er, you announce this meeting as the protection of national interests, then why is the state, er, border service not present, no, customs, just the head of the border service was present, and why is the customs service not present, because the partners are american, in particular, the same peni pritzker demanded the immediate transfer of the entire customs service to a digital... format, and it is precisely through the customs service that several hundred billion hryvnias are flowing out, which are necessary for defense, but it was emphasized that half of apple products in ukraine, gray, half of household appliances, which is sold in stores, it is gray, it is imported according to gray schemes, it, that is , isn't it the protection of national interests. if

we are talking about how to stop the escape of deputies from the servant of the people faction, then i remember that since the middle of the 22nd year, the chairman of the verkhovna rada has had at least 15 statements about the termination of parliamentary powers and withdrawal from the servant of the people faction, the main thing is that this statement about the conclusion of deputies' powers, and for some reason the faction and the chairman of the verkhovna rada do not release these people. they are political serfs, so i am i think that in the future there will be more and more destruction, we watched the last vote, for example, an important and sensitive one for society, it was about the banning of religious organizations centered in the country of the aggressor, and there, for example, 175 deputies voted for the law from the servants of the people, this and is their approximate volume of monoballs. there is no more, mr. volodymyr,

one more, small remark by zelenskyi about oleg tatarov, a person about whom he was constantly told during the five years of his presidency, today president zelenskyi said that he apparently participated in elimination of chechens in the capital at the beginning of a full-scale invasion, let's listen to a small fragment. i didn't want to say it, the united states and everyone knows it, oleg tatar. together with vasyl malyuk, they killed chechens in ukraine, in kyiv, while you were not here, it is not enough to drive him out, to drive him out so that he will be killed by the russians, if possible, very briefly, please tell me what zelensky wanted to say, well, as far as i remember , they fired trofimov, such a uoc lobbyist. they did not

kill the russians, tatarov is also a russian lobbyist interests, just like trofimov, so that's all, it seems to me that zelensky, i spoke about the reflexivity of his behavior, the impression is that he lives in a parallel reality, and he simply, well, let's say, includes the data that is uploaded to him at the last second before the press conference, but the fact that he is nervous... and rude to journalists is evidence that this person is not in his place, and it's time to think about how to change this person to a more professional one, yes, and war does not change it, this is the most important conclusion, at least it is possible to do, thank you, mr. volodymyr, for the conversation, it was volodymyr tsibulko, a political expert and former people's deputy of ukraine, friends, throughout our broadcast we conduct a survey, we ask you about the following: have you encountered hostile propaganda on the telegram platform, previous... survey results 63% yes,

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the second part is live on the tv channel. program verdict, my name is serhii rudenko, and for the next 45 minutes we will talk about the following. daily missile terror. russia is trying to destroy the energy system of ukraine. how to protect yourself from a total blackout and avoid a humanitarian disaster? social networks under the control of the kremlin. twitter and telegram were in the center. attention of the world public due to russian influences. why the durov case caused hysteria in moscow. pro-russian deputies in the verkhovna rada. the leadership of the parliament disowns artem dmytruk's escape. why does the process of self-revelation

in power not work? friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are now. see us there please subscribe to our pages and also take part in our survey, today we ask you about whether you have encountered hostile propaganda on the telegram platform, yes, no, uh, and if you have your own opinion, please leave it in the comments below this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote for the numbers if you have encountered hostile propaganda on telegram 0800 211 381 or 0800 2 11382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio, they are people's deputies of ukraine, viktoria syumar, people's deputy of ukraine from european solidarity, member

of the parliamentary committee on anti-corruption policy. mrs. victoria, i congratulate you. thank you for being with us today. mykyta poturaev, people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people, chairman of the parliamentary committee on humanitarian issues of the osce parliamentary assembly. mr. nikita, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. good evening. and alexei kucherenko, people's deputy of ukraine, first deputy chairman of the parliamentary committee on energy and housing and communal affairs. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening, thank you. well, first things first, ladies and gentlemen, as we are asking our viewers and viewers about the telegram platform. frames and after durov, pavel durov , the founder and owner of this platform, was arrested in france, detained in france, we ask our tv viewers whether they would encounter hostile propaganda in telegram, i will ask you too, although

it seems to me that this is a rhetorical question for you so precisely, because you work professionally with information and have seen exactly how the enemy uses this platform, and yet let's ... in the blitz format, let's try to give the answer to this question, ms. victoria, i think these are, you know, the harshest examples of enemy propaganda that can be found in the telegram, it is not... only there is the live broadcast of solovyov, which, by the way, he does in the telegram itself, he hasn't been there in youtube for a long time, but he has broadcasts and studios daily, but unfortunately, there is a lot of such propaganda, which directly refers to the cruel treatment of ukrainian prisoners of war, in particular, therefore, during the war, it is an extremely serious tool of russia in the war against ukraine. ms. and mr. myka. please, thank you, i did not come across it, because i

