and we know that there were states, they were state institutions, they acted in different ways, but they were in different relations with the reich, but in one way or another they were participants as state institutions in the same holocaust, well , let's say there the croatian state paverić, it there was one attitude towards the holocaust, and there was the bulgarian state of tsar boris, and it was a different attitude towards the holocaust, but all this can be studied precisely as the work of state institutions and as their dialogue, if at all at that time... it was in a normal form with its own society , well, i was in bulgaria, the bulgarian demonstration against the deportation of bulgarian jews ended in success and saved people, but if the people do not have statehood, if individual representatives of this people, let them participate in these or other crimes in large numbers, i mean, not only the holocaust, i have referring there to the volyn tragedy, etc., can it be said that the people who do not have state institutions

are just as responsible for this or that big crime as the state institution, as the state as such, because it seems to me that in in our understanding and in the understanding, by the way of our neighbors, it is somehow evened out, i don't know how correct it is, it is clear that especially in the context of the second world war, especially in the context of the holocaust, there are countries and... states that conquer and control other peoples and other territories, impose on them a certain model of ideological behavior and so on, and of course they find a level of collaborators and collaboration, but these are these are these captured territories, well, relatively speaking, what is the responsibility of people in a concentration camp, in the same nazi one. that which

one way or another they take, participate in some things related to crimes, apparently, we do not attach much responsibility to this, a little more freedom in the conditions in the conditions of the occupation, but again it is quite limited, but - responsibility there are certainly, of course, also for me here... very important, for example, i will leave the second world war and the situation of the holocaust a little, but they are what i will talk about, they are connected, this is the issue of today's russian aggression against ukraine, is it putin's war, is it war russia, and it is clear that putin is a very important figure in all this, in all this history, but it is also a product produced by russian society, as ... was provoked or

produced by german society, and this society creates this model of the state and this model behavior, and that pattern of behavior creates that society, so i think that means the limit of how much it is some kind of regime that occupied de jura country or de facto, that 's an important component, but there's a responsibility. there is joint responsibility, there is social responsibility, and especially when it comes to what you do with this experience of yours, which is negative, which is criminal, and so on, how you feel about it, this, this, if we talk about the historical component, this seems to me to be the most important component, well then, if you turned to the topic of russia, then we can also ask a question here, which was very relevant for the first time. months of the war,

there is not much talk about him now, but i also tried to think about him and now i think that it is not the responsibility of the russian peoples of russia, but the russians really have their own state, and indeed, this state gave birth to vladimir putin in one way or another, and it is not even a question of national origin, because in the russian leadership there are people of different national origins, serhii sheigu, that crown, let's say by ethnic origin, but it is clear that all these people serve the russian . chauvinism in one or another of its forms, and here are the peoples of russia, who have quasi -states that essentially do not protect their interests, where their national languages ​​are not studied, where their national culture, their heritage is distorted, where everything is done to to prove their second-rateness and second-rateness, they are as responsible as the russians for this war, remember how even russian propaganda tried at the beginning of the war.

it is customary to talk about the buryats and tuvans, and many of us accepted this, and the facts indicated, you see, there were buryats in our village here in the kyiv region, they acted like beasts, the kadyrivians acted even more like beasts, and as if from the russians, who essentially created this state and this army, this aggression, who need ukraine as their original land, type the responsibility was transferred to small nations, which in principle are very far from all this, even from europe, but they became much more responsible and cruel than those who started this war and those who have their own, if you will, state in this war. .. the interest, of course, is this, this, this is a classic imperial imperial practice, that is , you conquer territories, then you use these territories, this is this population to

actually continue your imperialist war, and then you can, you can hide behind them, i.e. this is this this is not the first time... this is the first time it happens, that is, all these wild divisions and so on, that is, you can later say that it is not us, it is this asians came somewhere in europe and did something there and so on , and here we have tcheikovsky, we read, we admire gotte and so on and so on, that is, these and these things have already happened, these things have already happened, the responsibility of these peoples as such... well, i don't have any specific formula much to talk about, but i do have a very specific parallel that i think might help we have to think about it. what is our responsibility for what the soviet union

did in the same eastern europe in the 39th and 40th years, for what it did in europe after the 45th. year, that is, actually in ukraine, ukraine did not have sovereignty, ukrainians did not have sovereignty. on the other hand, well, the ukrainian party elite was one of the most influential in the soviet union, that is, i researched the kyiv one, i researched the history of the caribbean crisis, well, the key decisions about whether or not to shoot down an american plane over cuba were made in... one of the generals was named grechka, the other was pumpkin, that is, whether it was buckwheat and pumpkin, that is, i do not know who they were in terms of self-identity, that is , the question is ethnic or territorial, that is, it is a difficult question, but this is this quite a real

