he mentions the country, he mentions russia, people like putin and kimchin always caused him sincere admiration, and he said the extent of his powers. maybe this is what trump would dream about if he wasn't born in a democratic country, but i don't know what he dreamed about, in fact, i'm just saying that what is important in this case is not the plan that zelensky will propose, we already have a formula for peace, we can have a plan for victory, again, we need to... to begin with define what victory is in the conditions in which we where we are now, because we have a victory to restore territorial integrity - a fact, we have a victory - not to surrender any more territories - a fact, we have a victory - this is to hold on to those territories of russia that we currently have under our control, a fact, we have a victory, not to freeze in winter, not to lose a few million more people who can leave here, the fact is, there are many victories, let's focus on something tactical. to begin with,

to achieve a strategic wash, mr. vitaly, a few minutes and we will return to the conversation with you, we're on a short break right now on espresso tv, and we'll be back with our live saturday politics club, don't switch, the daily look at the news. good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresin, sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions. for example, if mykola veresen had done so, he would have gone to prison. a special look at the events in ukraine, so it is not necessary to say that the fish rots from the head, no, not from the head, and beyond. and then who is china? my heart hurts. all this in an informational marathon with mykola veresnem. saturday 17:10, sunday 18:15 at espresso. events, events that are happening

right now and affect our lives, of course, the news feed reports about them, but it is not enough to know what is happening, it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskii and invited experts soberly assess events, analyze them, modeling our future, every saturday at 1:10 p.m., with a repeat on sunday at 10:10 a.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. direct ether, saturday's political club, we are back, we have vitaly portnikov on the phone, and we continue to discuss the main events of the current week, the most important and most relevant for our country and the world. another topic, if we are talking about... putin,

if we are talking about such an international, including aspect, putin has gathered in mongolia, this was officially announced, the russian mongolian mass media also announced this, well, mongolia , she is actually a member of the international criminal court, or not a member of the international criminal court, but ratified the roman one. statute and this means that de facto if followed international law, it should detain putin, since a warrant has been issued for him by the very same international criminal court, but putin has gathered there, and we see that mongolia is allegedly not going to arrest putin, this is also stated by their officials, and here indeed , putin is... once again trying to create

a certain international political precedent, a precedent, a violation of international law, and a precedent that putin absolutely does not care about the same international law, about recognized conventions, about decisions of international courts, etc. mr. vitaly, this voyage, this action of putin, it is real. in fact encourages such opinions, that putin wants to demonstrate his indifference and in fact the impotence of international law in this way, as far as i understand, well, you know, even in the first days after the arrest warrant was issued vladimir putin and the commissioner for human rights of the russian federation maria lvova ilova. many people said that putin

was incredibly scared, that now he would be isolated, that he would not be able to go anywhere, and where he is arrested and where he is not arrested, and for me these were such childish conversations, because from the point of view of flight... of course , this warrant is important, but you just have to be aware of putin's psychology, the main thing for putin is to destroy international law, and he is looking for excuses to destroy international law and show that he is above international law, and this is such an excuse in the form of this arrest warrant, he really gave him the opportunity to act like that, because you remember that in moscow there were incredible dissatisfied when, say, the former yugoslavia. issued its former dictator slobodan milosevic to the hague tribunal, and that, and then, when radi vankaradžica radkomladić was extradited, eventually found by the law enforcement system, that was all serious, i would say such a blow to

russia's image of the country's sovereignty, which it supports, but russia itself, of course, it has to show that it is above the court, this is... an absolutely obvious thing, and putin began to look for opportunities, i would say, to spit in the face of the judges of the international criminal court, literally from the first weeks after that , how he received this order. remember, he wanted to go to the brics summit in 2023 to the south african republic, he blackmailed the south african president , savile ramophosa, and there was also a moment when his predecessor, in the position of president, jacob. mind, he invited the then president of sudan al-bashar to pretoria for the summit of the african union, for whom a warrant was also issued, and al-bashar came, but the court in pretoria demanded his arrest, and he is literally interesting from

the republic of south africa with the help of jacob zum. however , it was also very important for the president of sudan to come to the country that ratified the rome statute. just this visit. did not take place as he expected, he was forced to interrupt it ahead of time . putin talked to lumophosa, as ramophosa himself reported, literally every day. then ramophosa took an absolutely unprecedented step when a court in the republic of south africa released the transcript of his interrogation about putin's possible invitation. de romofos said that putin threatened him even by military action if... he comes, the republic of south africa will arrest him, and when this transcript was released, that's how ramophoso showed putin that he has no control over the legal system of the republic of south africa, and so i can invite you , but if the court decides to arrest you, then

