year, and this is how it looks now, i am not spending money at the moment, however, how to unite the country in the process of recovery in the project of the urban reconstruction and development program, every saturday at 18:30 for espresso. so, our broadcast continues, 17:30. minutes and 6 seconds on our clocks, oleksandr motyl, historian, political scientist, professor at edger university from the united states, appears just then. good health, mr. oleksandr, thank you for being with us in this difficult time, as usual for ukraine. thanks for the invite, as always. well, look, the first question is this about the press, first of all, because here is the ukrainian press, which writes: zelenskyy is going to the united states with a plan to win and...

will meet with biden, and with garis, and with trump. and i have a question, is this moment being discussed or not discussed, that this plan, if we make it public, then the kremlin knows about it, and is preparing for exactly those, for whatever we would like to he was preparing, it seems to me that something is known about it, in general the plan for the success of ukraine, someone... the united states, someone knows about this plan, someone is discussing this plan, whether please, mr. oleksandr, that’s the whole point, which means that there is some plan, but the details of the plan are not actually known to anyone, i read somewhere that there is talk of the supply of weapons, something about strengthening the ukrainian industrial, military-industrial complex and so on, but that's right away. sweet, so i

knew it, and you knew it, a month ago, a year ago, two years ago, and no one particularly called it a plan, because again, it was self -evident, so i guess, professor, bloomberg writes, that this plan, among other things, involves inviting ukraine to nato, you, for example, think it is likely that there will be some kind of agreement on inviting ukraine to nato, because... it is true, then it is really a victory plan to a certain extent, because if ukraine is in nato, then russia will definitely be much more careful. well, again, you see, ukraine is already talking about nato, we are talking, you are talking, we have all been talking about membership in nato for several years, so there is nothing particularly new here either. i have no doubt, i assume, or at least it is easy for me to imagine, that in my meetings and conversations...

zelensky will insist on that nato finally gave not only a yellow light, but even a green one, and not only a green one, but even an agreement on ukraine's accession to nato as soon as possible, but again there is nothing particularly new here, i can imagine that zelensky will insist on this, and biden, harris and others will say, well, of course, we support you, but with... you know, first of all, ukraine needs to do this or that, so the prospects, of course, are in nato, the future is in nato, but, but, but, and, but, and it will probably end there. but zelensky needs it, as do all ukrainians constantly talking about it, insisting that it is an extremely important element of any plan, any, any victory, that ukraine must be a member of nato. and now. after the course operation,

military, special military operation, uh, so i think that certain members of nato have become convinced that ukraine is serious, that this is not just a coincidence, that it managed itself with russia for those 2.5 years, and that it is, in principle , a powerful military force, and to have it as a member, to have it in nato, it is even possible, it is not only that it will be to... ukraine, but bad russia, but it might even be good for all other members. so ukraine has to do it, what it is doing, regardless of whether it will end with the hope, the hope that, well, this next week there will be a formal invitation, hardly, but it is necessary to press, speak, press and speak and repeat ad nauseum, so that the west understood that he had it. to do what he is obliged morally,

politically, strategically, militarily, for various different reasons, he has to do it, the end of the matter, period, but mr. professor, and... others, some experts say that this silence, if you say that nothing extraordinary is happening, yes, something like that is regular there, yes, the president of ukraine is going to america, it has happened more than once, but that this silence will still be until the elections president of the united states and hope for some radical changes, some acceleration, slowing down, some such events should not be done until the first decade. the month of november, well, you know, this is again, this is pure speculation on my part or on the other side or on the other side, because in principle from one side yes, because it seems that everyone are focused on the elections, and there is some ukraine

or russia, it is relatively far when it comes to winning or losing the elections and so on, it is clear, on the other hand, biden is not running. trump and harris, so they can express themselves however they want, and in the end they will not do any politics now, it will be done by biden, he is not a candidate, so he could, if he wanted to implement radical changes in ukraine tomorrow, in the american attitude towards ukraine, and i mean the positive changes that have taken place so far it seemed incredible, because it no longer depends on him whether he wins or loses. because he is not a candidate, so in principle he could do a lot of different things, or, which is also completely probable, he could stay on the same track that he has been on and is on, this is also possible, so as not to damage camila , but i do not exclude the fact that he can

make some relatively radical, relatively positive decisions for ukraine, there is still a month and a half before the... elections, and during that time he could do something dramatic to show: oh, look what we are, and in this way he would, by the way, have helped haris, because he would then leave in his legacy certain changes, certain policies, a certain attitude to ukraine, to russia, to the war, and she is not for it answers so she can't be cast as being too one or the other, she's just running for president so from a political... point of view it would even make some sense if they're as cynical as i am, well, it i'm not sure anymore, i think more cynical than you, i don't, i don't think politicians ever anywhere less cynical than ordinary professors or journalists, i think they are always more