and important question, and i think it will be better for us today to answer the question about the buryats and the provinces, thinking about us and our family. well, this is probably still of great importance, we talked at the beginning of our conversation about all these new russian textbooks, but it has the meaning is also the context, if you want to forge it in an imperial or non-imperial narrative, even from soviet times, you see, i thought about it just when i was in a beard and looked at this shot monument of shevchenko during the shevchenko awards ceremony. that shevchenko was, in one way or another, a soldier of the russian empire, who in fact always ridiculed and branded this empire and created in his poetry such an image of this russian empire that we were all brought up on, and which are an alternative to the image of the russian empire known to russians, i

i don't even mean from history books, because i think culture can be more powerful than history. in the soviet union , they used to talk about the fact that the russian empires oppressed other peoples, at least until the 17th year, but students in the schools of soviet russia taught lermontov, they taught pushkin, about georgia, which flourished under the price of friendly bayonets, about the polish uprising, the disputes of the slavs among themselves, and the best russian poets wrote this, in beautiful words, in beautiful works, with landscapes. i would say those countries which were conquered by the russian army, whether in the caucasus, whether in poland or ukraine, some of the best ukrainian landscapes were created by pushkin in the poem mazepa, which is essentially an imperial myth about maze and such

a response to byron's fascination, and on the other hand were students of the schools of soviet ukraine, we learned all this in schools, from moldovan to finnish, everything is silent in all languages. chorek sakle is all yours, i remember it from childhood, and this, i would say, could create an anti-imperial narrative, and also pavlo grabovskyi, and also ivan... and also lesya ukrainka, all these poets were anti-imperial at a time when their russian, one might say, contemporaries, the best of their russian contemporaries, praised the empire, and this is already, you know, a pitfall for centuries of misunderstanding, yes, you remembered shevchenko’s words about from moldovan to finn, finns are also mentioned in the will. should consider him his

national poet, and his national poet, yes, yes, yes, that is, these, these, these are very, these, these are very different narratives, and they seemed to be present, in particular in ukraine, and at the same time in in the lessons of russian literature, another in the lessons of ukrainian literature, but... the question is also that the children, who studied it, so, well, there are creations, which are formed, which are formed by the teacher, and the understanding of what is read is also formed by the teacher , and because of this, i would like to emphasize the importance, the importance of the role of the teacher and the importance of the role of the interpreter in all this, in all this history, and... because non-willing could and did happen in fact in

any texts, that is, that shevchenko himself was appropriated by the soviet, soviet literary narrative, after the end of the soviet union, tamara gondorova wrote, wrote a book about frankon and stonemason, yes, that is, franko was only a stonemason, shevchenko was only a serf. in, so, the coat that he, so, he put on specifically for the photo shoot, uh, and, this, this is the question of what we do with our heritage, how we try to understand it, and i'm joining this conversation now from cambridge, the united states of america, where great debates are now unfolding regarding decolonization russian or russian-centric. the history of literature, where in fact almost for the first time in

the mainstream, that is, the main questions are questions about the imperial, the key imperial narrative of russian literature, which imperialism was recognized as the basis of french and english literature, but somehow russian actually remained the subject of absolute adoration and idealization and... and this is changing now, it is changing because of the events in ukraine, and specifically because of the ukrainian, ukrainian resistance, so i would just like to say that these these these these processes not only concerns ukraine or the post-soviet space, in general the image of the post-soviet space, the russian space in the world, and its trigger for these... discussions was precisely the opposite of ukraine. well, we can say that ukrainians can

be not only witnesses, but also participants in this reinterpretation of the russian imperial cultural narrative and the russian imperial past, because it seems to me that we are not fully giving an account even to ourselves today in the role in which this russian heritage played a part in shaping even the current ukrainian perception of the world. this situation, which opened thanks to the heroism of the ukrainian army, the ukrainian people, will not last forever, if we want to somehow influence it, we need to be included in these processes, we need to speak, we need to communicate, sometimes it is very difficult, i.e. look at the current discussion on the ukrainian internet about good russians, that is, the idea of ​​communication... with anyone is actually excluded, it is interpreted as a possible

betrayal, but what does it mean, does it mean creating at this key moment a ghetto where we remain our own truth, and limit our ability to actually affect the change of wider narratives and perceptions of ourselves and the world around us, again this is a unique opportunity, somehow to waste, which of my... point of view, it would be a crime, well, there is still a big question, to what extent the russian community itself, even the emigration, even liberal, is ready for a discussion, if it does not ask. community, i would say, and its cultural-historical preferences on a pedestal, because that's how people can oppose putin, but they still have no doubt that russia is the center of this whole civilization, anyone who thinks otherwise is either an enemy or someone who is fooling around for hype, to put it simply, i totally

