literally fighting our 11th independence day or did you as a historian foresee and know that you would have to go to war? well , in fact, in fact, that is , i was preparing myself for a full-scale conflict, and in fact i was preparing my relatives and friends that it is most likely inevitable, and that is, i am not the only one, i am not in this... unique, i know a lot of my brothers who analyzed the international situation, who analyzed the things that the country 404 is doing, can we call it that today, so as a volon de morda not to talk, ah, that this all leads to a full-scale conflict, after all, you very aptly mentioned this documentary series that we worked on for 10 days of independence and, as far as i know, viewers of espresso had the opportunity to watch it, because it was broadcast. absolutely, absolutely, and simply,

if we analyze the history of the 20th century, specifically the ukrainian 20th century of the struggle of ukrainians and ukraine for its independence, we will see that the one that is completely scaled, that is , the war that began in the 14th year, which we now we call the modern russian-ukrainian war, it obviously started much earlier, back in the 20th century, and it is already such a full-scale stage or full-scale. cycle, it was inevitable, and perhaps we will touch on this issue somewhere in today's conversation, this is a very important issue for understanding that you can never trust russia, you can never believe in any ephemeral peaces or truces that russia offers you , and at the same time one cannot admire the democracy of russia, why am i talking about this, actually from... again appeals to our

series, when we were preparing a series just about independence day, and later about the referendum, there was once such a president of the russian federation, whose name was boris yeltsin, and the world admired him, because he was a democrat, and so on, but if we look at the press of that time , the great democrat yeltsin at the beginning of 1992 already openly threatened the state of ukraine that if it does not get rid of its nuclear status, he will make a preemptive nuclear attack on ukraine, and this is the year 1992, well, that is, a great democrat yeltsin threatens to the neighboring already independent state that it will strike with nuclear weapons if it does not comply with its safeguards, and this is generally the entire history of russia, and the history of russia and its relations with ukraine, that is, until this failed state, which... exists in the north - on the eastern

border with us, they will never come to terms with our independence, they will never come to terms with our independence, so if we jump a little ahead, you celebrated the 11th day of independence, and actually this 11th day of independence, it will either take place in our country, or in my opinion, in my personal opinion, or we we will cease to exist as such if... the orange revolution, or the revolution of dignity, these were our days of independence and our victories, and we obviously could lose in them, well, actually there were various factors that contributed to the fact that we could lose, but then we still had some perspective, well, that is, we can only remain ukraine there, and, well, we will be, i repeat, another fail state like belarus, and which, unfortunately... its self-proclaimed dictator

is now the one who they are, but we won then, now there is no question here about whether we will remain ukraine as an ephemeral country, in fact the question here is whether we will exist or not exist as such, and therefore this day will either happen, it will truly be the day of independence and the day of our victory, or we will cease to exist , i very often analyze these things that happened in the 20's. century, i used to work a lot in the archive of the sbu, in various positions, for about six years, my last position there, i was the deputy director of the archive of the sbu, the branch state archive of the sbu, and now during my treatment because i'm on leave and sick due to a battle injury and i remembered that in a previous life before the full-scale invasion i was a historian and started working on a book now. and once

again i distort the materials that i wrote before, i raise new ones, again i raise the documents of the nkvd, mgb, kgb. and they are very illustrative, because they very clearly show what can happen to us if we lose, and this is conditionally, as, say, with an active army of the onr or as the soviet special service called them with the petliurivtsi, and this is the predominant the majority of the personnel of the army, i mean now the armed forces of ukraine, will be physically eliminated, even if not on the battlefield, then later tracked down and eliminated by the special services, a large part of ukrainians who fought... for independence in other armed ways, i mean of ukrainians in the body, who help, who volunteer, who donate, who hurt ukraine, they , respectively, as supporters, as the soviets called it, of the ukrainian counter-revolution, and

here, that is, as supporters of, say, the ukrainian people's republic, they will convicted, exiled to siberia, but the part of the collaborators and the part of the kidney will remain. nevs or zhduns, which , unfortunately, still exist in ukraine, and still exist, moreover, they exist in different parts of ukraine, like here in lviv, where we are now having a conversation, or in odesa, or in kyiv, or in kharkiv, that is, i do not want to say that our outlook is sad, because we are now an independent country, which has a fairly strong and professional army, and which is helped by the west, and we have a chance to win this war, only for... for that we win in this war, this war must become a people's war, it must not be a war of units, it must be a war of the majority, when i talk about a people's war, that is, it is not only that somewhere there is, you know, as it was unfortunately happening somewhere in 2016,