of course i won't be able to do anything, it's a very dangerous moment, and putin decided not to go there and stuck to the proposal he made on... and then, of course, when the summits were held in brazil, different in india, putin didn't try to go there anymore because he realized that, let's say, the president of brazil, lula dasilva or the prime minister of india, narendra modi, they don't control their own judicial system, that's a problem, the problem is not just to agree with the head of some state, that's a problem that this leader can be without... power before the courts, remember, andrei, that in brazil lula dalva himself was in prison, that is, the judicial system, after he left the office of president, was able to imprison him himself , then justify, that is, there is

an independent court in brazil, well, it is dangerous, of course, so we needed a country that would ratify the rome statute and at the same time control the court, and better... not a country of the post-soviet space, as we understand it, and mongolia was found, why mongolia now? mongolia right now is such a historical moment, when in power in mongolia, the mongolian people's party is the successor of the mongolian people's revolutionary party, well , at first, the mongolian people's party, the same party that was essentially created by the russian bolsheviks, to create such, i would say, fictitious independence of mongolia from china in the 20s of the last century, and this pro-soviet party ruled. until 1900, it appears there in the year 93, this is the famous party of horlogihin choibalsan, yumzhagiyna tsedembale, and the current president of mongolia, naagin khorilsukh, who invited putin to ulaanbaatar, he is from this party, he headed its youth organization, back in those days, i would say, the late

communist times, and this is a person who, that is , perfectly understands the weight of russia in mongolian political and economic life, and besides they. beijing, and it is absolutely obvious that neither russia nor china would benefit from any detention of putin. and it is obvious that in a situation where the president of mongolia from the mongolian people's party, the prime minister, the parliamentary majority, then there is control over the judicial system, putin can be sure that nothing will threaten him in mongolia, he needs to go there from this point of view. he chose such an, i would say, unexpected reason for the trip, it's the 85th anniversary of the battle of kahlengol, it seems, and it's also absolutely incredible history, because there were actually two armies to fight there, the armies of the... manchego states, which was created by the japanese in occupied chinese territory, and the army of the mongolian people's

republic, which was created largely by the russians, not occupied chinese territories, because from the point of view from the point of view of international law, the territory of the mongolian people's republic, well, before the recognition of mongolia by most countries of the world, it was considered the territory of china, before recognition by china itself, practically the only state at the time of the battle of halkingol. which recognized independence mongolia had the soviet union, and also the tuvan people's republic, i apologize, which then completely disappeared from the political map of the world annexed by stalin and the only state that recognized the independence of manjaogo was japan, and therefore it was a war of the soviet japanese army, and therefore at the congress of the cpsu after this war , georgy zhukov gave a speech in cambrai, and... not some mongolian warlord. by the way, it was from this battle that the military career of the future marshal zhukov began.

but what does that mean? what else does putin need? to support this myth because it was one of the most popular myths before 1941, stalinist myths. halkingol, spain, finland, these are all such myths of war, these are all the stories that the heroes of the soviet union gave for. here, by the way, zhukov received the first star of the hero of the soviet union for... how come i remembered it now , paradoxically, it will sound today, precisely for hulkingol, and this is also such an illustration of soviet history that putin really needs, here are four stars of zhukov, the first for hulkingol, the two following the second world war, and the fourth for the hungarian uprising for its destruction, here you have the whole marshal of rukov, such a story. when a person fighting hitler gets the first star in the war of puppet

armies, and the last one for destroying the freedom of the people who rose up against soviet tyranny, well, it seems very telling to me, so that's why putin is still going, because he can humiliate the international criminal court , he can, as you and i understand very well, also show the strength of this soviet measure. and he can set a precedent because if he comes and will go back to moscow, then everyone will say, well, mongolia invited putin, so what happened, and nothing happened, what did this international criminal court of mongolia did, did nothing, could not do anything, you see, this is the whole story , this is a precedent , and after that, maybe other countries that signed the rome statute, ratified it, will be able to calmly invite putin and not only putin, this is incredible. to be honest, and we understand that international law in these conditions works exactly when, if at all, when

you yourself want to adhere to it, this is the essence of international law, that is why the world is divided between the world of democracy and dictatorships, between the world of countries that support democracy, between the world of countries that support dictatorship, mongolia is a democratic country, absolutely, a country in which power has repeatedly changed , a country in which there were popular uprisings, a country. such people fought for their right to fair elections, but its authorities are supported by russia and china, two dictatorial regimes, one imagines that it is possible to be a conditionally democratic country and cooperate with dictatorships, here is a great example for you, and this is how the world is divided, such conditions are created for a war of worlds, and putin is one of the active, i would say, players who provokes this war of worlds, and who creates completely new rules of behavior, that is, you you can absolutely... not respect international law, you can sign documents and have nothing to do with them, but russia

