in december of the 23rd year , 24 megawatts were installed only in june of this year, the minister instructed to install it, and this is an illustrative example, that is , in the future, of course, you can count on the construction of new nuclear power plants, if there are chegyrinsk nuclear units, but if you are really talking about what is needed quickly, qualitatively and as early as yesterday, how much to bid. which has long been needed for solar, wind, hydro, biodiesel, to the extent that these projects can provide the generation that ukrainians need during the heating season in particular? well, now i hope for big ukrainian business, when did they see what is happening with the destruction of 900 mw, when enterprises stop due to shutdown. of electricity, they began

to ensure the energy security of their productions and build gas-piston, gas-turbine, solar power plants themselves, for example, next to me with houses is my epicenter, these roofs are all solar, and solar power plants in the climatic conditions of ukraine, they do not work almost in winter, there are the snow must be cleared separately there and so on. this is, firstly, secondly, me i believe that adopting, for example, the energy strategy of ukraine until the 50th year, in april of the 23rd year, is madness, because we do not know energy, it is calculated on the basis of economic forecasts, we do not know what the structure of the economy is will be, we lost an energy-intensive metallurgical enterprise, there are some. we lost the population, large

consumers, we lost the population of 7 million, that's why such a big strategy should be adopted after the victory, in my opinion, and now we have tactical, tactical goals, these autumn the winter period, and the next one will also be difficult, and without energy, i would like to pay attention to it separately. to the magathe mission and the head of the magathe rafael grossi, who is criticized by many ukrainians on the one hand, saying, well, why does he go to the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant to communicate with muscovites, he also went to kursk here, but where are the results, why does the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant continue to be located sub-occupation, various sabotages continue, which, in fact, nikopol residents, who

see these diversions, in fact, because of the great meadow, so to speak, and the cooling tower was on fire recently, well, some say that if there was no magate mission, it would have been even worse, please evaluate what work has been done during these years of a great war, a full-scale invasion by the head of the magat and experts, analysts, representatives mission, well, first of all, i believe that the stay of the mission of magatena. not useful, because we have lost sources of information, well , maybe some special services have sources of information from the au, but for example, i had a lot of personal contacts, and all these personnel left for the controlled territory, this is, firstly, secondly, worse, they are as independent observers, understood that the mandate of magate does not provide, for example, any such... requirements for the occupying administration

to make some technical decisions, no , but they write messages that the international nuclear community trusts, because we blame russia, russia blames us, and when the mission appeared, and now for the last year, i was surprised that they began to write more... such frank such reports, for example, about the fact that they began to distinguish the exits of the anti-aircraft missile barrel artillery next to the as, or the arrivals, they previously figured it out, figured it out, although they are not military experts, they must be an inspector for the accounting and control of nuclear materials there, so what is the iaea, it was created to control the implementation of the treaty on... not the proliferation of nuclear weapons, but

the accounting and control of nuclear materials is the main function, and among the employees of the iaea there are only people who are in charge of accounting and control of nuclear... they have such inspector position, others are experts in nuclear security, traditional security, operational security, and so on, and he cannot say that this attack was carried out by russia, because russia recently wrote in its notes at the invitation of the russian side that the magathe mission and that dad, that is, as soon as... they write the truth, they will not be invited to zas anymore. the second point, now we do not have a head of the permanent representation of international organizations in vienna since november

23rd, and when the kursk military operation began, the russians, well, they started provocations, notes to write. for example, on august 9 , a note was registered in which it was written that we found rocket fragments on the kurs industrial site, then the phrase: facts of direct fire, kurchatov, kurskas, kurs power structures were not recorded, then on august 11, a fire in grodyrna with... accusations of ukraine, that two drones were hit, despite the fact that the cooling tower has means of radio-electronic warfare, there are means of monitoring the walls, which need power supply, and the fire was due to the fact that there are reliable sources from the zaporizhzhya as,

they reported, a generator with a reserve of fuel, therefore such a powerful fire was spectacular with smoke so black, that's all. there were no nuclear radioactive materials there 2 km from the power units, that is, there was no nuclear danger, but this is in the framework of the preparation of an informational statement before accusing ukraine that we intend to buy the kas course, and by the way , unfortunately, our ukrainian political scientists, political technologists , who comment on all questions. they began to develop conspiracy theories there, that one should buy in order to exchange for zas, or something else, but we, unlike russia, we adhere to international obligations, and for example, my native soldiers, and i know how difficult it is

