and the only problem is that our communication in communities is with those who want to communicate, and there is always some proactive minority who wants to communicate, and people of any diaspora, and 100%, the only question is that if we talk about even hypothetically our desire to return at least a significant part of people, i am not talking about all of them, or even about more, but a significant part, then we have to talk to everyone, not to those... who are proactive, and by the way, a significant part of proactive - these are those who are there permanently, the same in germany, the same in other countries, and that what i see, just last week i had two interesting conversations, in some countries, the russian special services, well, the fact that they are recruiting people there, it is clear there who will return, some of them will be arrested, they have always recruited, today one of such people became a member of the council... we don't congratulate him, but it just

becomes a group, and not some personal ones , we remind everyone, that's for sure, but, but these are realities, and i'm absolutely sure, and from two countries, my friends already they say that they will deliberately shine someone like that later in a way to draw lines of tension and somehow fragmentation in society. with those who return, and so is a part of our society, yes there, as politicians tend to see those who are abroad as someone else, it does not mean that this is definitely a rejection, but nevertheless, we, and they, we are here and they are there, there is such a line, and if it will be played along and deliberately supported from moscow, and it will be supported, 100% and this is... an accurate strategic and systemic story,

then we need some kind of answer, and it is desirable too system response, it's very, very a difficult story, and in general, now ukrainian-polish relations, what we see, there are surges in polish, in polish media and political reality, when for the first time the opposition there and the government there have united in their issues, and precisely and... and here, you follow polish politics, and very much, well, like me, i know for sure that it’s not about dmytro’s statement, no, in general, what dima said is actually the 15th reality, it belongs to the media , political history, but they found an issue around which they can say the same thing well, these are the presidential elections next year, but it is even more, and i can say on camera that now in poland there is such a... desire

to keep ukraine and us in the field of their fundamental, fundamental interests and lead us by the hand, and there is there is a fear that we and someone else in europe will fundamentally work on issues of european integration, so that in ukrainian-polish relations a lot of creative solutions await us, and we are talking about this, by the way, i will be in frankivsk on thursday-friday slaughter house with the polish ones experts, we will... talk about a lot there, but in terms of what will happen in our relations, well , it hasn't started yet, since they won't block european integration, but someone will definitely want these historical issues, and not , well, they are not historical, they, they are actually political, since history is history, politics - politics to be used, and you and i, as no one knows, since...

we started this story when the dog came to power, so yes, before by this this story was not a part of each other, it is so obvious, it was, but history was not openly and harshly politicized, and since mr. miroslav gave figures on how we increased the polish gdp, i saw figures from polish sociologists that the politicization of our historical issues brings from one percent to one and a half per... on parliamentary elections, imagine 1.5% on the scale of poland, that's a break in music, and again, i 'm not pointing fingers at anyone there and i'm not blaming, but this is such a mythical, mythological, i would say, association the authorities and the opposition around our issues, me, me very, very, very, very much is disturbing, we will now take a break for a few minutes, but please leave... everything with us, and we will continue our

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system. new week on espress. weekly summary information and analytical program, a clear understanding of the key events of the past week, analysis of the causes and consequences of these events from experts, forecasts for the development of the situation for the current week, the opportunity to ask your own questions and join the discussion, spend a summary monday evening with us and confidently step into the new week. the new week project with khrystyna yatskiv and andrii smoly, every monday at 8:00 p.m. on espresso. verkhovna rada regularly. passes new laws, but how do these changes affect our lives? we have analyzed new resolutions to inform you about the latest changes in ukrainian legislation, how legislative norms change our lives, what to prepare for? leading

lawyers of the aktum bar association will answer these and other questions that concern ukrainians. watch every tuesday at 7:55 in the program legal examination on espresso tv channel. we are servicemen of the griga separate unit, named after volodymyr griga, of the platoon of unmanned aviation complexes of the 76th separate battalion of the 102nd separate brigade. in the zaporozhye direction , combat clashes occur daily due to constant enemy assaults. this does not bypass the goleypil direction, which our battalion has been defending for almost two years. currently, we need three times more funds. co-adjustment and inflicting fire damage from the sky, so we appeal to all who care to collect funds for 20 dji mavic classic drones and 10 3t mavic drones. yes, the amount is not small, but the life of your siblings and relatives is much more expensive. we really hope for your support. donate and share.

