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and confidently step into the new week. the new week project with khrystyna yatskiv and andrii smoly, mondays at 20:00 at espresso. there is a war going on, and not only for territories, it is also a war for minds. we are engaged in propaganda. russia is throwing millions of petrodollars into that turn ukrainians into little russians. ukraine will become russia, we counter russian information attacks in the chronicles of information war project with olga lake. tuesday-thursday at 17:15, repeat tuesday-friday at 22:00. watch at 9 p.m. news, summaries of the week. the usa has finally allowed british and french missiles to be launched against military facilities deep in russia. tons of dead. in the seim and

desna rivers, another environmental disaster committed by the russians. consequences of the attack on lviv on september 4, where people live, whose homes were destroyed or damaged. about all this and much more already at 21 at espresso. free politics club, live, we 're back, and now we're going to talk about the debate that took place this week, both between trump and harris, and this debate, as you can see, turned things upside down from the debate that took place two months ago between trump and biden, yes, if then, de facto trump with... again, according to the audience

vote won, now the result is completely reversed to what we had before, and what happened in this debate in general, of course , that both candidates they talked mainly about the internal policy of the united states of america, but they also talked about ukraine, of course they also talked about other... i will tell you about the us economy, about migrants, and, relatively speaking, about other social issues. mr. vitaly, how do you evaluate this debate, compared to what we discussed with you 2-2 months ago. well, first of all, i have to say that, of course, the tactics that donald trump chose then in the debate with donald, joseph biden, it backfired on him. because the main meaning of what then

donald trump said both during the debate and after the debate, which played a role, it was, let's say, biden's physical inability, and trump insisted on this, and even those liberal publications talked about it, that biden withdrew from the election, that he was for with his age and no, he cannot lead america for the next four. years, and now we see that kamela harris is much more energetic than donald trump, that's also an important part of this debate, but she can look at him as a not-so-young person who is not one of the obscure reasons to head the united states, this is one point, another point is important that ukraine became the topic of this debate, in the previous debates, as you remember, it was not like that, it was not some such topic, i... i think that for

this time, things happened primarily related to value adjustments, because once again at the trump-biden debate, everyone was looking at biden's condition. not even on the substance of what biden was saying. biden, in terms of content, had a pretty good debate, but everyone could see that he was not in the right physical condition. therefore, there were questions as to how far this could be continued in the future. and ukraine, which is not part of this election campaign at all, is important. she suddenly became such a litmus test, the very attitude to values, because kamela harris, she was not specific about ukraine, right? but she talked about helping ukraine precisely from the point of view of traditional americans. their values, close to both democrats and republicans. by the way, she appealed to the polish population of pennsylvania, they said: think about it, if putin wins in ukraine, then he will not give poland a normal life afterwards. trump did not talk about all this at all, and he, by the way, continues to stubbornly insist on his

position that he will force putin and zelensky to end the war. he said it again yesterday in his statement that he was well acquainted with them, that he would instruct them to... meet and end the war, on what terms, he also never explained, but this point of view, let's just end this war, without taking into account who is the aggressor, who is the victim, who is guilty, who is innocent, there is none of this, in kamela harris it is absolutely clear in putting that period over and, donald trump does not have that, he just has a desire to end the war, which, which spends money from the american budget, period. that is, this is such a pragmatism of values, and it is important that, in principle, if you characterize the position of donald trump in this debate, it is a pragmatism of values, but at the same time he was confused, at the same time he allowed himself to be funny, because here is this meme with cats and

dogs, unexpectedly went viral on the internet so that everyone is talking not about debates, but only about it, and it's bad for trump because he looks like a grandpa who watches... tv and then repeats whatever stupid thing he sees on there, that's not a very good characteristic, and imagine what it's like if you young man, you are looking at trump, at the cat, you just want to look at some alien, some grandfather, something so stubborn, how did you learn about this from tv, not from tiktok, from tv, i was watching tv, well, i think that trump was not in... the best shape, that's why at these debates he was charismatic, it was visible, he energetic was visible, but in this, this is the energy of a person who is 78 years old, well, this is a positive characteristic of him, because at such an age, a person who is so

eccentric, so energetic, this is good, but but for what function, but well, we 're just seeing, really, you're right that those debates... the previous ones, which were before the official election campaign, they showed a tired biden, and an energetic trump, and an energetic trump, and now it's just trump is back, the same situation , and what's more interesting, that's when i watched debate, in fact, trump all the time had the impression that he was talking to biden, that is , the impression that he is not facing kamala harris, but the impression that he is standing in front of him further. biden, that he entered, that he closed his eyes, he does not see that it is harris, and that biden is in front of him, and this was probably one of his mistakes, although he really tried to keep himself in his hands, he must have , his technologists over there tied his hands