the 17th, the 18th, when the news from the ato zone, and then from the zone of operation of the united forces, well, it was already going from decline to... decline, decline, well, somewhere there are some guys and girls, somewhere in the east they fight with someone there, it's okay here, we have life here, but i have nothing against a peaceful life, even though i'm a military man, but oh well a peaceful life is a peaceful life, it is good, because you can actually go on vacation to a peaceful city, where your wife, or your lover, or your mother is waiting for you, and spend those 10 or 15 days of vacation there , but this war should not go astray and about it... we should never forget that in civilian life, in fact, when it will be popular, when the whole people will fight, then we will be able to win. february 24, 22nd year, it looked like a national day, everyone mobilized then, what was your

day like on february 24? oh, i had a very funny one, well, i didn't i don't want to look like a clown, it certainly was n't a comedy, not a funny day at all, but it started off interesting to me, that is, i overheard something. pav and we had a meeting there in the evening with the director of the center for the development of social sciences and humanities, we were supposed to make a presentation of a book there, and i said: listen, it’s all good, what we are planning, but it seems to me that it will start from day to day, and i don’t care will be at this event, but i convinced her that nothing would start, well , okay, and then i sat down in the middle of the night to finish the book, just then my colleague and i from the institute of the history of ukraine, the national of the academy of sciences, tetyana pastushenko, we worked on a book about the sredsk security police camp of the isd, that is, it is a nazi camp on the territory, on the territory of kyiv, which existed from 1941 to 1943, and where a lot of people were actually murdered by the nazis. and we worked on a collection of documents by order of the university of jerusalem, that's why i

mentioned it for a reason, because - putin came to de-nazify us, and i was sitting, working on a collection of documents about the national camp, well , i don't know... whether he knew about it probably not i knew, i was working somewhere, it’s true, until 1:40 a.m., and then i simply fell asleep on the computer, well, that is, the beginning of a full-scale sleepover, and i was woken up by my good friend from the states, bohdan havrelyuk, he is from organization for the defense of the four freedoms of ukraine, and he called me, i'm sad, picked up the phone, i say what happened, he says, you have a war, i say, i'm either sleeping, or something seems to me, he says, the war is on the news, and . i then went to ukrpravda, saw that a full-scale invasion had really begun, and then everything turned upside down, military officer, not military officer, territorial center of recruitment and social support of tsk, better known, distribution, the first,

the first month is the defense of the ternopil airport, i was in the calculation of anti-aircraft fire, banally speaking, so as not to... name the full full name, otgu e- after that, after that it is a company of counter-sabotage struggle, later an intelligence company. and then, from the summer of 22nd , it was direct participation on the front line , it was donbas (the north of donbas and the zyum direction), later the south of kharkiv region, then the kharkiv counteroffensive, then kupyansk, and now sumyshchyna. a long way from ternopil, 1200 km. you're on the mend now, yes, the man's recovery. a combat injury, well, well, it ’s called a combat injury, but somehow, well

, we like to joke with our brothers, somehow it happened, i jumped and broke my knee, well, it happens, yes, i just jumped like that, or after all, i was saving my life , we carried out measures to mine positions, and unfortunately, we were, er, you can use slang, she burned us, you can use slang. and the sling is possible, okay, it is possible, us burned down the ork, that ork hall, well, this is their reconnaissance drone, and after that , after they saw us, a mortar fire started from their territory, and we had to urgently take a position below the ground, there is such a position below the ground, well, i was in this ammunition, i unsuccessfully jumped somewhere from a height of 3 m, well, that's how it turned out, that's how i was, is this the first injury? well, this is already the second, the second, eh, and that’s it, everything is lucky for me on

mines, all the same 82nd, because there was also an 82nd near kupyansk, but it hit the wall the dugout is over my head, but there it was, this one was there too, well, it was scratched, as the guys say, uh, the guys who are with you, eh, did any of them have a question for you, or a question with a claim , as a historian, they say, if you... knew that there would be a war, why didn't you warn, or why didn't you historians warn all of us? no, well, we warned, well, it’s true, but i’m asking if people ask this, i even, i can even drop the stakes, where we warned about it, no, the guys didn’t ask such a question, well, here, probably here there is, well, i won't reveal some big secret now, here there is - as i see it in ukrainian society, and among my brothers and sisters, there is such a certain question somewhere, apparently, to the authorities, that is, that for a certain period