demolished this kremlin sink in the 19th year, i watched for exactly two months what was happening there, i realized that it was a kremlin sink, i demolished no one else, i never used it, and why i advise everyone, and i am surprised only by the fact that many colleagues, i am not i will now ask my colleagues, who are on the air with me now, whether they have telegram installed. surprised only by the fact that many colleagues, both from the legislative power and from the executive power and from other powers of all kinds, did not do the same, did not carry the telegram and did not address the citizens, as i addressed, with with a persistent request with an explanation that this poison must be abandoned, but of course i saw and still see numerous detailed monitorings, so i know what is happening there, i myself... shit, i'm sorry, i haven't used it since 19 . thank you, mr. nikita, mr. oleksiy, you

use the telegram channel, well, i can say that i use the telegram channel, i have no state secrets, but i monitor the information field in telegram, please, there is a lot of interesting, operational, especially if i need, for example, to quickly find out about the same attacks, then definitely telegram is instant. it's just that you have to read what you want to read, and not read it casually, because i don't really understand something, you know, to find crap in the world, well wishes, please, you will find everywhere, just why read it and all, although i will tell you honestly, in order to understand what is in the heads of the russian scoundrels, i sometimes look there that what this alcoholic, this as his alcoholic, and the king, both. even tsarev is the same, you see, i even read it, i need to understand what

the enemy breathes and what is in his head, and i don’t see anything negative in this, well, that’s because, because i understand , that the russians now, as they say on galicians are surprised by the fact that durov was detained in france, he is accused there of the fact that he did not want to moderate the content, he did not want to cooperate with the french. and did not want to disclose information about users suspected of distributing drugs, child pornography, and fraud, it is obvious that it is important for russians to extend a hand to the fool, and even russian foreign minister sergey lavrov says that the arrest of durov proved that the telegram messenger developed is reliable a protected platform, well he didn't just add here that for... and the russians, he is safe and secure, now that the fool has been taken away, obviously on someone's advice, and is being threatened

with terrible punishment, apparently hoping to somehow get access to the encryption codes, now this has already been proven by the actions of the french, that telegram is a really reliable and popular network, well, lavrov sent such a greeting to durov and said that pasha, hold on, don’t give anything away there, because many russians use this platform, and it was hysterical, but i read in... among the warlords, for they also use, among those who fight against ukraine, ms. victoria, you went through the banning of two russian social networks, vkontakte and classmates, at that time too, well, there was a great disturbance in ukrainian society, there was much more, there was no big war then, but you went through this procedure of disconnecting ukrainians from two social networks, how can you pass by... from this telegram story, given the fact that it is one that can be used by

russian special services, it is used by russian special services, that, that's the whole point, i think, this story with the detention of durov, she just so vividly shed light on what is happening, and the hysteria of the russian military that he is the head of communications of the svo and broadcasts on... russian television that the main guidance of missiles on the concentration of the ukrainian military is carried out by with the help of a telegram, all this has become quite a secret, in ukraine it is simply not... comfortable to talk about it, because we have an illusion among many politicians that they control this russian messenger, but i emphasize, this is just an illusion, i have never created my telegram channel, i can only monitor what is happening there on some devices of others, i understand very well how

this tool works, how convenient it is, it is true, and i am very sorry that it is used by the ukrainian special services and they are really his ... are used, and they throw a lot of information there into the monitoring channels, because it is supposedly convenient, i repeat, it is not really safe, it poses a threat, we really went through, we have this experience with the ban on vkontakte, vkontakte is the creator of this social network, yes itself pavlo durov, and you know, these russian tools work there as well, which make social networks such as vkontakte and telegram attractive to various propagandists of various stripes. because the principle of anonymity really works there, you don’t know who writes this or that content, in fact it is convenient for those who want to manipulate readers and who want to manipulate the masses, there is no regulation, that is, you can throw any fake there, and there are closed with codes, access to a lot of information, and this is simply

