800 people, there are only 17 people left to work in the mines in sverdlovsk, and this is the occupied part of the luhansk region, in 2022, in order for the mine to work somehow, women began to be sent there, because there were no longer enough men, that is, everyone there who could in 2022, those who did not manage to escape before that, they were all mobilized, so even they cannot recover there at the moment. because they have a shortage of male population, because they mobilized everyone and threw them on meat assaults in 2022, so on mr. pavle, then i am right understood, because some experts say that they are no longer there, you are very careful to talk about it, i will have to be less careful to say what they say, that when they say that there are some people from donbas, from donetsk, from luhansk, from the donetsk region , luhansk, then an expert. i say, they are gone, they are all dead, because in

22-23 they were all mobilized by meat assaults, and they are lying in the ukrainian land, in the donbas land, there are no more of them left, do i understand this fact correctly, you understand correctly, you understand correctly, i may not have expressed myself incorrectly, but i meant that 90% of the miners and workers were mobilized, and well, i did not give an example, well, if miners from kuzbass come... it is an indicator that there are no local ones, accordingly, there are contracts with companies from kusbas, they conclude these companies, impexdon, and a trading house, and they set up shakhtarivska zbasa there, because there are no locals, respectively, that is why it is really there, if we take the year 2014, then approximately 20% of the total population of the temporarily occupied territories of luhansk donetsk region, if we count women and children, remained, and there is a minimum of a man. well men

there is a minimum, so it is true, i confirm that there are already those people, well, there are none. another question that, i think, will be of interest to many, if you know, what is the fate of mr. renat akhmetov and his businesses, is there anything left, because if you look, there are no mines, no factories, no football stadium, and then what is there , well, we know that he lives in london. well, at least he has a big apartment there, hidepark number one, number one, even i knew the address once, but now something, something is left with him, is he at all interested, or any businessman today's donbas might be interesting, so i would ask a question, as of today , i know that mr. akhmetov was nationalized, well , stolen, how the occupiers established control over his industry, even if i'm not...

i'm wrong, end of 2016, beginning of 2017 year, that is, they took it all from him, now there are several mines working there, there is still medinvest, this is krasnodon coal, there are three or four mines still somehow breathing, but they are finishing them, there are still several mines, the mine named after frunze and the mine named after vakhrushev , gravelly anthracite, it was a child was taken into concession, and there are still several mines. in the country, the krasny partizan mine, this is sverdlovsk, and there is the komsomolets mine of donbass, this is all that remained there, it was all, let's say, profitable, and the det prepared a very huge amount of reserves there in the 15th year, respectively prepared it, invested money in order to get it, and accordingly the occupiers have been eating it up all this time, there is little left in stock. stocks

and they are already finishing them up there and will cut them into metal, but in general i want to tell you this, for today the occupiers they export 10 times more metal, grain, and coal from the occupied territories than they bring anything, we can see this by the number of wagons that cross the occupied territories, including them, and they have now begun to export through the port of mariupol, we have such data in ... accordingly, we see it and can state that they are simply robbing everything, mercilessly cutting into metal, and there is nothing left of the industry there. thank you very much, mr. pavlo lysyanskyi, director of the institute of strategic studies and security, founder of the neighboring rights group, was with we are in touch, thank you mr. pavlo, thank you very much, in the end i will say that i and the good news in the last words spoken by mr. pavlo in this program, there is good news, if they are all... driving, then they they already

understand that they will not be there for long, you will not take them out, if you are there for a long time, then they understand that they will not be there for long. that means they are taking them out, if they were calm, confident and said, this power is forever, they would not take them out, which means that they are still going to run away from there, and in my opinion this is good news. now to europe, to europe to see mr. mykhailo yakubovich, an orientalist, who, well, through him, i am being told that not directly to mr. to an orientalist, a candidate of historical sciences, a researcher at the oriental studies department of the university of freiburg in germany, who will tell us about the near east. this is how we learn what is happening in the middle east, although at

