congratulations, friends, the second part of the verdict program is live on the espresso tv channel. my name is serhiy rudenko, and for the next 45 minutes we will talk about the following. the secret plan to win. next week , the president of ukraine will present a strategy for overcoming russian aggression in the united states. does zelensky have a backup plan in case of a negative response from biden. raising taxes and rebooting customs. zelenskyi's team is looking for an additional half a trillion to finance the army. shouldn't it have been necessary to optimize expenditures on the state apparatus first? the budget of pessimism. the cabinet of ministers submitted to the parliament the draft of the country's main estimate for the next year. why does the government want to keep funding? a single telethon

against the background of freezing social standards. we will talk about all this with our guests today, however, before starting our conversation, i suggest you take part in our survey. today we ask you this: do you expect biden's approval of zelensky's victory plan? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no if you have your separate opinion, please leave it in the comments under this video. if you... watch us on tv, take your smartphone or phone and vote on the numbers 0800 211 381 yes no 0800 211 382 e no, so all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote , and we already have our first expert in contact, this is vitaliy kulyk, director of the center for researching problems.

of civil society, mr. vitaly, i congratulate you, thank you for joining ours conversations, serhiy taran, a political scientist, should still be on our air, we are waiting for the inclusion, mr. vitaly, if you would answer this question, as tv viewers, our viewers, to say whether you hope for biden's approval of zelensky's victory plan? i think that what is called zelensky's plan for victory is not a big one. for biden, and in many respects it was agreed by the american side and our other western partners, it is only a matter of specifying some parameters, some qualitative indicators of its implementation phasing, but in general it is obvious and it was clear what we are talking about, about the phased conduct of negotiations, that negotiations are not necessarily the end of the war, that is, the beginning of the negotiation process is the end of the war, that this is not a sign of cowardice, strictly speaking ... this is what biden will talk about, we

will talk about it in more detail during this program, because there are various statements, there is a statement by zelensky, there are many publications in the western press that write about this victory plan, but we will start our conversation from today in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, more precisely because the parliament was unable to pass resolution no. 1118 on de. certification of the names of 333 ukrainian settlements and a member of the verkhovna rada committee on humanitarian policy, mykola knyazhytskyi explained the failure of the vote on the resolution by active work in the hall of opponents of the renaming. let's listen to what knyazhytsky said. today there was a resolution on renaming settlements in connection with our policy of decolonization, there are many cities called may day, may day or have other names

connected either with the russian invaders, or with the communist past, with the communist ideology, we have always done this, but now the decolonization clause has been added to it, the committee worked for a very long time on this draft law, on this resolution, it was included in hall, everyone hoped that there would be enough votes, because as you know, questions are brought to the hall that are ready, instead, the opponents of these renamings actively worked in the hall, the result was 208, as i remember votes, and so did ruslav... stefanchuk tried to explain why they didn't actually vote, it was supposed to be about five localities that were supposed to vote in the parliament, but the majority in the verkhovna rada was against it, that is, they considered the renaming of yuzhny, yuzhnoukrainskaya controversial , senelnikovo, pervomaysk and pavlograd, well, this is such a story, and i have to tell you. dear viewers,

we have already been joined by serhiy taran, political expert, political scientist, mr. serhiy, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, i congratulate you, therefore, in the conditions of war, the verkhovna rada refuses... to implement the law on decolonization and does not want to vote for the renaming of 333 cities and forces in ukraine, why do you think that the parliament still demonstrates the inability to make decisions that are beyond any doubt during the war , they are very important, because we know that the russians, who enter our territory, the first thing they do is return the monument to... lenin, soviet streets, as well as soviet names of cities. mr. vitaly, perhaps i will go against the grain, as they say, i would like to to ask the citizens living in these settlements whether they are ready to change the name of their settlements, as far as i know, some of them who are on this list were

