can fully learn its lessons: the anschluss of austria and the annexation of crimea, the protection of the german-speaking population of czechoslovakia and the protection of all russian-speaking people, the idea of ​​blitzkrieg without declaring war, although the third reich still declared war on the soviet union. the german ambassador handed the corresponding note to molotov, but russia is still afraid to call its attack a war. my name is myroslav osochanskyi. in this program, we will look for historical analogies with modern ones. of the russian-ukrainian war, and we will do it with our guest, this is volodymyr birchak, historian and sergeant of the armed forces of ukraine, head of academic programs of the liberation movement research center. volodymyr, congratulations. congratulations. so, our modern russian-ukrainian war, many historians draw analogies with the first world war. even yaroslav hrytsak called this war the first world war with drones. how appropriate it is to say so, how similar is this war and the first world war. well, i

really agree here in certain moments, but most likely i do not support this thesis and this statement, because it is actually completely different wars first, well, i read gretsek's theses, why he thinks so, well, that is, the fact that during the first world war, in fact , everything there revolved around ukraine, and well, now the modern russian-ukrainian war, which, well, it is still obviously not the paraslavs. war, but everything is equal, that is, there are spheres of influence, say, there are the 404 countries, iran, china, and others, their allies, and there are our western partners, and, well, that is, there is such a junction of the eastern and western worlds on the territory of ukraine, and still they, they are excellent, let's analyze the methods by which, the russian federation is waging war against us, and the amount of brutality that is applied to the civilian population, and

the amount of brutality that is applied to the military, or was it like that in the first world war, okay, i understand that you can mention there verdun, somme, nachatel, yes, these were very bloody battles, but still we can compare, these were specific battles, these were battles, but we can compare by comparison the joint celebrations of christmas or easter that took place, as in the western front, and we even have hollywood movies about it, we have a football match. joint examples of celebrating, say, easter on our eastern front, where soldiers of the tsarist and royal armies of the austro-hungarian empire, who were overwhelmingly ukrainians, met with soldiers of the russian imperial army, who were also ukrainians, and they also celebrated easter together, that is, such things cannot happen now in the modern russian-ukrainian war, and let's talk further about whether there were examples of such abuse of a peaceful population, as russia is doing now? okay, there were

bombings, there were bombings, there were shelling of cities, but still , the kind of war that is being waged against the civilian population was not waged . next, let's take the factor of prisoners of war, let's remember, let's say, yevhen konovalets, the future head of the un, or andriy melnyk, who later became the head of the oun, so to speak melnykivsky, as it is customary to call them, they sat in a camp for prisoners of war, because both of them. were soldiers of the austro-hungarian army, the troops of the austro-hungarian empire, they sat in tsaritsyn, yes, well, later it was stalingrad, now volgograd, yes, and then they created a camp of snipers, and then they created the galician-bukovinsk camp of snipers, and when you read how they sat in tsaritsyn, you get the impression that they also read newspapers there, and had free time, and then at one point they decided that they had to leave that tsarina, so they came to kyiv to create galician beechs... ss, as they

were called, sich marksmen, and so on let's take as an example the colonies where they are sitting now our boys and girls, shall we take olenivka, and such, and other things, that is, it does not go into comparison, that is, of course there are similar moments, but this is a completely different war, and i would not compare, that is, that one, i often read memoirs from the first world war, that is, there, let’s say, is it not me, although... partly the memoirs of erich maria remarque on the western front without changes, yes, because there is a note of biography, biographical, or there are intimate places of fortune, one of the best, in my opinion, works of art about the first world war, or memoirs about the first world war, and i see how the soldiers faced these problems then, and myself, sometimes i catch myself thinking that i am there in 2024 facing the same problem, margaret mcmillan is a famous

canadian researcher of the history of war, that is, or whatever they call themselves there, well, historians of warriors, but they are not military historians, but historians of warriors, she belongs to the cohort of these historians. and she gives such interesting examples, there, say, how a junior officer came on leave from the fields of flanders to britain, and there, say, one sergeant, being with his brother, they dined in london, he didn't like his lunch, he didn't like anything, he just sat, looked around and wondered why there were so many people without military uniforms, well, this is somewhere the same moment that a military man sees, i'm sorry, sees in... in 2004 and , that is, when he returns to the rear from the front, he does not understand this, and, that is, when you stay for a long time, maybe you get involved somewhere, so to speak, in this thing, but there are such moments that the soldiers experienced there during the first world war, that's how they feel now, well, i'm

