independence is a concept that is asserted more by deeds than by words, in this connection there is such a question, whether it is a question of responsibility, the responsibility of a man, then to take up arms and defend the country with your own life, the responsibility of a person who understands, knows, foresees everything, and at that time, does not go into politics, and it is not a question, not assuming powers, maybe. this is not only about you, it is a question in general, but if people with great understanding, with great patriotism, with great knowledge of cause and effect, as it should be to act, they do not enter politics, they do not open a path in politics, to outright ignoramuses, outright enemies who are destroying ukraine. thank you for your question. for me, any activity is related to professionalism. and to be responsible for people who are not being professional. politicians go into

politics, i can't. i am absolutely sure that political activity is not delivering speeches, not writing articles, and not even creating meanings. this is a clear work related to decision-making of a political-legal nature. that's why i always i say that you cannot become a politician. when people in our country vote for unprofessional politicians, and then tell them, you must learn at... they forget that these people learn not from laboratory mice, but from themselves, i absolutely do not want to be a person who will speak in the role of someone who is going to gain political experience in people's lives, and what you're asking, again, it says that to the extent that we're not yet, i would say, a developed society, in the united states , a person who is... who is a political commentator

of a leading publication or television channel, has more influence than a minister or a congressman, but this is her task, she creates meaning in her place, and the congressman is engaged in the fact that he works on laws, on laws that improve the lives of his constituents, if a ukrainian voter votes for people who have never even heard the word law in their life, it's not that they are not able to create a professional team, because they don't really understand what this team can do, well, that's the result of the quality of the government, that's why mine the task is to change the quality of society, if i can change the quality of society, society will elect professionals, and i have been doing this for the past 35 years, and i will continue to work for another 35 years, i hope that if you compare russian propaganda and russian tv channels in the world, they are compared to the ukrainian... truth and ukrainian

propaganda that we convey, well, just an incomparable fraction. as a professional, do you have prospects in our country, are there people like you who can convey ukrainianness to a larger, wider audience and attract other countries, foreign journalists, and everything that can be done and done more and better in this direction, like this. well, you know, you, you forget that we are not a very big european country, in terms of the number of people, in terms of the amount of money, russia since soviet times spends incredible money on its propaganda, and it has a result from it, but at the same time, i would like to say that the first victims of this propaganda are ourselves, and not western society at all, because western society respects facts and we respect our wishes, and therefore when someone comes forward with some a proclamation that responds to... desire and

emotion, we are ready to accept it, it is not so easy for russian propaganda to reach the western consumer, and by the way, the last two and a half years there, after the start of this great war, it turned out that it is generally difficult for russia with propaganda, because the facts, when they are obvious, they are not covered by any propaganda, if western societies have values, and most people have values, and these people see the future, they absolutely ... wonder what the russians will about it tell, because they see the fact, or the story with malaysian boeing, which reached its conclusion in the international court, how much money the russians spent on propaganda, on the creation of millions of versions, yes, as if, they worked on it, i can’t even imagine what they spent the budget on this, so what, the plane was shot down by a russian missile, it was, the court established it, established it, it will be the same with every such situation, i want to remind you... that authoritarian regimes

have always spent huge amounts of money on the propagation of their ideas. the soviet union had foreign languages ​​in 80 languages. soviet agents worked in many western publications. tried to distort reality, as was the case, say, with the ukrainian famine, and where is the soviet union? against reality, by the way, ukrainians should eventually realize that one day, against reality, no other weapon can be found, except reality itself. propaganda is a temporary thing, like anesthesia. people, as a rule, really hear what they want to hear, but when they meet the reality, as the ukrainians met it on february 24, 2022, as much as there was propaganda, both foreign and domestic, russia will never attack, we are not going to attack anyone, russian officials said, ukrainian politicians said that the negotiation process is underway, it’s just that the americans want

to collapse our economy, i won’t to remind who said it, and that on february 24, 2022 it became clear to everyone, people already draw their own conclusions. please. thank you, mr. vitaly , for visiting us in lviv and holding a relevant lecture for us. thank you. so, mine question: what role will ukraine's allies play in rebuilding ukraine after we hopefully stand up, will they help us rebuild the economy and restore the dictatorship which is a bit, oh, sorry democracy, which has been a bit shaky lately though. so, thank you. look, if ukraine comes out of this war as a country with security guarantees, a country that will join the european union and join the european union, by and large we will not need the help of allies, it will just be another part of the european market, it will be a territory for investments, and large

