colleagues from bbc ukraine, russian drones in the sky of the country, more details. shaheds launched from the territory of the russian federation cross the western border of ukraine, causing concern of the eu country's leadership. but will it develop into action and what exactly can force the countries of the alliance to respond to russia? we are talking about this live on bbc ukraine. i am inna kosynska. on the night of september 8, during another drone attack from the territory of the russian federation on ukraine, russian drones crossed the borders of two nato countries, romania and latvia. romania recorded how a russian drone violated airspace, and this happened

just at the same time when the russian federation attacked ukrainian ports. bucharest raised fighter jets to the sky and called it an escalation. a little earlier, a crashed military drone of the russian federation was also discovered in latvia, which does not even have a common border with ukraine. there they found out that the drone probably flew into the country's airspace from belarus. the russian drone that fell in latvia was of the rocket type and contained explosives, the country's armed forces said. they also said that the drone was targeted. the incident happened on september 7 in haigalavska parish of rezekny region. the drone, as it follows from preliminary assessments, belongs to the shahed type. and they are reminiscent of those drones that russia widely uses in ukraine droniem, kurus they tagad use vátő pláti ukrainā.

we collected physical evidence in the area where the drone fell, destroyed it, and are now investigating it in more detail. hopefully this will give you some insight into the components of this drone. from the beginning of this incident until the downing of the drone, the latvian air force monitored the development of the situation, and in principle, we acted in accordance with the appropriate level of procedures and cooperation with nato partner countries. we informed the nato command, and also closely exchanged information. after the information about the fall of the russian drone, the ministry of foreign affairs of latvia summoned the temporary charge d'affaires of russia dmytro kasatkin for a conversation. after that, the diplomat was met by journalists, but he answered their questions reluctantly, said that the information was being checked, and when the journalist asked whose drone it was, the man replied that he had no idea, and also added, data that this drone was russian for the russian side is not confirmed.

it is intentional, but these actions are considered dangerous and irresponsible. russian drones fall on the territory of nato due to the inaction of the member countries of the alliance. this is the opinion expressed by the minister of foreign affairs of lithuania. and the newly appointed head of the ukrainian foreign ministry, andrey sybiga, called the violation of nato member states' airspace a harsh reminder that russia's aggressive actions are already beyond the borders of ukraine and called on allies to act. this is not the first time since the beginning of a full-scale invasion, russian

drones fall on the territory of nato countries. shaheds repeatedly violated the airspace of poland. romania also found fragments of drones on its territory several times. they also flew to moldova. latvia, poland, romania - these countries are also united by the fact that these states are members of nato, and according to the alliance's charter, an attack on any of the member states of the alliance is considered as an attack on all of them. and therefore it implies a collective response. what are the potential risks and actions of the alliance in this case future? such incidents, this is the opinion of the head of military programs of the royal institute for defense studies, matthew savile. during the current conflict, we have already seen a number of violations of nato airspace, whether by russian cruise missiles or other missiles and drones. and some of them even fell on the territory of nato, mainly in romania and poland. the main challenge here is to understand why it happened, what was the intention and, in fact, what is happening? and then the need to determine. if you want such

an answer that does not lead to a redundant one escalation, on the one hand, but at the same time will protect nato airspace. and by this i mean that in some cases it is about, so to speak. minor, albeit significant, violations that occurred when a russian missile's trajectory accidentally touched a corner of nato airspace or territory. or in some cases, the drone or weapon was shot down, or essentially slightly off target in ukraine. and that means that countries along that border have to determine whether they are dealing with a willful violation by something that is actually an accident of war, and how to respond. so the tendency has been to play down... the significance of such violations, and the latest incident, for example, involved jets being taken up in the air, but no action was taken. the problem here is twofold: firstly, this approach does not prevent attacks or strikes, so in this case it could be that these drones advanced to

their target and hit something inside ukraine. the second problem is that it could encourage russia to continue, or carelessly aiming and aiming the weapon. or even dare to check nato's borders and willingness to defend its airspace, in other words, they can pretend to accidentally violate nato's airspace, but in fact, do it on purpose to show that nato countries have no desire to defend their airspace, or seek some more benefit by attacking ukraine from unusual angles. so it's hard to say to what extent we 'll see this in the future, but probably given the russian strikes on southern ukraine, similar violations. will see romania. the same applies to where poland is located if russian planes or ships launch missiles from under russia, but they pass through belarus and near the polish border. in my opinion, the pressure on nato members to step up will increase. if they are not going to participate in more