and feet so that he wouldn't rush out there like how it was back then, and how he does it during his campaign tours, but less so... that is, he fell into the same, the same trap, the same trouble that he was preparing, essentially for biden, right? i agree, i absolutely agree with that, of course it is, and he understands perfectly well, the fact that he no longer wants to see harry is a strong indicator that he realizes that he doesn't drag out such debates, and why he went to them at the time, he... moor and by the way, before these debates took place, there were actually a lot of reports that his headquarters, his party, members of his party, his technologists, that they are very worried about this debate, and that

they, as they say, are trying to restrain him as much as possible so that he does not, does not aggress, does not rush. insults and so on, that is, in fact , his entourage knew in advance, and you and i knew in advance that it would be like this, that it would not be otherwise, he had the option in general from... there was no second debate, he can refuse, and if he pulled out of the debate with kamela harris altogether, that meant he already thinks he's lost it, ugh, he went to the biden debate because he knew who will win them, to the debate with camela harris, he is not going because he knows he will lose, he could n't afford that because it was an obvious indicator of weakness, now he can say, listen, she said everything she wanted, i said , that he wanted me to talk with her there, this is a position that can be accepted, but simply... refusing to debate, it was impossible, and by the way, one must understand that this is a self-confident person,

such people, especially those , who have been presidents, they are sure that they will come out and everything will work out for them, you cannot say to trump: listen, you will lose the debate to kamela khairis, who am i, no way, i will come out and everyone will see, well, i have to tell you, andrei, that by and large some big tragedy did not happen, we did not see a person at the debate, about whom. .. we can say, oh, that's it, this person can't win the presidential election, maybe he can win the presidential election after this debate, actually that's my next question, because remember the clinton and trump debates, and trump, in 2016, actually, i remember this, exactly the same debates, i remember them, and there in fact also the audience after this debate, and the experts, believed that trump lost them, i don't remember the percentage points there, but they were

almost identical to what we have there something 60 to 40 was in favor of clinton, that is, do we now we can really consider that these debates did not particularly affect anything, that even despite the gap that i allegedly, and by the way, by the way, after this debate , this general... national sociological measurement in the 16th year he was clearly talking about clinton's lead by six percentage points more than trump also showed the results of the national vote, which he lost, but he still, relatively speaking, won the election because he dealt with those states, and that's an important lesson, by the way, as you remember, then in general, everyone believed that... trump is just a spoiler for hillary clinton, that he is participating in the elections just

so that hillary clinton will become a comfortable president of the united states, without any serious efforts. and only clinton alone, as an experienced politician said, trump can win the election, understand, no relax, he's going to win the election if you relax, everybody relaxed, including what seems to have been during the campaign in... in these crucial states, and now i hope that kamela harris' team, she will take that lesson, not the election, not the debate, i'm sorry, will decide this election cycle, but the election in these states alone, if you lose those states, you lose the presidency of the united states, even if you have the majority of the electoral votes, well then they'll talk again, that's the majority of americans , they are for... camelo harris, so what, but whatever

system, so you have to win in the system, not in the number of votes. trump has never in his life won an election by the number of votes in the united states of america, which did not prevent him from winning the election in 2016 and being very close to winning in 2020. so what is there to say. for now , the candidates' chances remain as 50-50, of course, 50-50, i would even say, well, maybe 51-49 from our point of view, but if you and i were supporters of donald trump, we would tell you that 51-to 49 in favor of trump, which way to look at this process, if we return to the very content of this debate, trump twice avoided answering the question. presenters about whether he wants ukraine to win, well, he says

that he wants the end of the war, the end of the war, why does he not talk about ukraine from the point of view of victory, but only from the point of view of the end of the war, because he believes that in he has good relations with putin, he does not want to spoil them, he does not need the victory of ukraine, he needs putin and zelenskyi agreed on peace and that both were satisfied, if someone wins, then someone loses, he has a position, i... i say once again, if you look at this plan of vance, it is not separate from the chinese one, this is the chinese position, we do not have to make vladimir putin feel that he has lost or been humiliated, because he is our friend, even if... the war ends, it must end on terms that will not give putin the opportunity to feel offended in any way. the end of the war should be a triumph for putin, so let it be zelenskyi's triumph, but not russia's defeat in any way, that's why you won't hear the issue of ukraine's victory from trump, it destroys the very structure from which he hopes