used, you know, by people who distribute from child pornography there to... drug trafficking or other things, my acquaintances in germany said: listen, telegram has become so popular in your country because of the news, as a news resource, here, here, all drugs are bought through telegram, and this has become a problem for of europe, and that is why the french law enforcement system is ready to present, to put it bluntly, these stupid accusations, i know, i don't want to go into some conspiracy theories here, as there are many politicians here, the fact remains the fact, there are a lot of cryptocurrencies, the darknet, there many processes is actually carried out through telegram, because, i repeat, the tools of the absence of any regulation are used, and this is a big problem, we must talk about the fact that in a civilized society the state must have access to the regulation of social networks, and if we

have the opportunity , i will simply show how it is happening now on the example of many states and the united states, for example that one. which actually settled the instagram scandal a week ago, when instagram agreed to the state's terms of content regulation. thank you, ms. victoria, mr. mykyta, will your parliamentary committee initiate restrictions on the work of telegram in ukraine? well, first of all, we have mykola knyazhytskyi's draft law, it was supported by quite a few deputies from different factions of the groups. i believe that... that this bill is too soft, we discussed it with mykola knyazhytskyi today, we will consider it at the committee on thursday, i will insist that we develop the parliamentary version, because not because mykola knyazhytskyi is so liberal about the telegram, by no means, just him drafted the draft law a little earlier, when certain

problems had not yet become so acute and were not so obvious, i believe that we need tougher solutions there. and so i will propose that the committee agree to develop the so-called committee text, where all of us together, all members of the committee, or almost all of us, will speak with co-authors, and make the text much more rigid and effective, although, if there will be, i don't know there , well, a proposal from the society that we go there in a more liberal, softer way, which i personally agree with. totally disagree, then we can really there to further promote the law of mykola liondovich, he is soft. in my opinion, too soft. but again, this is not the fault of mykola kniazhivskyi. it's just that it was created in a different time, a little earlier. therefore, yes, we are ready, and i am personally working on it, and we

are involving experts in this work. but i absolutely do not agree with the fact that we have some... there are options, there are no options, we have the option to do nothing and endure, to endure further, or to block such networks strictly, strictly simply and by the way, this is a problem not only with by telegram, and i want to say, when this is again, this is not an accusation, it is just a statement of fact for everyone that... everyone who has this app on their phone and uses it, even if they do not have their own channel, then everyone, by their presence there, supports this... obviously a criminal ecosystem, just because you're there, the fact that you don't have channels doesn't mean anything, you're

like that, every person that's there, it's boosting his rating because it's so called organics, and there are ukrainian ones, which means that politicians come out, yes, there are some ukrainian journalists, and it is not necessary to blame the authorities for being there, because there are representatives of the ukrainian media there, the most... who run their channels there, this is all the promotion of the development of this network that works against ukraine, where thousands of channels are brought to the crossroads every day with other networks of the same kind without moderation, subversive operations against our country during the war, and every ukrainian who is there helps russia to fight for... the destruction of their own state, that's what is happening, i'm not going to be correct, i'm saying how is, each who has it, this messenger is helping russia

to defeat its own state and its own country, this is what is happening, and there is no need, and there is no need for illusions, according to you, according to your conclusion, millions of ukrainians are helping the russians to win, and unfortunately, it is our fault that we did not deal with this before. tougher, because there were only isolated voices, experts, investigators, whom no one wanted to hear, and what 's more, we were also mocked, and still continue to be mocked, well, let's continue to laugh, let's, no, laugh at no one will be you, the simple question is that when a large network of the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate operates in ukraine, and only now have we made a decision, and in 9 months we will deal with this network, and it also looks very strange , you know, on the one hand, you can say that everyone who has a smartphone and

there is telegram is a criminal and supports russia, despite the fact that there is a live network that works in ukraine, and we say, no, well, we will give them a chance there, but from there on, let them figure out somehow whether they are ukrainian orthodox aren't ukrainians, although there is a man at the head of this orthodox church, the holy synod of the russian orthodox church is included, well, this is also some kind of madness, i'm sorry, because national security, mr. serhiy, i certainly don't need to reproach that we didn't fight enough with the russian orthodox church, however, certainly not to me and not to my colleagues from the committee, i want to, but i want to, but i want to emphasize the fact that you can not go to the moscow priests in the church, but... have a moscow apka in your pocket, i don't know which is more dangerous, it's the harsh truth of life, and you have to look at it

straight to the point, thank you, i and we must tell each other the truth about the fact that in ukraine 80% of people use a hostile, hostile product that destroys our state and our country and our, our nation, this is what is happening. the opportunity to tell the truth, the whole truth to oleksiy kucherenko, because oleksiy kucherenko, he said that he uses telegram, the problem, which problem we are discussing, remind me, the problem of the existence of telegram in ukraine and the influence through telegram on telegram, zelensky official 735,415 subscribers, yesterday's news about the attacks, about how people are saved. this channel is run by the zelenskyi president very carefully, but yesterday her photos are wonderful, the president's office, well

