our hotline at 11630, calls from all mobile operators in ukraine are free. we have created a resource through which you can report any crime against a child. in any place, at any time. just go to the site and report, and we will launch all possible mechanisms to punish the criminal. stopcrime ua. exclusively on the air of our channel. congratulations, friends, the politclub program is on the air on the espresso tv channel. the most relevant topics of the week. nato member countries have huge arsenals, and russia is already on the verge of exhaustion resources. topics that resonate in our society. this is the question of trump's victory, what is it? analysis of the processes that change the country and everyone. us, what else can

the russians do, are they able to use, let's say, the resources of the lukashenka army allied with them, vitaly portnikov and the guests of the project, read the entire presentation, accept my offer, thank you, it was difficult, i was just curious, but this is absolutely her, they help to understand the present and predict the future, offered by the united states concluded with us bilateral security of the agreement, a project for those who care and think politclub. every sunday at 20:00 at espresso.

they say that history is cyclical and constantly repeats itself, but maybe people just can't fully. learn her lessons. anschluss of

austria and annexation of crimea. protection of the german-speaking population of czechoslovakia and protection of all russian speakers. the idea of ​​blitzkrieg without declaring war. although the third reich still declared war on the soviet union. the german ambassador handed the appropriate note to molotov, but russia is still afraid to call its attack a war. my name is myroslav vesochanskyi. in this program, we will look for historical analogies of modern russian-ukraine. and we will do it with our guest, this is volodymyr birchak, historian and sergeant of the armed forces of ukraine, head of academic programs of the center for studies of the liberation movement. volodymyr, congratulations. congratulations. so, our modern russian-ukrainian war, many historians draw analogies with the first world war. even yaroslav hrytsak called this war the first world war with drones. how appropriate is it to say so, how similar is this war and the first world war?

well, i really agree here in certain moments, but most likely i do not support this thesis and this statement, because these are actually completely different wars, first, well, i mean, i read gretzak’s theses, why does he think so, well, that is, that in the period during the first world war, in fact, everything there revolved around ukraine, and now there is a modern russian-ukrainian war, which, well, it has obviously not yet grown into a world war. but everything is equal, that is, there are spheres of influence, let's say there are 404 countries, iran, china and their other allies, and there are our western partners, and well that is, there is such a junction of the eastern and western worlds on the territory of ukraine, and yet they, they are excellent, let's analyze the methods by which the russian federation is waging war against us, and the amount of cruelty that is applied to... the civilian

population, and the amount of cruelty applied to military personnel, was it like that in the first world war, okay, i understand that you can mention verdun, somme, nachatel there. yes, they were very bloody battles, but still we can in comparison, they were specifically battles, they were battles, but in comparison, we can recall the joint celebrations of christmas or easter, which took place both on the western front, and we even have golovski films on this occasion, a football match, we have joint examples of celebrations, let's say a big day in our eastern front, where the soldiers of the caesarian and royal troops of the austro-hungarian empire, most of whom were ukrainians, met with soldiers of the russian imperial army. who were also ukrainians, and they also celebrated easter together, that is, such things now in the modern russian-ukrainian war , it cannot be, and let's talk further, were there examples of such abuse of the civilian population, as russia is doing now, okay, there were

bombings, there were bombings, there were shelling of cities, but still against the civilian population there was no such war as is being waged now, let’s take the factor of... prisoners of war from viskovo, let’s remember, let’s say, where is yevhen konovalets, the future head of the un, or andriy melnyk, who later became the head of the oun, so to speak, of melnyk, as is customary to name, they sat in a camp for prisoners of war, because both were soldiers, of the austro-hungarian army, the troops of the austro-hungarian empire, they sat in tsaritsyn, yes, well, it later became stalingrad, now volgograd, yes, and then they created a camp of snipers , and then they created galicia-bukovinsk. the smokehouses of the sich snipers, and when you read how they sat in tsaritsyn, you get the impression that they read newspapers there and had free time, and then at one point they decided that they had to leave that tsaritsyn and came to kyiv to create galician galician-bukovinian