to end this war, it's unrealistic, but he thinks like that, but here. another interesting piece of information related to the post-debate, kamala haris' headquarters actually launched commercials, de facto in support of ukraine. to be honest, for all this time i do not remember that there was such a direct, so to speak, campaign. and, in particular, as much as they say analysts, this ad, it is designed to attract voters who are immigrants. the first from ukraine, the second from eastern europe in general, as far as i understand, the first, the first from poland, because this is pennsylvania, there is a large polish community there, i’m leading to this, poland, the czech republic, well, of course, that is , our part, our belt here this one, but at the same time we understand that there are quite powerful positions among

eastern europeans who live or are from eastern europe in the usa. there is a strong position, trump has a strong position among them, as, in particular, among the part of our fellow citizens who live in the usa, in your opinion, but still ours by nationality, maybe not for citizenship, but maybe someone also for citizenship, ukrainians, poles, czechs, slovaks, well, relatively speaking, here is our eastern european bloc, they... will there be a response to such things, to such statements, and will they continue to vote for trump and say similar things to him? they, they will separate, by the way, we will talk about this in detail tomorrow in the political club program with the president of the world congress of ukrainians

pavlo grod, it seems to me exactly at 9 o'clock. that is, in fact, in a day there will be this big conversation, i will also talk to him about it, so we will hear what he will answer to precisely this question about the role of residents from the countries of central europe and ukraine, because there is a coalition of eastern, central european, eastern european, their diaspora in the united states, in canada, and it is influential, but think about it, you will take it. a voter from pennsylvania, but he has trump, who is against the rebels, but also against immigrants. and there is karis, who is pro-abortion, but for migrants and for helping ukraine and against putin, he is a catholic, and he hears what the pope

tells him, he chooses the lesser evil, and here it is actually the same for the ukrainian issue, which is not... the lesser evil. haris, who does not specify support for ukraine, but trump is also ready to support it, as he says that he will come to an agreement with putin. so you, please, put yourself in the place of this voter of polish origin. how will you vote? well, maybe trump is not against all migrants, but for some reason i am, maybe, maybe it's subjective point of view, but for some reason i have the opinion that he is not against migrants there from poland, maybe from germany, from... and you may feel somehow related to various migrants , for some reason i have the opinion that he is so, i don't know what he is, if you're from poland, you can't just be a person who has different views on migration than trump because you're a migrant yourself, of course, but again, you're all you weigh it, trump is against migrant workers against people like me,

but on the other hand i sympathize with these people, and maybe i do not sympathize, trump wants to negotiate with putin, it is dangerous for... but on the other hand he is against abortionists, and i, as a zealous catholic , am also against abortionists, or maybe i am a young person, and for me abortions are not so important, but there are the important thing is that trump wants to negotiate with putin, that is, it depends on many circumstances, but it is a difficult choice, that is why we say that these are not determined voters, it is a difficult choice for both a native of ukraine and a native of poland, why so it is important that, say, ukrainian... organizations of america worked with ukrainian organizations in poland to strengthen their cooperation. i called for this even before the beginning of the big one. war, i, moreover, i met with the heads of ukrainian organizations, polish organizations of america, and ukrainian organizations of america when i was in chicago,

telling them exactly about this, that you will understand that we have some difficult issues between ukraine and poland there , in historical politics, in those things, in those things, but if putin destabilizes ukraine, poland may also feel it. myself very much unstable, and that i liked that all the heads of polish organizations in america, they did not even need additional clarification of this problem, i was with them, i believed that i would be with them, i was then co-chairman of the ukrainian-polish cooperation forum, and i thought it would be much more difficult for me to talk to them than to polish politicians, it was much easier for me to talk to them, so it turns out that these people, they are of course... ethnic poles, but they are americans in terms of values, and here i i look, i think about these people, who are they going to vote for in this situation in, well, chicago is generally a traditional democratic state, but they have this

organization, one of their organizations in pennsylvania, for whom they can speak for their fellow pennsylvanians, well , i think rather kamala, because if that's how they see the world, it's better than kamala, and with that i understand that among... there may also be people who have some kind of conservative political views who will say, you see, the pope told us to choose the lesser evil, maybe trump is it the least evil, well, there are problems, and again, there was no such problem with biden, because he was a catholic, the second catholic in the position of the president of the united states, you see, biden did not have to appeal to the poles in pennsylvania, the poles. pennsylvania thought, listen, for the second time in the history of the united states , a catholic who meets the pope, just as a catholic, will be the president of the united states,