sure that they were like that during the second world war the moments themselves were, we can name, so there are certain moments of similarity, but i would not say that these wars are very similar to the rest. already final, i doubt that the kaiser's germany wanted to completely and completely destroy france as such, so i have a very, very big question here, i.e. did any ziriv germany see that there would be portraits of its kaiser somewhere in the nation and the like, i don’t think so, that is, they still were, but it was an imperialist war, and there were a lot of images of one state against another, but after all, it was not a war like... there is an occupation type that russia wants now, it does not just want to occupy all of ukraine, it wants to destroy ukrainians as such, destroy, assimilate, because we and russia are always standing in front of the throat, we always stand before our throats, in our country, when the world ended

the first world war, a new war began in us, a civil war, as russian propaganda liked to say, although it is not civil, it was the bolsheviks who attacked ukrainian lands, and here i am personally very similar this war modern with the war that was then, well , at least the prerequisites that were, the creation of those bolshevik soviet republics, which now we have those separatist unrecognized republics that russia created in the 14th year, then, for example, the 19th year the bolshevik army attacks the directory, it says that it does not attack, does not declare war, the same way now, that is, russia is attacking, they have svo, they have no war, they have been working according to the same methods for 100 years. absolutely, absolutely, his own for some time, a friend and i from the ukrainian institute of national remembrance, who is now also in the ranks of the armed forces of ukraine with serhiy ryabenko, we developed and researched these issues, even wrote an article about hybrid wars, which are 100 years old, and there are very similar

techniques, well that is, let's remember the year 1917 , we have a central council, and here the bolsheviks announce an ultimatum to the central council, they gather. go to suppress the uprising on the don, and they say that if the central rada does not help them suppress it, then it will oh-oh-oh, how bad. in the central council, i don’t know, you can say in english, they probably thought like this, what the fuck, well, that is, what, what, what, what do you have to do with us, well, and the second question, there, if the central council there does not stop disarming , soldiers of the russian imperial army, who went over to the side of the reds, then again there will be problems in the central rada. okay, we mentioned this a little before the story. the bolsheviks decided to suppress the uprising on the don, well , somehow they went to the don in such a way that they entered kharkiv, and in kharkiv they announced banally speaking, the people's republic of china, and the kharkiv people 's republic, conditionally, and, that is, they put their puppet government there, for which all this was done, here is an interesting episode because

at this moment in brest-litovsk the first peace talks in the great war began . and the bolsheviks were the initiator, that is, there was a quarter union, the bulgarian kingdom, the ottoman empire. tsarist germany, the austro-hungarian empire, and even the bolsheviks wanted to bargain for themselves. and here we should pay tribute to our diplomacy at that time, because the ukrainian diplomats mobilized very quickly and said: oh, they are negotiating about ukraine without ukraine, which we can now sometimes notice in international politics. by and large, the fourth station wagon was actually accepted because of this, actually, actually, and then the diplomats left, and here we must give credit to the germans, because the germans said. "well, listen, there is, there is an autonomous state, and, well, at that time the third station wagon, and the front passes through the territory of the ukrainian people's republic, ah, we don't see any objections, well, the bolsheviks declare that what are they for the self-determination of peoples, well

, what is the question, so the representatives of the unr should be here, yes, and the bolsheviks, just then, they captured kharkiv to show, but no, the central council of the unr, they are illegitimate, from us here in kharkiv". khnr, they played with all this, well, it ended, well, this is so as not to occupy the airwaves, it ended, thank god, successfully for ukraine, because it ended with the signing of the brezlytov peace treaty on february 8, when there was already time and... not even hours, minutes and seconds count, because the bolsheviks almost occupied kyiv, i.e. the ukrainian troops were there only for holy purposes, but at that moment they managed to sign a peace treaty on the recognition of ukraine as independent, on the provision of military aid, and why am i saying this ? well , he was poked right in the nose, you are talking about self-determination. peoples, your troops are now fighting against the central rada, this is actually

