polemics, in discussions, here i give an example, in the 20th century, to be more precise, from november 17th to august 91st, we proclaimed independence six times, in different interpretations, six times, and look, carpathian ukraine, lasted a day and a half on the red field in our country. she was taken the bandera state lasted almost three days. listen, well, six, six times. it says a lot that this is code. this is the code of the nation. and so when we talk today about 33 years of our latest independence, it's actually, you know, it's our longest the national path over the last 300 years, from the cossack state, from vegovsky. and

this in itself is already surprising, but if we remember that during 300 years of statelessness, 171 times we were deprived of the right to speak ukrainian, have our own alphabet, have our own writing, then remember the dream of taras hryhorovych, and we are talking about time, the middle.. . last century, taras hryhorovych's biggest dream was to publish a primer in ukrainian, you know, it's heart-wrenching, we only got our primer a hundred and a half years ago, before that, we were not given a liturgy, nor the right to speak our own language, nor to wear our own shirt, god forbid, if...

ukraine is not dead yet, well, magadan, magadan, and there with white ukrainian tassels, in the veil, this whole taiga and tundra, so actually, you know, i am proud of the fact that such torments, general, i think, most nations would not survive, and we also passed the difficult school of our state. we went through a great amnesia, when after the greatest tragedies in our memory, we had to erase everything with an eraser so that neither the children nor the grandchildren, the greatest human tragedies in europe, and in spite of everything, in spite of everything, you know, we got to the edge, the edge of this abyss, and today we stopped. a state that everyone knows in

the world, everyone is proud of, it amazes me how , you know, even in europe there are many examples, political with reference to what a great national deed, what a great european deed ukraine is doing today, what ukraine is the bulletproof vest of europe, what a lot from what ukrainians are doing, few people in europe would do it, in fact, the example and the work we are doing to... against the greatest evil in the world, against russian fascism, against the greatest chemically pure evil, in general, which can be in today's history, this is the moscow occupation that ukraine is experiencing today, it has become such a page of universal education for europe and the world, because when you think and...

give an answer in conscience , putin, as the world knows it today, was really brought up by western politics, the putinization that europe accepted, it is a product of the last, well, maybe 17 years, 15 years, when europe mindlessly paid putin 1 billion dollars every day, violating all norms which both national and european were adopted. regarding energy quotas in the regional market, breaking everything, bringing in 1 billion per day, this is of course what led putin to schizophrenia, to recklessness, to the loss of the last parts of his mind, when in fact the world appears a version of fascism of the 21st century. this is

what happened before our eyes, and on the other hand, the feat that our nation is doing today, and a nation that... years ago, or rather 35 years ago, when in 1990 there was a vote for the ukrainian parliament, the ukrainian nation gave 239 votes for the moscow bastards, and that was the name of the group 239, that's the group 239, a few more months pass in the spring, march of 1991, when... the ukrainian nation is asked, you, you are there in general for a renewed union, what is this for you independent ukraine, more than 70% of ukrainians: yes, yes, we are a renewed union, there are probably 6 more months to reach december, 91% of ukrainians, no, no, no,

no, we are for a sovereign, independent ukraine, this can be analyzed politically, how... for 12 calendar months, the nation of the state, when the people were walking, voted for evil, because red, red russia, bolshevism, this is a separate breed of moscow slavery, which was established in ukraine for 73 years, the time is coming, and we vote for them again, so moreover , sorry, 98, if i am not mistaken, how many ukrainians voted for the communist party of ukraine in the verkhovna rada of ukraine? we can formally say that the section of the communist party has been preserved in the ukrainian parliament for the longest time, you won't find them in europe with a magnifying glass, where are those communists? in

ukraine, they still reigned, and they were not just in the parliament, but were a golden card parliament, they were lured to vote for money. any law, which, who needs 2.5 dozen votes there, well, you have to go to the communists, they are sold at every step, well, i mean, what kind of maturation has the ukrainian nation undergone in these 33 years, how are we from that a world that i don't even want to talk about, which , frankly, i'm ashamed to talk about, because you know, living in europe and... and at the beginning of the 20th century having a terrorist organization of the communist party of russia in the parliament, and yes, there was never a communist party of ukraine, it was a branch of the russian communist party, because the soviet union is russia, it is not yes, then