let's not let the occupier take a single step further and accelerate the victory together. glory to ukraine. glory to the heroes. we continue the politclub program on the spressa tv channel, with you vitaly portnikov and the diplomat of the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019, pavlo klimkin, we discuss the foreign policy priorities of ukraine, we discuss what is happening with the ukrainian diaspora now, how the situation with ukrainian migrants is changing in europe, in general in the west, now let's connect to ours. conversation of rostislav sukenyk, head of the association of ukrainian organizations in germany. congratulations, mr. rostislav. good evening, mr. vitaly, mr. pavle. well, you know, this is such an interesting thing, mr. rostyslav, we discussed these elections in thuringia and saxony in great detail, of course,

it may not happen again in brandenburg, the results may be similar, more or less, but there are many ukrainian migrants exactly stairs not in the west, and anyway, even their presence there, it does not change, let's say, public opinion in favor of ukraine, how is this happening? probably so, well history probably doesn't teach the germans anything, here it's probably a matter of perception, let's say this, surprisingly, at the beginning of the war, the germans completely opened up in the positive sense of the word, and accepted ukrainians, both in the east and in the west, that is , the war, when it started, it was, well, i wouldn't say completely unexpected. but nevertheless, the germans accepted ukrainians very openly.

despite all that, of course there were those who were not inclined to support ukraine, but the majority, we take this into account. today, with the war, we are talking about, probably, this understanding of exhaustion from the ukrainian war, and certain forces use this element. for their political preferences, and in this field, probably, the populists, let's say, the right and the left used it the best, but the interesting point is, to what extent do you think, here are all the new statements of the federal chancellor, his so peaceful plans that russia is needed to invite to the peace summit, well, it's basically a small sensation, but when... the federal chancellor also says that he will not allow the use of german weapons for

strikes in the deep sea, as far as they are related to these political changes, it is a derivative of two things , the first thing you are talking about is domestic politics, which is very complicated, and the second is the frantic whining of german business, and a large part, it is not just sad, it is nostalgic for russian gas at a discount. who saw the last report of mr. mario draghi, the former president of the european central bank, but by the way, the latest statistics on germany, and in germany the situation is the most difficult, because there are very cool such traditional, production, but such high-tech, digitalization is their strong point, and that's what you asked these are absolutely facts in germany, in fact,

a recession has begun and in germany everyone is totally scared of immigrants. for the first time in many years, as far as i can remember, the germans put up checkpoints at all borders. not only poland there, but including the dutch, the swiss, and so on, which never happened at all, but for demonstrating activity for what... what the right-wing populists, the left say, it is actually difficult to understand who is right and who is left, the wagenknech party is there, there are both left-wing populists and right-wing people, now to them add up, and immigration is simply treated there, treated in chats, treated in social networks, so this factor of immigration is on the contrary, significant roasting of german society has a very negative effect, and... what we see, and with our help, well, yes, of course , there, somehow they will try

to get her back there with 50 billion, but when that will be, but for next year it will be less than this year, because if you look directly at the budget, the queen almost fell apart when she discussed the budget, they have a deficit of 27 billion, it has not been like this for a long time, that is, there are really new problems, but there is a way out of these problems they are looking... in order to sweat and somehow lower rates and not raise them. tell me, please, mr. rostislav, but the ukrainians in germany, those who are citizens, are they such an electoral unit that german politicians pay attention to? because we see that when there is an association of jews there organizations in germany make a statement, it may not be numerous, but it immediately provokes a reaction from german politicians, and it always forces them, i would say, especially in the pre-election period. to react quite nervously to any claims against them, but what about ukrainian organizations? before the start

of the large-scale war, ukrainian emigration, or let's say, the number of ukrainians, or even, let's say, immigrants from ukraine, was somewhere around a quarter, well, a quarter of a million, and a great, great influence on... on they did not have the results of the elections, although we were in contact, we expressed our opinions, we made our warning, they took it into account, but there was no great influence, today with... with, let's say, with a big war, with the number of people, who came as protection seekers, probably precisely from the point of view of whether they will influence the elections, it probably does not, but this topic is important, and this topic will be in the elections already next, next

fall, will be very important , among people... who will be elected to the german bundestag already there are ukrainians, that is, those who today will occupy, well, be delegated in these parties and will actually apply for a place in the parliament, well, that’s interesting, so we can generally use this global ukrainianness as a political factor, especially in europe, maybe, well, what we can, we have, but for this we need, as i said, to understand. who lives by what and to reach not that proactive minority, and this minority is not 30%, in fact there are 3-4-5%, but to a significant number of ukrainians, who are largely fragmented, and secondly, i absolutely agree with mr. rostislav, but ukraine has now begun to play