it went according to the principle , like this hollywood movie with leo decaprio, don't look up, that is, don't look up, but it was a dangerous tactic, many people really didn't believe what was going to happen, but everything pointed to that, and our western partners pointed to the fact that guys like that no questions asked, we are there when someone has time and mood, then we are talking about other historical issues. we are talking about what interests people who are in the trenches with you, who are shoulder to shoulder with you, but they do not have a historical education, what they are interested in is history, it is from the history of ukraine, i apologize, well, it depends here, that is, someone is interested , well, my brother actually fights in the same platoon with me, he is a historian and graduated from the same faculty as me, well, that is, he and i sometimes stick our tongues, we can talk for a long time, but not only simply. there are also about international relations and about other things, it depends on who has what request, well, that is, on me

here is my platoon leader, he is interested in history, and even when it was more or less quiet in our positions there, well, near kupyansk, it is always comparatively more or less quiet, but when you could have a little chat there at the sp, he is there forever i asked myself, and tell me about that, and tell me about that, and tell me about that, well , then even this one... the commander of the department in which i was, now he is my brother, because we are two commanders of the department, and even then he was a brother , then he even told him, he says so, i didn't understand why i have nocturnal shift is not together with the flap, he says, why did you move me, well, i have a callsign flap, yes, he says, why did you move me , we even found out why he is like that, he says, why did you move me, we are with the flap at night about the story we talk, and you moved me, he says no, no, put me back on duty with him, yes, even this one, there are different, there are different stories, that is, in... basically, the guys have a request for this and here maybe i will even say

more about the entire structure of the armed forces that a request is a request for this is a request for this is as simple as that one of the guys is interested in history and asks for something explain the second point more - that in 2022, you mentioned that there was a people's war, and that is, really, when i came to... the army on the 24th, tsk, there i also underwent military medical training for a long time commissions and so on, and the very next day, the 25th, i came. there was supposed to be a division into brigades, and i saw already on the 25th how simply the doors, the doors of the tsk were being broken by the volunteers, and then i somehow felt a very, very, great calm, that is, i saw, yes, then if so number, so let's hold on, i know from my other friends there who were also in kyiv, that is

, when they saw the number of people who left, that is, from it people, businessmen, millionaires and... to simple guys from borshchagivka or troeshchyna, that is, everyone united and when they left, there was also some kind of calm, well, although they were already coming quite close, we know that they came quite close there, and vorzel later irpin, later bucha is close to you, well, that is, is it moschun or others, but a certain peace because of this, and what i am leading this to, now then there were volunteers, ugh, that is, people who had a very... clear reasoning, why, why and for what, having at the same time families, having three no, on i have three minor children, i have several brothers who are serving with me, who still, having all the grounds for dismissal, have continued to serve for 2.5 years, mobilization is currently underway, is it necessary, obviously yes, or is

such an argument morally strong-willed before by myself, does it exceed the one that would be in the 22nd, i think not, i think it is even a little lower, and that is why the question of history must be raised, it must be raised with the personnel, and this should actually be carried out by moral and psychological support, units of moral and psychological support, we have very cool examples of this, we have for example the third assault brigade, where our colleague historian oleksandr alforov also works. he is just engaged in moral and psychological support, i know examples of brigades that are now introducing such and such units into themselves, and that is, well, such there are units, but they are not developed, that is , they are, they are according to the internal instructions of the armed forces, but they are not developed to the scale to which they should be, that is , it is necessary to talk with the personnel, why this war did not start

on february 24, that is, i always i am correcting the interlocutor, well, you are probably like that too... it happened when the war started, i say friends, this war started on february 20 on the maidan of the 14th year, not this one with the shooting of the heavenly hundred, not on february 24, 22nd, well, if we take a deeper look, it is actually this war, as he says our colleague, volodya vyatrovych, she, this is our century-old war, it started at the beginning of the last century, simply because of the existence of the ukrainian people's republic. this is actually ours, our truly ukrainian state, if you look at it from a historical point of view and we are talking about the cossacks, then yes, this is it, these are ukrainian national entities, but still they are considered proto-states, and onr this we already have the entire state with all her attributes, but she just stood across the throat,

both white and red, but she was an orc, so orc and, well, she survived. the ukrainian state of that time did not last long and existed due to several factors, firstly, there were some disagreements in the leadership, some were pulled there, others here, and secondly, the people themselves did not really want to go and fight, because they did not understand what they were for are fighting, we still draw some historical parallels from time to time, you have a feeling that it resonates somewhere, how are we now different from..., maybe we have done some work on mistakes? i think so, well, that is, i am generally such an ardent optimist myself and i think, and see, and know, and believe that we have done the work on mistakes. the first point, which the ukrainian people's republic did not have, we have, is the support of the west, the ukrainian people's republic did not have this, that is , they, they were actually alone, there it was and it

