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zelenskyi says that the plan for ukraine's victory is already ready, but ukrainians will certainly not be the first to see it, only after western politicians. why so? meanwhile, the head of the polish foreign ministry is considering the possibility of holding an honest referendum in crimea. is this even possible? this is svoboda live, my name is iryna sisak. i congratulate you. the victory plan for ukraine is completely ready. this was announced by president volodymyr zelenskyi. however, the text of the document from... the general public is currently kept secret, the first to evaluate zelensky's plan will be us president joe biden, with whom zelensky plans to meet next week during the un general assembly in new york and officially present the work. as the ukrainian president previously stated, it will depend on biden whether they will give ukraine what is mentioned in the victory plan. as for the content, it is currently known that the document will include four points: political, military, economic and diplomatic. details. told about them

mykhailo podolyak, adviser to the head of the president's office. he clarified that it will be about a clear military package, increasing investments in military production in ukraine, as well as about diplomatic pressure and pathetic coercion of russia, which in particular consists in the fact that ukraine itself can choose which alliance to be a member of. by the way, one of the points of the plan is the kurdish operation of the armed forces, zelenskyi reported earlier. also, according to him, there is not and cannot be any alternative now. peace and no freezing of war. as for the plan, how said the president of ukraine, now the most important thing is the determination to implement it. there is and cannot be any alternative to peace, no freezing of the war, or any other manipulations that will simply move russian aggression to another stage. we need reliable and long-term security for ukraine, and therefore for the whole of europe. that's why. we work

next, we talk with oleksandr musienko, head of the center for military legal studies, about the victory plan and the prospects for its implementation. he joins our broadcast. alexander, good evening to you good evening. i congratulate you. here in the public space we have only such individual general points of this victory plan. in particular, it is about four blocks of the document: military, economic, diplomatic and political. from what is available at the moment, how can you rate it? perhaps you know more details than before. this plan, from what i know, i can say that it definitely does not foresee a departure from the general rhetoric of the president of ukraine, regarding the position of the general framework of how the war should end, restoration of ukraine's territorial integrity and security guarantees, that is, i can say that the first part refers to the fact that, obviously, we need to provide further support so that ukraine can... continue the struggle, that is,

even starting from the position that we we have to provide, let's say, the conditions for the same strong negotiating position, as some say... in the west, it is still a necessary element. secondly, it concerns the fact that the kurdish operation is brought under this, as an element of that, and a demonstration that ukraine is capable to seize the initiative in certain areas of the front. accordingly, in order to be able to continue this, we need solutions and increased assistance, in particular for strikes deep into russian territory, in particular with jesem attack shadow missiles. this is also a block of questions. the next thing is that we need to solve the issue of strategic support and financing, at least for the next year of our needs, so that they do not decrease and that all these volumes arrive on time. as for the military component, there is also a block of

security guarantees, which provides for, well, ukraine's entry to nato, or the placement of american troops - this is the idea that can be on the territory of ukraine, that is, accordingly. bases, as far as political economic pressure is concerned, nothing particularly new, this is the issue of expanding sanctions, and this is the issue of the expansion and formation of a coalition led by the united states in support of ukraine. as far as i know, this draft document does not provide for any things about the fact that there is a ceasefire, a freeze on the conflict, a discussion of options. oleksandr, why is this document so secret? because his the first to see it will not be the ukrainian people, not the parliamentarians who are representatives of the ukrainian people, but us president joe biden, well, there is logic in this, because the us is a key partner of ukraine, what do you think? first of all, people will see this document, it is impossible not to see it and

no one will keep it a secret, i myself am against keeping anything a secret, especially what concerns the continuation of our struggle, because the cause of the war concerns the ukrainian the people who act against. russian aggression, and it would probably be it is unfair and wrong to the people not to demonstrate and not to show, so this plan will be shown, secondly, even at the stage when this plan will be presented in the united states, believe me, for some reason i think that there will be so many publications in the american media with reference to unnamed sources, in particular among high-ranking american officials, that the main details will already be in the media. the next point, as far as i... understand the logic, this plan involves agreement with the partners, because a lot depends on it, how to move forward, and accordingly, after that the president plans to return from the united states, i think he will inform the ukrainian society about the results of the visit, and the plan will be presented

with the marks of what has been agreed with the partners, or not agreed, unfortunately, with the partners, i hope that after all, it will be agreed, and it will be presented, that is, i think that no one is going to keep it... a secret, it is impossible, and if this document is not approved, then what will be rewritten this plan, as you can see ? i think that the next one will blow up work with partners in any case, that is, it is necessary to understand globally that this plan is a plan from ukraine, it is absolutely clear and natural that it should come from the official kyiv, well, because we are on the front lines of this struggle, we see that yes... how should we help, how should we act together. by the way, as far as i understand, joint production of weapons can also be recorded in this plan, that is, ukraine declares certain obligations to produce its own weapons, we do not deviate from this, because this too we need it, and actually speaking, this is also

