathering their forces, and this applies not only to the sphere

related to the army and weapons. it a huge challenge for the entire continent. but they found that ukraine, being in mortal danger, destroyed, hit, let's say, not yet in the heart of the russian enemy, but on the territory of the former chernihiv voivodeship, now it sounds like the kursk region. that the courage of the ukrainian people is appreciated

all over the world, of course, except for russia and its allies, but here i must tell you that i believe that the reaction to your kursk offensive two years ago, 2.5 years ago, would have been radically different, kursk , dwa lata temu, dwa i pół roku temu, dwa lata temu byłaby biłaby... and this is a positive development of the situation, that at this moment the americans, germans, and french are saying: ukraine can defend itself against russian aggression, as it deems necessary. i am convinced that even two years ago, these comments from at least some of the western allies would have been more panicked and more cautious, and in my opinion, this is a good evolution of the position of the west, this kurdish offensive has not changed anything. i think the west has finally...understood that ukraine can and should defend itself by all possible means before that terrible and shameful aggression of putin, as i say, this is a good evolution in the right

direction. are there, for example, ukraine's restrictions on the use of weapons, atakams and so on, are they still there, are they, is everything perfect, not perfect, but really, as we recall the first months after february 2022, even such loyal allies as the british said: we will give ukraine weapons for defense, but now no one says so, you get, finally get, but you get f-16, powerful tanks, powerful missile weapons.

large-scale russian aggression. this means that polish political elites united around the most important. support. quick support for ukraine. while some documents may have been entered somewhere in brussels, poland had already given the green light to polish tanks. and it was very important, it is not only about tanks, but also about rifles and so on. but we see that this is not a military operation. this is not a short war. this is an old, long, bloody war that has long prospects. actually, i would like to ask if there is a feeling of the governing elite of poland, this is primarily about the prime minister tusk, but not only about him, is there an awareness that at some point poland will simply be obliged to respond to one of the next russian provocations. of course, we understand that those rockets that once flew into polish territory may have been an accident, or maybe not. maybe it was some kind of, i don't know, study of poland's reaction, and at

some point, maybe someone in warsaw... would have to give the order. a few difficult problems: firstly, a few difficult moments: firstly, i was already in the lviv service in the garrison church and saw the service for the three fallen ukrainian heroes, i see that it looks like lviv is functioning and living normally, but this war is visible, i had a conversation with mayor sadov, i am a guest of mykola knyazhytskyi. of the ukrainian-polish parliamentary group, and it is noticeable that the entire society, the entire ukrainian people, involved in this war, firstly, secondly, we are already part of putin's operation against the west, primarily through the operation of transferring migrants, often very aggressive migrants trained by lukashenka's kgb the polish-belarusian border, and this pressure has been going on for almost three years, it is usually directed at latvia and lithuania, but

the most. there is also in poland. this spring , the first polish soldier wounded by a knife on that border died. we have now sent a significant force of the army and police there, and we have managed to reduce the number of those attacks, but they continue. therefore, poland's awareness that it is part of the west's conflict with putin and his subordinate lukashenka is absolute. if we are talking about rockets that repeatedly fell on lviv or yavoriv, ​​but... it is not only poland's decision that we will try to bring them down. secondly, they stay on the territory of poland for a very short time. it is not 10 minutes, but 30, 40, 50 seconds. therefore , even technically, it is not easy to hit them on the territory of poland. remember also, if it is about the goals of our and your

greatest. that is, the united states, those goals are twofold: firstly, how to help ukraine as soon as possible so that it wins the war with russia, and here i will emphasize once again: the whole world, the whole western world, the civilized world, full of great respect and honor to the ukrainian military and the ukrainian people, but the second goal of the americans is to not directly involve america or the north atlantic alliance in a war with russia, as long as this...