the end i will ask what is happening in the federal republic, because there are interesting processes. well, if there is time, well, watch it. what, what is he doing, what does erdoğan want, we have not talked about it not so long ago and not so often, on the contrary quite often, but he wants to join the brics, he wants ukraine to return crimea, he remains in nato, he bashes israel , what this policy can lead to. good evening, in fact , many people in the world are used to this style of erdogan, and it would not be erdogan if he did not do this. turkey was going to bric in 2018, was almost ready to submit an application and did not. why? because then the entry of turkey

in brics was a certain subject of bargaining between turkey itself and the west, in particular the american administration of the time. because there was talk of the release of one pastor, an american, trump tried to introduce sanctions against turkey and imposed them, there was such a story, well, here it became known from external sources that in october at the brics summit in kazan, turkey will supposedly be accepted, until things, azerbaijan also asked, since azerbaijan is trying to coordinate, is trying to coordinate its policy with erdogan, then obviously this time it is real, in principle, brics is not for turkey... these are no special geopolitical challenges, except for closer economic integration, of course, it wants to get access to russian resources even wider and cheaper, that is, conditionally to be attached to the poor people that putin

can still share and who agree with xi jinping, and this does not contradict his position in nato, on the one hand, and that is why this is such a simultaneous message. that crimea is ukraine, but i went to brics. in turkey itself , a certain misunderstanding is growing and it is possible that the question even the fact that brik is placed by the opposition as a symbol of turkey's rejection of european integration, final, although it is clear that there is a great fate and fault of the european union, which kept turkey at a distance there for a certain period. so, it is possible that in the next elections and in general in political discussions, brics as such... and an alternative to european integration, it will become a certain topic, although the majority of turkish society does not know much about that brics and it looks, you know, so-so the union of those offended by the west, or the union of dictators who they are leading the policy of insults to the west, so here, well

, in principle, it corresponds somewhere to the canvas in which turkey has been moving all these years, well, but in general it is clear that this is how it looks geopolitically. not very good for the countries of the west, because turkey no longer puts itself in a pro-western position, which it was, for example, in soviet times, when it was viewed as a state hostile to the soviet union, here it is even briefed somewhere from neutrality to such a closer integration with russia , china and so on. let's see, actually, what obligations they will take on themselves, if will enter there, which contracts, which agreements are new. although, well, even erdoğan's visit to kazan for this summit is not so pleasant, i want to believe that erdoğan will visit ukraine before that, i think it is quite possible, given his previous steps in this direction. mr. mykhailo, i would,

you know, sow sad things in my head, and i would tell you this, and i like it very much, because when brics has russia. weakening, which we all aspire to, we all dream of, and there are such strong players now, and very strong ones, whose interests cannot always be coincide with the russian ones. and there are also players in the form of this very turkish country, then it is very difficult to coordinate all these players, and there, obviously, russia is not in the first place, and any actions of russia will have to be coordinated with the turks, who will say, we do not like it very much , with the chinese they can also say that we don't like it very much, with the indians, with the brazilians, these are strong players whose economy is stronger than the economy. federation much, and therefore i would say that well done erdoğan, who is undermining the possibilities

russia and on other continents, not only in europe, what do you say, it could be looked at from this side and the addition of new players, it turns this brics into an even more amorous structure, or such, you know, china , a group of chinese proxies, yes, because the chinese act very cunningly because of this brics, the fact is that these savings. including turkey, brazil, and south africa, these countries have resources on which the countries of the west depend in many respects, in addition, here they can act as certain monopolists, with, in addition, these are parallel various imports, exports, circumvention of sanctions, and turkey is in these schemes, then the countries of central asia, the same azerbaijan, some others, well, let's talk. that this is such and such a part of the world economy, where it is profitable for russia in many ways, so