aces, as they were called, sich shooters, well , let's take for example the colonies where our boys and girls are sitting now, or take olenivka, and such and... and other things, that is, it does not go into comparison, that is , there are of course similar moments, but this is a completely different war, and i would not compare, that is, the one, i often read memoirs from the first world war, that is, there, let's say, is it not me, although partly the memoirs of erich maria remarka in the western at the front without changes, because there is a note of biography, biographical, or there are intimate places of fortune, one of the best, in my opinion, artistic. works about the first world war or memoirs about the first world war, and i see that as soldiers faced these problems then, i sometimes catch myself thinking that i am there in 2024 facing the same problem, margaret macmillan, famous a canadian researcher of the history of war,

that is, or whatever they call themselves there, well , historians of warriors, but they are not military historians, but historians of warriors, she belongs to the cohort of these historians. she leads such interesting examples, there, let's say, how a junior officer came on leave from the fields of flanders to britain, and there, let's say, one sergeant, being with his brother, they were having lunch in london, he didn't taste the lunch, he didn't taste anything, he just sat, looked around and wondered why there were so many people without military uniforms, well, this is somewhere the same moment that a military man sees, i apologize, sees in 2004 and, that is, when he returns to the rear from the front, he does not understand this , that is, when you stay for a longer time, maybe you are somewhere, so to speak, you get involved in this matter, but there are such moments, which the soldiers experienced there during the first world war, they are experiencing the same way now, well, i am sure that during the second world war

there were the same moments, we can name, that is, there are certain moments of similarity, but i wouldn't say that these wars are very similar, in the end already... final, i doubt that the kaiser's germany wanted to completely and completely destroy france as such, well , i have a very, very big question here, that is, whether the kaiser's germany saw that there would be portraits of her kaiser somewhere in there i don't think so, it was an imperialist war, and there were a lot of images of one state against another, but after all, it was not the kind of war that exists in... of the kind that russia wants now, it doesn’t just want to occupy all of ukraine, it wants to destroy ukrainians as such, destroy, assimilate, because we and russia are always at each other’s throats . the first world war, a new war began in us,

a war, as russian propaganda liked to say civil, although it is not civil, the bolsheviks attacked ukrainian lands, and for me personally, this war is very similar. modern with the war that was then, well , at least the prerequisites that were, the creation of those bolshevik soviet republics, which now we have those separatist unrecognized republics that russia created in the 14th year. then, for example, in the 19th year , the bolshevik army attacks the directory, it says that it does not attack, does not declare war, and the same now, that is, the same now russia attacks, they have svo, they have no war, they have been working according to the same methods for 100 years, absolutely, absolutely, at one time i and a comrade from the ukrainian institute of national remembrance, who is now also in the ranks of the armed forces of ukraine, serhiy ryabenko, we developed. er, they studied these questions, even wrote an article about hybrid wars, which are 100 years old, and there are very similar methods,

well, let’s remember, the year is 1917, we have a central council, and here the bolsheviks announce an ultimatum to the central council, they are going to suppress the rebellion on the don and say that if the central rada does not help them suppress it, then it will be oh-oh-oh, how bad, well, in the central council, i don’t know, you can say in english, they probably thought so, what the fuck , so what? what, what, what do you have for us? and the second question , if the central council does not stop disarming the soldiers of the russian imperial army who have gone over to the side of the reds, then again there will be problems in the central council. okay, we mentioned this a little before the story, the bolsheviks set out to suppress the uprising on the danube, well , somehow they went to the don in such a way that they entered kharkiv, and in kharkiv they proclaimed, banally speaking, the people's republic of china, and the kharkiv people's republic, conditionally, that is, they put their own there. puppet government, why was all this done, here is an interesting episode,

so that at this moment in brest-litovsk the first peace talks in the great war began, and the bolsheviks were the initiator, that is , there was a quarter union, the bulgarian kingdom, the ottoman empire, the kaiser's germany, the austro-hungarian empire, etc the bolsheviks wanted to negotiate something for themselves, and here we should pay tribute to our diplomacy at that time, because ukrainian diplomats mobilized very quickly. are conducting negotiations about ukraine without ukraine, which we can now sometimes notice in international politics there , by and large, the fourth universal because of this actually was accepted, actually, actually, and then the diplomats left, and here we have to give credit to the germans, because the germans said, well listen, there is an autonomous state, and well, at that time, the third station wagon, and through the territory of the ukrainian people's republic the front passes, we don't see it. no objections, well, the bolsheviks declare that they are in favor of the self-determination of peoples, well