when they were cool, and what trotsky said, but they are not there, he said almost verbatim what in the 14th year, putin will declare that they are not there, well, that is, they even repeat phrases one after the other, that is, absolutely , this hybrid war, which began in our country in the 14th year, they actually did not invent anything new , and they all this period until the 22nd , they are from... now they don’t come up with anything particularly new, i, as the deputy director of the sbu archive, worked with them, i sifted through a lot of these documents, and i am now with them, well, now during full-scale less i work with them, before i worked with them, and we we see repetition, repetition, repetition, that is, they take the communist patterns that you and i have just talked about in some of our spy games, in matters of disinformation. in matters of creating a fifth column on the territory of ukraine, they use the old kgb methods, that is, the ephesians

do not invent anything new there, they take old kgb things, maybe hang a little christmas tree decorations on them to make it look a little fresher and start implementing it in the same way this is the situation when it started a large-scale invasion, i remember when people wrote in the comments why, if russia did not declare war on us, we do not declare war on them, here the 19th year is very reminiscent, when the bolsheviks fell on us ... the directory says: you you attack us, the bolsheviks say, we are not there, then the directorate says, since you attacked us, we declare war on you, and the bolsheviks are like that, then you attacked us, you declared war, that's actually the same thing that will look like those aggressors, very often compared in our information space the modern russian-ukrainian war with the finnish war, the winter war of 39-40 years, is actually compared because of the fact that little finland was able to fight back, and this example, for me personally, is an example of how moscow's self-confidence played an evil joke on it, because finnish war, well, many people say that hitler

attacked the soviet union precisely because he saw that the soviet union was weak in finland. how appropriate is the analogy here? well, this analogy, in my opinion, it is interesting, because really, you know, very often pictures are circulating on the network, there is a map of the world and it is shown how small ukraine is, how big the russian federation is, that this small proud... and freedom-loving country can withstand more than 10 years of war and already such an active full-scale phase for 2.5 years and this this is quite a good comparison, well , i really agree with him, the only thing i know is that it is looking forward to the war and the end of the war, well, that is, on the one hand, you and i are two historians now, we are reading history. winter war, and it can be like that somewhere it is perceived, well, okay, like, they lost part

of the territory, but the guys defended themselves, that is, they gave the soviets in the nose, and they gave kindly and gave painfully, but - they lost part of the territory, finland, let's be honest, finland after the second world war, in it there was a fairly serious soviet influence and fear, actually until the 22nd year, and fear and... influence until they joined nato, this is true, that is, because i have colleagues from finland who are historians, we correspond, chat , and until this moment, until the finns joined nato, they still felt this nit, but now it’s somehow easier for them, and at this moment, which now, i think you also notice it, there is already quite a serious welcome in the infospace about what is possible somewhere at the end of the year, at the beginning of the second , we will be tested in 2025. to put up with, so that we don't get a finnish scenario, despite the fact that the finnish scenario, maybe it will still be half-baked, it

will be somewhere mediocre, and simply, if the orcs take a break for two or three years and then with new strength they will hit, well, here i am here, i don't even want to be an analyst and engage in forecasts, although it seems to me that the forecasts are not too positive and promising for us. the sources of war are people, the sources of war are weapons, the sources of war are money and the sources of war are... ideology and propaganda, probably such a textbook example of traditional war with extremely powerful ideology and extremely powerful propaganda is the second world war, and putin. copies hitler in many respects, and accordingly, if hitler had nazism, then putin wants to create his ideology of racism, how much similarity is there in this direction, how ideological the component in this war is important from the side, in particular of the russians, whether they are in principle and ideology, and with regard to propaganda, where there is still more propaganda, because it seems to me that

the modern russian-ukrainian war can also be called a war of propaganda, and this is very good question i will start from the end, well, that is , if you compare, i think you have seen a lot of such comparative materials on the internet, when you compared nazi propaganda and soviet propaganda, that is, they are very similar to each other, well, that is, some posters are simply one only inscriptions in one there in russian, that is, there in german, there in russian, and it seems to me that russia does not have an ideology as such. and in principle, the ideology of nazism, it is different, well, because the ideology of nazism, it had a racial basis in itself, russians, in principle, do not have such a racial basis, well, that is, by fighting with ukraine, they want to destroy ukrainians as such, but, let's say, on their side, it was also interesting for me to analyze it from my own