investments, because we have a huge part of the territory now, in principle, subject to such investments and reconstruction, and it seems to me that if we become members of the european family, then it will be not about help, but about mutually beneficial cooperation. and this is exactly how i see ukraine in the future. i believe that there is, if we agree that ukraine survives, then it can survive only as part of the western world. and it will not be a country that will just donate money, it will be a country in which investment will feel safe, and the obvious condition for investment... to be safe, a democratic system is needed, because no investor will invest money in the country, until all agreements are not concluded in arbitrations and are not resolved in court, but are resolved exclusively by giving envelopes in

specific offices, such a country for investments is not defined, especially as you know, we have a strange country, there are dictatorships to which you can give an envelope in the office, there are democracy, where the case law works. and we are a country where you can give an envelope in the office, but then the court decides that the envelope is worthless, and we fall between these two worlds into nowhere, so we will have to somehow become a normal country, i think we and let's get to that, thank you for the opportunity to ask a question, you said, about your plans, well, open them up a little, what are your plans for at least a year, well, it's very necessary, i'm from mariopol, if i were to make... plans for a year , then it would be very difficult for me to live, but i see a trend, i see the trend of ukraine's survival and our ability to defend ourselves and become a part of the civilized world, but i will tell you right away that this is not an easy path and it is not

a one-year path, and i keep saying and repeating, we must learn to live in war, because if to live in hopes that tomorrow everything will end, let it all end tomorrow, let it... be a nice bonus for you, but learning to live in war for all of us, this is the number one issue for the normal existence of society, if you and i understand that this it doesn't end tomorrow and not the day after tomorrow and adapt to the conditions in which we live, then we have a real opportunity to live until peace in a psychologically stable state, because everyone who thinks that... what will happen after the war should remember that this it will depend on him, so that after the war there will not be times in which the war will be considered an easy test, this is what is important, and this is why we need to calm down and realize the reality and not live in the world

of illusions in which we have loved to live for the last decades, this hard time, it may be long, but if we want to see light at the end of the tunnel, we have to take it easy...go through the tunnel, thanks for the opportunity to ask a question, i can definitely say that you are very accurate in your predictions, i have been reading you since 2010, from the blogs. and actually, probably, i will go back a little in time to one of your articles, which was published on the death of thatcher in 2013, when you wrote that one of the problems of european politics is that the generation of political titans, such as reagan, thatcher and others , replaced by a generation of political bureaucrats. do you see today that there is a tendency to move again in europe a new generation of political titans who are able to set values ​​and actions. higher than, gas flows and money, thank you. the very logic

of new information technologies predicts that politicians who think like statesmen will be replaced by politicians who think exclusively of electoral interests, because they are dealing with an audience that no longer listens to big speeches or reads party programs. and reads text messages from donald trump: everything will be okay, let's make america great again, elect me and just see the sky in diameters. every professional politician knows how to speak like that. even i can, without being a politician, but i am shy, but there are people who are not shy, and they succeed in everything. so this is the period of adaptation to new information technologies, which in principle determine flights. but the very trials in which humanity lives,

the very challenges that face it, will simply accelerate the process of this adaptation. and yes, at some point we will see another generation of politicians. however, again, in order for this to happen, we must at least understand c what kind of world will we live in after the russian-ukrainian war. because, as i already said. "it is the outcome of this war that will determine the quality of political life throughout the civilized world, and that is why what is happening here today is so important for us, for our neighbors in europe, even for such countries as the united states of america, i continue to hope that we will succeed thanks.

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my colleagues and i will talk about the most important things. two hours to learn about the war, about military, frontline, component, serhii zgurets and what the world lives by. yuriy fizar is already with me, and it's time to talk about what happened outside of ukraine. yury, good evening, two hours to keep up with economic news. time to talk about money, in wartime. oleksandr morchyvka with me and sports news. i invite you to talk. two hours in the company of favorite hosts about news kulturnina, our art viewer is ready to talk about good evening presenters, who for many have become like a day, next to me is ready to talk about the weather for this weekend, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, mustafa dzhemilov , the leader of the crimean tatar people is in touch with us, mr. mustafa, i wish you a good day , the events of the day for vasyl zimi's two-hour long broadcast is a project for smart and caring people in the evening at espresso. hundreds of thousands of square

meters of damaged property, apartments, houses that need to be rebuilt, about the situation with recovery in different regions of ukraine, about people's rights, opportunities and personal experience. this is what olga's house looked like last year, and this is what it looks like now. i am not spending money at the moment. about how to unite the country in the process of recovery in the project of the reconstruction and development program. in the city every saturday at 18:30 for espresso. greetings, friends, greetings. happy holiday to all of you and the interlocutor of our broadcast today, ukrainian and american historian, professor of the department of ukrainian history at harvard university, serhii plohii, i congratulate you, mr. serhiy, and i also congratulate you on independence day, thank you very much, i congratulate you on the holiday, i congratulate all the viewers, listeners, on the holiday