various movements are possible here, but simply at the moment this brics does not oblige anyone in principle to anything, but since most of their summits take place in russia, they there they are trying to invent some kind of alternative olympiad, such as the brics games, in which their own athlete participates in in some ways, that is, it still looks decent, another... the question is that erdogan does not start to trade more and more with this, they say that you do not give this and that, i will go to brics even more strongly, that is, this is his known policy, at the moment this union is being formed and i want to believe that, in principle, the countries of the west and those adequate forces, which in the same country are turkey and other countries associated with the brics, will actually not allow it to transform into some, you know, new block of dictators, although taking into account even those ... which are there, contradictions between the dictators themselves, this brik is unlikely to become something

an alternative to nato, here one must distinguish between their real integration efforts and their statements, for example, with them, if you take even different countries of theirs, you cannot go to one of them without a visa to the other, there are also a lot of different restrictions, it cannot be compared with the european union there, not even with the organizations of the persian gulf. countries are a cooperation organization, so, well, it all really looks decent to some, but their such export-import of dual -use goods, agreements on resources, they already look more threatening in prospects, but mr. mykhailo, erdogan is immortal as a president, as a person, okay, let him live for a thousand years, but he is not eternal, his... opponents, i.e. the next government, to what extent, to what extent

are the citizens of turkey themselves more interested in their europe, than brics, than china, india, brazil, that is, in the next elections we understand that electoral democracy still exists there, and still the votes are counted more or less correctly, who can become not a surname, but who, who. .. political power can become the head of turkey? it seems to me that currently of those who is there, even when they emerged as an alternative to erdogan, kilic daglu, well , the alternative was so-so, but despite all the disadvantages in the cities, he gained a lot, he practically even many predicted victory for him, what a small advantage there was, and the power that will come to turkey in the future, it will probably focus on domestic economic. the situation, and besides, actually represent the cities more than

the villages, because erdogan still has a certain majority, although he was the mayor of istanbul at the time, but he lost support there. there is that true, there is such a paradox in turkey, for example, the turks can advocate certain democratic transformations into themselves in the state, have, as you rightly put it, working electoral democracy, but at the same time have a lot of... geopolitical views that, conditionally speaking, anti-western, that is, they can agree with what erdogan is doing there regarding israel, certain statements regarding ukraine, even closely cooperating. with china, with russia, despite all their crimes against the turkic population, for example, the same uighurs, and at the same time, that is, they have it all in the head fits, and if the collective event, which we often talk about, will show its weakness, well, accordingly, it will be such that, as they say, you need to stick to your own, play with

different players, and not really strive for some one strength. to the european union, they say that we are not accepted and so on, that is, this is quite possible such rhetoric, and given the trend, even the american elections, how many issues outside the united states are accepted, excuse me, how crazy already, including in turkey as an excuse for comics , well we we will see more and more powerful skepticism, mr. mykhailo, the last question, or a group of questions, somehow it seems that the situation in... israel and around israel somehow, well, i would say, slowed down, we, we don't see anything, we see yes, the gaza sector, we see something going on there, some operations are not very active anymore, we see hezbollah bombing in the north, we see some threats from iran, but we also saw this months, two and three and a year ago, that is, nothing

is happening, what is it, that is, it has already ended. this aggravation is associated with 7 last october, do you think it will continue there, as they sometimes write in novels, about what i was talking about a month or two ago, against the background of blinken's promises there, in particular about the fact that a peace treaty is about to be signed, nothing ended there, the war did not go from a hot phase to a cold one, but to a warm one, just a few days ago there was an attack on israel by yemen. with a hypersonic missile, by the way, which fell 6 km from the bengurion airport, and the israelis, according to their own statement, could not shoot it down, and what is it there was impressed and was impressed by this question, but imagine, the operation against yemen is ongoing, which has already been carried out by the americans, british and others, here yemen has a 2.5 almost thousand km hypersonic missile, that is