experience, because we were with the boys in the donbas, in the northern donbas, and the buryats fought against us. no, well, the russians were there, obviously, but the buryats formed the basis there, then we were the kharkiv counter-nats, so we were lower, lower than kupyansk. ossetians fought against us. when we were on the sweeps in southern kharkiv oblast, we communicated with the local population, there were just gunners and tankers who were standing there, who were shelling us right in krasnopil, in donetsk oblast, they were tongust. and now there in the sumy oblast opposite us are the chechens, why is this all me, i.e. these are all enslaved peoples, a typical imperial army, yes, and here i am interested in analyzing what, say, back in 2000, 2009 is considered the official year, the official year of the end of the second chechen war, the war of the free-loving people really, and how look how

the paradigm changed in 5 years, that is, in 2014 the 15th or 15th chechens have already been in... the east of ukraine, and in fact for 5 years, and this freedom-loving people, which was exterminated, some went abroad, emigrated, some units were then created in ukraine, actually from representatives of chechens who fought against what they call kafirs, that is traitors, yes, and this is very interesting, this is an imperial war, and enslaved peoples who, in principle, could use this chance for their liberation, but they are... already assimilated so much, they are so uninterested in all this that they is it better for the same conditional buryat or tungus or tuvan to take 1,500 dollars from putin's hands, he is there in his aul or yurt or wherever he will be the king to go and kill ukrainians, than to think about what, listen, what a russian you are, well, uncle , what a russian you are

, well, you are a buryat, you are a tovinets, well you are not russian, but they are just playing with it, that is, they are there they... they are all russian people, and thus this, thus they are encouraged to participate, and a few more words about their propaganda, they are actually not even about theirs propaganda, and about ideology, she falters very much in them, well, in fact, my colleague and good friend french researcher hallia akerman in her book putin’s holy war against ukraine, she very much recommends this book, in fact, so that... if anyone else does not understand why putin attacked us, it is very clear there explained, and she brings out a few points, that 's what was in soviet propaganda, what they were proud of, they had a great county revolution, well, that is, they dealt with it like a beaten egg, because it was probably the only thing that was important to them, how could they spew imperial propaganda there, i.e.

tsarist, yes, and then the myth about the second world war appeared in them, and so on... he is already carrying it like a beaten egg, that is, he is constantly filling the number of these victims to show, there they are almost gone are equal to the chinese, they already have 32, 32 million was mentioned last time, it seems to me that they continue to prepare again and again, but this is not even the point, that is, he constantly declares that the soviet union defeated hitler, and forgetting non -stop allies, if i'm not mistaken, somewhere in my opinion trump blurted out such nonsense, i was recently. i need to check, but he seems to be such a fool, the one that when he was talking about putin, that the soviet union was great, he said that the union had defeated hitler, and forgetting about the allies, and well... that america, which had a landing in normandy and in africa, helped with all other things. so, this was the second myth that putin was dealing with and was dealing with in soviet times. well,

the third myth is that of the great soviet union, that superpower. well, once again putin's words that it was the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century, that sovok collapsed, thank god that collapsed. and aker brings it out. a very interesting moment, i.e., here too they have a lot of eclecticism in their ideology and propaganda, an interesting point about the fact that they begin to consider themselves, that is, the sacred defenders of orthodoxy, this is a point that, that is, in addition to the fact that they protect russian-speakers, was missed several times during the full-scale war that they will protect orthodoxy' i, because the evil fascists, the ukrainians, well, the fascists are obviously in quotes, they are trying to close it there, they have already taken away the kiev-pechersk lavra there, they are now trying to close the uoc mp as such in general and so on, they will protect the orthodox , well, they have almost no jihad

they announce, and here are all the moments, i really like one such example, to show the eclecticism of their propaganda and their ideology on the example of one film, you must have seen miroslava, this was once their film admiral about admiral kalchak. and unfortunately, unfortunately, this film was the highest-grossing in ukraine at the time, the highest-grossing in ukraine, and i also went to the cinema to see it, like, i went to see it, i was interested, but it is eclectic, why, first of all, what kolchak's character is not really revealed as such, that is , a lot is hung on him ideological things that were not characteristic of him, well, that is, let's remember for our listeners, viewers, at least one interesting moment, that kalchak's wife went to rallies organized by the central council in the same sevastopol, and it was really interesting that the ukrainian people's republic and obviously this this will not be shown in the russian film, and here is another moment, i.e.

