won't go, and that's why he can, it's such a pyrrhic victory, you see, you can go somewhere a couple of times, but in any case, most of the world remains untouched for him, well, let's continue our conversation on the air, in a few minutes we have a short break and we will be back, don't switch, an unusual look at the news, good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresin, sharp presentation of facts and competence. special view on the events in ukraine, so it is not necessary to say that the fish rots from the head, no, not from the head, but for her borders, then who is china, my heart aches, all this is in the informational marathon with mykola in september, saturday 17:10, sunday 18:15 at espresso. direct ater, we are coming back, andriy. smoli, vitaly

portnikov, and we continue our conversation. another important event took place this week, the so-called reformatting of the government. in fact, we saw that a number of ministers wrote statements of their own volition, after which these statements were submitted to the verkhovna rada of ukraine for consideration, well, on the one hand , the president, on the other hand... the majority, actually considered the appointment of new ministers, this was the reshuffle, although some of the government officials who worked before this change were shuffled to the office of the president of ukraine, in particular, we saw that iryna vereshchuk was appointed deputy head of the office of the president of ukraine, on your screens now. we can actually see these

reshuffles, who became who, someone got a promotion, someone from the deputies got the position of minister, well, we have what we have, but here a question arises for many people, for many experts, for many journalists, that this shuffling, this reshuffling in the government, it really had such a formal character, because it did not happen almost once after the resignation of the report of these people, so we saw these reshuffles between various authorities, why the president, why the government now shuffling, it doesn't have any deck at all and what does it all mean, why not now, doesn't have any meaning at all, now not now, we have to consciously. quite simply, if we

want to be a european country at all, ministers are, as a rule, normal politicians countries, these are political figures who come from certain political forces and carry out the political program of these parties in their positions, these are not managers, managers in power, which is formed by a political force, in principle does not exist and cannot be, according to the definition, or whether it is russia or belarus, managers rule there, and the management of ukraine is very similar to this. to be serious, because here we are now , or we were talking there, the most prominent person there in the international plan in the government was dmytro kuleba, and we discussed what he was like minister dmytro kuleba, what kind of minister andriy sebygo will be, but i apologize, dmytro kuleba and andriy sebygo, they are professional diplomats, a diplomat should not head the ministry of foreign affairs, that is not normal in education, anywhere, but annalena berbuk spoke warmly about dmytro koleba , she is a diplomat, she is a leader.

the green party, i apologize, the candidate for the position of chancellor, the greens simply did not win the elections, antony blinke spoke warmly of dmytro kolyba, he is a professional diplomat, he is a politician and an expert, or there, i do not i know, the minister of foreign affairs of italy, taijani, he is a diplomat, he is the leader of the berlusconi party, sikorsky, he is a diplomat, he was once the minister of defense, he is a political figure, he... was one of the leaders of the law and justice party, and then the party civil platform, when the views of the leaders of law and justice began to contradict his political views, and we are constantly discussing some reshuffles in some council of ministers of the ukrainian ssr, these are managers, they can be better, they can be worse, but in a european country, managers do not manage the ministries, because these people and they should be in positions for the most part.

of state secretaries of ministries to choose such a career, and to move in this career, move in this line, and ministers should be politicians, in conditions where ukrainian society. in principle, he does not understand what politics is, and when the head of state has never been involved in politics, he says: several managers manage together with me, this cannot be, sullivan is not a manager, he is a political expert, he is a figure in the biden administration , why it is important to we understood, because when the country is run by managers, there is no political discussion, here is volodymyr zelenskyi, he has been single-handedly running the country since 2000. in the 19th year, in fact, he is the only person who makes all decisions on the entire vertical of power, in fact anyone the other does not make any decisions, does not make any decisions of the prime minister, who did not even come to see the changes in his own government, actually about that and why do you come to him if he is a manager?