categorically, well, a large part, sociology showed that they were against the change, proposed by or institute of memory. or those that appeared in the documents submitted to the verkhovna rada about changing their name, because in my opinion this issue should have been discussed, including with the residents of these cities, and the renaming initiative should have come from there, and not from the top of the structures government, central government. yes, i understand that we now have to speed up decolonization, some decisions have to be made quickly. and we don’t have time for local referendums, but at least a poll could have been conducted, some preliminary work could have been conducted, such work, let’s say in some settlements, the same ones that appeared in the critical remarks, well, it was not conducted, so i, well,

actually i also do not see another voting result, there is no consensus on this issue in the hall, just as there is no consensus between by the central government and... by communities that are trying to rename, well, honestly, if only in kyiv one day the residents of the capital were asked whether the metro stations, komsomolska, pioneerska, as well as red square, you remember, are the same name, which there used to be stations in metro stations, then obviously we would never have reached a consensus, even if the government, no wait, the settlement and the name of the streets are different things, they are fundamentally different things, the settlement is where i... lives it is a settlement that is associated with a certain historical memory, and it is inhabited the point, actually speaking, well, of the settlement, this is how it can be assumed that behind this there is communism, there is a law before communism, there is a consensus regarding renaming, as a rule , in most cases, when it came to

communist names, the local community went to certain compromises and agreed to the renaming, that is, the initiative was seen from below as well, in this case the work was insufficient, in my opinion, in particular with pavel. people's deputy of ukraine roman lozynskyi from the voice faction said that in ukraine, in the parliament, there is ukrainian an informal association of deputies of the moscow patriarchate, who tricked their colleagues with all truths and lies, that's why there were only 208 votes for the taboo, this is a total shame for ukraine, this is revenge. mr. sergey, is this a rematch? it is rather indifference to the issues and... honesty, well, it must be said that the vast majority, maybe even the majority of those deputies who are now in the parliament, did not go to the parliament in order to change identity politics at all, especially during war, they were bothered by other respondents, many of them simply engaged in populism, some of them even

got there by accident, and when it comes to such issues, very delicate and important issues that require discussion, explanation, such as identity, there are simply many... some of them do not think that this is a priority, but they could not agree before the vote on renaming those settlements, those names that were associated with communist power, so this is just the face of the parliament, the fact that you and i cannot finally overcome this soviet legacy, well of course that the formation of identity politics is primarily the prerogative of the central government, because the central government asks the question of what kind of country we are, in which we live... what language should we speak, what is our vision of history, this is of course a question for the central government, it is necessary of course , consult with local self-government bodies, but we must understand that, after all, identity must be formed at the central level, otherwise we will get a

lot of identities within one country, and we know what this can lead to, well at least on the example of other countries. by the way, this thesis that the identity itself is formed at the local level, it is very popular in russia, in russia they always tried to convince us that this is the prerogative of local authorities, but i think that, of course, it is the prerogative of the central the government, which should take... responsibility and finally overcome this inheritance that no one needs, because we are now, as we can already see, we are already now, well, i hope, everyone can already see that it is not just there the question of culture, history, this is even more of a question, this is a matter of security, this is the security of the country, because depending on the historical environment in which the citizens live, their country can or cannot defend itself against external aggression, of course, and mr. vitaly already... taking into account your opinion, whether or not in general, during

the war with the country, the aggressor with russia, or whether this could have consequences for the parliament, when trust in the verkhovna rada will decrease, including due to such, failure to make such decisions, and you believe that trust in the verkhovna rada will increase due to making such a decision, i think that trust in the verkhovna rada is traditionally low, but... in this situation, well, that is, when you see that there is a whole association sitting there that cannot vote for the banning of the moscow church in ukraine, or cannot vote for decommunization and decolonization, the question generally arises, why is such a verkhovna rada needed? well, if the orientation is symbols, then it is possible, but if we talk more globally, about the impossibility of voting on important decisions, there is the issue of demobilization military personnel, the issues are related to the economic. politics, the issues are related to a whole case of legislative initiatives that have stalled in the parliament, which are not even