and you personally with the presentation of the taras shevchenko award, this is very important. historical memory, and you know, i have to confess to you, of course, it sounds like a sign of bad taste, but i will tell you, there have been few history books that i read with such interest as the last school textbook on the history of russia, which was written former minister of culture of the russian federation mydinsky and... rector of moscow torkunov institute of international relations, because you know, when i read the books of historians, your books, i think that the gate of europe is such a beautiful example of such an analysis of ukrainian history, when i then read it in kmedynsk, for me it is like watching, i even i don't know how to compare it, well, some comic from which i

am trying to find answers to the question of what modern russia breathes, the modern russian elite, how it distorts... distorts ukrainian history, i don't know if you have seen this book , yes, yes, i saw it, and actually, no, i didn't read it all, but paid attention, of course, to the last chapters, and the feeling on the one hand, really, as you say, like a comic, that is, because the textbook crystallizes as much as possible, any approach, any idea, and this textbook is simple. .. an excellent textbook of today's russian radical nationalism, fascism, imperialism, that is , the term can be any, but on the other hand , you understand that it is made from the point of view of the influence on e schoolchildren, e is quite professional, and

that is, the blatant blatant unprofessionalism is historical and very very. dangerous professionalism, when it comes to the way the textbook is formed, and for us, historians, it is like putin's article from the 21st year, on the one hand you want to laugh, on the other hand it is clearly not to laugh, because this, because these are documents, which form those crowds or hordes or battalions that came to ukraine and may come in the future. this is a very important question. we... you and i studied history in soviet schools, i don't know to what extent it can be said that these history courses really influenced a large number of people and preserved in them an idea of ​​history, such which was then essentially destroyed by the collapse of communism. how long do these dangerous narratives stay in people's heads, i mean long exactly when

the social order is changing, because we always say, here is putin's russia, it can, its time of existence can come to an end. does this mean that in the heads of those people who will learn from these textbooks in russian schools, these narratives of aggressiveness, disdain for all non-russian imperialism, or will they remain even after putin? of course they will to remain as the soviet narrative actually remained for a very long period of time, i.e. the so-called leninist fall, that is 2013-2014 . the soviet union ceased to exist in 1991, and the signs of mar markers of soviet history remained, they remained significantly less or almost did not remain in western ukraine or in the baltic states, where mobilization, including this protest, began

during the anniversary of the hammer pact molotov ribbentrop, but in a significant part, part. of the soviet union in a significant part of ukraine, those stereotypes continued for decades to a certain extent still continues, and they are supplanted not only and not so much by showing that, well, these narratives are somehow scientifically or socially untenable, but they are supplanted when other and other narratives appear, and from my point of view, i the same leninopad wrote about it, this... among other things, this is also the moment when ukraine refused to live together in a world in which lenin is both a hero and a victim. of the famine, that is, heroes, victims, and all this somewhere in one village, on one square, and they are celebrated at the same time, that is, this is this schizophrenicism, historical schizophrenicism finally

came to an end, and one of these monuments had to be demolished, it was a monument to lena, but it happened again in 2013-14 and in a large part of ukraine, as a result of the decision of the verkhovna rada, not as a result of the decision of local councils, well... they say that they actually tried to unite ukraine with such a mix of historical holidays or historical memory, do you remember the appeals of ukrainian politicians who said: let's have different heroes in different regions, conditionally saying, in the west and in in the center, the heroes of the ukrainian rebel army will be the heroes, in the east , stakhanov and artem, who are none, will be the heroes, relatively speaking. to be honest, they have nothing to do with ukrainian civilization, of course, i remember it very well, but it was not an attempt to unify ukraine, it was

an attempt to gather votes in each of the regions, speaking in each region, what , what is there, it means, somehow historically developed, historically liked, eh, and, eh, here the question is, on the one hand, really the narrative and... the continuation of the existence of the soviet narrative, on the other on the other hand, this is a more serious issue, what should we do with the soviet heritage, the people who were interviewed in the 14th and 15th years, completely ukrainian-oriented, patriotic and so on, said: well, from my city in donbass, take away the monument to lenin, and what will remain there, there are no other monuments, the city itself was formed. 20-30s, and this, this question is more serious than simply, it means to show that, so, the medina swindler, or er, the long