to adhere to the geneva conventions for the treatment of prisoners of war, and it is a risk to life when you take them out of the front line. that is, the purpose of the kursk operation is completely different in my opinion, no one is going to shell the russians there again, they met in person all august, the head of the post-revolutionary russia ulyanov met with grossi, persuaded him to go to kursk, he came, they insisted that he admit that this was the result of shelling kursk as ukrainian armed forces. but he also did not say anything, that is, the work of magate is actually quite important, not just declarative, as many said at the beginning, but these are really useful steps, as far as we can see at the moment according to the announcement of energoatom that magate

will expand the representation of its monitoring missions in ukrainian infrastructure facilities that have an impact on the safety of nuclear power plants, it seems to me... it will be good, especially when such massive attacks will unfortunately continue. well, for example, why such a proposal from the ukrainian side arose because on the 26th they were on the verge of a radiation accident, why? when, for example, something hits a transformer near the as, an open switchgear near the as, the emergency protection system stops the power units as scheduled. the chain reaction and safety stops, this time the russians hit the transformers not next to the as, but somewhere the second line is like that, but they are important for the output of power, they also hit the grid, they hit and

fluctuations began in the network, and the reactor did not know how to behave, that is, on august 26 i will remind to the audience that the attack was just on outputs from nuclear power plants, and i think that the magathe mission, well, in fact, will help to control the situation, if not to put pressure on russia, as you say, then at least fix, fix, well, yesterday the first such visit was in near magatets, the nearest one is somewhere there, they are also in khmelnytskyi, rivneskyi, in southern ukraine, that is , they recorded the degree of destruction, there will be a technical report, it is clear that there are many such objects in ukraine. on which security depends, and we were then actually also on

the limits of the blackout, that is, the breakdown of the power system will unite parts, and the first, third, and fourth rymna power units stopped irregularly, the khmelnytskyi power unit was working, the output of the strengthened power system was not unified, to poland through the kharesov line, and then. the southern ukrainian one due to fluctuation or changes in purity is irregular and so on, why is it dangerous? there is such a thing as the engineer says, a dangerous opening of the safety valve, and it is like an explosion, there is such a sound as an explosion, in the first circuit, and the loss of the coolant of the first circuit is water, which cools not... directly heat generating assemblies in the reactor core,

fortunately for us the valves closed, but if they had not closed, it would have been like my island in the usa, the accident, the meltdown of the core, when the loss of coolant goes, the meltdown of the core with emission of radioactivity, in the 79th year of the usa there was such a thing, it is very dangerous, and the fact that ukraine wrote a note. officially, it is correct, and only after that, when the note was in public access, something was written by our regulator, the regulatory state, the minister is now actively promoting the dangers for the nuclear power plant, that is, on the one hand, the russians allegedly comply with article 56 of the additional protocol to the geneva conventions, which states that it is not possible to fire at a nuclear plant or dams that contain

dangerous forces for the population, but you see, they are not shelling the object specifically, but the second generation line, well, they designed as, soviet times, they know these vvr 1000, vvr 440 that we operate, well, i think that in the second part of our program, we will talk with olga kosharna about sanctions which it is necessary to implement in the opinion of ukrainians the international community against rosatom, this is important, because rosatom knows the construction of ukrainian nuclear power plants, that is why such massive attacks continue. let's take a break and be back in the studio in a moment. events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, the news feed reports about them, but not much is known. what is happening must be understood. antin borkovskii and invited experts soberly

assess the events, analyze them, modeling our future. every saturday at 1:10 p.m., with a repeat of sunday at 10:10. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna. andriy smoliy and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso.