the path from which no one will go, if something is not agreed, it is unfortunate, of course, but still work with partners will continue, we do not have them. another way out. garast, president zelenskyi, and mykhailo podolyak, adviser to the head of the president's office, stated that the document does not discuss the freezing of hostilities, alternatives to peace, or the transfer of part of ukrainian territories to russia. in your opinion, should we expect any surprises from the document, or perhaps changes positions already after they are presented to partners in the usa. and, you know, i would say that... and can the position change over time, of course, because there is a course of hostilities, there is a continuation of the struggle, there are conditions that affect, and they concern, in particular, our partners, that is, we understand very well that we are dependent on

our partners in many ways, and this is also a fact, and it would be difficult for us to fight against russia on our own, russia cannot fight against us by itself, they need iran, north korea, china, they do not drag out these... wars, one must understand that and we would not extract, so their opinion and position is important, and this is definitely a fact. the second point, could this mean that if the position of the partners... at some stage changes, it will force us to adjust the position as well, of course, yes, i cannot completely rule it out, but at the moment, as far as i know, none the position is not adjusted from the goals that the president announced earlier, there is no such thing, we mentioned it, i want to once again return to the question that the kurdish operation of the armed forces of ukraine, as president zelenskyi said, it is in this the plan of victory, at the same time, the publication of rbc with reference to sources. in the defense forces writes that the russian federation plans to oust the armed forces of the kursk region by

mid-october. russian troops allegedly received such a task. and probably russia has already achieved this ratio of five to one for the counteroffensive. confirm or deny this information? we currently do not have the option. but what do you think, if ukraine does lose kurshchyna, what then? that is, this item from the plan will no longer be so important in this plan? from what i know, from mine sources in force. defense of ukraine, ukraine, let's say, plans to stay in kurtshchyna for a long time, as much as our resources and means will allow. the second point that i can state, well, you see, the deadlines are pushed back, the initial deadline was the first of october, which stood in front of the russian command, to push out the ukrainian troops, they already state that they will not fulfill it. the third point that can be stated is that russia has already started a counteroffensive and... the first stage of this counteroffensive is unsuccessful, ukrainian troops managed to keep the situation

under control. fourth, in principle, today the conditions are such that our forces have strengthened the flanks, provided logistics and can hold certain lines, well, for a certain period of time, creating a so-called sanitary zone, restraining russian troop groups, and at this stage it will be important to extract as much as possible more troops. the enemy, so that they do not go to the east of our country, to weaken the enemy's pressure there, and in this way, shackling the russian groups, forcing them, including to go to these frontal attacks, bear losses, as long as we can, of course, afford to hold on, when it is already clear that the enemy, for example, will gather even more strength, and it will become more difficult to do so, then of course the plans can be adjusted and anticipated, including the gradual exit from the kurdish region, but this is definitely not the end. october, and what is your forecast, i.e. do you have an understanding of any time frame,

is it all relative, that’s all, it’s all very relative and will depend on the course and development of the hostilities of the operational situation, but for sure now there is no question that ukrainian troops are going to withdraw from the kursk region in the near future. oleksandr, here in the president's office they say that this victory plan is aimed at forcing russia to end its aggression, but what about russia? how can they react to this, and by the way, if, as we understand, the russian federation will be invited to the second peace summit, as we understand it, and someone will come, then it turns out that zelensky can show his victory plan to putin as well, maybe if russia does come, that is, russia again it is necessary to force, the main question is what, the main question is that the philosophy should be changed somewhat, because those who talk about possible negotiations with russia, they go to the point that logically putin should go to them, and why should he them to leave, if he is not

forced to do so, if he is not forced, he will not go, and here, how to force him, and he can be forced only by complex actions that involve a military nature and economic and political, military nature - these are actions such as the kurdish operation, and when putin told the eastern economic forum in vladivostok that it is necessary to return to the istanbul agreements and for some reason forget... about the fresh ultimatum that ukraine should leave zaporizhzhia and give kherson to russia, this shows that the kurdish operation already had consequences, if such operations were to develop, continue and help ukraine to continue this struggle, this would also change the position of russia, this is the only way to achieve it, otherwise, otherwise the russian delegation will not come, otherwise it will be difficult, almost impossible, to achieve some concessions from the kremlin, from putin, so it is about it is necessary to increase the pressure in various directions, primarily military, to look for these moments,