passed by the committees, it is generally about the inefficiency of the parliament as a body, where there is simply a remote module of the president's office, in which a certain decision is made and effective results are achieved voting by motivating a part of the party of satellites who add votes, and no majority exists. the parliament lost its trust not because someone did not vote of the law taken separately, this issue is systemic. during the last five years, in fact, this entire tenure is a complete destruction of trust in parliamentarism, i absolutely agree with you, let's say this, it is an obvious evidence that the parliament is losing its subjectivity and has probably lost its subjectivity during this time , when power was actually concentrated and remains concentrated in the hands of one or several persons in the state, and this... body, the highest legislative body, turns into one of the subdivisions

of the office of the president of ukraine, well, that's what we're all talking about we know, but in this situation it is important to understand, and what is the role of the parliament, including in the formation of this plan for the victory of zelenskyi, or whether it should or should be at least some information brought to the people's deputies of ukraine, discussed, because it is clear that in the verkhovna rada. there are specialists, narrow specialists, including in the formation of similar victory plans, or similar plans, but the parliament was not involved, and next week zelenskyi’s team is preparing to present a victory plan to present to the allies, and this was announced the day before president zelensky, let's listen to what zelensky said. in various formats of the meeting on the preparation of our ukrainian

victory plan, the real filling of all points: military filling, political, diplomatic, economic, more than 90% of everything is written out, and in the complex this package can ensure the correct development of the situation not only for ukraine, but also for everyone in the world who appreciates international law. today, the president of ukraine said that this victory plan is 100% ready, but because the international press writes differently. lemon today writes about the fact that there seems to be a clause that provides for biden's statement at the end of his presidential term that ukraine will be in nato, will join nato, that is, the statement should be made at the end of the presidential term. biden's term, mr. serhiy, how do you perceive the fact that

only a few people know the plan for the victory of ukraine, is it the necessity of wartime, maybe there is something secret, or maybe it is connected with the fact that the ukrainians who are actually going to victories and lead ukraine to victory, they should not know this, well, you see, we are now commenting on a victory plan that we have not seen or read. although the mass media abroad, i emphasize abroad, publish entire excerpts from this victory plan or entire theses, so we are in a difficult situation, but i will say how i perceive this victory plan. i perceive it as primarily a political document that ukraine is preparing in connection with the fact that in the west, in view of the american elections, they are preparing for such a large geopolitical bargain around ukraine, and that the negotiations are about some political nuances of the russian-ukrainian war

maybe, it is openly said, for example, by presidential candidate trump, and he will do it in the event of his election. scholz, the chancellor of germany, other german politicians, and not only german ones, speaks about this openly, and in this regard, ukraine needs to have a political, i repeat, a political position regarding these possible negotiations or some kind of at least discussions about a possible, well, i don't want to say a freeze, but at least i would say a strategic pause in the russian-ukrainian war, that is, as a political position, obviously, that the victory plan... is needed, because it shows what ukraine is ready for, what it is not ready for and what positions are fundamentally important for ukraine. if this is such a winning plan, then it seems to me that it is necessary. if we expect from the victory plan some calendar plan where our victory on the battlefield will be clearly written, then of course this is very naive, and this cannot be, if only because you and i do not

know, and this is correct, all the nuances, which take place at the front. we don't know the distribution of forces, we... know what's going on at the front, because a lot of it is a military secret, although, by the way, it is not a military secret to our international partners, so maybe sometimes they know more, but in any case, given that now the conditions of military time, we cannot expect that they will literally tell us where the ukrainian troops will attack and how they will go, it seems to me that this will only harm the front, so if we expect such a concrete victory of the plan that we will read and understand there ... that when it will happen, then this naively, but a political document is definitely needed, and when we talk about realistically, what will actually happen, then i think that it will be something mediocre, there will be a political vision of ukraine, but there will also be a political vision of the west, and it may differ from the ukrainian vision, if only because western countries, all together, and each of them

