but these are these are captured territories, well , relatively speaking, what is the responsibility of people in a concentration camp, in the same nazi one, is that they somehow take, participate in some things related to crimes, probably we don't put a lot of responsibility on it, a little more freedom in the conditions, in the conditions of the occupation, but again it is quite limited, but - there is probably responsibility, of course, and for me it is very important here, for example, i will move away from the second world war and from the situation of the holocaust, but they are what i will talk about, they are connected, this is the issue of today's russian aggression. against ukraine, is it

putin's war, is it russia's war, and it is clear that putin is a very important figure in this whole, in this whole story, but it is also a product produced by russian society, as hitler was provoked, produced by german society, and this society creates this model of the state and this model of behavior, and this model of behavior creates this society. so i guess what the limit of how much it's some kind of regime that means occupied a country de jure or de facto, this is an important component, but there is responsibility, there is shared responsibility, there is social responsibility, and especially when it comes to what you do with this experience of yours, which is negative, which is criminal and yes further, how do you feel about him? this, this, if we talk about

the historical component, this seems to me to be the most important component. well, then, if you turned to the topic of russia, then we can also ask a question here, which was very relevant in the first months of the war, now about it is not talked about so much, but i tried to think about it too, and now i think that it is not the responsibility of the russian peoples of russia, but the russians really have their own state, and indeed this... state gave birth to vladimir putin in one way or another, and it is not even the issue of national origin, because in the russian leadership there are people of different national origin, serhii shaigu, a tuvan, let's say by ethnic origin, but it is so clear that all these people serve russian chauvinism in one form or another, but the people of russia, who have quasi states that essentially do not protect their interests, where their national languages ​​are not studied, where their national culture, their... heritage is distorted, where everything is done

to prove their second-rateness and second-rateness, they are as responsible as the russians for this war, do you remember how at the beginning of the war , even russian propaganda tried to talk about the buryats and the tuvans, and many of us accepted this, and the facts indicated, you see, there were buryats in our village here in the kyiv region, they acted like beasts , and the chechens are kadyrovs even more... they acted like beasts, and it was as if the responsibility was transferred from the russians, who in fact created this state and this army, and this aggression, who need ukraine as their original land, to small nations that are, in principle, very far away from all this, even from europe, but they became much more responsible and cruel than those who started this war and those who have their own, if you will, state interest in this war. of course, this is

a classic imperial, imperial practice, that is , you conquer territories, then you use these territories, this is the population to actually continue their imperialist war, and then you can hide behind them, that is, this is this, this is not the first time, this is not the first time , that is... all these wild divisions and so on, that is, you can then say , that it 's not us, it's that asians came somewhere in europe and did something there and so on, but we have tchaikovsky, we read, we admire diott and so on and so on, that is, these and these and these things are already these things have already happened, the responsibility of these nations as such eh... eh i don't have any specific one

formulas for what to talk about, but i do have a very specific parallel that i think can help us think about this, what is ours? responsibility for what the soviet union did in the same eastern europe in the 1939s and 1940s, for what it did in europe after the 1945s, that is , in fact, there was no sovereignty in ukraine in ukraine, there were no ukrainians there was, on the other hand, well, the ukrainian party elite... was one of the most influential in the soviet union, that is, i studied the kyiv one, i studied the history of the caribbean crisis, well then the key decisions about whether or not to shoot at an american plane over cuba were made by two generals, the last name of one

was buckwheat, the other was pumpkin, i.e. buckwheat and pumpkin, that is, i do not know who they were in terms of self-identity, that is, there is also a question of ethnicity . whether it is territorial, that is , it is a difficult question, but it is a very real and important question, and i think today it will be better for us to answer the question about the buryats and the provinces, thinking about us and about our role in the empire of the soviet union, well that surely which is of great importance, we talked at the beginning of our conversation about all these new russian textbooks, but you also have importance... the context, if you like, forging in the imperial or non-imperial narrative, even in soviet times, you see, i thought about it, just , when i was in borodyanka and looked at this shot monument of shevchenko during the shevchenko awards ceremony, that shevchenko was, in one way or another, a soldier of the russian empire, who

