about poland, because he knows this country well, and in addition to all that he is a diplomat, he is also a historian, here again, here are these raised tones from, meanwhile, oleksandr zinchenko spoke of the prolyna tragedy, by the way , also wrote an interesting post this week about the fact that exactly 5 years ago, this week , volodymyr vyatrovych was dismissed from the post of head of the national institute of the institute of national memory, then it was said that precisely because of... it is not unlocked in any way the question of exhumation, whether it is actually blocked there of the polish military, victims of volyn massacres, and then they wrote that now everything will be unblocked, the authorities in kyiv are now very indifferent to all these historical issues and everything will be fine, nevertheless 5 years have passed, and in principle, as we see, not in petrovych the matter was clear, mr. andrii, they say that already... well, actually, what

is happening between us ukrainians and poles? well, actually, i think we need to understand each other better. and to understand what are the current needs of ukrainians and the needs of poles. they, of course, we cannot quarrel with poland, because poland for... remains and must remain our partner and to some extent our ally in this war, not only poland, but many others, but poland plays such a key role. obviously, all the statements that were made now, in some places, or the events that took place, sometimes they simply coincided in time, and the impression is that it is as if, well, relations have become quite strained, but of course, this is also in comparison. uh,

what, uh, well, uh, i worked in poland for more than eight years, and i can say that during this entire period there were also, uh, moments of such euphoria, friendship, there were tensions, occasional misunderstandings, reluctance to cooperate, and therefore, there will always not be such an even relationship between the two... countries, but nevertheless, we cannot allow that between ukraine and poland, especially at a time when we now have russian aggression and an external enemy, so that relations between ukraine and poland could deteriorate. therefore, it is necessary to understand each other, to listen, to listen and to find common approaches. to

solving those problems that could to satisfy both sides and at the same time not harm our defense capability. you know, for the poles, the question of the volyn tragedy or the volyn massacre, as they call it, is very important. poles know their history better than ukrainians, and maybe that's why poles don't understand what's wrong with ukrainians, because they tell them the volyn tragedy, ukrainians shrug their shoulders. ukrainians thought that for the poles... the issue of the volyn tragedy was important because there was a previous government, law and justice, they built on this and are building on this in principle campaign, but the government has changed, and the volyn tragedy still remains the number one issue, and they even say that ukrainians will not be able to join the eu if they do not help exhume the victims of the volyn tragedy, and again, it is the volyn tragedy on our way, how to explain to the poles... about the volyn tragedy,

what it causes in us, what emotions it evokes in us, and how to explain to ukrainians that for the poles , the volyn tragedy is a volyn tragedy? look, in fact, what concerns the volyn tragedy or volyn different, as they say in poland, or the confrontation between ukrainians and poles in volyn during the second world war, as some historians describe it, including the military confrontation, it needs to... additional study, and soon, probably, we will not find a common ground regarding the assessment of this past, and it is unlikely, or soon, that we will find such points of contact so that poles understand ukrainians and ukrainians understand poles, but nevertheless, in order to understand the volyn tragedy, it is necessary to reach the level of such... tolerance between peoples,

because those heroes who are are not accepted in ukraine in poland, and these actions and... and the heroes who are in poland are not perceived by ukrainians, but for sure, as you said, everyone expected that the government would change, and less attention would be paid to historical politics, and the question volhynia, here you need to make a certain correction, a certain correction, look, because it is a question that actually unites the entire polish society, and there is a complete consensus here. of all political forces and polish society, this is the question of exhumation and burial of the victims who died in volyn, and these polish families who did not bury, or cannot bury, or

cannot come to the graves and pray, lay flowers, light a candle, they will always... advocate for such an opportunity to have such an opportunity to bury their loved ones who died in a christian manner in accordance with existing traditions or who were killed in volyn, and they will always put pressure on their government in poland, whether it will be right-wing, centrist or liberal, and i think we should understand this, as we now understand those... our mothers, who lost their sons in the east of ukraine, at the front, and cannot return them bodies and bury their children with dignity and have the opportunity to visit them and honor their memory, the polish society

will also demand from its government that it put pressure on the ukrainian government so that they have such permission, such an opportunity , therefore, i think that one of the... steps that could help reduce the degree of tension between ukraine and poland could be the actual permission to conduct examination search works and a dignified burial of those remains of those victims of the volyn tragedy, who, which are not yet buried. and what exactly is the problem of granting this permission, why can't they solve it for so long? well, i really can't quite understand it, this ban. was introduced in 2018, well, there were many reasons, there were many pretexts, but i think that we should not refer to such agreements and some kind of bargaining that we will give permission, because we need to put such a table or

not such a table, i just think that the situation between ukraine and poland has changed so much, and polish society itself now expects from ukrainian society. such a human christian approach to what hurts them, because they believe that in 22 2022, when a large-scale war began, they acted in a christian way, no one appealed to polish society, to the polish people, to accept our citizens who were fleeing from russian tanks and russian missiles, and they simply came to the border, took those people who crossed the border, took them away. they fed me, gave me food, gave me clothes, and they supported me as much as they needed believe that they did it in a humane, christian way, and they have a certain expectation, that it hurts them very much, and their own cemation hurts, that we