separately, protect their interests first of all, it is natural, they protect their interests, they care first of all. about their own security, and they are now helping ukraine, because they understand that by helping ukraine, they strengthen their own security, but they will only help ukraine to the extent that it does not harm or threaten their security, so they will certainly have their own vision of how the russian-ukrainian war should end or continue, and each country has it can be your own vision, well , for example, in great britain they are much more radical than, well, for example, in... germany, and when these interests are voiced in their plan, then for sure, a realistic plan will be somewhere in the middle, well and of course, one must take into account what russia will do or not do, and it is also obvious that there will still be a very serious vector of influence, this is china, or

the global south, it, as we see, is now influencing the situation at the front, if only because it can and piles of... russian energy carriers and this gives russia the opportunity to survive and it's not bad enough, and it can buy weapons for it, even sometimes it can directly buy some elements of weapons from china, so of course, some position of china and the global south, well at least in the form of of some individual countries, will be observed, so we are now standing on the threshold of, for sure, such significant geopolitical negotiations, trades, diplomatic games with... with an outcome that we cannot predict now, but in any case, these negotiations need the ukrainian political position, if this is the way to perceive this victory plan, then, for sure, what should be done, but in this case, if this is a political position, then of course it should be discussed publicly in ukraine, and because it is a ukrainian political position, and of course in parliament, and then it will be more presentable

in the international arena to say that this is exactly the position of ukraine, and not only there... the position of individual politicians or the country's leadership, i think that sooner or later it will definitely come to this, i am convinced that this plan one way or another, at least the political part of it will be made public in the coming days, we will have more information then. thank you, mr. serhiy, mr. vitaly, how do you feel about this victory plan, that is, if this plan is based, according to the presidential team, on the fact that the main component is the aid of the united states of america, as i understand it, military and... political including if that aid is going to be any other, does that mean it's plan a, but in addition to plan a, there may be plan b, and plan c, so now there is no. such a wide discussion around this plan, we do not hear you, and if

we say that this is a plan of ukraine, then accordingly it should be discussed in society, ukrainian society, it should be a consolidated plan of ukrainian society, and this should be when they speak as one the parliament, the president, and civil society, and the armed forces of ukraine. and this is the consolidated position of the country, not zelenskyi’s plan there, zelenskyi’s plan for victory, and if it is a political position, yes, first it should be a public discussion in ukraine, and then it should be brought to the international arena and presented there, as already consolidated position, at least probably an iteration of such a discussion should take place at least in the regime of records, but as far as i understand, no one in ukrainian society with any political forces, not with the parliament, not with the expert specialists... it was discussed, and this time, first of all, from what is available, from those sources of insider information that are available, one should not have any exaggerated expectations from this, in

ukraine, there is a small enough corridor for maneuver , it is obvious that zelensky will try to fit us into the agenda of the event and offer a certain vision of his, how the event, the event should act, no matter who becomes the president... of the united states or whatever the actual situation was in europe, this such an ideal situation when the west us supports and is moving with us towards some kind of end of the war of the hot phase from positions that are beneficial for ukraine, does not impose some middle point on us with a compromise from our side with the preservation of the interests of russia, but some kind of compromise, but taking into account the ukrainian one. interest, these are approximately the initial positions of the ukrainian authorities, which turn to western partners, it is also necessary for the elections in the united states to create

a certain framework for discussion, so that the topic of the ukrainian topic acquires a certain positive for kyiv, it was not the subject of fierce fights between the republicans and the democrats, and there was no such comfortable... look for both opposing camps, and it really is to make some headway in this negotiation itch, which has now captured most of the countries that are beginning to generate various negotiation plans, turkey, the vatican, australia, this, brazil, china are acting, even lukashenko mentions that it is the same platform for negotiations, here... kazakhstan offers its services as a negotiator, so we constantly we hear about these plans, we are constantly talking about the creation of some new possible cases, where

this negotiation, these negotiations could be scattered and where some positions could be discussed separately, we see that the negotiations of small cases about the association about the exchange of prisoners are progressing quite effectively, and some negotiations are taking place. in the arab countries with the participation of intermediaries, whether this is an element of a big negotiation case or not, we cannot say clearly yet, since this information is not widely available, we only hear rumors, some echoes, information, their interpretation, and again, in my opinion, zelenskyi's plan should not give much of a plan for the negotiation process, the creation of a general framework for negotiations, if we are really ready for... we hear from the president that the war must be stopped in this year, we hear from president zelensky that we are starting negotiations and are ready for a discussion with everyone, we