none of the representatives of the office of the president of ukraine makes the decision, because they are managers, managers will not approve what they provide, so there is one person who until 2019 was engaged in anything. only not by politics, and this person in the conditions when it comes to whether this state will exist tomorrow on the political map of the world, or has disappeared, as if it never existed and will become part of russia, one person makes all decisions in accordance with some to reports and views offered by people who are not interested in a political career, that's the most important thing: not interested in a political career, because the minister should be for it. in a successful political career, in how to find a dialogue with people, not with zelenskyi, but with citizens who will later vote for him, because he is a politician, and nalena burbach does not think about how to please olaf scholz, she thinks about how to please people , who will

vote for the green party in the coming years, that is, to be effective in the position of minister of foreign affairs, in the eyes of the people, and not in the eyes of scholz, the minister. of germany, lindner thinks about how to be effective in the eyes of the free democrat voters, not in the eyes of scholz, if it turns out that they are trying to solve something together with the chancellor, they are immediately punished, as it happened in the last regional elections in germany, and everyone says that this is their punishment for forgetting that they are politicians, so the last name of the ukrainian ministers does not matter has, the effectiveness of decisions matters. decisions, whether decisions made in the absence of political life can be effective, no, because then it turns into a letter, today you can make some decision, tomorrow you make some fatal decision, which leads to the collapse of your own state and the defeat of your army, can it be so,

of course it can, because there are no competing opinions in any democratic state, again, if we do not want to build a russian belarus here, and if we do, then it is not clear , why are we at war with russia, we can. to join her and calmly build together with her what we like. so, if we don't want to build russia and belarus here, then we need a political life. why did i keep insisting on the need to create government of national unity? because i knew for sure that the ministers of this government, especially if they are statesmen, and we understand that in our national democratic parties , unlike this party, which was molded, it is not known why it won the elections in 2019, precisely politicians there are, or they are experts who are supported by statist political forces, thanks to whom ukraine has existed for three decades, and did not disappear a long time ago, as was planned in moscow. you understand, if we didn't have national-democratic ones political forces, there would have been neither independence in

the 90s, nor ukraine's survival in the kuchmiv period, there would have been no national democrats, the kuchmiv oligarchs would have joined this unfortunate ukraine to the russian federation a long time ago. even before putin, neither the maidan of 2004, nor the maidan of 2013, 2014, none of this happened, there would have been a long time ago, well, if not russia in the full sense of the word, then belarus, and a russian governor would have been sitting here a long time ago, and a long time ago no one would have said a single word on television in ukrainian, and the flag would have been red and blue a long time ago, and not the one that you and i are now defending together with the state, it all ended a long time ago, because the majority of the population... would watch it completely calmly, because she voted for pro-russian politicians, that would be the case, and that's why i thought that the government of national unity is a guarantee that once again ukrainian society will not make a suicidal mistake in conditions where the issue of the survival of the state is the main issue for

everyone, because now it is not just about the survival of the state, but about the fact that russia is out without a doubt, the vast majority of ukrainians will be destroyed and expelled, and all those who watch television today. will look for themselves, if they are not in their graves, which i am far from sure about, they will look for their fate in other worlds in the conditions of the greatest migration, i would say, test in the history of europe in the 21st century, all this... can it be all this be? of course maybe, you don't even imagine the scale of this, what could be, why then? we have to hope that the lottery will take us out, it won't take us out, the lottery never, never does exported, because in the lottery you can make a good decision, and you can make a bad decision, if there are conditions of competition, if the person who is in the government, the minister of defense, the minister of foreign affairs, the minister of the interior, the minister of finance, they understand that they have political the future, they can say no to the president, it is necessary to do differently, the government can

say no to the president, the president can understand what the recommendations of the government are, agree with them or disagree, because there may be a situation when the right of the president is against the government, that was not the case either , and this is competitive work, what is going on here, what should be the fate of all these people who left the government, some of them can only think that they will start a political... career, but as a rule, this never happens with former ministers in our conditions it happens, in our case, on the contrary, even politicians, after becoming ministers, cease to be politicians, and after that their rating is zero, well, within the margin of error, and if it is a manager, well, he will transfer, someone will transfer to work at some state company or non-state, private will be consulted, someone will possibly be an ambassador there somewhere, because we have for... now even diplomatic work has turned into a real scene, someone else will be someone else, it doesn’t