these elements, it is not just that we are in a difficult situation, we really have a difficult situation in the east, we have a difficult struggle, we are also exhausted, we also need resources, but to look for solutions are like the kurdish operation and try to implement them including and then turn against putin, well, this is something that needs to be worked on, and what do you think, this plan for victory, what perspective does it have, is it a plan for a quick victory? whether it is for years, he has some kind of time frame, you know, i think yes, he might have a time frame, but war always makes adjustments. an ideal plan that would work precisely according to the time mechanism, in general, it seems to me, is difficult to imagine, practically impossible, and it is a utopia, but to write a concept, according to which the situation and events should develop, it is quite possible. thank you for your thoughts, it was oleksandr musienko, head of the center for military legal research. thank you. thank you. and what is the plan for ukraine's victory seen by its

citizens? we asked the residents about this dnipro, zaporizhzhia and kyiv. this is not the case. sociology, however, the opportunity to listen to the expectations of the ukrainians themselves, if russia wants to encroach on our territory, i do not agree with that, but probably only military actions, only to agree, to give some territory or, well, i don’t see anything else, because there are many more of them than us. by military means, only by military means, because in 2014 they gave an opportunity for the minsk agreements, as a result of which the war ended. i would like to listen to him, first the president, and then draw conclusions. still, he is our commander-in-chief, i think, has the right to make a final decision. i see no reason yet to believe that we can achieve a complete and comprehensive victory militarily,

so it will most likely be a combination of both. on the one hand, i would like it... to really be a victory, to liberate, liberate our lands, but how much, when it will happen, and the guys die, i understand, the end of the war, to withdraw their troops and everything, without we won't do anything in the usa if they don't help us with weapons or give us money, yes even weapons and money, and people, guys are not enough, this is how he can go to ...

if only they stopped all this, to be honest, i just want to get home, for me it will be something incredible, and to the occupied territory, it is necessary to take back all the territories that were taken from us, it will be fair. these are the opinions regarding the plan of victory among the ukrainians, with whom my colleagues talked, we ask you about this, what should be the plan of victory and what it should be about, write. in the comments under this issue. the version of the victory plan prepared by the ukrainian authorities, candidates for the presidency of the united states will probably see it as well. the representative of the republicans in the us presidential elections, donald trump, as reuters writes, said that he can hold a meeting with volodymyr zelenskyi next week, when he comes to the un general assembly. however, he did not provide any details. at the same time , the bloomberg publication, citing its own

sources, reports on the planned meeting of zelenskyi with the vice president of the united states and the candidate for election. of the democratic party by kamala haris. there are no details here either. earlier, zelensky himself stated that he would present the plan going to both candidates. we talk about this further with andrii vesilovskyi, ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of ukraine. he joins our broadcast. mr. andrii, good evening to you. good evening. the american elections are less than two months away. do you think there will be meetings between the president of ukraine and the candidates for the presidency of the united states, and what can they talk about there? "if nothing extraordinary happens, if president zelenskyy arrives in the united states on time, if the protocols of these parties work well, then the meetings will take place almost 100% with kamela garis because she said "i will meet with president

zelensky" and possibly with former president trump because he said "maybe i will meet" so the word "maybe" in his lexicon gives him permission, well opportunity, sorry for the groupology, i have to say that the schedules were, uh, inappropriate, and what could be discussed at these meetings, because zelensky wanted to show them both a plan for victory, why do you think this is important, that is, volodymyr zelensky understands to implement the plan there will also be victories... and the next administration. it is very important for president zelensky to demonstrate the bilateral support of the united states. america 's ukrainian position, before that the meetings take place, that is, if the meeting takes place, then it is clear that the interlocutor of the president

of ukraine will be more or less interested in this meeting, and at the end of this meeting at least something more or less positive will be said. if he does not want to deal with him with the president of ukraine, the meeting simply will not take place. so, two-way support united states and democrats and republicans for ukraine is an important signal for the whole world. secondly, in this way, ukraine shows its impartiality. we are not playing for any candidate. we have no secret thoughts that this one is beneficial for us and this one is not. this is also a very good element, and it will have a positive effect on... the public of the united states, because there are many black, so to speak, channels that spread the idea

that in fact the whole of ukraine, the whole of president zelensky and so on, they all just put the eggs in one basket, namely on this candidate, and by this they complicate our mutual relations, well, actually , this is the goal and... it is correct, if it is implemented, it will be very good. will zelensky show the victory plan to the candidates? since he said that he will, he will definitely show it, we just don't know what it is, the victory plan, and therefore we don't know what he will show. you know, ideally, i would express my opinion, but it would be nice to do the same as we do with the message of the president of ukraine to... the president of ukraine speaks in the verkhovna rada, speaks somewhere there about an hour and a half, and these 20 or so pages of text are then distributed. in fact, the deputies