was very difficult, if we take the same entente, that is, france and great britain, they supported. white guards, because it was white, if denikin wanted to capture kyiv, because he explained to his allies that kyiv is a city of the russian empire, well, they said, okay, well, like, well, that's it, now we have support for the west, two, we have a really strong army, that is, we have the armed forces of ukraine, not only the armed forces of ukraine, i do not want to offend my brothers and sisters of the defense forces of ukraine, that is... this is the national guard, this is the state border service, this is and the security service of ukraine, national police, insovoon, and we have really strong defense forces of ukraine, really strong armed forces. qualitatively, maybe not all units are there to the end, but in the end, work on it is going on, we have, in the vast

majority, i will not talk about 100%, but we have in the vast majority of the population the awareness that they are ukrainians, they have the state of ukraine, and so to these orks, yes, russians, and russians. the state its right to exist. er, our conversation is almost coming to an end, i will tell you one more such moment from your biography, if you google the name volodymyr birchak, it gives such information that i was born in 1881 , i was very well preserved, yes, but your picture, and it says that you are a ukrainian writer, a literary critic, a soldier of the ukrainian sich riflemen, er, this is a relative, this is a relative, but in him, well, firstly, that he is a distant relative, that is, i researched his biography, i have an archival and investigative file, because he was once

detained in was detained in prague, then imprisoned by the nkvd, but in our with him, apart from the fact that we are relatives, we have several things in common, he is a soldier of the ukrainian armed forces, i am a soldier of the armed forces of ukraine, in principle, two or two of two formations that fight for the freedom and independence of ukraine, and... he, like me, was once an archeologist, he's actually a cooler archeologist than me, although i also did archeology, well, i'm not a writer, i am actually a historian, although he is also a historian, as it is, and we also have a similarity, that we have the same ears, eh, i really hope that his life ended tragically, tragically, that is, a moscow boot trampled shortened the life of a person who could have done something for this country, i really want you to succeed in realizing all the plans you still have, i know what you want, that you

are actually finishing this book right now, and what it will be about , announce, well, this is actually a book, these are stories from the archives of the kgb, that is, this the ukrainian 20th century and it, this is what we do not know. this is something we do not know very well, maybe yes, maybe yes, that is, it is from the way ukrainian nationalists cooperated with the british mi-6 special service, went through special forces training and were dropped on landing planes on the territory of ukraine, maybe someone does not know much about this , to the participation of jews in the ukrainian insurgent army, so that one of them was actually a political consultant to the chief commander of the upa, and many such things that we either do not know about... enough or we don't know much, can we already talk about any plans when this book will appear? i think it's still too early, it will all depend on how quickly i can work on vacation

in the state of health i'm in now. eh, when will the vacation end? in september, and then what? back, front? front. volodya, thank you for this conversation, thank you, thank you for the invitation, for the conversation. for what you do both on the battlefield and on the battlefield to such and... dear friends, our guest was volodymyr birchak, sergeant of the armed forces of ukraine, historian, archivist, head of academic programs of the center for the study of the liberation movement and editor of historical truth, and we spoke with him. about history and about war and about how history is, how to make sure that the history of our previous losses does not repeat itself. stay with

espresso, thank you for being with us, my name is lesya vakulyuk. fm galicia. listen to yours. listen, in the pharmacy , everyone's condition will improve, the spasm will be relieved, bile helps. wait, it's coal, not black, bile. and not sour, nettle, but not stinging, garlic, not that, alochol, took it, alochol prevents gallstone disease and the development of cholecystitis, stimulates the secretion

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of ukraine. with the support of the konstantin zhivago charitable foundation. in september, there are discounts on amiksin ic 10% in podorozhnyk bam and oskad pharmacies. in september, there are discounts on magne b6 antistress. 15% at podorozhnyk-bam and oskad pharmacies. verdict with serhii rudenko. from now on in a new two-hour format. more analytics, more important topics, more. of guests: foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion on the bad day for with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and tune in, the verdict with serhii rudenko, from tuesday to friday from 20 to 22. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already approached the serpent himself. the following shots

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time to learn about the main news on this one hour, greetings to all who are from espresso, i'm a novice and i'm starting with this. in august , ukraine first used its palyanitsa drone missile against a military target in occupied crimea, ukrainian media reported, citing its own sources. earlier , volodymyr zelenskyi said that ukraine used its drone missile for the first time, but there were no details at the time. polyanytsia successfully

achieved its goal. operations. was complex and aimed at defeating several enemy objects. russia.