, ukraine is not given permission to use any less powerful weapons there, here. .. calmly from yemen, through saudi arabia, everything flies, falls in the center of israel, and the israelis are understandably worried about this, and the yemenis promise what will happen next. there is also a report by an israeli analytical center that hezbollah takes into account the experience of the ukrainian war in the use of drones, and in particular these technologies are developing faster than in israel itself, because artisanal production, and not some kind of coordination, tender and so on. the sides are simply under a lot of tension, exchanging blows and preparing for the next war, which will probably start depending on the results of the american elections, because the biden administration has done, unfortunately, very little to contain both hezbollah and the houthis and iran. we can ask the question, why

should she do this at all, but israelis are like that questions are asked because they have certain allies. obligations, and actually less and less the americans guarantee some kind of security even for their allies in the middle east, this is a threatening trend, and unfortunately, in the coming years, it will show itself again, perhaps even with more powerful weapons in the hands of various terrorist and proxy organizations, according to connected with iran and connected with russia, while the west will deal with other issues that are... important for them, but hardly change the military reality. thank you, thank you mr. mykhailo yakubovych, orientalist, candidate of historical sciences, researcher at the oriental studies department of the university of freiburg. thanks a lot. i am left to tell you that we still need funds for drones and a charging

station for reconnaissance of the third regiment of special operations forces. and this regiment destroys the enemy in the area of ​​the temporal ravine. in donetsk region and bbla will help to improve the execution of combat tasks and save the lives of our defenders. your donation will increase the effectiveness of actions against the enemy, the goal is uah 890,000. join in you see the details on your screens, and i say goodbye to you, all is well.

more than 70% of ukrainians consider the spread of russian disinformation and propaganda in social networks a serious problem for the country. these are the data of the latest kmis survey. and this is what i have been saying for several years. ukraine should more systematically oppose russian information attacks, which weaken our state, make society vulnerable, and spread capitulation sentiments. this problem is not new. worldwide because the tentacles of russian agents, special intelligence operations, widespread in europe, in the united states of america, and the democratic world is beginning to adopt cardinal and systematic decisions to

counter russian informational aggression. our state should not be left behind here. you can find out how to do it on my channel, where there are always fresh analytics and specific suggestions for solving problems. sign up. yesterday's harris trump debate kicked off the main electoral stage. company in the usa, its result is extremely important for ukraine. we heard the main thing, the current vice president and candidate from the democrats clearly stated the need for our victory. well , as expected, the former president and republican candidate twice did not want to indicate whether he wants ukraine to win. instead, trump talked about ending the war in 24 hours and the third world war. we've heard it before, it seems. that is, he repeated the kremlin's key horror story, proliferation. this horror story is being carried out by russian agents all over the world. last week, american special services charged two citizens of the russian federation and seized more than 30

of internet domains associated with the us election influence company. well, as if nothing unusual. this is not the first attempt by the russians to interfere in the american elections. we remember how moscow organized cyber attacks on hilary clinton's headquarters in 2016, they forged documents, which they did not do. but behind this message is. the exposure of a whole network, which was supposed not only to change the outcome of the elections in the usa, but also to influence the attitude of americans and europeans regarding the war in ukraine in the current company, the washington post writes about this with reference to its sources in the cia. moscow uses authentic american voices on major social media platforms to whitewash propaganda and conflicting narratives designed to sway american audiences. while justifying the charges against two citizens of the russian federation, behr submitted to the court a voluminous dossier of 277 pages and in it described in detail the methods of russian psychological warfare. the avber report says that the coordinator

of russian propaganda in the west is a kind of social design agency. it acts on the order of the deputy head of the administration president putin serhii kirienko. their target is not only the usa, but also france and germany. in particular, the russian documents that the ffr attached to the case state that germany is vulnerable. to propaganda than france. first, we need to discredit the usa, great britain and nato, and secondly, we need to convince the germans to oppose the ineffective policy of sanctions, they write. as a tool to destabilize the situation in france and germany, the agency of social design defines the spread of false narratives, fake videos, documents and recordings phone conversations, comments on social networks, fake and real quotes from influencers. now let's think about what. none of the above is available in the ukrainian segment of social networks, and in particular in telegram. we have absolutely everything. and is there at least one reason why russia, which spends crazy money to promote its