will do the same approximately, uh, and until it happens , this tension will probably always exist, mr. andrii, in fact, for a long time we had the opinion that let's leave this issue to the historian, i have a feeling that this way... doesn't work, because then, nowadays, some bloggers, filmmakers, and it does the worst thing, look, here's another one the problem is here, of course, historians must be given the opportunity to work so that ukrainians themselves know what happened in volyn, i will tell you that i am also a historian, i graduated from the history department of the military university, which is true in soviet times, but i absolutely did not know what happened in volyn. i was not taught what happened in volyn. moreover, it was a distorted story, and i was told that upa gangs were operating in volyn, killing anyone they could get their hands on, in fact, they were, it was the ukrainian insurgent army, which fought for ukrainian statehood, that is why

historians need to work more and show the true history of ukraine, and here, of course, there is a wide field for historians to work, but in order to relieve... tension between societies, to relieve tension between states, it is possible to adopt a political solution and simply allow a humane pro-christian gesture, the burial of those victims who are still. not buried in a proper christian way, can ukraine, because it often happens like that, but the poles are also us, but once upon a time they treated us like this, in some of them are also imperial, well, many ukrainians say so, i have a friend who is a historian, and she says that the poles are the same imperials as the russians, mr. andriyu, or is this a statement, look, of course, that there are certain groups in poland people, and there is a certain contingent of people who... which belongs above all to ukrainians, and i can tell you that poles

are used to the fact that mainly ukrainians came to poland for low-paid jobs, to pick strawberries or to work in construction or cleaning the houses, and they treated the ukrainians in such a way that it was a little bit lower, lower nation, and now... when millions of highly qualified workers came to poland, many people with money who are ready to invest and invest in the polish economy, and by the way, many of our citizens who work and add and multiply are doing this polish gdp or gdp, and that's it. for poles this is a new phenomenon, it is difficult for them to get used to it, they have to

get used to the fact that ukrainians are the same , highly qualified, civilized, european, maybe even more creative and more more enthusiastic about work than the poles are now in the situation they are in now, that's why many poles can't stand it and... they look down on ukrainians a bit, but i think that this will change, because it can change, actually this situation, when we find ourselves in the same conditions with poland, in the same conditions, this means when we become members of the european union and nato, and then we will be equal partners, and then we will be counted as equal partners and neighbors, you know, i also hear such arguments, for example, but... the poles extended a helping hand to us not because they wanted to help us, but because they themselves

were afraid that russian tanks might reach them too. no, well, look, well, actually, i think that at that time i was the ambassador of ukraine in poland, when the large-scale russian aggression began, and in fact, the poles were not agitated by anyone, and they just came out in a humane way, in a brotherly way , - to a friend, went out and helped in... obviously, they are afraid of russian aggression, they understand better this russian imperialism, they are preparing for war, but nevertheless, then the help was actually sincere and from the heart. again, can we demand from the poles also some counter-steps, i mean some kind of historical justice, as for example, you remember, dmytro kuleba, who is no longer the minister of foreign affairs, mentioned to the poles, but at the same time such things as the vistula operation was not something isolated or exceptional after

the 45th year, it affected to one degree or another half of the countries then after, look, well, absolutely we must also exhibit our requirements and must discuss them, absolutely, there is no doubt here, i am not even talking about the vistula operation, because the vistula operation took place in slightly different conditions, and it was actually a crime.' regime already, but when we talk about the polish state, we absolutely need to investigate what poland's policy was, poland's brutal policy towards ukrainians in volyn before the second world war, and when poles destroyed ukrainian churches, schools did not allow ukrainians to pursue a career , the relationship was very tough and and and no, let's say, no civilized, but this must also be studied. and this must be shown, and some polish politicians, who are heroes for them, they did not act at all,

well, favorably, towards ukrainians, they did not treat ukrainians in the 1930s and early 1940s, well , when there was even an occupation, but they still had the opportunity to influence in volyn, and therefore i think that it is necessary to expose everything, it is necessary to show it and it is necessary to... realize, but, uh, that we really need to react to this, uh, situation that arises in societies, and which in... occurs at the moment and which can harm our unity and solidarity, as i have already said, and it is necessary to remove this tension, this should be a political decision that can, well, i think that 50 percent know the tension between ukraine and poland, is actually to allow the burial of poles in volyn, and i

think that this would be a good european gesture of a civilized european state. there is another moment here, we also mentioned it, but lesya even wrote a column about it, no, a large publication in the election newspaper, that poles sometimes think that for us the events of 1944 there on the 43rd in volyn, have the same kind of historical weight, shared as for them, but in fact, for the inhabitants of zakerzonny there and so on, for the whole of poland, and for us it is actually just an episode of some terrible, bloody ee... the threshing floor that ukraine fell into in the 20th century, the holodomor, mass repressions, ideas that are generally crazy with the resettlement of this western ukraine somewhere in siberia and so on, that is, they do not understand where we were, we want them to understand us, and this , as i said from the very beginning, we need to better understand each other, but we do well, there is, for example, the example of the germans and