of the verkhovna rada receive a thick tome, in which 300 or 400 pages, where the theses, which are stated in the message and pronounced at the meeting of the verkhovna rada, are actually overgrown with appendices, figures, and facts. eh and eh analyze very deeply what was, what is and what will be if zelensky’s plan looked exactly like this, for those in the know a thick volume, and for the public, for a political, so to speak, gesture, a brief summary this ato. well the public in ukraine has not yet heard anything other than brief abstracts and main points of this plan. ah... okay, mr. andriy, but if such a meeting with trump takes place, are his team ready to resolve the war on ukraine's terms? i'll just remind you that a week ago, the

republican vice-presidential candidate jady vance announced what could be a peaceful, peaceful plan from trump, and it could be about, in particular, a demilitarized zone on the border of russia and ukraine. according to him , ukraine will retain its sovereignty, but part of the territories will be occupied, so kyiv is supposed to be, also kyiv is supposed to guarantee moskviny. and not to join nato, then do you think that his team and trump's team are ready to consider the ukrainian version of the development of events. not having, so to speak, a republican or a democrat bias, i can only express my surprise that a former combat officer plans to establish a demilitarized zone a thousand kilometers long, which... that's just the contact line, the front line today, it's that long, and somehow like this one put in the demilitarized zone some tens

of thousands, or maybe even hundreds of thousands of observers who will monitor this demilitarized zone, and i also wonder who would pay for such a grandiose project and how long it would take, and in the end the president of russia. federation, and putin said absolutely clearly and clearly that he will talk with ukraine only when the entire territory of the donetsk, luhansk, zaporizhzhya and kherson regions is in his hands. thus, where this demilitarized zone will lie, wherever it wants putin, or where the battles are going now. further , it is possible to go deeper into... this topic and not go into it. obviously, what the vice-presidential candidate said was intended for the ears of the average american. and

knows nothing about what the war in ukraine is and why it actually exists, and maybe these people will eat it, so to speak, well, but for those who are in the topic, give it to nonsense, well, hardly then under such conditions, they will find a compromise with volodymyr zelenskyi regarding his plan, i have the same question about kamala harris, in your opinion, she will be consistent with the position that today has the white house, as a democrat? i would not... agree with the fact that they are unlikely to find a compromise. what jay vance said doesn't mean he thinks it, and it doesn't mean former president trump thinks it either, it may just be playing to the public, so to speak, but there's no substance. as for kamala garis, she met with president zelensky more than once. thus

, they have some memory of... the same personal conversations and relationships, this makes it easier to understand what the parties will say to each other. if kamalagaris has approximately the same points, the same views on the situation in ukraine, on the role of russia and on the stakes that are being played now in this war, as president biden, then of course it will make it easier for her. and acceptance of president zelensky's proposal. mr. andrii, why do you think zelenskyy is going to show the victory plan only in the usa, because there are other countries that are territorially closer to ukraine or more determined to help in the war, such as great britain. in your opinion, such laziness will not spoil relations with other allies of ukraine? kyrstorm was recently with us. and there was also his

minister of defense. i do not rule out that they have already talked about some details here, i also do not rule out, i am not sure about it, but it would be good if tomorrow president zelenskyi would talk about this plan with zursuy fonden, who is coming to kyiv, and the head of the european commission , quite an influential person, and intelligent and far-sighted, and besides, she is a former minister. those of the federal republic of germany, this is also a lot, and it can play a role in supporting this plan, if if our american partners will consult with the europeans about how to treat this plan, in principle, in general, everything will go well, one by one, only one detail, so that the plan is good, so that the plan is

acceptable. and what do you think, will they show this plan to russia, because it is clear from the officials' statements that its purpose is to force russia to negotiate, but is russia ready to listen and negotiate? and what do you think, the general staff of the russian federation will show president zelensky the plan of its actions on front, i think it won't happen, i think we won't show them anything either, we have to show them taropets-2, taropets-3, taropets-2 - and so on, and then they will understand zelensky's plan, and no problem, continue, well, this is how you can show russia, today russia, what we want and what our intentions are, and the last question i have, mr. andrii, parallel to the victory plan is also the peace formula, to volodymyr zelenskyi, these two documents in your opinion, they will work in connection, because in november it is already expected

the second summit. peace, in which, by the way, russia will be expected to participate? er, the peace formula is a philosophical, er, political, philosophical-political statement of our position, the position of ukraine, it is correct, it is all- encompassing, and it is generally accepted by almost all of our partners, but... it is not denied with the exception of some points even by those who today are in an alliance with the russian federation, the victory plan is a more concrete, down-to-earth and demanding document that concerns only those who really helps