hear from our officials or politicians that it would be good to invite russia to negotiations, at least through an intermediary, we hear about a new iteration negotiations with china, but somehow we do not hear from our authorities a framework, a vision of a cross-coordinated, unified idea of ​​this negotiation process. well, maybe this framework will appear in this speech and in this appeal called the victory plan, i hope so, although i am more of a realist here than an optimist. well, let's wait for the presentation of this plan for victory in the united states of america, it will be literally in a week, and we'll see what zelensky actually offers. i think that the western media will actively cover that's all, especially since it's not only about the future of ukraine, but the whole world. friends, i am appealing to those who watch us on tv and on youtube and facebook platforms, please take part in our survey, today we ask you

this, do you hope that biden will approve zelensky's victory plan, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, a separate opinion, please write your separate opinion in the comments below this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote for by numbers 0800 211 381 yes, no 0800 211 382 no, and all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up this vote. i remind you that serhii taran and vitaliy kulyk are on the air today, gentlemen, let's talk about what is happening in domestic politics, or rather domestic, domestic economy, because this week the verkhovna rada of ukraine adopted in the first reading a bill on raising taxes in ukraine, money is needed for the budget of 500 billion hryvnias for military needs, and tax

bill, let me remind you. that he foresees that the military levy will be increased from 1.5% to 5%, taxes on the first and second groups of fops will be increased, advance payments on gas stations, 1% on all forms of fops of the third group, 25% of the profit on the financial institution will increase, monthly reporting personal income tax for economy bookings and 50% tax on bank profits. in 2024, in parallel, the parliament adopted a law on amendments to the customs code regarding the introduction of attestation of officials of customs authorities, which is called the law on reloading customs it is expected that within a few years this should increase budget revenues by uah 100 billion. well, actually such a decision was adopted by the parliament, the decision on

taxes is final. not yet, but it is clear that we are talking about the strengthening of tax pressure, in light of this, mr. serhiy, why does the verkhovna rada of ukraine not consider issues, for example, regarding the optimization of the state apparatus, which would be quite logical during the war, or the detinization of the economy, about it's been 30 years, everyone says, but everything is coming to an end by raising taxes. to those who pay these taxes, please, well, it seems to me that the verkhovna rada chose a slightly wrong path, and in general, when we hear that taxes are being raised, eh, we should not hear that this automatically means income to the budget, so that when taxes are too high and too oppressive, then business simply flees to that country or even from that country, especially

during war. therefore, i do not know how the calculations for raising taxes were in the verkhovna rada, but in general i will allow myself to assume that in fact, it would be logical to lower taxes now and create the best possible conditions for doing business in ukraine, especially during the war, eh, because even now , during the war, business barely survives, the one that managed to stand on its feet, not yet left the country, still... somehow works in these conditions, when there is no electricity and generally not the best conditions for doing business, to put it mildly, so business must be supported now, by reducing tax pressure, you can ask, where to get money ? and i am very simple for you answered: we have a very long-term dialogue with our western partners about supporting ukraine during the war, and we managed to agree on those things that would have seemed incredible to agree on there a year or two

ago, it was very difficult. agree there, for example, there about airplanes, about missiles, but from time to time we see that it was possible to achieve success, and the west helped us with weapons, and even those that even at the beginning did not want to provide, so if the west could give us high-quality and high-precision weapons and will continue to provide, then surely it is not possible to agree on an increase in financial support for ukraine so that ukrainian business survives and thereby... a larger tax base appears and more taxes come into the budget, because there would simply be more business. i think this is a matter of negotiation. of course, it is difficult to talk about money in the west, but it is definitely easier than talking about weapons in the west, because weapons are a difficult political decision, but to help ukraine financially, i think, will be much easier for many western countries, because not it's about weapons, it's not about long-range strikes...