direct defense of ukrainian airspace, as some suggest, by creating a sort of no-fly zone, then they should at least protect their own airspace, and... so, to intercept, shoot down or otherwise prevent the passage of anything crossing this territory into ukraine. and then we will continue the conversation with our guest. valery rumanenko, an aviation expert and a leading researcher at nau, is in touch with us. mr. valery, congratulations . the fact that russian drones have already repeatedly flown into the airspace of the eu can be considered a course error, or could it have been purposeful intelligence, they say, but what will nato's reaction be? it can be both, but most likely the reaction is still being studied nato countries. but there is an interesting trend here. for the first time, more or less en masse, russian drones lost their guidance

somewhere on september 2, there were two or three drones there, and in the last, last days , they lost eight units at once, well, let's say, the ukrainian air defense forces lost them. inspection zone, i.e. they broke somewhere, lost their orientation somewhere and fell somewhere else, in the forest somewhere in the field, it seems that the russians, after all, the ukrainian air defense found such ways to influence the navigation systems of drones, so now the allies, in my opinion the view must be demanded from russia to...stop striking in the immediate vicinity of nato's borders, or, as the previous speaker said, to more actively start repelling attacks already on its own territory, on the territory of nato countries. that is , such destruction, for example, in

a 30-kilometer zone near the borders will already be considered self-defense by nato countries, from such similar russian strikes, because even remembering. world war, there even in switzerland it came from the luftwaffe, there were separate units, well, that is, even more so now, when all weapons are remotely controlled, that is exposed to electronic warfare means, that is, it is possible, for example, that the drone has a program, but the electronic warfare means can block communication with the satellite, and the drone can then go anywhere . well, poland, romania, moldova, well , you see, one of the drones flew over, a shock missile carrying 50 kg of explosives on board, flew through belarus and fell in the republic of latvia, and if it fell somewhere on a populated place, to make 50 kg

of explosives on board, the situation is clear, and i understand what nato countries expect just such a case, when there will be victims. instead of acting on prejudice and starting to exclude such and such opportunities for the russians to attack nato countries, well, let's say, er... well, act on prejudice, that is , build defenses in such a way in advance to simply make such flights impossible, that is, once again you said about the impact on the navigation systems of drones, please clarify the technical details if the drones fly into the territory of ukraine and cross the borders with the eu, that is, it is a problem of insufficient coverage of the ukrainian air defense, or the impossibility of detecting russian drones by the ukrainian military, or is this some kind of special. the impact on this system, navigation systems of drones, look,

ukrainian air defense is being improved all the time, all the time we will receive from the allies and develop more and more advanced electronic warfare systems ourselves, how does the drone work, it has an inertial navigation system that simply plots the course, there it is as programmed, where to make a turn. where to fly in a straight line, at what angle to make a turn, she is this one an inertial system on a gyroscope, it does not, say, react to the wind that blows it off the route, that is, a drone that works only on the navigation system cannot hit more or less accurately, for this they put a new and different gps system, well, not only gps , there are four or five systems on these drones. including the european one, by the way, hello, yes, yes , yes, yes, unfortunately, unfortunately, mr. valery,

we have to say goodbye already, thank you, we had an aviation expert and relevant researcher of the state aviation museum valery romanenko, thank you again time. so britain will transfer missiles for air defense to ukraine, it was announced at the last meeting by raimshtein, and light, multi-purpose lmm missiles, they are small, the launch mass is only 13 kg, the warhead is 3 kg, the firing range is 8 km. they have recently been in service with the british armed forces since 2021, that is, they are completely new missiles, and ukraine will receive 650 units, with a total cost of 162 million pounds. what kind of missiles are these and how they will help ukrainian air defense, this is the opinion of st. andrews university lecturer mark devre. lmm missiles, which britain transfers to ukraine, are enough advanced they are in service with the british army only since 2020. the first year and their capabilities are still being improved, these missiles work especially well for air defense

at short distances, so in the context of this war they will be quite useful for protecting ukrainian ground forces from planning bombs, in particular guided air bombs, and attack helicopters. currently , ukrainian air defense is facing many challenges, on the front line, ukrainian troops are attacking with planning aerial bombs, this winged bombs with... a satellite guidance system and a range of approximately 60-80 km. attack helicopters are also a danger. all this together causes heavy casualties on the military front, and attack helicopters alone played a leading role in the disruption of the 2023 offensive. on the other hand, ukraine is being attacked with long -range missiles and drones. they are directed to ukrainian cities and energy infrastructure facilities and to them. to protect the required missiles with a much longer range, such as the patriot or the french smpt. lmm missiles