cynical, one more question, professor, how much can we think about the reform of the united nations, well it is... every year such a problem arises in the month of september, the big the assembly and at this assembly they are starting to discuss, it is not perfect, something needs to be changed, now it is said that more members will waive the right to veto, exclude aggressors and so on, but i have the impression that nothing like that will happen, this, well, this or you really need to start the third one world war, because after all world wars something changes. in this global design, or wait a decade, someday, maybe something will change there, what do you say, mr. professor? well, i agree with you, so i do not foresee any special changes here, well , maybe something marginal, something

there, something like that, but to significantly change the structure of the un, for example, well, even, it means already for years, if not for decades it has been talked about changing the composition of the security council, because after all, it does not reflect, well, the situation that exists now, well, geopolitical, uh, france, england, well , are they really such great powers as some, like china or america, well, of course not, and if france and england have the right to be on the security government, why not nigeria, brazil, india, then what? and... but as you can see, even such discussions, which are simply about expanding the composition, for the sake of security, they have not yet led to anything, which is understandable, because it is in the interests of both russia and america, and china, and so on, leave the situation as it is

yes, it is convenient for everyone, everyone is already used to it, everyone knows what they can and cannot, here suddenly radically change everything, well, it would be difficult, it would not be... and very difficult, especially, you understand, because there is a veto, there will always be at least someone on the security council who will say no, so if america supports this or that plan, let's say it happens, then china will instantly say no, and vice versa when china will support, then america will say no, so here, you know, it's such, again, these are interesting discussions, they reflect the fact that there is discontent, but on the other hand, how to change it when the main players are happy with the situation as it is. it's hard for me to imagine, but i can, let's say, enter

the realm of complete fantasy. imagine that russia loses the war, but not only loses, but loses so madly, to the extent that putin's regime collapses, and that even the russian federation itself may disintegrate into some parts. then, in principle. there is a question of who then actually represents russia at the council security, when russia as such no longer exists, when there are them in russia, whether there are russian states and their non-russian states, and one can even imagine that in such circumstances china, which is still more or less sympathetic to russia, can think, why do i need such ballast? all the more so in the security council, and why not take as a partner, well, some

other country out there that is less and more obedient to the wishes of china, well, it sounds a little fantastic, but it’s not so fantastic anymore, i like it, professor, i think everything that you just said the collapse of russia, the political death of russia, you received a lot of applause in ukraine. thank you to oleksandr motyl, oleksandr motyl, historian, political scientist, professor of adge. university in the united states, thank you very much, now we will have an advertisement, and then we will return to ukraine to the people's deputy of ukraine, a member of the verkhovna rada committee on foreign policy, to ms. maria ionova. and now advertising. new season with your pair, order hit super warm and very comfortable boots alaska. style perfect fit, water repellent material and a feeling of warmth even in 30-degree frost,

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savings! in september, there are discounts on sudokrem, 15% in psyllanyk, bam and oskad pharmacies. due to good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresen, 17:48 minutes, as i promised, we are going to... europe, we will be accompanied by maria ionova, people's deputy of ukraine, member of the verkhovna rada committee on foreign affairs politicians, good health, mrs. maria, thank you for joining us, everyone was very pleased that 425 members of the european parliament said that let's allow ukraine to strike military targets in

to the russian federation, but as i understand it, it will not lead to anything, because it is such... the wishes of these 425 deputies, it is better than the 131 who were against, but still, this, it is just such a wish , whether it has any real load, please, well, to be honest, after all, the european parliament is one of the key institutions of the european union, and in any case, this is a traditional and very important resolution, because the european parliament is such a sincere ally of ukraine and more than once. the same in theirs in the resolutions notes and draws the attention of our partners and allies as regards assistance to ukraine, or indicates the same to ukraine that it is important for us to change or pay attention, and i think that this resolution, well, it is not general, it is simply thematic , she really

talks about the fact that she is focusing, let's say , on both financial and... and military issues, and therefore, yes, this appeal so that ukraine can strike on russian territories, this is such a political signal to the determined actions of those political leaders who still refrain from this, and that is why this basic principle, which is usually in the resolutions of the european parliament, is preserved, it is help for the victory of ukraine, and what concerns... military history, i mentioned, here is what concerns the financial one, that is, you and i have already heard from ursula fonderlein, who took such an important position and declared. it is in ukraine, visited ukraine, and therefore, it was just the day before the meeting, when the european parliament will listen and decide with all the european commissioners, what

loans will be repaid on account of frozen russian assets, that is, it is important because, you know, 35 billion euros of credit due to frozen assets, this is again... a signal to those countries that are afraid to make certain decisions, so i agree, mrs. maria, and the loan, we can roughly imagine what kind of interest we are talking about, well, it is a loan, i always think that a grant is very different from a loan, it is a gift in one case, and if it is a loan, it must be paid for, for which interest, well, look, but let's go to talk about the fact that even... if it is certainly not a grant, it is a loan, but precisely, we are not talking about the body of the loan itself, we are talking about what, namely, not about the interest, but