in general you approach the fact that we have passed colossally, colossally big milestones before our eyes. 33 years, i understand how a large part of people can be dissatisfied with something, but in general , it is a great progress, and if we had the sense of national awareness that we have today, we had in the 90s , i think that we would be where poland is, where lithuania is, even where... bulgaria, even where romania is, we would be in a different class, organization of the political system, in our if there were other friends, other partners, that is, we were in a better place, in the best

sense of the word. at the same time, you are talking about the fact that in the struggle we are currently waging against russia. and i emphasize the word russia, because it is evil russia, it is not only putin, because putin feeds on the russian swamp, what is called the russian people, it is a tool for the legalization of putinism as such, therefore it is impossible to separate it, there is one negative personality, an absolute evil is putin, and on the opposite side is the institution of... awards the people of russia, no, no, they gave birth to putin, they gave birth to lenin, they gave birth to stalin, they give birth to all evil, but how can i say, i do not want to do a deep analysis of what is being done in

russia, in that swamp, but i would like more talks about ukraine, and when you remember the lesson. of our liberation struggles, lessons taught by our best minds, well, for example, taras hryhorovych, shevchenko. when he writes this, addressing me, it seems to me that he stands behind ukrainians even today, and this says: my beloved country is innocent, my word is innocent, every time it one wonders where taras hryhorovych got such a deep, apt and pure word? my dear country is not to blame, why is the lord punishing you? punishes severely for bohdan and for the mad peter.

in other words, taras hryhorovych wanted to say: ukrainians, if you want to dig, where is the root of your misfortune, where is it buried? this is russia. or the fifth column, which is being formed in ukraine, this bohdana, or the mad petro or vladimira. or joseph, no, no, no, it is not so important how, and that is why every national movement that we had, it basically started with one slogan, away from russia, you want to be be happy, stay away from russia, don't argue that there's something cheaper, that there's something bigger, that there's something more affordable, away from russia, and that's why this picture. according to the story of mykola hryhorovych felyavy, who

was not allowed to write for years, in the end this ukrainian genius reaches a dead end, invites his friends, his sister, tychyna, who still lived the word in the house, come to me tomorrow, i will show you how to write, they came, and this... unrealized talent, wait for me a minute, went to another room and shot himself, that is, i am leading to the point that this independence, this sovereignty, this self-awareness in which we live today, this is a fantastically great ukrainian work, this is what then gives such nourishment to various spheres and necessarily to the material sphere. in our e-e development, social affluence and others, which

may come later, but this is necessarily the phase of the state when we become whole, internally consolidated, and we solve those tasks that maybe two or three hundred faced as a problem ours, we are still talking about the economy let's talk, because i will be very interested in your opinion, as a person who was once recognized as the best banker in the world, i don't remember what year it was, it's true, but there was definitely such a story, and i remember, because i lived in those times and i have already followed your history as prime minister, it was not easy, of course there is now a war, now is probably the most difficult time in the entire period of independence, but before that i would like to ask you as a person who did not just communicate with putin, he came home, ate borscht, in my opinion, even, and you said a very... good phrase that money made him stupid, that is, material things ceased to have any meaning for him, he obviously decided

to go down in history, but i am interested in your opinion on how to stop him, and therefore the whole of russia, and whether there is, whether this understanding reaches the world leaders, this individual, as the late kozlovsky, a prisoner and writer, said, he said that it is now more of an infernal personality, what putin is. of course, i cannot speak neutrally about putin, evil speaks of me, i speak of me as revenge, a reasonable person cannot behave like this circumstances to which he convinced the country to act. i think that in 25 years he created the most unsuccessful project for russia, how to destroy such a country as russia, and i am convinced of this that... oh, one of the formats of victory in today's war is not