returning to the espresso studio, olga kosharna, an independent expert on nuclear energy and security. guest espresso interview. so, ms. olya, we stopped with you on such a delicate but strategically important topic, the topic of sanctions against rosatom. they are being talked about in the european union, the united states, and great britain. but dare to impose restrictions against a large corporation that has essentially unleashed its, well, claws on all continents. they don't dare, they talked about the 10th and 11th, it seems, a package, but nothing happened there. in your opinion, how important is it now to start, at least with something, in order to screw up the nuts ? well, it is very important, sanctions and personal against the management of the state corporation

and against some companies connected, well, to rosatam, there are many companies there. and engineering, and production, and with a nuclear fuel cycle, and so on, well, the usa, great britain and ukraine used them. as for european countries, because of the personal position of slovakia and hungary, which, for example, issued a license in 2022 for the construction of spaksh according to a russian project for russian loans, but there will be no consolidated sanctions against rosat. moreover,... on the one hand, france supports ukraine, even macron said that he did not mind if the french troops were there on the territory of ukraine, but the state company fromatom created a joint venture with the russian company twel on the territory of germany to produce

heat-releasing assemblies for the soviet fvr 440 reactors under the license of the russian company tvl , well, it's according to... not the standards, it's the first thing, that's why i believe that our diplomats should work with the colleagues of the european states of the european union, so that they apply, starting with personal sanctions against management. likhachev, there is the head of the corporation, he also goes to vienna there, meets magate, vienna, you understand, and so on, as far as projects in... rosatom's portfolio of orders is 140 billion dollars all over the world, all over the world, here i see that bangladesh is building there, turkey, india, china, egypt, now kazakhstan is considering and signing some memoranda, uzbekistan, kyrgyzstan, and they are building not

only nuclear power plants, for example, in kyrgyzstan they have a hydroelectric power station, but also a small one. small modular there is some kind of russian reactor yes therefore, i believe that our partners, who have authority and influence on the governments, for example, egypt or bangladesh, they somehow have to come to an agreement behind the scenes, well, here it must be said that not only the construction of facilities is taking place, here countries are being fed russian nuclear fuel , tv company ukraine. has already refused and uses the american house, it is possible to take the first step, it really is sanctions against tvel and that those countries that already have, unfortunately, nuclear blocks built by russia, switch to other fuel nuclear ones, well this is also a paradox, because back in the 14th year the european commission issued a communication,

it was dedicated to the energy security of europe and... for the first time it was analyzed what types of energy resources each state depends on imports, and it was recommended in the 14th year to look for another supplier, the second, to diversify the supply of nuclear fuel for soviet projects, there are 19 such reactors now, when the full-scale second one began, the first in march of the 22nd year, finland abandoned the russian project, they... were planning a new construction, and now finland has also already announced that they bought a batch of westinghouse fuel for vvr 440 reactors . you see, something can be done, that is, 12 years were lost, well, 12, 10, and why only finland, maybe, well now they

were united, the czech republic is also on this path, there are movements, but it is not very fast, unlike gas, raw materials, this is a technological product, it is necessary to carry out research and exploitation there, that is, it takes four years. eh, and now they have united and are using the ukrainian experience of introducing fuel westinghouse, we are also on 440s, previously vvr 1000 westinghouse fuel, and now last year we loaded the first batch for vvr 440, the first second rivnesky on one of the blocks, but while this zone will be fueled by one manufacturer, we need... a few fuel campaigns 3-4 years. well, here, if such specific examples already exist, i think that the european union really needs to make

some economic restrictions, some sanctions, even if they are insignificant, against the russians based on such real stories as with finland, as well as with ukraine, which uses american fuel for nuclear reactors. well, if we talk about nuclear energy in the world, where is ukraine going? integrated, in particular into the european union, how much does the international community still bet on renewable energy sources, or will the peaceful atom remain one of the main suppliers of current for many years? i think the best mix is ​​renewables with nuclear power, because we have to do the paris, the paris agreement to change. climate, and now there are a lot of projects, this is the current trend for development small and medium-sized modular reactors,

more, more than 80 different projects already, and the pioneer is canada, they have such territories, northern ones, where, well, for example, like in russia, here, the northern sea route, yes, there only 30 days there in a year you can have... diesel fuel, they adopted at the state level a program for the introduction of small and medium-sized modular reactors, they selected three different technologies, three different suppliers, and the first unit should be operational in the 28th year, we have time to monitor , as the process goes, that is, to select the best technology after the victories.