, what is the question, so the representatives of the ukrainian people's republic should be here, and the bolsheviks then just captured kharkiv to show that, no, the central council of the ukrainian people's republic they are illegitimate, here in kharkov we have the people's republic of china, they played with all this, well, it's over, well, so as not to occupy the air, it's over, thank god for ukraine successfully, because it ended with the signing of the breslytov peace treaty on february 8, when time was already running out. .. not even counted hours, minutes, and seconds, because the bolsheviks almost occupied kyiv, that is, ukrainian troops were there only in sviatoshyn, but at that moment they managed to sign a peace treaty on recognizing ukraine as independent, on providing military aid, and what am i talking about, trotsky, sitting in breslytovsk, the german generals made remarks to him, and poked his nose directly at him: are you talking about the self-determination of peoples? your troops are now fighting against the central rada, this is actually when they were cool, and to which trotsky said, yes

they are not there, he said almost verbatim what putin will say in the 14th year, so that they are not there, well, that is, they even repeat phrases one after the other, that is, absolutely this hybrid war that has started in our country in the 14th year, they actually didn’t come up with anything new, and they didn’t come up with anything new during this entire period until the 22nd, and they especially now... won’t come up with anything new, as the deputy director of the sbu archive, while working, i have a lot of these documents perelopatitiv and i am with them now, well , now during the full scale i am less with them i work, moreover, i worked with them, and we see repetition, repetition, repetition, that is, they take the communist patterns that you and i just talked about in some, in some of their spy games, in matters of disinformation, in matters... . the creation of a fifth column on the territory of ukraine, they use old kgb methods, that is, the efsbeshniks

do not invent anything new there, they take old kgb things, maybe hang a little christmas tree decorations on them to make it look a little fresher and start implementing on the same situation, when the large-scale invasion began, i remember when people wrote in the comments why, if russia did not declare war on us, we do not declare war on them, here the 19th year is very reminiscent, when the bolsheviks on we were being attacked. the directory says: you attack us, the bolsheviks say, we are not there, then the directory says: since you attacked us, we declare war on you, and the bolsheviks are like that, then you attacked us, you declared war, that's actually as well as not to look like those aggressors. very often now in in our information space , the modern russian-ukrainian war is compared with the finnish war, with the winter war of 39-40 years, actually compared because of the fact that little finland was able to fight back, and this example, for me personally, is an example of how moscow's self-confidence played with it a bad joke, because the finnish war, well, many people say that hitler

attacked the soviet union, precisely because he saw that the soviet union was weak in finland, how true is the analogy... dorechchina, well, this analogy, in my opinion , she is interesting, because really, you know, very often there are pictures circulating on the internet, there is a world map showing how small ukraine is, how big the russian federation is, and that this small, proud and freedom-loving country can withstand more than 10 years of war and already such active full-scale phase 2.5 years, and that's a pretty good comparison, well , really, i agree with him, the only thing for me, you know, is looking ahead, probably the end of the war, yes, the end of the war, well, that is, on the one hand, now we and you and i are two historians, now we are reading the history of the winter war, and maybe somewhere it is perceived like this, well, okay,

like, we lost part of the territory, but the guys defended, that is, they gave the soviets a hard time, and they also gave pain in a good way. they gave, but - they lost part of the territory, finland, let's be honest, finland after the second world war, it retained a rather serious soviet influence and fear, in fact until the 22nd year both fear and influence, until they joined nato , this is true, that is, because i have colleagues from finland who are historians, we correspond, chat, and until this moment, until the finns joined nato, they still felt this anger. and now it is somehow easier for them, and here is this moment, which now, i think, you also notice it, is already quite seriously hovering in the infospace about the fact that somewhere possibly at the end of the year, at the beginning of the second, in 2025, they will try to reconcile us , so that we don't end up with a finnish scenario, even though the finnish scenario might still be

half-baked, it will be somewhere in the middle, and simply, if the orcs take a break for two or three years and then. they will hit with new force, but here i am not even here i want to be an analyst and deal with forecasts, although it seems to me that the forecasts are not too positive and promising for us. the sources of war are people, the sources of war are weapons, the sources of war are money, and the sources of war are ideology and propaganda. probably, such a textbook example of a traditional war with an extremely powerful ideology and an extremely powerful propaganda is the second world war, and putin very much ... why is he copying hitler, and accordingly, if hitler had nazism, then putin wants to create his ideology - racism, to what extent are there similarities in this direction, how important is the ideological component in this war from the side, in particular of the russians, are they in principle and ideology, and with regard to propaganda, where, after all, there is more propaganda, because it seems to me that the modern russian-ukrainian