only how to reach the farm mykhailivskyi, ukrainian troops and stop there, it's not about that, if we leave the evil called putin, and with him , putin's russia, fascist russia, where putin is fed like the energy of 145 million little ones. and this is the beginning of the source of putinism, this the blessing they give, so if we stop at mykhailivski farm, it will be a big mistake. i mean in the wrong way. that we should physically remind of the green wedge, the crimson wedge, the yellow wedge, the gray wedge, the ukrainian taganrog, the ukrainian belgorod, the ukrainian kuban, well, in one word, i wanted to name a whole series of extreme territories

where the ukrainian presence, it eternal, eternal, we are not talking about this now, we are not talking about this dimension of geography, we are talking now, if europe, if the world is not will understand that there can be no victory while putin's regime continues to exist, that there is no negotiation process when president putin is sitting in one of the chairs. this is the first sign that you have lost, that you are giving some kind of nourishment to this mess, you don't need it, i'm talking about the portuguese or the germans or the french, you don't need it, it will take you tomorrow. in what form? let's not guess now, i just want to say one thing that

today, if you haven't decided the topic security, you have not decided. none of the issues that are on your agenda, security is such a thing that knows no boundaries, regardless of whether you are 600 km or 10 thousand or 15 km away, and therefore it is obviously a big task for the world today, how to correctly formulate the definitions of getting out of the war brought by putin, i just want to emphasize one thing that... no no no no there would be no prejudicial discussions, the presence of putin at any conference, the presence of the need for putin's signature on behalf of the prison of nations gives the answer to our victory, it should not

be left for tomorrow, and then we quietly approach the thoughts that... i think are very undervalued in today's world, i'm afraid, or i'm wary of the syndrome that we experienced in the 90s , when the president of the united states arrives from the rostrum of the parliament, he says in 1993 that ukrainians, don't you dare to create sovereignty, and george bush, from whom everyone expected support. on the streets of kyiv for three months, there have been many thousands of rallies for the independence of the president of the largest democratic state comes and says: don't you dare to do that, don't dare, and i'm sorry that he stopped by my way to kyiv then after moscow or to moscow, well, in any case, it

was a visit on the way, i know that he the one who laid out the supreme. to the council on the way from the airport to lenid makarovich, well, he gave theses or verbally what he wanted to say, as if he agreed with leonid makarovich, as the head of the verkhovna rada, well, in a word, i have a heavy feeling that today the world has stopped and european, including on crossroads if tomorrow is after completion. we see this war in the bosom of russia, in the russian model, in its presence on this political field, i think that we are making a huge mistake, a huge mistake, we are taking the time-out that putin needs most today, so that later

come to the borders of poland. slovakia, bulgaria, and continues to carry out the evil deed for which he saw the russian mission, when, you know, on the same question, where is the end of russia, where, where are its borders, from peter the first we hear such a historical hymn that russia's borders are where its interests end. wording, then putin's wording of the 2000s, well, to be more precise, it was in 2006 at... at one of the language conferences expressed by his wife, the reports that were written in the kremlin, and she voiced the position of the kremlin. russia ends there, guys, where

the russian language ends. for the last 3 months , putin has been conducting an optional historical course, and there he asks the boy about seven or eight years old. how are you going with this philosophy, it's no joke, well, as the president, the president of the country exits, every word, it is official, and he says that his state, which

occupies 1/8, which leads today, maybe 10 wars, maybe even more, and count in africa, how many wars there are, count africa, count the caucasus, to touch eastern europe, and this country is a member of the organization. of the united nations, the highest security organization in the world, the security council was chaired by a member, a permanent member of the security council, this is a country, an aggressor, this is a country where its leader is recognized as an international criminal, at every step in europe a photo is sought a criminal, putin and so on and so forth, and we live in such a world, this is a country that has not even been formally accepted as a member of the united nations. listen, it's amazing what kind of world this is. so this is what i am leading to, that the answer, with such