precisely we are talking about the body of the loan , which will be paid at the expense of those frozen assets, let's also not forget that certain countries, such as brussels, belgium, they also adopted their formula there, that is, what concerns freezing and confiscation, that is the most important thing. the second stage is the confiscation of the russian ones, about which you and i also know, in many countries of the european union really want it, but the fact that ursula funderlajen, well, let's say, took such an active position immediately, this will also be a test for those european commissioners who are candidates, that is, who will be heard in the european parliament, and the position of support for ukraine, and the context. it is also very important for members of the european parliament, because let's not forget that, by the way, the previous european parliament, i think, rejected two or three candidacies, and

ursula fondern is already setting such a tone freezing of the russian ones, i.e. the fact that such a loan is granted, and the fact that such an initiative, the fact that the call to strike on the territories of the russian federation, especially there goes... the emphasis is on taurus missiles, we know with you the position of germany in this context, and that is why i believe that this is such a political appeal, a good start, on which we all need to work, because unfortunately, well, not everything that was promised to ukraine, not everything that was promised to ukraine, after all, was received in the previous year and the year before last, and when we talk to you about taurus. and about unfortunately, well, let's be honest, about which everyone has already forgotten, this annual military aid in the amount of 0.25% of gdp, well, this is

also a good figure that cannot help but be happy, i would like it to be really all worked out already and on the front line, and the only thing, when we talk with you about the resolution, well, i don't know where, what was not heard asks, let's say, democracy in ukraine, and this resolution... it avoided and did not focus on the issues of ukraine's membership in the eu senate, because i have exactly the following question for you, ms. marino, just the next question, how do you in principle assess the progress of ukraine towards the european union and the european union towards ukraine, because it seems to me that this is a two-way street, there cannot be someone somewhere, but there must be some kind of reciprocity, how do you assess it, you you know, just these days, two days. we had deputies of the verkhovna rada training on how to conduct negotiations on clusters and how

everything is going on with the european union in general, just on the example of those countries that have passed, or which are still passing, and indeed it is currently ongoing in our country this is the first stage, this is a check for compliance with the eu case, and you and i know that the results of the ukraine eu session in brussels, that is, this is the second... screening, check, this is when we are talking about the legislation, the legislation of ukraine for compliance with the law the eu, well, it is a necessary and, in principle, a very common element of the opening negotiations, but such sessions take place before the opening of the relevant negotiating groups and chapters that are part of the so-called fundamentals cluster, this is exactly when we are talking to you about democracy, i.e. fundamentals. these are the basic principles of democracy, but again, it was about compliance with the legislation itself, and it was about, well, if it was, it is not just about individual cases, including

which ones. well, you and i know that they are sensitive for the ukrainian authorities, namely about that legislative regulation, and that's why it seems to me that they just didn't mention this resolution, but believe me, from our partners, well, questions-questions arise more and more often, eh -e on freedom of speech, on the subjectivity of the parliament, and i think that precisely these first sessions of the european parliament, the next ones... resolutions, they will mention what was already stated in some resolutions of the european parliament, and therefore it is very important , as you say, this two-way traffic, not to ignore when we are shown a red light, when we are shown a yellow light, signaling, you know, the midterms, it's very important not to ignore it and think that someone will forget there, still very seriously.

but to treat these issues, because all these , every cluster, every stage of negotiations, it is extremely important, and you know, no, nowhere they will let even a mouse pass by, this is precisely my next question, if you compare the road of estonia, the road of slovakia, the road of poland, to the european union, then it is unified in this road, it is the same... the same road that ukraine should follow, simply can some strengthened or some requirements be made for ukraine, or on the contrary, weakened requirements there because of the war, or is it all unified, please, mr. mykola, in fact, each case is really very individual, because first of all, we had a unique association agreement , there was no such agreement extended in others

countries like ukraine. this is good, because we have already fulfilled some, indeed a lot of obligations, and again, a long way has been covered, and the fact that we have our positive sides, we have our, let's say, in the economic, and economic components, where we also have to agree certain quotas with all countries, that is, in principle, what concerns compliance with eu law, we will not be unique, there are directives. there are standards, we have to adhere to them, and here is some kind of ours, some kind of indulgence in relation to ukraine it definitely won't happen, but what concerns the commercial and economic part, of course, the position of our negotiators in each group will be important here, and we will understand this or that country, what

arguments it has, what interests it has and. .. i will already take out, let's say, the percentage that will be beneficial for our country, but let me also mention what concerns ursula fondern, because i am happy that when we see you, well, i am really happy with that composition , which was now presented to the european commission, because you and i saw how ursula, you know, what we lack in ukraine, she bets on an efficient technocratic european... government, and you and i, you know, will not see any such in their government very famous political names who would, well, let's say this, would actually work for some kind of their own political image, rather than for the result, that is, you and i saw exactly the composition of the government, where we see that the bet goes precisely to teamwork and precisely on the result, this cannot help but please, and i would very much like to have, let's say so, in

ukraine... this experience was adopted, and it is also very important that from the first days you and i saw this, the duo of ursula and kailas and the former prime minister of estonia, and now she is still the vice-president of the high representative , works i'm sorry, please mrs. maria, i'm especially happy that hungary will be engaged in agriculture and let it go. of foreign policy was in touch with us, i will repeat what i repeat in each of my programs, that the military needs funds for drones and a charging station for the development of the third.