war it can be called a war of propaganda too, and this is a very good question, m... i will start from the end, well, that is, if you compare, i think you have seen a lot of such comparative materials on the internet when comparing nazi propaganda and soviet propaganda, that is they are very similar to each other, well, that is, there are some to cry simply one to one only inscriptions there in russian, that is, there in german, there in russian and, it seems to me that russia does not have an ideology as such and in principle. the ideology of nazism, it is different, well, because the ideology of nazism, it had a racial basis, the russians, in principle, do not have such a racial basis, well, that is, by fighting with ukraine, they want to destroy ukrainians as such, but let's say, on on their side, it was also interesting for me to analyze this from my own experience, because we were with the boys in donbas, on

in northern donbass, the buryats fought against us, no, that is, there. there were also russians, obviously, but there the buryats formed the basis somewhere, then we were from the kharkiv counter, we were below, below kupyansk, the ossetians fought against us. when we were on the sweeps in the southern kharkiv region, we talked with the local population, there were artillerymen and tankmen who were standing and firing at us right in krasnopil in donetsk region, they were tungus. now there are chechens standing in front of us in sumy oblast, what is all this for, that is, that is all enslaved peoples, a typical imperial army, and here i am interested in analyzing what, say, back in 2000. 2009 is considered the official year, the official year of the end of the second chechen war, the war of the freedom-loving people, really, and

look how the paradigm has changed in 5 years, that is in 2014 or 2015, chechens already appear in the east of ukraine, and in fact, for 5 years, and this love-loving people, which was exterminated, some went abroad, emigrated, some later created subdivisions in ukraine, actually. from representatives of chechens who fought against those like them they call infidels, i.e. traitors, and, and this is very interesting, this is an imperial war, and enslaved peoples who, in principle, could use this chance for their liberation, but they are already so assimilated, they are so uninterested in all this that it is better for them or the same conditional buryat or tungus or tuvan to take $1,500 from putin's hands. he is there in his aul or yurt or wherever he will be the king to go kill ukrainians, than to think about the fact that, listen, what a russian you are, well, uncle, what a russian you are, after all,

well, you're a buryat, you're from tovin, well, you're not russian, but they're just playing with it, and, that is, they're there, they, they're all russian people, and in this way this, in this way they are encouraged to participate, and a few more words about their propaganda , they are actually about... not even about their propaganda, but about ideology, it is very weak in them, well, in fact, my colleague and good friend french researcher hallia aker in her book putin's holy war against ukraine, she very much recommends this book, actually, so that if someone hasn't already understands why putin attacked us, it is very clearly explained there, and she brings out several points, that is what was in soviet propaganda, what they were proud of, they had a great peasant revolution, well... that is, they handled it like a beaten egg , because this was probably the only thing that was important to them, with which they could spit out imperial propaganda, that is

, tsarist propaganda, and then the myth of the second world war appeared in them, so putin is already dealing with it like a beaten egg, that is, he is constantly filling up the number of these victims to show that there they are already almost on par with the chinese, they already have as many as 32... 32 million was mentioned last time, it seems to me that they continue to prepare again and again, but that is not even the point, i.e. he keeps declaring that the soviet union defeated hitler, and constantly forgetting the allies, if i'm not mistaken, somewhere in my opinion trump blurted out such nonsense, he was recently, i have to check, but he seems to be some such nonsense, and what is he talking about putin, that the great soviet union said that the union defeated hitler, well, that's it forgetting including alliances, and well, like america. which had both a landing in normandy and in africa helped with all other things, so this was the second myth that putin was dealing with and that was dealt with in soviet times, well