able to solve part of the tasks, or at least with their help it can be attempted, but other systems are also needed. the united states has promised to deliver five new patriot batteries, but when this will be done is unknown. namely, they are capable of repelling long-range missile attacks that destroy energy facilities and destroy ukrainian cities. if we talk about drones, russia has a large number of drones in service. at first they were imported from iran, now they are produced in tatarstan. the problem isn't that drones are hard to intercept, it's that the cost of the missiles is much higher than the cost of the drones themselves. very often drones are used to wear out the air defense system, which in turn makes the targets more vulnerable to russian attacks, so we really need cheaper and more missiles to destroy the shaheds, otherwise we will have to

spend millions to hit drones, which cost from 400 to 1000 dollars per unit, this data is taken from russian documentation. and that's all for today, take care. vitaliy portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv, andriy smoliy and invited fact-based experts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. greetings, this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already come to the snake itself. the following shots may shock you. news from the scene. live

kamikaze drone attacks. political analytics, objectively and meaningfully. there is no political season, exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front. freedom life - frankly and impartially. you draw your own conclusions. we are coming back. and a new week with its second hour from 9:15 p.m. to almost 10 p.m. we will talk, discuss, discuss the most painful, most important, the most, well, one might say, even unpleasant topics for society, for the country, maybe for someone from

the authorities, well, but it is necessary it is necessary to speak... of course to discuss, it is necessary to search for the truth. we will remind you that today we are conducting a survey, and our question is as follows: do you sometimes listen to at least russian music, and asking you, we ask you to be honest and vote, if this happens sometimes, then 0800-211-381, and if not, you don’t listen, and this is categorically, 0800. 11382. all your calls are free and, importantly, anonymous, that is, you can be honest with us, we thank you for this honesty is extremely appreciated. the interim results showed us that 15% of those who called us are still eavesdropping on something somewhere, i don't know whether they are being tortured, but yes, they are eavesdropping on russian

music. we ask you why exactly, because we are the last. sometimes it looms quite unpleasant for both andrii and me, and very much so we hope for the ukrainian state as a whole and those who are engaged in state policy in this area, the picture that this picture paints for us, andrii, well, in fact, if we are talking specifically about this, then such a summary chart, such a summary statistic, was made public, in particular it '. was released by a project called besonya music, and according to this data that we now, oh, you see on your screens, there was a protest, there were facts, statistics were collected from six different music platforms, and these are paid

music platforms that you sign up for , you pay funds either for subscription or for buying this music, or relatively speaking, for downloading this or that music track, and we see that the average value in these charts, and this is our spotify, this is our apple music, this is youtube music and this is shazam, that is , it is actually the most important such legal, i emphasize once again, legal platforms, the average value. 26% of russian music, i.e. russians, ukrainian music 39 and music of other countries, i.e. the united states of america, the european union, and other countries of the world is 34%. and here we apologize, but 26%

of russian music in the 11th year of the war and in the third year of a full-scale war. well , to be honest, it somehow doesn’t make sense to me, it doesn’t make sense to me , i’ll say it again, these are the auditions that give money to the state budget of the russian federation, listen, well, if you have such a weakness, then do it's at least somehow, well, i'm against piracy, we understand, intellectual property, it's important, but it's for the civilized world, the russian federation ... it doesn't apply, well, that is, don't pay though b for that, don't deliberately pay for something that sucks in your head, i think that's probably where it should start, right? we started with statistics, but in general we see that people in ukraine are ready to pay into the state budget of russia, in fact, the taxes of these people who

are officially rotated, who are officially posted on these platforms and on other platforms, in fact there are many more of them, just specifically for these statistics are made, money is paid to the state budget of russia, what happens next? rockets fly further, shaheds fly , lakes fly further. russian military, are occupying ukrainian territories, and you know, and you know, when i look at these statistics, i begin to remember at least the events of the last week, and what are the events of the last week, these are dozens of people killed, almost 60 people in poltava, this is about a dozen people killed in lviv , these are daily shelling of kharkiv and sumy, these are daily victims. in donetsk region, kherson region, and mykolaiv region, these are daily bloody shellings of our country, and it is these bloody shellings of our country that are funded, if we listen to

russian music on legal platforms, that we buy russian music, and in general, i apologize if we are sponsoring russian peace in any form, in which it was not, but less so, i have another question: why we, as the ukrainian state, why ukrainian lawmakers, why ukrainian state authorities are still allowing this to happen on the territory of ukraine. i emphasize again, i just emphasize again that these are legal platforms, most of which are officially registered. google, for example, is officially registered in ukraine, doesn't it pay taxes, for example, and... apple in ukraine, that is, all these platforms, they are on the app store, they are on the google play market, we download them, accordingly, they are officially located