understand what you mean say, i know such people, but i also know other people. which did not exist until 2022, which have appeared now, and we must talk to these people as well. well, i mean, it seems to me that russian society itself, at least partially, should do its own work on mistakes, realize at least the weight of one's own culture in the world context. it seems to me that this is also a soviet influence, mr. serhiu, because in the soviet union everyone was sincerely convinced that they were aware of the role of their own culture and what... uh, they can compare with world cultural values, and this is a complete lie , because soviet culture existed in a certain isolation from the world cultural context and from the historical context and from the scientific context, and only now can people have the opportunity to understand the real weight of their cultural and scientific heritage, on the scales

of a common history with the world, and the majority does not want to do this. yes, that is, there is hiding behind the idea, that is, of a separate civilization, uniqueness, and so on, if we are a separate civilization, then of course, of course, anything that happens here is unique, it does not need any dialogue with the surrounding, because it, because it's different, it's different, and, it, it, it's, it's a very serious, very serious problem, and... but uh, changes have begun, and we have the opportunity to either support these changes, or isolate ourselves and not support and it means to submit it, it means to give it to someone else, we can support actually open the way for some interpretations, which

will actually be completely different, if not... contradictorily we compare with our experience, with our ideas, that is, not to enter the door, which were opened by the ukrainian army and the ukrainian people, it was strategic. well then, this is also very important to understand, we can enter any door that, if we do not consider ourselves to be some separate civilization that is constantly trying to make a bicycle, and what... should ukraine be in europe in the future, what should be its place in europe, what do you think, ending our conversation, well , today ukraine appeared in europe as if in some robes, in the backstage of a knight, i don't know , defender of the border of the european

border, ukraine. went to war with the russian army, which only the finns were ready for in the 40th year, the poles could not fight on two sides for various reasons, in the year 68 czechoslovakia did not even try to do it, hungary did not succeed, that is, in such a large industrial large-scale war we arise as a warrior, and it was not, it was not our choice, it was not the choice of ukraine, eh, and eh, thus we have already entered, then the question of entering, socially, economically, civilizationally, culturally, eh, and here, here

the biggest question for us is... even about democracy, although now there are big question marks about how far we will be able to survive the military experience and remain a democracy, i still remain an optimist here, but the issue of rule of law, i.e. in fact , as far as we can be a people, a nation, a country that will make the law. above, above any other, ethnic, social, economic and so on, the interests of certain groups, that is, it is, is the key issue. but it seems to me, purely from a military point of view, that is, we, we chose a place, we, we, we, we create and continue the border, the border

of europe further east, that is, from my point of view, it is a matter of time, such integration, integration in the understanding a secure europe and the provision of this security, but culturally, ukrainian and american historian serhiy dear viewers, our guest was a well-known good luck, see you soon! see this week in the collaborators program. new faces of treason in kherson region, to whom did the occupiers

hand the mandate of the minister of education? happy russia day, happy day of the powerful country in which we live and work. but who russifies ukrainian educational institutions? kherson region together with russia. greetings, i'm olena kononenko, and this collaborators program is about traitors who follow the call of the heart and wallet. write to serve the roshi occupiers. in today's edition, i will continue to talk about the traitors of our state. the collaborators themselves must to know, there will be no quiet betrayal. it will not be possible to sit in the chair of the official of the seller and not get suspicion. meet raiko galina oleksandrivna, born in 1977, originally from the city of gola prystan in the kherson region. my dear colleagues and students, i have made my choice. i... i believe in your consciousness, in your awareness that you and your families will come to the polling station and do your civic duty. in 2000, rayko

graduated from the kherson national technical university with a degree in economics enterprises. in 2019, she obtained another degree in the same higher education, majoring in computer science. in her peaceful life, halyna headed the department of information technology at the kherson national technical university. small rank. candidate of technical sciences, was the author of a number of scientific publications, at first glance, a very educated person, and raiko showed her true nature during the occupation, which we lay the future from the point of view of patriotism, from the point of view of upbringing, from the point of view of the foundation of education, a person who loves her the land that sees the vector of her development, her vector of development, more precisely... galina saw dacia together with russia, so when kherson was occupied, she set her sights on the position of rector of the kherson national technical university, where she

worked. we believe that kherson technical university and our student-teachers have a great future in the great country. the russians in kherson russified everything, so the university was no exception. hanging a dirty tricolor rag on his building. they made it pseudo-russian technical university, the rector's chair was given to galina raiko. her tasks were to find teachers loyal to the kremlin and to convince students to enter this particular educational institution. kherson region together with russia. also, according to zmi, raiko organized a scheme to transport kherson youth under forged powers of attorney to the occupied crimea, allegedly for rehabilitation. after the stated two. during the weeks of vacation on the black sea coast , no one returned them home, in sanatoriums controlled by the russians from ukrainian schoolchildren and students for several months they tried to make the russians.