always actually mocked this empire, branded it and created such an image in his poetry of this russian empire, on which we...we are all brought up, which is an alternative to the image of the russian empire that russians know, i mean not even from history textbooks, because it seems to me that culture can act more strongly than history. in the soviet union , the textbooks said that the russian empire was oppressed by other peoples, at least until the 17th year, but students in the schools of soviet russia studied lermontov and pushkin. about georgia, which bloomed under the pressure of friendly bayonets, about the polish uprising, the disputes of the slavs among themselves, and this was written by the best russian poets, in beautiful words, in beautiful works, with landscapes, i would say, of those

countries that were conquered by the russian army, either in the caucasus, or in poland, or in ukraine, some of the best ukrainian landscapes were created by pushkin in... mazepa, which is essentially an imperial myth about mazepa and such a response to byron's admiration. and on the other hand, there were students of schools of soviet ukraine. we learned all this in schools, from moldovan to finnish, everything is silent in all languages. churek and saklya, everything is yours. i remember it from my childhood. and that, i would say, could create an anti-imperial narrative. and pavlo grabovskyi, and ivan franko, and lesya. ukrainian woman, all these poets were anti-imperial at a time when their russian, one might say, contemporaries, the best of their russian contemporaries, praised the empire, and this is already, you know, a failed century of misunderstanding, so you remembered

shevchenko's words about the moldovan to the finn, the finns are also mentioned in alexander pushkin's will. and fine print, stepey kolmyk, should have considered him his national poet. and, its national poet. yes. yes, yes. that is, these, these, these are very, these, these are very different narratives. and they were, as it were, present, in particular in ukraine, and one in the lessons of russian literature, the other in the lessons of ukrainian literature. but the question is also that. that children who have studied it means, well, there are creations that are formed, that are formed by the teacher, and the understanding of what is read is also formed by the teacher, and because of this, i would like to emphasize the

importance, the importance of the role of the teacher and the importance the role of the interpreter, throughout this, in throughout this history, because... the disenchantment could and did happen in fact in any texts, that is, the same shevchenko was appropriated by the soviet literary narrative. after the end of the soviet union, tamara gundorova wrote a book about franko, he was not a stonemason, that is, franko was only a stonemason, shevchenko was only a serf in a fur coat, which he specially wore for taking photographs, and this, this is the question of what we doing with our heritage, how we try to understand it, and i join this conversation is now from cambridge, united

states of america, where great discussions are now unfolding regarding the decolonization of russian or russian-centric history, literature, where in fact almost for the first time in the mainstream, that is, the main questions are questions about the imperial, the key imperial narrative of russian literature. which imperialism was recognized as the basis of french and english literature, but somehow russian actually remained the subject of absolute adoration and idealization, and this is now changing, changing due to events in ukraine, and specifically because of the ukrainian, ukrainian resistance, so i would just like to say that... these processes are not only related to ukraine or the post-soviet space, in general, the image of the post-soviet

space, the russian space in the world, and the trigger for these opposition to ukraine became the subject of discussion. well, we can say that ukrainians can be not only witnesses, but also participants in this reinterpretation of the russian language. of the imperial cultural narrative and the russian imperial past, because it seems to me that we do not even fully give ourselves an account today of the role that this russian heritage played in the formation of even the current ukrainian perception of the world. this situation, which opened thanks to the heroism of the ukrainian army, the ukrainian people, will not last forever, if we want to somehow influence it. we need to be included in these processes, we need to speak, we need to communicate, sometimes it is very difficult,

that is, look at the current discussions on the ukrainian internet about good russians, that is, the idea of ​​communicating with anyone is effectively ruled out, treated as a possible betrayal, but what does that mean, it means creating at this pivotal moment a ghetto where we remain our own...our own truth, and limit our ability to actually affect the change of larger narratives and imagined about ourselves and the world around us. again, this is a unique opportunity to somehow waste, which from my point of view would be a crime. well, there is still a big question, to what extent the russian community itself, even the emigration, even liberal, is ready for discussion, if it is not puts this community, i would say and... and its cultural and historical preferences on a pedestal, because that's how people can speak out against