in ukraine. can't we, as a state , regulate, at least in general, these platforms. if we are talking, by the way, about the regulation of telegram, if we are talking about regulation, unfortunately we are not talking about it yet, i understand that. we are talking, but for some reason this specific issue is not even at the level of discussion, next to the general need to regulate social networks in ukraine, but also not only social networks, but also legal music platforms that offer russian music to ukrainians every day. in my opinion, it would have been necessary in ukraine a long time ago, including in the context of regulation of social networks. draft a bill or changes to the current legislation that made it impossible , at least legally, at least in public access, actually to provide access to russian

music in ukraine, but, as they say, unfortunately, this is the inaction of the state, and this is turning a blind eye to obvious problems, to obvious the problems of promoting russian... it is being shown, and unfortunately, more and more ukrainian youth, ukrainian citizens, even in public space, despite the fact that russian music is prohibited in ukraine according to the law on culture, they continue to promote this russian content. in particular, today there was information that in the city of sarny, in the rivne region,

ugu, khrystyna asks for a short remark, because mabu, sarny rivne region is the small homeland of our lena chechenina, our cultural reviewer, one of the most professional in general in this country, and i don't believe that it's possible there, but it's certainly, well , for the sake of, i don't know, a little bit of humor, but we understand that it's not at all funny, not funny at all, when it comes to about such... i assume that this is some kind of youthful courage or something else, a lack of understanding of moral and ethical red lines, i don’t even know

how to explain it, although somewhere i even try internally, but how to fight with it and what to do with it, it should be a balanced approach, it should really be a state strategy, a state policy, and in addition it should be a state regulation, here here here if here here combination, here should be absolute, absolute combination, absolute mix. all kinds of means that are implemented in order to overcome this russian peace in ukraine in general, not only by bans, but we are talking about bans, no, no, i’m sorry, there must be a full-fledged information policy of the state, but when, when, when we spoke, well, in our country , i’m sorry, we haven’t even had a minister of culture for 13 months or so, so this is about information policy, but the worst thing is that both the relevant ministries and

specialized departments they don't even talk about such an approach, a comprehensive approach, for example, let's talk about the fact that in ukraine there should be a campaign to inform the population, why listening to russian music is bad, why it is actually financing the russian terrorist machine, why it is war financing, why in general in the context of promoting anything russian, this is bad for a country that is bleeding daily from russian strikes. and russian occupations, i don't see anyone except some, some volunteer projects, some initiatives on levels of individual journalists, individual experts, individual activists who raise this issue. i do not see that this was a national policy that was carried out, i apologize, from kharkiv to uzhgorod, from chernihiv to odesa, a policy that should be carried out in social networks, on

television, on... radio, on some external media, bring in bloggers here, bring in influencers, so called, right? you can do that, don't collect them, i'm sorry, only for some political meetings, as it was, remember, do you remember two years ago, and to collect them specifically on targeted issues that are important for our country, well, of course there should be responsibility, responsibility for business entities, for... institutions that promote russian music, and by the way, we also have a lot of such, in our almost every month there are scandals when the official entities of the economy, these are some restaurants, shopping centers, i don't know, hotels, where in fact they are caught for playing russian music, the question is, what is the responsibility for this is how russian music is officially banned in ukraine, but what can the fine actually be? 70 hryvnias yes,

why not yet, full-fledged administrative responsibility has not been introduced, by the way, the draft law is about how the verkhovna rada and the state actually work in our country in the context of this protection of information security, the draft law, which calls which has number 9547, registered, here i opened 01, 08,23 now. that is, the draft law that was registered more than 13 months ago, on august 1 of last year. this is a draft law on amendments to article 155 of the code of ukraine on administrative violations liability in trade establishments, public catering, in the service sector, etc., regarding the restriction of public use of the musical product of the aggressor state. this bill has been in the verkhovna

rada for over a year. by the way, it was registered by people's deputies from almost all factions, and this draft law has been in the verkhovna rada for so long and has not been brought to the meeting hall, it is simply not brought because, well, why, because firstly, everyone does not care, and secondly, because maybe someone is afraid of some, well, including future ones, there will be electoral consequences, i apologize, but today we have a question of whether ukraine will be or not... will be, will be ukrainian or will not be, whether russia will win the information war, whether russia will lose the information war, and it does not matter who what are the electoral positions there or who has which, what are the views, relatively speaking, here the question is whether we are ukraine, or whether russia will effectively continue to conduct its hybrid war both in ukraine and abroad, that is, here...