against many german politicians, and the reason is quite simple: when we are talking about 250,000 of our ukrainians with german passports, more than 3 million are russian-speaking, and this is a real electoral force, in some federal states, in some districts, these are actually russian-speaking germans who came from kazakhstan and came from others, that is, in one berlin, when i was ambassador, mr. rostislav me... rules with the new statistics of 250,000, mr. rostislav, then was more than 10 years therefore, i think that now there is more, and the fact that ukrainians have already appeared in the state parliaments, in particular in the berlin lontaza, is of course a very cool story, and it makes us all happy, but it does not mean that we are there, not

in terms of numbers, but in terms of activity, yes, we want to dream, we can break this russian wave. which is actively supported there by crazy money, former stasi employees there and those who are now being bought wholesale and retail, so actually german politics is a very, very big challenge for us, do we have ukrainians have a systemic influence on this policy, i absolutely agree with mr. rostislav , we do not have it yet, and on the contrary, the russian wave, it is beginning to turn... there, if not into a tsunami, then into a real wave, which critically hinders us, well, the logic of today the german government - it is better to reassure everyone by saying that somehow we will manage everything there, that everything is actually fine, we will not raise rates and blame the lack of

discounted russian gas and business support there for what... is happening, and it has already started, we see it both in public and in social networks, it's a story, it 's called sweating, and it will take another year to sweat, this rabbit race, i'm almost sure, i can't say, there may be black swans, but it's sweating, and it means that their maneuver, it's completely narrowed, and by to germany, honestly, i only hope for american leadership, because germany, as a rule, tries to ... go into the forehands of the united states, although scholz now began to say something that he has never said before. he says: well, let others allow long-range shots there, but we don't all the same with german weapons, that is, even here he begins to play, to play his violin. therefore

, what we can do with our communities, with our active, there is proactive. in parts, this is a very cool story, but so far, i completely agree here, we, unfortunately, do not have much electoral influence. tell me, mr. rostyslav, this is the question we also asked mr. miroslav skirka, the head of the ukrainian association in poland, in principle, how do you view the community that was in germany until the 22nd year, and the community that appeared after the 29th year, the 22nd year, are these integrated communities, or are they after all two different parts of people who do not always... even have such a close contact with each other? no, they have contact, but it is definitely necessary to explain what happened before and what happened after. that is, before there were people who, let's say, the ukrainian community, let's call it that, it consisted of the post-war part, that is, those

people who, after the end of the second world war, could not return for obvious reasons, for the reasons that when they returned, they got into siberia, that's why they stayed here, accordingly they had no opportunity in them... there was no opportunity to return. the second part - let's take somewhere those people who were able to leave with the collapse of the soviet union before the collapse of the soviet union. and during the already independent ukraine, they left there in small doses. these were conscious people who left because they could not agree, or saw some other, greater prospect of being abroad, realizing themselves more. the people who... arrived with the start of the war, they came under compulsion, i.e. they did not intend to leave there, probably a small part who dreamed but could not, but

most of them were people who were forced to move here, plus openness played an extremely large effect and this is protection, the so-called paragraph 24 of collective protection, where people received literally everything, from the first day you receive... social assistance, you receive, the state takes care of you, looks for you some housing, you receive other payments and so on and so on, that is, they got into a very comfortable e at that negative situation, quite comfortable conditions in relation to other periods, and even compare with poland or the czech republic , there were much better conditions here and they remain today, at the beginning... of this period, accordingly, these people were looking for help and who helped them, first of all ukrainians, that is, we are from the first day, the war started early, the first searchers

were already in the evening, for example here in hamburg, good evening, we are from ukraine, that is, it was the evening of the 24th, and who first helped the ukrainian greek catholic church, ukrainian communities that already actually organized. the transfer of people practically from the polish border and to places of assignment or to places in large cities in germany, that is, to say that they are separated, no, but the worldview of these two, or let's call these two groups, is completely different, and probably their communication, probably also a little otherwise, that is, we were conscious, because if we were to even touch on the topic of what the diaspora is, then we probably need to spill a little... because the people who came here, we are probably even this one from us, or shall we say yes, calls from the ukrainian government for