soviet narrative is built on blood, this is a question of what, actually, our, our consciousness, what should we do with the long soviet period, what should we do with the same violinist. what should we do with a politically divided history, that is, this is a more serious question that cannot be solved simply by denying or mocking a certain narrative. but can we say that we are the first to solve such questions? i can give you an example of the story of north macedonia. i remember when i first started coming to north macedonia in the years after its independence, folk heroes remained on its iconostasis. macedonia, they were members of the communist union and komsomol members, but they fought for macedonian sovereignty as part of yugoslavia. then the next government tried to replace this

historical narrative by appealing to the hellenic heritage, to alexander the great and his father king philip. now, i would say, there is some kind of search for new compromises between this communist period, that is, the supporters of macedonia's sovereignty, and the pre-communist period, when macedonia... a significant part of the hellenic civilization, they are looking for themselves, maybe we need to look in the east as well myself, as america does it, i come to some american city, and there are people who are heroes of some political or cultural battles of the 19th and 20th centuries, american cities are also created, i apologize, not in the 12th century, it is not athens is neither rome nor kyiv, nevertheless they have their own architectural image and their own image of those they are proud of. ugh, yes, i think, in terms of the number of settlements with the name of athens, america beats greece, that is,

they are looking for roots, they are looking for roots in the classics, but i completely agree with you that this search, and what very often looks like irritation to us, there are other words, of course, for this on facebook, and in the public space and so on. there are elements, elements of this search, and we are not unique, that is, we are a country that arose on the ruins of a former empire, a multinational country, with a developed iconostasis and a national narrative, and we were not dropped somewhere on top, that is, on some kind of parachute, that is, part of the same elite, the same sixties, they, they are just as... just soviet like them anti-soviet, that is, it is a natural, it is a natural process of forming a nation from within, from within the empire, and it is a very difficult process. without

agreement, historical agreement, agreement, political, that is, no, no, we are not unique, on the other hand, each, each of these post-imperial nations has its own set of problems, has its own set of, let's say, some positive historical elements, the so-called usable past, which can be used for this formation. a new idea, and ukrainians in this sense are endowed with a very, very good history, that is, there is something to turn to, from to the fact that there is kyiv, there are kyiv shrines, to the fact that there is a very developed cossack narrative, there is a narrative of struggle in the 20th century against any invaders, very different invaders, that is, here we have, if we

cannot... use , if we cannot come to an agreement through a better understanding of history, which means a better understanding of ourselves, well, we will have no one to blame but ourselves, we are not deprived of history. well, there is a very important thing here, it seems to me that history is distorted and hidden at the same time, because when i go to some historical events that seem to me completely clear, because i thought it was simply necessary to read. and let's say so, the soviet or bolshevik version of history is on the contrary, well, relatively speaking, to change the signs, then i very often come across a situation when it turns out that simply the events were completely different, that it was not due to events, what conditionals are bad, fought against the conventional good, and now we ask the good for the bad and vice versa, and understand how it all really happened, and then it turns out

that it did not happen, that it was all you. what is all this a myth, such as the famous story of these panfilov heroes, or the details of the famous feat of zoya kosmodimyanskaya, or how in the history of the second world war soviet propaganda always talked about the feats of soviet pilots, they were definitely heroic people, but they never reported that in principle, the pilots of the reich were much more effective and efficient than the pilots of the soviet union, and against this background, of course, all this looks more... less heroic, but together with these, more tragically, the price, the price of each the flight becomes much different than it was in soviet propaganda, such examples can be given a huge number, and the very fact that we do not know the truth, that we even make up the truth for ourselves, trying to somehow evaluate the situation on the contrary, it seems to me that this is also very dangerous, yes, you know, i'm hearing it for the first time, and i hear it from you to change it on the contrary, i experienced it myself. period,

the end of the 80s, 90s, that is, the idea was that if you change the sign and the world, the world will somehow manifest itself, and you will understand it, and this part also of existence in the conditions of these ideological wars, and and and acceptance probably on a certain side, and relative, relative to those of that particular example that you on... relative to airplanes and and and pilots and heroes and losses, if i do not recall, from 40 to 50% of all losses of soviet aviation were related to the fact that with mechanical malfunctions of aircraft, that is, from 40 to 50% of losses, that is, this is exactly the reality that you will not understand by simply changing plus, plus to minus and minus on

the plus side that history is really very, very multifaceted, and propaganda, what it is, how it is it works, that is, not necessarily, it is absolutely, absolutely a lie, it also happens, but it takes some aspect of a big problem and highlights it as a marker, as a characteristic of this whole problem, and change its plus to minus, well, you can understand that another aspect, but not the problem as a whole and... only, only the understanding of this story as a whole, it seems to me, can be the truth that can liberate us, that is, this, this, this is a process, the process is much more complicated than, changing signs, another very important aspect that i always think about now when it comes to about the future european integration of ukraine, this is a historical memory that...