rushing with all their soviet past, erecting monuments to stalin, not yet burying lenin with the mausoleum, they shoot admiral's film, a combination of white and red in one, white and red in one and at the end with li with li'. russian tudors only in a bad sense, yes, absolutely, a very cool comparison, and at the end the evil bolsheviks, well , obviously, well, the bolsheviks kill kalchak, sad, bad, disgusting, everyone cried, but i can’t understand this eclecticism in their heads , that is , they have stalin here, they cry for the soviet union, for the soviet union, they cry for their plumbers, for repressions, because they are already starting to cry for repressions, that is , they are crying for the great terrorist of 37-38, because stalin. for them, he was an effective manager, everything was okay, well, they killed our grandfathers and grandmothers a little there, but he was an effective manager, and here they still have a kolchak, that is, it's some kind of sur,

it's some kind of chaos, and it's so eclecticism, that i cannot call it an ideology, but they even used one of these elements against us, that is, they are a country, i will say in their language, a country that is the victor of fascism, something they call it. all the time , poor italians are brought there, but not nazism, and they, who defeated nazism, now they are going with a new campaign against the nazis living in ukraine, yes, where is our president, a jew, well, well, nothing terrible, well, everything is okay, but what is wrong here, where we have a jewish president, where we have one of the lowest-lowest levels of anti-semitism in europe, where your interlocutor considers the needle to be one of his profile topics. post and cooperates with the university of jerusalem, writes materials for them and is currently finalizing a book for them, well, they came to liberate us from nazism, you see, well, i never thought that at the end

they spoke for orthodoxy, i never thought that in my program i would quote, lord, forgive, patriarch kirill of moscow, he once said such a phrase, that russia has never attacked anyone, never attacked transnistria, never attacked chechnya, never georgia, never attacked syria and never. in no way did it attack ukraine either, these wars that russia waged during its independence and the modern war, as far as they are different and to the extent that they have similarities, so literally in a few words, if in a few words, then there is a similarity, well, probably here to syria, we simply cannot apply it, because in syria there, russia had to support its ally, and show itself , as if they are also an international player and participate in the decision. international conflicts, and if we take chechnya, georgia and ukraine as an example, these are all imperial wars, that is, these are all wars that russia cannot, cannot, get rid of. to

the fact that it was once the soviet union, they were a great country, because they, they consider themselves, actually the soviet union, and now someone is leaving their sphere of influence, that is, these are all imperial wars, obviously, of course, with all due respect to the long-suffering, both chechen and georgian peoples , the war in ukraine is several hundred levels higher, that is, it is truly the biggest conflict we have in the world since world war ii. wars, and there are similar moments, there are distinct moments, but the main similar moment is russia trying to keep its imperial influence and spread it further. hopefully, this will be an extreme war, not an extreme, the last war for russia, where it tries to implement these things. history is forced to repeat itself because no one is listening. peter lorenz. the task of ukrainians is to finally learn the lessons of the past and not step on

the same rake. my name is myroslav vysochanskyi, our guest was volodymyr birchak, a historian and sergeant of the armed forces of ukraine, the head of academic programs of the liberation movement research center. march discounts on bronchialik lollipops, 20% in psyllanyk, bam and oskad pharmacies. there are discounts for march on... son you get 10% in pharmacies plantain you and save. exclusively on the air of our channel. congratulations, friends, the politclub program is on the air on the espresso tv channel. the most relevant topics of the week: nato member countries have huge arsenals, and russia is already on the verge of exhausting

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foreign experts. from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion on a bad day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and turn on, the verdict with serhii rudenko, from tuesday to friday, from 20 to 22. congratulations, the way russian propagandists talked about the strikes. in ukraine on wednesday this week, i think it's important to hear, because it shows in a certain way how russia's tactics have changed in general, and also that it has not just become some kind of terrorist, you know, there's a state terrorist, no, it's not even a terrorist state anymore, it's just a terrorist organization of the russian federation, that's what we should call what's happening, hence the attack on lviv. on wednesday, the first thing

russian propaganda said was that she was happy that she got to the train station. the russian military struck several regions of ukraine, landing in lviv itself. according to the mayor, 20 rockets and seven uavs arrived in the region. one of the targets in lviv was the railway station. in these shots. data is coming from the lviv region: an explosion near the train station, which is used by the armed forces, the target could also be a training ground, tonight they worked very well in lviv, specifically, it was in the morning, when they still did not fully understand what happened there, moreover, well, in reality, the train station is nobody ...