matter, that is, these people, when they are in the ministerial offices, they think about anything, but not about my political future, and i will repeat once again, thinking about the political future means thinking about people, not thinking about one's political future, it means thinking about one person, about volodymyr zelenskyi, which means that the citizens of ukraine must decide for themselves who should ... think their ministers about them or about zelenskyi, if i were now the minister of any affairs from internal affairs to foreign affairs, why should i think about citizens who will not vote for me, i am not a politician, i was invited to work for the president, if i do something that he will not like it, my work will be blocked, i may be removed from my position, my department will suffer, so of course i have to do everything possible and impossible to please this person, and therefore these people they... they write, they andriy sibiga is speaking clearly

said that working in the office of the president of ukraine is the best time of his life for a person who becomes the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, these are very important and necessary words in order to continue a career in these circumstances, so it is possible soviet words, or when andrii melnyk, former german ambassador. in brazil calls zelensky the best diplomat of the 21st century in a public interview, this is absolutely soviet behavior of officials. i saw this only at the congresses of the communist party, when all the interviews began with the words, what a genius we have , leonid elich brezhniv. but again, i absolutely do not blame sibiza, melnyk, or any other ukrainian officials, because they exist in a system where they depend solely on the approval of one person. they no longer depend on the ukrainian people at all, the ukrainian people have no influence on their further

political career, but they are officials, they need to advance along the line, they need to work in embassies, be ministers, implement some of their ideas about how has to work in a ministry or embassy, ​​without the favorable attitude of one single person, the president of ukraine and those managers who serve this person, as he himself says, it is impossible to do anything in the country... this is such a vertical of power, this is a super-presidential republic since 2019 , which after 2022 got rid of another important regulator, which was still there, which could replace the absence of policy at critical moments, this is public control, because people understand that it is not necessary to respond harshly to certain actions authorities, because it could also end in the collapse of the state and be in the hands of russia, and i apologize for parliamentary control, whatever it is... they also got rid of it, because they at least came and there was an hour

of questions to the government, at least the ministers though sometimes they reported, this is also correct, but it was also a fiction, listen, if, if people voted for ministers whose surnames they learned at the time of voting, you say, they did not report, but in the 19th year they voted for the government , they are people, names that none of the voters who are in favor of they were voted for, didn't know, they voted for ministers whose names they didn't know at the time of voting, huh. why control those you don't know i'm sorry if you marry a person you don't know and after that you never see that person even though she is considered your wife how will you be her? and what report do you want to hear at the time of the divorce to andrei, if there was no connection between you? moreover, i think that some of the people's deputies do not even know the names of those whom they dismissed and whom they appointed, let's be frank, of course it rules like that, but the main thing is that the president knew the surname, in this system it is important that the president knew the surname, because this is the instrument of the rule, but, unfortunately, we have what we have,

and that's the way it is. .. there was a reshuffle in our government, if you can call it a reshuffle, and we have a short break, and we will come back to you in literally two minutes, direct ater, do not switch, two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives, a project for smart people and those who don't care, in the evening for espresso. sabbatical political club yutr, we are coming back, and now we will talk about other topics that concern, in particular, our country, and of course, of course, europe, of course those political processes that

take place in europe and not only in europe, we will talk about that. which consists of the possible entry of this country into the brics, well, and i think we will talk about ramstein, yes, about those conclusions, because somehow we were not able to talk about it in the first part, when we had a security bloc, however , i think we need to get back to it and... also to speak, because it is important for our country and it is important for us to understand what kind of help we will get for ukraine, what political processes took place and are taking place there. let's probably start with romstein then, shall we? well, mr. vitaliy, another meeting was held,

volodymyr zelenskyi arrived there personally, which is also interesting, by the way, because... the rule is that the president does not go there, not always, or rather, not even always, and the president does not go there, this is a representative office much lower, or the minister of defense, or the minister of foreign affairs, or others, or military leaders, but still , president zelenskyi arrived there, he made a statement, he made some harsh words about putin, he actually talked about missiles, about the weapons that putin receives from the worst. regimes of the world to kill children, and here i absolutely agree and i cannot deny it, because it is absolutely true, here is about rammstein, what are the first results we are seeing now, and yet, what do you think we can expect after, will we have a strengthened