narratives in the west, should not do so in ukraine. it is the stability of ukrainian society that primarily depends on whether they will continue to support us. at the moment, despite the emotional swings that the russians have strengthened and pso, we show steadfastness. ukrainians are not ready to capitulate, but in order for our social... immunity to be more protected, we need to bring order to the russian telegram platform, as is provided for in the bill i submitted, which applies to all similar platforms in general, it must be adopted immediately, as was done with the law prohibiting the activities of the russian church in ukraine. in addition, according to the latest investigations, among the investors of this platform is yanukovych's purse serhii kurchenko, who after his suzerain went with him to moscow the russian authorities appointed him back in 2014. curator of gray and black schemes, according to which the occupiers looted donbas. the investigators established that among the companies that bought coal and metal from kurchenko on the markets of the european union were dutch

companies. durov, approximately the same amount of $10 million was invested by other structures, such as kurchenko, and other companies close to the kremlin of roman abramovich, ex-minister mykhailo abyzov, and oligarch seyid gutseriev. therefore, telegram as a platform, as a method, as a messenger for exchange information, is absolutely dangerous for ukraine, as it occupies a dominant role in the market. a monopoly on the information market of ukraine cannot be given to a foreign citizen, even one of russian origin. we are dealing with the mythical trojan horse that was brought into the city and then

an enemy army came out of it in the middle of the night. similarly, the russians brought us a telegram, and president rado accepted it as a gift, which should save his rating. only this is an illusion. at some point , the russians will be able to make it so that they are thrown in they had much more information than zelenskyi's entourage could pay for. they will attack him personally and no budgets will be enough to defeat them. because it is the russians, not the president's office, who own the telegram channel. well, yes, of course, i heard such information, well, but where should we get it? information, if we do not have it at all, telegram is an effective source of so-called informational and psychological operations, this is clear, and in principle we saw it every day, and that, so to speak, the telegram network channels that are used in the organization, which was before the beginning of the full-scale invasion, which is now continues to exist, then of course this is a big problem. such strange coordination of the pro-kremlin oligarchs in supporting the unprofitable telegram is absolutely understandable, if it is not about business, but about politics. telegram is a propaganda resource, a tool

of the russian... services of the weapons of war against ukraine. it is very good that ukrainians also understand this, half of whom are already demanding restrictions on the activities and control over this platform. i will continue to talk about the danger of both telegram and other networks, no matter how convenient, they are not in use, because in fact they are really convenient. and it is important for those who are aware of this danger and it is important that there are even more of them. together we can force the authorities to finally act. like this video to see it. how many more people, and on my channel you can watch a documentary about the draft law, which should finally put telegram and other similar networks under the control of the ukrainian state, as well as about my new initiatives we already have some positive developments: the parliamentary committee on culture and information policy has finally considered my draft law. colleagues agreed with my ideas, and by the end of september we will prepare a joint document and submit it for consideration. while the democratic world announces.

to russian propaganda, its main tool is the telegram, ukraine pays a terrible bill every day, and we cannot be aloof. we, military personnel of a separate unit of griga, named after volodymyr griga, a unit of unmanned aerial vehicles complexes of the 76th separately ba'. in the zaporozhye direction, combat clashes take place daily due to the constant assaults of the enemy, this does not escape the holipil direction, which our battalion has been defending for almost two years. right now we need three times as many modifiers and fire damage from the sky. therefore, we are appealing to everyone who cares to collect funds for 20 dji mavic classic drones and 10 3t mavics. yes, the amount is not small, but the life of your siblings and relatives is much

more expensive. we really hope for yours. support donation and distribution, let's not let the occupier take a single step further and accelerate the victory together, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, the politclub program is on the air on expresso tv channel, i'm vitaly portnyk, you've already seen it. our guest of today's program, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019, pavlo klimkin, welcome, mr. pavle, i am pavlo klimkin in the politclub program, greetings to all, friends, i am glad to be with you, sir, welcome, of course, we have there's a lot to talk about, let's start with this plan for vladimir's victory zelensky.