, i think that if i listened to the fiery, fiery speech of mr. paturaev, he is a very famous agitator, propagandist, such, well, in the best traditions of doubt no, he, as the head of the profile committee, has every opportunity to hold a relevant meeting and , in the event of a positive decision, to officially, openly, honestly, honestly, as well as courageously, resolutely appeal to president zelensky with a proposal that he close his telegram-channel, did not lead it and set an example for all ukrainians, this will be the most correct act in this situation, in my opinion, why did the verkhovna rada make a decision that this is a step like the verkhovna rada's decision to appeal to the nsdc regarding the closure. of these social networks, it's the fastest way, and it's definitely very radical, and it exists today, the parliament is one of the four bodies that can initiate this decision, so if we

have that consensus here from the party. authorities, i think we can actually hope that it pour into some specific decisions, well, it will be fun, in general the supreme council, the discussion will be very fun, believe me, people, people will evaluate, evaluate whether we are there for it. well , vkontakte classmates were closed by the decision of the national security council, that's right, mr. victoria, by the decision of the national security council, the fact is that the national security council can impose sanctions in the form of restrictions on the work of this or that media and, in particular , the social network, but then the subject of the submission was the security service of ukraine, but the parliament is also the subject of the submission regarding the imposition of sanctions, so it depends on who will take this responsibility in fact, speaking of the oc, but i listened to the president's press conference today, he said that he is against harsh methods, so let's speak objectively, we have three ways: do nothing, and this is true, i agree with nikita, this is an absolutely unacceptable option, because

frankly, we look... impotent if we loudly declare here that let's all stop using, but people will use, it's obvious, everyone is already used to it, a lot of information and spoiled by this information, i'm sorry, but the ukrainian special services, which transferred the main information about the very same missile strikes there, that is, it is the main, key information there, it should be transferred to other sites that are normal, that the state should organize, yes , to begin with, so that millions of people there are simply not forced to use telegram. to track them flies or on them. the second point, you don't need to use it as a tool, forgive me for throwing fakes, well, it's just a very convenient tool, and let's be honest, that anonymous telegram channels are used today, well, we also understand by whom and in whose interests, i will not actively spread about it now, and therefore we have another way, that is to follow the path of, as i said, the resolution of the verkov rada, in particular, an appeal to the national security council, closure, there must be the will of the national security council, whether

there is such a will, i do not know. today i did not hear, well, there is a third way that the parliament itself can follow, it is really by passing a bill that can be made tougher, i agree, but mykola knyazhytsky's bill is not bad, because it implements the same rules for telegram that exist today, for television in particular, that is, how the state regulates television, the state says, i want to know who the owner is, this owner must be identified, he must be understood, informed to the people, i want to know who works in the editorial office directly, where can i turn to... if i believe that false information has been spread against me, and i want to understand in general, with what funds these or other telegram channels are financed, because it is no secret that today, you know, there you can order any jeans, you can put anything you want on any of your competitors, calculating with cryptocurrencies, and in fact you don't even contact those who will put that information, you don't need to contact the editor for this, you can just throw money at cryptogamonets and mostly this is how it happens, this bench,

excuse me, of wild fake news, wild propaganda, drug trade, and other unnecessary things, it must be covered, and here is what knyazhetsky proposed, well, it is the way to get there, we can do it's just clearly working instrument, if there is no political will today to close it, well, let's hope that this topic will continue to develop, we will not drag it out for a long time, thank you for discussing the topic of the telegram, because we really need to consider the draft law and then decide in... the parliamentary hall or contact the national security and defense council, if there are relevant conclusions of the ukrainian special services, the security services of ukraine, first of all, then we will talk about how the russian federation is currently trying to destroy the energy system of ukraine, this is important question in fact, and obviously it will be relevant throughout the entire period of the next period of the russian-ukrainian war. denys

shmehal, prime minister. ukraine says that thanks to two layers of protection, ukrainian energy lost little, if any , equipment in yesterday's airstrike, although the enemy used rockets with cluster munitions for the first time. let's listen to what the head of the ukrainian government said. the distribution facilities were mostly hit by drones, there were no rocket strikes, because it is economical for the enemy was inappropriate. yesterday, by the way, the first rocket attacks took place, and... these were rockets with cluster ammunition, not daggers that attacked our substations, distribution ones, respectively, yesterday, they were dozens of rockets that attacked substations, we lost out of dozens of strikes yesterday a very small amount of our equipment due to the first and second level of protection.