help, are we finally getting enough air defense, will our internationals hear partners who very often... still slow down in many issues of aid to our country, but at least after that, and one more very important thing, after ramstein, the president flew to italy, and today, if i'm not mistaken, he is participating in one from the forums, the economic forum, and we know that italy also has its own position regarding, regarding missiles, regarding strikes on the territory of russia, mr. vitali, please, well, i think that the most important thing is why the president took part in this at all. .. the summit that this is the first rapshlen after the course operation, and in his own in his speech at this meeting, zelenskyi emphasized kurdish operations, this is in principle an absolutely correct approach, why? because it was the kurdish operation that changed the political character of the war. we talk a lot about how it changed the very security nature of the war, and we say that

in fact it is russia that occupies 27% of the territory of ukraine, and... took control of several districts in the kurt region, this cannot be measured territorially, gains russia, the gains of ukraine, and you can agree with this, but together with this you need to understand something else ukraine transferred the war to the sovereign territory of the russian federation, which before this kurdish operation could be considered a war that is taking place exclusively on the territory of ukraine, that is, a special military operation of the russians on our territory, and this... is always a war, that is, a russian-ukrainian war, not in words, but in reality, and it was very important to see how our allies perceive it, and it turned out that they perceive it calmly, because, well... a few months ago, if you and i were discussing the possibility of how the invasion of ukrainian troops on the sovereign the territory of ukraine will be accepted by the measure, we discussed, probably he will not like it very much, they will condemn, from

the word of the judge, they will say that this is absolutely unacceptable, that the war should take place exclusively on the territory of ukraine, that it cannot be spread to the territory of russia , to be afraid of escalation from the word suja, but not all of that. happened, on the contrary, all the leading western leaders said that the war could take place on the territory of russia, because this is exactly the territory from which the aggression against ukraine is carried out, well, maybe with the exception of donald trump, who began to scare the third world war, but we know that the former american president has a specific position when it comes to russia, and it seems to me that we too could make sure of this more than once, this is one such moment very important, another point... no less important is that the western countries calmly accepted the fact that western weapons were used during this operation, but they did not start saying that

ukraine has its own weapons to use them in this war. no, no, they said, yes, it's normal, it's their business, when our weapons go into their service, they can do whatever they want with them, and here of course a logical question arises, why with your some combat vehicles can be done anything you want, but you can't with missiles, why you can do whatever you want with your combat vehicles on the territory of russia, not ukraine, but you can't do it with missiles, this is a great question, in my opinion, and it seems to me, that this is exactly the question, and heard everyone who was at ramstein's meeting, let it not be clearly expressed, and the fact that there was a meeting between the president of ukraine and the secretary of defense of the united states, lloyd mostian, is also an important thing. because you know, we 're talking about the short term now, that short term, it's about september 2024

to march 2025, that's what this administration can do at this time, and i think that president biden once dreamed that eventually this term, there may be at least a suspension of wars in ukraine in the near future. east, now hope for it not so much, maybe, although on the other hand, if we put ourselves in putin's shoes, he might have been better off agreeing to stop the war right now, when the supposed biden is the clear course, and he doesn't know what to really expect from anna ot trump, nor khairis, but again, it is not in putin's mind that you and i live happily ever after, and in this regard, it can be some kind of short-term agreement, what else can this administration allow? to force russia into peace, will she allow the use of her long-range weapons? of course, now the americans say no, but i have no doubt that

the situation can change, and most importantly, it can change not publicly. of course, it is necessary to have a consensus among nato allies, because zelensky is in italy, talking to prime minister giorgia meleni. with other italian politicians, it is also important from this point of view that italy is categorically against the use of its weapons for strikes on the territory of russia, and thus there is no unity among the leading nato member countries. well, we are anyway we can clearly say that the situation is what it is, and that in ramstein one could see about the simple thing that the west agreed in principle to the possibility of using its. on the territory of the russian federation, that all subsequent packages of weapons are discussed taking into account this trend, this is a trend, and no one said that the way