a russia, no one can apply. today , to sit down with him for negotiations, it means to repeat munich in the 38th year. do you remember when chamberlain flew in, waved one sheet and said, i brought you a measure. while you were walking, i worked as a diplomat. but it's great, i brought you peace, i gave you the same child, there in france spoke, and here we are now standing, listen, we need red lines, we need to listen, that this executioner of peoples, prisons of peoples, speak, warns, this is a territory where under the cover of colonialism more than 100 indigenous peoples live, where every... two years someone's native language is dying, listen, we are in a terrible world, in fact, and that's why, when in europe

they try to form some kind of tolerance, what is it possible to do with this evil at all, a deal will be made for a few years, this is a very wrong policy, it is on the other side ukraine gives you an example of how to fight for one's sovereignty, for one's independence. how is it really possible to be an armored car of europe, how is it possible, in other words, to enter the territory of the aggressor's country and make putin read something from a piece of paper with trembling hands, having gathered his generals and not knowing what to do, it turns out that it was possible, here again , they don't understand what it will all lead to, but we understand that ukraine sometimes shows, it's just such an example to your words that europe doesn't know what to do with putin, but at one time... in the battle of piregavgameh oleksandr macedonian showed what could be done with the persian empire by destroying an army that was ten times larger, it was not possible to destroy the world of empires by half, but the world of empires

collapsed 100 years after napoleon, that is, now, without taking a certain step, we will simply drag it into times, then it can be absolutely, paragraph number one: do not look for a partner in putin, he will never be, he is a speculator who will use today's historical position in order to come to your door tomorrow, and therefore, be wiser, although it it is more difficult to do, of course, the things about which we say that the answer to how to democratize russia, i do not find it in the answer that one ideal democratic force will come, which will now be supported by 144 million russians, i take this as a conditional figure. there is no such force and never will be, in the regime of a dictatorship this force nourishes very well.

putin, his government, and his junta. russia's problem, by the way, is not only russia's, perhaps. putin's evil triumphs, not because there is so much in russia, and it is so strong, what we call evil. i think in the formula existence of putin. the strongest point is that in russia there are most indifferent people, and indifferent people, they automatically close with evil, and it, and it triumphs, and it is because of indifference, you know, when you, when you go out on the tver boulevard and stand like this near the memorial of the ukrainian prince dolgoruky.

you are arrested, when today we talk about the world that is informational, where billions of megabytes of memory are exchanged in an instant, more than one thousand journalists in russian prisons, several thousand political prisoners at all levels, local and up to the highest, this is a country who lives among us. how are you going to arrange your future with such inhumans? in general, don't you feel the danger with this indifference that exists in russia, which is brought up as a political system, no state institution works there, there is no parliament, no upper house, no lower house, this is a printer that will issue you

any evening what standards, any, open a new war, in 15 minutes the document is already signed by putin, any evil, it will be so scaled that the political community, whether inside the country, in europe or in the world, there is no way to stop it. sooner or later, we want to come to terms with the fact that such a political system with such a leadership that exists today... in russia, in the world, there is no green light for its existence, no, sooner or later, rather at the most inconvenient time, you will be knocked on the door and told , what you put to sleep two years ago, three years ago, evil, what you put to sleep, what you did not decide and acted inadequately,

now it is knocking on your door. and you are poles, or you are germans, or you are french, you will give the answer that you did not give 5 years ago. in fact, the awakening of the world is, obviously, if you, if you remember, in the year 22, how french president macron spoke with putin for 16 hours, just a miracle, this is one of the leaders of europe, calling the criminal who opened a new world war . what are you asking him for, what are you begging him for? well, at the beginning of the conversation, put, put, well, healthy analysis, will he release the territories he occupied at your call? no, will his plan to escalate to new territories change? no. what is the purpose of your calls, are the elections taking place.

chancellor scholz and in one of the interviews, in the first interviews, he says: what germany won't give ukraine, as if the question was: what germany won't give ukraine? no, the question was, what will germany give to ukraine? so katzler began by devoting 2/3 of his speech to the fact that germany will not give, that wo n't give, that won't give, that won't give, that's gone, yes, and what will germany give? at the end of the speech he says: germany will give 500 helmets and 25 field bags with a red cross. yes, that's exactly how it was. now listen to chancellor scholz, he tears putin, and, even on human level, without any patience. he uses the most profound.