putin, but they still have no doubts that russia is the center of this whole civilization, every , who thinks otherwise, or the enemy, or someone who plays for the hype, to put it simply, i, i, i totally understand what you're talking about, i know people like that, but i also know other people who weren't there before ... 2022, which have appeared now, and we must talk to these people, i mean, it seems to me, what exactly russian society should at least partially do its own work on mistakes, realize, at least, the weight of its own culture in the world context. it seems to me that this is also a soviet influence, mr. sergey, because in the soviet union everyone was sincerely convinced that they were aware of the role of their own culture and what they could... take as world cultural values, and this is a complete lie, because the soviet culture existed in a certain

isolation from the world cultural context, and from the historical context, and from the scientific context, and only now people can, have the opportunity to understand, well, the real weight of their cultural and scientific heritage on the scales of a shared history with the world, and the majority does not want to do this, yes, that is, it is happening... this is hiding behind the idea, that is, of a separate civilization , uniqueness and so on, if we are a separate civilization, then of course, of course, anything that happens here. is unique, it does not need any dialogue with the environment, because it, because it is different, it is different, and this, this, this is, this is very serious, a very serious problem, but changes have begun, and we have the opportunity either to support these changes,

or to isolate ourselves and not support it, which means succumbing. this means that someone else found it, we can actually open the way for some interpretations, which will actually be, will be completely different, if not contradictory, compared with our experience, with our ideas, eh, that is, eh, don't enter the door, which were opened by the ukrainian army and the ukrainian people, this... it would be a strategic mistake, well then, it is also very it is important to understand that we can enter any door, which, if we do not consider ourselves to be some separate civilization that is constantly trying to invent a bicycle, and that is what ukraine should be in europe, in the future, what should be its place in europe , what do you think, already ending our conversation,

well, ukraine today appeared in europe as if in some kind of robes in the backstage of a knight, i don't know, the defender of the borderland, the european borderland, ukraine rose to war with the russian army, which only finns liked in the 40th year, the poles could not for various reasons. on two sides in the 68th year , the chigoslovs did not even try to do it, hungary did not succeed, that is, in such a large industrial, large-scale war, well, we arise as a warrior, and that was not it, it was not our choice, no was the choice of ukraine, and...

in this way, we have already entered, then the question of entering socio-economically, civilizationally , culturally, and here, here the biggest question for us is even democracy, although now there are big question marks, as far as we will be able to survive the military experience and remain a democracy, i still remain an optimist here, but... but the issue of rule of law, that is, in fact, to what extent, to what extent can we be a people, a nation, a country that will put the law above, above any others, ethnic, social, economic and so on,

the interests of certain groups, that is, this is a key issue, but it seems to me purely from a military point of view, that is, we, we chose a place, we, we, we, we create, extend the border , the border of europe further east, that is, from mine points, it is a matter of time, such integration, integration in the sense of a secure europe, ensuring this security, but culturally, culturally. on the occasion of the holiday, dear viewers, our guest was the well-known ukrainian and american historian serhiy plokhii. i congratulate you once again on the holiday. see you soon, good luck.

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my name is mykola veresin, sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions. for example, if mykola veresin had done so, he would have gone to prison, a special view on events in ukraine, so it is not necessary to say that the fish rots from the head, no, not from the head, and beyond. and then who is china, my heart aches. all this in an informational marathon. with mykola veresny, saturday 5:10 p.m., sunday 6:15 p.m. at espresso. journalist who joined the armed forces, political expert who became a special agent, taras berezovyts in a new project on espresso. the real front is this thorough analysis of major events. reports, comments of leading specialists and experts. analytics from the major of the armed forces. how to make sense of disturbing news and distinguish truth from hostile propaganda. the real front program with taras berezovets every saturday at 21:30 on espresso.