ratified a major agreement with ukraine, which recognized our territorial integrity together with crimea, and donbas and all others regions, and what? then they took all their words back, that it was not her and not with her, so that the authorities in kyiv change, now ukrainian territories can be annexed, well, here is the whole essence of the russian approach to law, and she wants... broadcast this approach to other peoples. one more topic, mr. vitaly, that i would like to discuss with you, a topic that has... a great, high resonance, including among ukrainian society, but this topic also absolutely has an international, international context, the topic is telegram, pavel durov , the founder and actual head of the telegram social network, was detained in france,

he spent several days under arrest, but has now been released on bail for five. millions of euros, in fact, various kinds of investigative actions, legal actions are currently taking place, including, the fool is accused of a whole series of violations of french legislation, as far as i understand, there are also violations of european union legislation, well, we are talking, if so in the general context, that telegram is a closed, non-sharing social network actually the data that needs to be shared with the states. which actually supports certain terrorist movements, in particular through the prism of not disclosing information, not blocking some channels, and so on and so forth. there are a lot of accusations, starting from the distribution of drugs, ending, again, with the fact that telegram is actually a social network that supports those elements

, those entities that are prohibited in france, well, but less so... we understand that it also imposes a context on our country, because in ukraine, telegram is extremely popular widespread, it imposes a context on the russian-ukrainian war, because both russians and ukrainians use telegram, well, it imposes its context on global information security in general, because a lot of people have spoken about it, starting with... from elon musk, who started to defend durov, ending, by the way, with the state duma of the russian federation and russian propagandists, russian citizens who also took a break to defend the telegram social network. mr. vitaly, this is the context of what

is happening, why this is being raised now question. why does russia protect durov so much, and what further actions do you expect in relation to a citizen of both russia and, as far as i understand, the united arab emirates and france, mr. durov? well, look, i think it's all part of this big war again, which is global. because you mentioned this story great and you know there is now the story with the mask has to do with the fact that twitter ex twitter the x network is now blocked in brazil ugh ugh and before twitter in brazil these , i would say claims which in the west there is telegram, which we have telegram, this is not a mass

disinformation distribution, absolutely, i would say, planned and completely unregulated, which has a very strong effect on brazilian society, because in brazil twitter itself is the main network for receiving information, as in ukraine, now the main network for receiving information is telegram. in brazil , you can imagine every tenth brazilian is a twitter user. we have twitter not so popular, ex twitter i mean we have popular telegram but the essence of both networks, one after buying the masks, the second after it was created by the idiot brothers, it is absolutely the same, it is not controlled. dissemination of information and its anonymity, it means that information is distributed by people who are not responsible for its origin. at the beginning of our conversation, you mentioned maryana bezogola, who made public the information about the death of the f-16 plane, right? mariana bezula is a living person, a member of the verkhovna rada, and

you can have claims against her, you can eventually sue her, however, for publishing some information, you can. with her to argue, as they did, say, there, the former commander of the air force of ukraine, mykola likschuk, and the former press secretary of the air force, yuriy ignat , responded to her in a strict manner. now, remember andriy, how many anonymous telegram channels there are in ukraine, which are engaged in exactly this kind of information dissemination, which is very difficult to respond to, because they are nobody. type and do not call them anything, and even if people are found, i mean, journalists, they find some owner of the telegram channel, another, such and such drain tank, then this person says that he does not have a telegram channel for this. nothing to do with it, she sold it 100 years ago, she does not know at all who takes care of them, and all this is in the telegram, and there is a lot of resonant information, and a huge

number of our compatriots with you who read these anonymous channels, she quite often does not even know whether they are really close to the ukrainian government, after all, to the russian one, and because you know that a huge number of channels have been created that pretend to be non-ukrainian channels, but are channels of russian propaganda origin, and idiots, musk are indifferent to this, that this is freedom of speech. i want to convince you that this has nothing to do with any freedom of speech. if there is an anonymous telegram channel, the author of which is not responsible for the distribution of fabricated information, it means that you can become the object of propaganda provocation, the whole society, not only you and me. if people start to trust such information. they usually lose everything in their life they can lose. traditional journalism, as you know, also works with sources it does not name. however, each

of us, when he publishes certain high-profile information, knows exactly from whom it comes, he checks this information more than once, and not twice, and it is known for sure that the information is not verified by several independent sources, there is no information, but this is our work with you, a huge number of consumers. information, that is, ordinary people, it simply cannot realize it, and it is very much like the post-soviet society before an infantile society, very ignorant, very uncritical, and before, as people said there that they would not lie in the newspapers, now an incredible formula has appeared, i will say that the formula of blatant idiocy, i read it on the internet, and when i i ask a person, where is it on the internet, what does it mean on the internet? yet it is on the internet, from politics to pornography is on the internet, where did you read this, here is something you told me that tomorrow everything will explode,