at the same time, raiko forced students to collect humanitarian aid for the chmobyks and personally held actions in schools where she forced ukrainian children to write letters to russian soldiers. for two months, the center of patriotic education together with the students of khyta. when the ssu liberated kherson from the invaders, raiko gave drapak to genichest, where the russians moved all their pseudo-institutions, where she continues to play the role of rector. during the evacuation process , kherson university was located at the territory of henichesk. i would like to say that students... have a special desire for face-to-face education, because the student-teacher contact is very important. now the case

of this entanglement is being considered. odesa district court, she herself is hiding. we very much hope for raiko's arrest as soon as possible and the maximum sentence for high treason. bogdan volodymyrovych kaznavetskyi, 199 , born in henichesk, organizes car races in honor of the flag of the russian federation. the event is dedicated to the day of the national flag of russia. as we can see today, there are participants representatives of various departments and ministries. from a young age, bohdan showed love for everything. his russian as a student, in 2020, he became a deputy of the henichiv city council from opzh. in parallel with this , he worked as an animator and was the head of the children's youth library of the henichiv city council. he was called a showman. but with the occupation of the city, bohdan decided that his truly stellar time had come. he started showmaning already for russians. he assumed the position of the so -called first deputy head of

the military-civilian administration of heniche. despite all the events taking place today in our country, it is necessary to carry out exactly such measures in order to unite the people and lead to one goal. today , our goal is one: the future together with russia. in the deputy's chair, he organized solemn celebrations in honor of the occupiers and brought humanitarian aid from russia to henichitsk. he enjoyed singing the praises of the russians so much that later it became his profession. bohdan was given the corresponding position of deputy head of department in the fake ministry of culture kherson region. according to the orders of the president of the russian federation, vladimir vladimirovich putin, museums of the svo are being created. our heroes, our defenders, of course, they will not stay away. and as you emphasize, this chapter will go down in history. in addition to opening exhibitions in honor of the so-called special operation, bohdan restores monuments

to the great. nanny of the war and returns soviet names to the streets. for such a strong love for the russian world, in june 2023, kaznabetsky received suspicion from our law enforcement agencies. as it turned out, the traitor tried to induce employees of educational institutions to cooperate with the occupiers, threatened to close educational institutions and turn them into military barracks. he also organized pseudo-elections for the position of the russian headman of the village of rivne, henichiv district. his case is already in khersonsk. city ​​court. we hope that soon bohdan will come from a comfortable office in the fake ministry to a less respectable, but so appropriate cell for him in a ukrainian prison. this exhibition once again proved that russia is a great country. and this is another traitor from henichesk, koftun lyudmila mykhailovna was born in 1974. she graduated from the kherson national pedagogical university before

the full-scale invasion of russia. country , she worked as an economist in the genetics department of education, and after february 24, she decided to forget all ukrainian and began to study russian, happy russia day, happy day to the powerful country in which we live and work for its benefit, love, create families and raise children. at first , kovton became the deputy head of the genichesky department of education, later she received a promotion and sat in the chair the pseudo-minister of education of the occupied part. kherson region. as our law enforcement agencies found out, in order to win the favor of the occupiers, she drew up a program for studying in schools according to russian standards, in a short time changed all ukrainian literature in educational institutions to russian, called teachers to work for russia and threatened them. russians and ukrainians are the only people that some countries want to divide now. but we have public ones. family

ties, common language, culture, it is impossible to separate us. if the russians chose one hard-nosed minister of education, one can only imagine the quality of education in the swamps. for her work for the occupiers, lyudmila was suspected of collaborating. now the case of this traitor is being considered by the kherson city court of the kherson region, and who knows, maybe a long prison term will force lyudmila to learn that we and... russians are not a single people, and ukrainian culture and language are unique and inimitable. so you can burn our literature as much as you want, but fire, as you know, does not burn for the hellish. ashes and ashes are what will remain of the dead empire, and every traitor to our state will be behind bars if he survives. it was the program collaborators and i, olena kononenko. if you want to tell us about the kremlin progenitors, write to this

email address or. we'll just send everyone together on facebook.