and kamelik garis has to find an approach to them, that's the difference, that's why i said, you know, biden can win election because in such states as pennsylvania, where everything is decided by a few tens of votes, how the catholic community will vote, mostly by... it can be like that, remember there, 800,000 polish voters, relatively speaking, how much of a gap was there in pennsylvania there were 40 or 50 votes, something like that, maybe 50 thousand, i don't remember, something there was very small, but here the question is actually, the question of which group of voters will come to the elections and which will not come , which is more mobilized, and which is not mobilized, that's why even we sometimes. may was, june, even then we even said that in fact even then it was 50 to 50, and in fact even then no one could say

that everything would be one hundred percent trump or one hundred or one hundred percent biden, well, but we have what we actually have to the current schedule, when the current vice president of the united states of america, kamela harris, is running for office. one phenomenon, this is taylor swift, by the way, yes, we have talked about this many times, that she is , will there be a moment when she supports, in this, in this election campaign, swift, she there is a hair dryer in general, she, even if we put aside the election campaign, she is basically a phenomenon in american society, because americans perceive her as a self-made woman, that is, a person who made herself, who has influence, as in fact , a person who has a huge audience, that is, if

you look at the number of her followers, the number of listens on various platforms, it is millions and tens of millions of people, and she has an impact on a young audience, however, now there is always a question of how much she is able to mobilize this young so that she not only said: oh, how beautifully she said there, subscribe, lady cat, to what extent is she able to make these people agree that they should go to the polls? this is the number one question for me. i don't have an answer to this question, but she supported kamela harris, and in your opinion, will it affect the election anyway, if she really convinces young people and that vote will be affected, if not, it won't be, well.. there will be another representative of such a creative elite, who supports kamelo gyris, more creative elite america, supports kamelo garis, you are absolutely

right that the world supports taylor. for what it's worth, donald trump already said that she supported him, remember? yes, he said that she supported him, he even did some photoshops, i think, well , he generally likes to do all these photoshops, so to speak, which are on the border with fakes, kalash said, such collages, and there are a lot of things , which do not correspond to reality, well, maybe it is important to simply tell trump that for him taylor the world is better than the real taylor the world support kamelo garis, that's what i'm talking about. think, but i think it's an important moment anyway, it's a moment that's been waiting for, remember, everyone said that taylor's support would be such a hidden weapon for democracy, i think what's more unexpected is the fact that camelo harris supported dziccheini, the former vice president of the united states, the vice president of the time of george w. bush, a man who has always been the personification of conservative republican values,

a man who even made movies about him. the left directors, as the personification of conservative republican values, who was so demonized by these people, i am like andriy yermak, you can draw such a parallel, i think, because in reality digcheny never had a tenth of the power attributed to him by journalists, but a real leader the united states was always george bush, jr. which, all principled decisions, everyone said, oh, oh, oh, he has such an influence, he has such an influence on this bush, oh, if it were not for cheney, well, that is, he is such a demon of american democracy, and when a person from such a camp supports kamela garis, it is as if andriy yarmak came out now and supported petro poroshenko, you know, we all vote for

poroshenko. and why, why did dikcheini take such a step? because i think trump doesn't fit his value system, well , first of all, his daughter, as you know, she's just politically destroyed by trump, but he 's never had a perfect relationship with his own daughter, and secondly, i think that he is seen, it is also evident from these debates that trump is not guided by the values ​​that trump driven solely by self-interest, that trump does not at all correspond to this ... vision of the republican party, which is in the head of udi kechen. well, basically, you have to agree, even at this convention where donald trump was nominated by the presidents of the united states, there was no former president of the united states, no vice presidents, and no mike pennsanidy kechen. this is also an interesting point, because trump has largely changed the political values ​​of the republican party, which is what i think about when we talk about

debates, i watch these debates. as for the debate the person with values ​​is kamala harris and as the person with no values ​​is donald trump everything we talk about him charisma economic achievements energy not energy it's all about something another thing, when we talk about garis, we say that she adheres to one or another values, somewhere she balances, somewhere she tries to please someone from the traditional electorate of democracy, to get some and get others, but... these are views, here already it's completely different, it's ego, i would certainly vote for kamela harris in this election, if i were an american, the way i would normally vote in 2016 in the 20th year for biden, in 2016 for clinton, but i don't i think that in the previous elections it would have been different and even the same, i would have voted for mckinney and romney, that's the trick, i would have voted for reagan. and not

for carter, i'm sorry, for reagan and not for who was the candidate alter, well yes, carter of course, for reagan and not for carter, i would vote for ford and not for carter, despite the whole story with ottergate, ford has always dominated me more than carter, i would then vote for mccain, not for obama, for george. was even older, well , that is, it turns out, i look like this, that i am all the time, all the time, maybe there with the exception of white clinton, you have to think about it, i would vote exclusively for republicans, and the ears of the younger, i will forget the younger, yes of course, ugh, ugh.