be destroyed, perish, where did you get it, dear reader, or viewer, or listener that i response, i usually get a response when i ask this question, and what should i remember, i read somewhere, that is, this complete lack of information hygiene, it is... this is how it is used, you know, there are media of different political views, relatively speaking, some we may like, some we may not like it, someone likes cnn, someone likes fox news, someone likes ukrainian truth, someone likes censorship, but all these media in one way or another defend their brand, they try to verify information, they protect in one way or another. the information they provide and we we can say for sure that here we read this information, here we read this information, here we are living people, when we make some information public, we understand how we

will confirm the fact, what we made public, and what is anonymous, say either please, anonymous, who can sit somewhere in yaseniv and run a telegram channel , a sincere ukrainian, in which to tell how ukraine will disappear from the political map of the world in 3 months. how zelensky collects money for himself to escape by boat and so on and so forth, or sits anonymously somewhere in kyiv and says the same thing, but about poroshenko, because he knows that his employers will like it, and in fact in this way helps the russian special services to increase the credibility of their slander about zelensky, because i believe that any anonymous work, even if people, who carry out this anonymous work are sitting right there somewhere... in the banking district - this is work for the russian special services, and the security service of ukraine should deal with these people, because the creation of an anonymous information background is work for the special services of the russian federation,

this is work that sooner or later will end with the disappearance of ukraine from the political map of the world, and no army, no ukraine in such a situation will save it, because it will have a completely demoralized and demotivated society, and i absolutely firmly state that these people are working for this, i don't know for russian money, or for ukrainian money, money, as you know, not... but i know for sure what they do, they may not understand it, they may just be idiots, such idiots in our country, a wagon and a small one carriage, but anyway, ugh, yes, yes, but one way or another, this is a very dangerous moment, and this moment is not accidental, andriy, when durov created telegram, he knew what he was doing, and you remember that the vkontakte network, it was exactly the same, you haven't forgotten yet, of course, but why don't i remember, well... that's how we were used to it then, anonymous accounts, you remember, you could register,

just write that you are elon musk and print alain delon's photo on elon musk's profile and no one stopped you, no one tried to remove this fake profile. from these fake profiles were going on then and by the way , and now it's obvious that we just don't use the vkontakte network, any unforgiving propaganda. telegram is actually a modernized social network in... a promotion and nothing more, we just banned vkontakte, the russian special services caught us from another entrance, so to speak, that's all. if we are talking about the context of ukraine, we need to think about what to do in general in ukraine with social networks, and this is not only about telegram, by the way , but also about many others

social networks, in particular. which actually belongs to the chinese and which is currently undergoing this transitional process in the united states of america due to a possible ban, it also brings a lot of negativity in our country, there are a huge number of fakes, by the way, just like in telegram. what are we talking about the legal aspects, back in march of the current year 2020. the fourth of our lawmakers, in particular the bill presented by people's deputy mykola knyazhytsky was a bill that related to the actual regulation of telegram and social networks, right now, as far as i understand, this is what the brazilians want to do with the former twitter, as far as i understand, mr. vitaly, now the specialized committee of humanitarian and...

information policy is going to finalize a comprehensive document by the end of september, as far as i understand, on the basis of this bill i mentioned above, in general, regarding the regulation of social networks by the state of ukraine, including telegram, we have other problems, in fact, we are observing in ukraine... even on legal platforms, a russian product is being promoted, musical, film, cultural, informational, you can call it in different ways, for the same money that goes to the russian state budget every day, and we also need, i apologize, to do something about it, because in fact, well, our people , part of the people who don’t quite understand or understand, it’s up to them

to use such... er, social networks of such programs actually pay money to the russian federation, that is, the issue is very complex both with telegram, and with tiktok, and with various kind of platforms and so on and so forth similar, this is a long conversation, but the question is for you, your opinion is personal, what do we need to do with all this, with telegram, with tik tok, to regulate, to ban some part of the information. or require disclosure of ultimate channel owners? your opinion, mr. vitaly? i believe that regulation of social networks is not only a ukrainian task, it is a global task. there cannot be journalism with an open face and next to it a media space with a closed face. do you understand there is the internet, there is the darknet, and everyone is there understand that these are different rules of the game. everything

happens here. in the same space, the owners of social networks, by the way, this is what facebook does, however, they must learn to work with verified information, unverified information cannot be found anywhere, the owner of the information channel, information space must be responsible for his actions, well, of course, not in a situation where it's some kind of dictatorship, when you 're just making some high-profile information public secretly. but this is another story, we are talking about the civilized world, about the world where there is a judiciary, you and i, if we publish some unreliable information, now on this tv channel, we will slander someone, you and i can be sued if our colleagues who are engaged in the investigation have found out about something incredible...