self-identification, for self-identification the question of language is included, how do i identify myself, and here, for sure, this is the moment when you come here and speak russian, how the ukrainian community perceives you, that is one thing, you are all from ukraine, we are all the same, but externally for... a german who hears russian on the street, you are russian, that is, you are so, well, to identify that you are from ukraine, it is very so, well, chaotic, let's say so, and in the future, if these people are not will change their attitude, then they will fall into another circle, into another environment, of course, the mass people, that is, more than a million and a half during this time, he changed the landscape completely, that is, these people began to create their own separate ones. cells, these people came from business, who began to integrate business here, that is , literally everything has changed, but - the understanding

comes over time that either you identify yourself as ukrainian and you have to somehow integrate into those ukrainian organizations that are also changing, that are changing, but an extremely long presentation, what mr. pavlo has already touched on, today the russian federation or their special services are acting or... counteracting ukrainian organizations, because ukrainian organizations were the ones who warned european governments about danger, about gas, about other dependencies, about political actions that they did not want to see, or their society did not want to see, but today it is all a little smoothes out a little, and they are precisely the ukrainian emigrants of the new, well, let's say so, at first. war, in these comfortable conditions they do not, well, probably i would say, not quite pay enough attention to defending

ukrainian interests further. not all somehow are ready in a way, well, not all, but a large part, they are in comfortable conditions and are ready, probably to stay here, and, that is, this does not apply to all of them, but to a rather large part, they got into a comfortable situation and already feel comfortable here, learn language, are looking for ways to stay here. thank you, mr. rostyslav, rosyslav sokena, head of the association of ukrainian organizations in germany, this is also an important point, on the one hand, that people, if they are there, say, not from... find themselves in the ukrainian environment, they can don't get into russian, they just get into it, i'm with many mayors, i know them personally and communicate well, on the one hand, there are fantastic ukrainian grandmothers who go to german courses and are ahead of everyone around them, study, integrate, go to some church communities, and on the other hand, there are a lot of people who get into some fake

or... about pro-ukrainian or according to russian organizations, we see this in many german cities, and it is a very big, very cool question, mr. rostislav, this is very unnerving, but we were talking about the russian language, that is, on the one hand, everyone has the right to speak the language they want there, this is their own constitutional right, but the poles from warsaw say that we hear russian more clearly than ukrainian, and this makes us nervous, since we do not like russian here, well, not as a language, but as the language of the aggressor country, and this is actually in germany, well, maybe in other countries, there in italy or spain, it is not is so sensitive, but there is a question of self-identification, a question of the systematic work of the russian special services on...

in our communities, there is definitely a question of recruitment, and there will be many recruits with different purposes there, among those who will return, and this is for us, i believe that the challenge of our national security, we should think about it already now, but the situation is really very and it is very difficult, but in germany, i know it, well, simply because the situation in this country, i know for... it is true that we do not have enough human, intellectual, or financial resources there, but we have some kind of framework for how we work with our communities for ourselves, for ourselves to compose, this is critical the question is, it will get us, if not today, then tomorrow, well, it was the same with other diasporas, but i remember that... but the entire

leadership of this union of russian germans, soviet germans, they all moved to germany and now all these people who were the main activists of the soviet germans, but there are a lot of them who now work directly on the dew in russia, of course, and where it was the most massive organization in general in the soviet union, in the entire history of its existence, i have public, and turned out to be absolutely about gabian, one of my good friends, this former premier the minister of the land of lower saxony says: you see, pavlo, here is my house in hanover, germans who came from kazakhstan live next door, and it is interesting that they have lived there for almost 30 years, but they constantly watch neither german television nor some conventional bbc, but they watch the first russian channel, because the big screen is visible through the window, that is

, they do not change even for 30... years, well , of course, the young generation changes in some way, integrates, but the people who came, 30 years still do not change them, that is, they are like that, and there are millions of such people, they influence the german political reality, they all have passports, they all vote, they vote, i think, in a sufficiently organized manner, either for left-wing populists or for the right, rather for the right, and. .. that they will hit our communities in the sense of their influence, in the sense of their compactness, this is a big question. germany is not easy, poland is not easy in its own way, the austrians there are in their own way, one of my austrian friends once called me there, he says: you know, pavlo, i walk down the street of vienna and look at expensive cars with ukrainian numbers, it feels like

every thursday... yes, that's right, that is.