greetings friends. today we will talk about how the perception of war, in particular in art, differs between us, ukrainians, and foreigners, and why it must be taken into account when we try to somehow influence these foreigners, we will talk about the film peaceful people, which was released in trailer, is a documentary, and which consists , in particular, of intercepted conversations that we heard, which... taught, and we, we could observe all these absolutely wild conversations that shocked us then, now we have them no longer shock, but they shock foreigners who, especially those

who still believe that this is putin's war, that is , it is putin's war, this film can convince them of the obvious opposite, we will also talk about the contenders for the oscar race from ukraine for next year, it's... tapes from which will choose one, and we will also analyze which films are suitable for this and which are not, i will explain to you why i so categorically state this, well, we will start with oleg vinnyk, i will tell you why this topic is also important, although it seems to many that damn it, oleg vynnyk, why talk about it at all on a serious tv channel, no, i want to tell you that we often underestimated the topic before... tours for once, and the topic of show business, in general, the topic of bloggers, it is very important, because all these people who maybe sing songs that some people might not like, even though i

i think... that among our viewers there are many fans of oleg vinnyk, who knows, and there are also bloggers who, in general, may be engaged in treasure hunting, some game in general, but then it turns out that they are not just used, they are used effectively , and we will also talk about this today, so oleg vynnyk, a person who had a huge audience so large that they joked before the last election that if oleg vynnyk... put himself forward in the pre-election race, then who else knows him, who would became president because there really are a lot of people who loved his work, why i say that they loved, because his fans have significantly decreased, and we can even claim that oleg vinnyk was banished from our country, this word is used very often, but it is not used in fact, simply for criticism, and in general , cancellation or cancellation culture happens to people, in fact, when they... commit some

misdeeds that society does not accept, and these people simply disappear from the information space, society ceases to accept them, that is, faster than everything with the result is exactly the same and happens, because in previous programs we talked about how he left for germany during or immediately after a full-scale invasion, where he has property and lives for a long time, but he left and remained silent for a very long time, thus he ab' . fiercely lost the respect of many of his fans, then he tried to somehow break back into the ukrainian show business, but it was a failed attempt more than a year ago, and now he also made another attempt and it also turned out to be unsuccessful, he until the day of the flag until august 23 announced his new track, but as far as i understand, and as far as i was told by my colleagues from radio stations, many

managers... radio station editors decided not to put this track into rotation, because oleg vinnyk's current behavior is not very accepted, and the second point, the second point in what is the show of our colleagues on 1+1, which is called the whole country is speaking, is in particular a show that is produced for the average fan of oleg vinnyk, this is the type of audience they have. and they invited andriy kravchenko to visit them, who is applying for a place that is already vacant oleg vinnyk's place, now we can watch a video from his music videos there, if you don't know him yet, they are trying him now, well , for a long time they started promoting him as a clone of olen oleg vinnyk, he really looks like him in some ways, to a greater extent he is

his copies as from... point of view not very well, because when you are not yourself and you want to be someone else, it often looks fake enough, here it is, but with your songs, the style of the songs and your behavior , namely andriy kravchenko he is trying to win over this target audience , he is a wolf, he has so many tricks, he was invited to this show clearly with the aim of promoting it and at the end... they included oleg vinnyk from germany via skype or some kind of video link and absolutely crushed him, i.e. for his female viewers the power of television should not be underestimated, as we know, and just in the studio, well, this poor oleg vinnyk was just pelted with shit, very uncomplimentary to say the least, they spoke about him, and he himself didn't fake this interview very well, there's also and

mounted as it should, and that's why we... we can state that such a star, such a star, probably no longer exists in our show business firmament, and perhaps another will appear in his place. let's listen to an excerpt from a song by andrii kravchenko, can you find something similar? what do you dream about, my queen, when i 'm not around, say old man. what are you dreaming about, well, as far as i’m concerned, it’s a capital offense, but i’ll just say, in defense of oleg vinnyk, maybe, well, many people treated him not seriously, especially men, but i saw in his concerts, i was there twice, there were a lot of men who pretended that they didn't care, we just came as our women, they dragged us here on purpose, but for some reason they...