, the third myth is that of the great soviet union, and this superpower, well, again , putin's words that it was the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century, that sovok collapsed, thank god it collapsed, and akerman brings out a very interesting one. moment, that is, here too they have a lot of eclecticism in their ideology and propaganda, an interesting point about the fact that they begin to consider themselves, that is, the sacred defenders of orthodoxy, this is a point that, that is, in addition to the fact that they protect russian-speakers, was missed several times during the full-scale war that they will protect orthodoxy' i am, because the fascists, the ukrainians, well, the fascists are obviously in the pews, they are trying to close it there, they have already taken it there... the kyiv-pechersk lavra, they will now try to close the uoc mp, which is similar in general, they will defend orthodoxy , well, they are almost declaring jihad, so and so

these are all moments, i really like one such example, to show the eclecticism of their propaganda and their ideology, using the example of one film, you have probably seen myroslava, they once had a film about admiral kalchak like this. unfortunately, unfortunately, this film was the highest-grossing in ukraine at the time, the highest-grossing in ukraine, and i also went to the cinema to see it, that is, i went to see it, i was interested, but it is eclectic, why? firstly, that the character of kolchak is not revealed as such in reality, that is, he, a lot of ideological things are hung on him, which he was uncharacteristic, well, that is, let's remember for our listeners, viewers, at least one interesting moment, that kalchak's wife went to rallies organized by... the central council in the same sevastopol went and it was really interesting that the ukrainian people's republic and it is obvious in the russian film this will not be shown here

and here is another moment, that is, well... something with all their soviet past, erecting monuments to stalin, not yet burying lenin with the mausoleum, they shoot a film of the admiral, a combination of white and red in one, white and red in one, and at the end with such and such russian tudors only in a bad sense, so absolutely a very cool comparison, and at the end the evil bolsheviks, well , obviously, the nasty bolsheviks kill kolchak, sad, bad, nasty, everyone cried , but i... can understand this eclecticism in their heads, that is , they have stalin here, they cry for the soviet union, for the soviet union, they cry for their plumbers, for repressions, because they are already starting to cry for repressions, that is, they cry for the great terror of 37-38, because stalin was an effective manager for them, everything was okay, well , they killed our grandparents a little there, but he was an effective manager, and here they still have a kolchak , that is, it's some kind of sur, it's

some kind of sumbu. and this is such an eclecticism that i cannot call it an ideology, but they even used one of these elements against us, that is, they are a country, i will say in their language, a country that is the winner of fascism, whatever they call it, they always weave it in there poor italians, but not nazism, and those who defeated nazism, now they are going with a new campaign against the nazis who live in ukraine, right? where we have a president, a jew, well, well, it’s okay, everything is okay, what’s wrong with this, where we have a president, a jew, where we have one of the lowest-lowest levels of anti-semitism in europe, where is your interlocutor, one of his he considers the holocaust to be a key topic and cooperates with the university of jerusalem, writes materials for them, and is currently finalizing a book for them, well, they came to liberate us from nazism, you see, well, i never thought so at

the end they spoke for orthodoxy. never i did not think that i would quote in my program, lord, forgive, patriarch kirill of moscow, he once said the following phrase that russia has never attacked anyone, never attacked transnistria, never attacked chechnya, never georgia did not attack syria and never attacked ukraine either. these wars that russia waged during its independence and the modern war, how different they are and how similar they are, so literally. in a few words, if in a few words, then there is a similarity, well apparently, we simply cannot apply it here to syria, because in syria, russia had to support its ally there, and show itself as if it is also an international player and takes part in the resolution of international conflicts, and if we take for example chechnya, georgia and ukraine, these are all imperial wars, that is, these are all wars, russia cannot,

cannot get rid of... the fact that it was once the soviet union, they were a great country, because they, they consider themselves, actually the soviet union, and now someone is coming out of their sphere of influence, that is, these are all imperial wars, obviously, of course, with all due respect to the long-suffering peoples, both chechen and georgian, the war in ukraine is several hundred levels above, that is, it is truly the biggest conflict that we have in the world after of the second world war. and there are similar moments, there are different moments, but the main similar moment is russia trying to keep its imperial influence and spread it further. hopefully, this will be an extreme war, not an extreme, the last war for russia, where it tries these things implement things. history is forced to repeat itself because no one is listening. peter lawrence. the task of ukrainians is to finally learn the lessons of the past and not step on

the same rake. my name is historian and sergeant of the armed forces of ukraine, head of academic programs of the liberation movement research center. friends, congratulations, you and i, as usual in this studio, will talk about how culture helps fight for us, fight against disinformation, and how russia uses culture, as, in particular, disinformation, and on an incredible scale, we let's talk about what is again russian propaganda.