for example, i know that the dtek company considered these technologies in order to build them, and what would lead to the invasion, to build them on the sites of thermal power plants on coal, and now akhmetov is actually left without a business in thermal generation, because the russians damaged everything and ... this is the direction he has renewable sources in these storage batteries, and i think that there are early investors, the company is american-ukrainian, where andriy kobolev is also there, they studied the possibilities of industrial localization of the production of these reactors and so the rest is here, and i think that this is the future of nuclear energy in ukraine together with the development of hydrogen generation and... solar wind, and about the near future, it is a really difficult winter, which awaits us distributed generation, which was announced

by the authorities, to what extent the energy of the sun, wind, water and indeed nuclear power plants can balance in the conditions of shelling of the russian federation, because i will remind you, well, you will not get anywhere. they will continue on the objects of the energy infrastructure, they will be, i am sure, well, first of all, wind and solar, they need to be balanced, because wind generation is even better than solar, because the wind also happens at night, we had a skew in other countries of the world: 70% of wind generation and about 30% of solar generation, and we had the opposite, because the tariff was included in the law . the law named after the kliuyev brothers, i call it, that is, they tied the cost of a kilowatt to the euro in a legal, not a resolution of the national energy regulatory commission, so that it could be canceled. that is, and that is why

it was given for development, but not proportional, no, not balanced, and, well, here we have what we have, but we lost that 18 gw electricity generation of various kinds, including wind power generation, in particular in the occupied territories that are no longer in our power system, you understand, that is, for example, in the kherson region, in the occupied clearing, there are many wind power plants that were useful for... once there were, but that’s how , that's why i see a survey for balancing gas turbines on gas pistons and power plants on biogas, but about biogas one of such objects saw a fairly recent solution, it's true, it's a modern small compact complex, it's clear that a little bit is possible and the smell from it is not so

the unnatural goes. but nevertheless, this is an investment, this locality is certain, and this is a natural resource for providing electricity, in fact, even for a small paradise center. in your opinion, as far as possible, not at the state level, but at the level of companies, businesses, such objects can become powerful and powerful for entrepreneurs, well, i hope for ukrainian business, for private investments, for the sake of... security first after all, the process has already begun, i believe that it is necessary to attract private business there on the basis of public-private partnerships, even for small and medium-sized nuclear reactors, are also possible, that is, to provide for your company plus society, so definitely, and i believe that, for example, our partners or foreign investors, they should

cooperate with territorial communities. i believe that this is centralization, how minister galushchenko wants to manage everything, no, it is impossible, it is impossible to coordinate, i see that he poorly manages and coordinates, for example, the energy support fund, where are the donors, i recommend it to my colleagues abroad and in poland it is different, to communicate and communicate with territorial communities, and here it is... it will be very productive, are there certain cases of successful territorial communities, which are as independent as possible, prepared for winter , perhaps installed small biodiesel plants or large generators, which villages can at least supply such social infrastructure with electricity , well, i took part in the transmission of khmelnytskyi regional television and here is

khmelnytskyi. as an example, they went for three years to provide the most critical infrastructure, ternopil and zhytomyr, these are the mayors, in fact, the mayors who go there to an international conference, attract investments and so on, so i think that this is the hope for maintaining normal conditions, where an investor can specifically come to a certain location. to see the object, to know exactly where the funds are invested, in which installation, on which plot of land, and not just help for a general, general account, let's talk about the state, and then where will these funds be directed, to which project will they be directed, well now quite difficult, but in particular i follow the international ones revenues, the authorities announce record sums for both energy and social

payments for... business, but i would like to see a specific calculation that society and the public do not see, where did the hryvnia, dollar or euro go? well, here are my colleagues, experts, independent public organizations, the association of energy efficiency of cities there, and so on, they conduct trainings on how to draw up a business plan for a specific project, and when the community comes with such a business plan already, for example, well, i don't know such cases to from the support fund energy industry which is managed by the ministry, something was allocated by the territorial community for a specific project, unfortunately i do not know of such examples, but if we talk about global financing by international partners for a minute, it is interesting, after all, what global projects are currently being implemented by the ministry of energoatom, well, energoatom of global projects, preparatory work on site x3, x4 without any.