the french, who somehow managed to completely, or as much as possible, eliminate... these centuries-old problems, how they did it, well, there is , there is for sure, look, i tell you, maybe, well, maybe this is a very simplified approach and a simplified explanation, but they did it because they found themselves in the same conditions, because they found themselves in an environment where european values ​​had, have an advantage, and i say again, when we, and once could it will be possible to think about historical research, search. work, and not think about where to get weapons and how to hide from russian attacks in bomb shelters, ugh, we need security and we need economic development and prosperity, if we are in the same conditions as the french, germans, poles, then of course it will be time to look more calmly at all these problems,

sometimes they say , that the poles, as well as the ukrainians, cherish such a complex a little , will suffer the most. peoples in europe, and this can also hinder us, you said that some of our heroes may not be perceived by poles, we know that they have a constant demand, for example, for desecralization, dehorization, for example, stepan bandera, i always tell them that imagine who he is, what a symbol of the struggle against whom, definitely not against the poles, on the other hand, what has recently led me to certain reflections, for example, is that when the russians capture ukrainian cities, they... the first thing they do is they start renaming all the streets, but there is a street, for example, with a historical name that they never rename, it's bohdan khmelnytskyi street, and i thought about how these narratives also overlapped with all of them insults, i don’t know there, i don’t hear levytskyi, about, for example, yarem vyshnevetskyi, but we still haven’t reflected on them either, we still don’t

treat ourselves somehow with a normal reflection, who bohdan khmelnytskyi really was for ukraine, who... that’s how it should be to study everything and i say again that there is also a difference between historical politics in poland and ukraine and in fact the knowledge of history in ukrainian among ukrainian society and among polish society, well, i will not hide it, i say, we, and i, too on his own for example, he said, we don't really know our history, or if we were taught it, then... it was distorted by soviet propaganda, poles know their history much better and respect it, and i think this is a good example for us too, to teach , to know your history. currently, poland is also preparing for the presidential elections, the position of the president in poland is not as important as it is in our country, because sometimes ukrainians also think the same way here, so

let duda tell them all there, this is how the election campaign is going ? and how important it is to us who will become president of poland? well, actually the company hasn't started yet, the election is next may, so far as far as i know there is only one official candidate, it's from the confederation party, the far right, which after all doesn't support ukraine, and uh, i think there will be candidates from the law and justice party, who was... will represent the opposition, the former opposition, now the ruling coalition, it's hard for me to say, but i think that in fact it will be until... this rather tough campaign, the election, the presidential election campaign, and well more we will definitely have to come back to it at the end of the year, when we will understand who

is running, and because depending on who will be the candidate, we will understand what accents and uh, and in the domestic and foreign policy of this or that candidate, but you absolutely rightly said that... the president certainly does not play such an important role, but nevertheless, if the president and the government are from the same political formation, then this is already a power, we have literally a couple of minutes left, i will allow myself to touch hot topic, again to return to of this scandal, we don't know if it happened or not, but about the fact that the witnesses, referring to those present, said at the time that during the meeting between sikorskyi and zelenskyi, little came to... and tsykorskyi was surprised by zelenskyi's style, in fact it's easy to believe, because i don't know, the economist already writes about this row and emotional style and so

on, that is, well, in principle, this is not a surprise for us, we know that ukrainian diplomacy to a certain extent, well, you can to say, it has degraded in recent years, that is, we have there, i don't know, minister taran, for example, we have this prosecutor general venediktova, who confused lithuania and latvia before her appointment, we have a very... strange ambassador in bulgaria, we do not have, for example, until now an ambassador in moldova, which is moving very quickly towards european integration, well in a word, this is another style, these are personal, this is personal, i don't know, hep, a gap between culture, diplomatic, or it can also harm relationships? well, look, first of all, of course, and i can say that we're also more emotional, because we're more worried, and during those...years of military action, well, we, well, not that we are tired, we have suffered, but poland and polish politicians do not

suffer from this, so they can afford to philosophize a little, and we, when forced, are presented under the wall that we do not have enough weapons to defend ukraine, and this is for us priority, and poland is thinking about whether they should shoot down missiles or not. will it harm, will it not harm, well, it is also sometimes difficult to understand, but although sikorsky himself is actually a supporter of shooting down russian missiles on the territory of ukraine, he still does not have his own government convinced, however, i think, to be frank, with all due respect to journalism and to journalists, to bring such a story to the public, about what the atmosphere was like at the negotiations, seems inappropriate to me, because it ... plays a little bit to help russia, because they see, oh, they were partners, they were allies, and now they are quarreling among themselves,

we are doing the right thing, we are going to drive a wedge between ukraine and poland and no one will help ukraine anymore, because it is not only about help from poland, but it is also about her help, sir. on the phone, we have something to do with the connection, unfortunately, andriy, you must have closed the microphone , we also have very little time left, thank you mr. andriy for this conversation, it was very necessary, andriy dashchytsia, diplomat, extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador and former extraordinary the plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine in poland was with us, and thank you for being with us, and andriy saichuk, the bokuliuk, worked for you. new season with your pair. order hit. super warm and very comfortable alaska style boots. perfect fit, water repellent

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