the kurdish operation took place, another bryansk or bilhorodsk cannot happen tomorrow, at least the russians should think about it, they should to think that their borders can be breached with the help of modern western technology that they very often there is nothing to contrast and accumulate. forces on the border to prevent such a breakthrough. i believe that this is a very important result of this kurdish operation, which you and i should always remember. this means that the russians will now be forced to keep significant forces on the border with ukraine, which they did not keep. who there was aware of the region? any military personnel? and now a strong army will be needed, which must prepare for the next breakthrough. this is an important thing. so in that respect, i think romstein showed that. showed, and from the point of view. this accentuation in kurshchyna showed that ukraine needed new help to stop the enemy's advance in the pokrovsk direction, but it was no coincidence that just now

reports began to appear that... the advance of the prussians was slowing down and that they might not capture pokrovsk, but they would like to gain cover, we understand that, and not only from a strategic point of view, but also from an economic point of view, because they think that they will destroy all our metallurgy in this way if they capture pokrovsk with its coking coal, so everything very simple if we are talking about zelensky's visit to italy, i.e. ramstein, then italy. er, the economic forum, a meeting, of course, with prime minister georgia meluni, what is ukraine's interest in italy at the moment, and we also see the position of italy, which differs from the position of other states, they talk about , that categorically no, we don't allow our weapons to hit the territory

of russia, as far as i understand, at all. that is , we are not even talking about deep strikes, we are talking about the fact that italy generally prohibits the use of its weapons outside constitutional territory of ukraine. what is the interest of our state there, why is zelenskyi in italy today, and how can we convince italy to change its decision? i think we cannot convince the italians to change their decision, one way or another we have to influence them, influence public opinion. ugh. well, george meleni does support ukraine, but her coalition consists of three parties, two of which are known for their long-standing ties to the kremlin. yes, now they have somewhat, i would say, changed their attitude, but we remember perfectly the story of mazio salvini, giorgi melani's current coalition partner, and silvi berlusconi, who until his death led the party he led, is now led by italian foreign minister alberto taijani,

that... they were constantly in moscow, they met with putin , with other russian politicians, berlusconi did not hide his good relations with putin even after the start of the great russian-ukrainian war, this is such a coalition, i would say that we george melena are still lucky that she plays the main violin in this coalition, because she won the elections with a much more obvious result than her coalition partners, and therefore her position of supporting ukraine is absolutely accepted for them, they cannot do anything. to oppose even this position, in the weight of the party to bring italy into italian politics, but again, this is italy, where everything can change, where the right can be replaced by the left, and there will be a completely different situation, because as you understand, if a democratic the party of italy is ready to support ukraine and not further, then the movement

of five stars or how many stars were there? or seven stars i always think, i think five, yes, because he occupies a position on the left spectrum, very similar to the position of the far-right italians, and from the same league, and if a democratic center-left government is formed, then we will to have a coalition again, in which part of the coalition will be for supporting ukraine, and part will be against it, so we need to talk with italian politicians, if we understand that the war is for a long time, and we will need support for a long time, maybe all this for ten years, then yes or else we should be there and to influence this situation, that's all, but in any case italy, we have to understand, it is an important partner of ukraine, that is , we need to talk with italy and of course, to convince, convince and demonstrate that we are in no way , even despite

the position... there are no italians, so to speak, in opposition to this country, and we understand that allowing the use of italian weapons on the territory of ukraine is already a big deal, yes, no matter what, we need more weapons here too, if take into account that the main military actions are coming here, so this is an absolutely obvious thing, and if we are still talking about italy, then we can also... and i think, then we can talk about france, yes, if we are talking about what is happening , about coalition perepetitions, then in france these coalition perepetitions also take place, and these coalition perepetitions are not in favor of the winners, yes, although the winners in principle, as such are not so and...