[000:00:28;00] president volodymyr zelenskyi went to the united states. ukraine's victory plan. what kind of document is this, what are its points and will zelenskyi's plan be able to bring peace closer? let's find out in today's edition of the bbc, i'm olga polomaryuk. possible ways to end the war began to be talked about in the first weeks of russia's full-scale invasion of ukraine. in march 2022, negotiations between representatives of ukraine and russia took place in istanbul. the parties even reached drafts of a framework agreement, but the matter did not progress further. then there were peace plans from china, indonesia, and the vatican

africa. countries had different options, official and non-public, and by the end of the first year of the full-scale war there were already a dozen of them. in november 2022, after the liberation of kherson, volodymyr zelensky presented a peace formula during an online speech at the g20 summit in indonesia. these were 10 points, where, in addition to the release of prisoners, the withdrawal of russian troops and the cessation of hostilities, there was talk of security, nuclear, food and energy. four of these ten points you. at this year's peace summit, held in switzerland and jointly the communiqué adopted there remains open for signature. well, now volodymyr zelenskyi talked about another document, the victory plan, which he is taking to the united states, that's what he said right on board the plane. we begin a visit to the united states, now pouring into pennsylvania, a special visit, then new york-washington, and it is this

fall that decides what will be yes... in this war together, we can strengthen our position as necessary for our victory, joint victory for a truly just peace. ukraine will present a plan to the united states victory, the first to see it fully will be the american president, of course, i will present the victory plan to all the leaders of the partner countries, who , like president biden, are world leaders. can become leaders of peace by helping us with the victory plan, so what kind of plan is it, what is known about it, looking ahead, i will say not much, the document was prepared in complete secrecy, but what is already known, the victory plan contains four points, it is military aid to ukraine , russia's political coercion, economic steps and diplomatic pressure on the aggressor. most of all we talk about this plan with my colleague, bbc correspondent oksana torop, with me in the studio, colleague, i

congratulate you, so... how was this plan prepared, what did you manage to find out? well, olya, you are right that this plan was prepared in full secrecy, and the ukrainian authorities maintain a certain intrigue, and even some experts say that this is based on the example of a currency exchange operation in order to impress, to create such an effect of unexpectedness, so there is a lot of some specifics are not yet known, what we know is about these four points, because it is actually about them. did not declare president volodymyr zelenskyi openly, at several public events, he said about it, an economic, diplomatic, political, military package for ukraine, for ukraine to win this war. ah, but we managed to find out certain specific points. first of all, we know for sure that there will be a specific package of military aid. ukraine will specify the weapons and military equipment that it

needs. now at the front, the second moment, ukraine wants to record the permission of its western partners to strike with long-range weapons in the depths of russia, as well as ukraine, wants guarantees that it will become a member of nato in the future, and by the way, some western publications indicate that there will be talk not only about nato, but also about the european union, we do not know this for sure yet, i hope that by the end of the week it will all become open, that we still know for sure that... there will be no question of freezing the conflict, this has already been openly stated in the president's office, representatives of zelenskyi's team, as some western publications wrote with reference to their sources that ukraine will agree to the fixation demarcation line on the front, and thus the conflict will be frozen, the president's office clearly stated that this is not true, it will not happen, and by the way, volodymyr zelenskyi himself and

the head of his office. yermak, who takes care of international issues, they have already clearly stated that there will be no minsk 3, that is, those agreements which were signed by the previous government of peter. and accordingly we understand that there will be absolutely no peace agreements in this regard. yes, well, that is clear, but we gave such a background, yes, what preceded it, and so it is interesting, and what is this victory plan different from zelenskyi's peace formula? this is actually a good question because many people are asking it when president zelenskyi started talking about this new initiative. we could, but we began to think, is this not the same peace formula, is it possible that it has somehow been changed, and now it is called that, yes, no, the president's office explained to us that this is a completely different

initiative, which is actually part of peace formulas, the peace formula is something more, long-term, yes, but the victory plan is this just a short-term initiative and actually. last week, volodymyr zelenskyy clearly explained what he was talking about, he would like this victory plan to be implemented, thanks to the western partners, from october to december, that is , we understand that we are talking about implementing it by the end of the year, the coming months, yes, yes, in this is actually the difference, that is, they are not different documents, but they complement each other. ugh, oksana, we will talk to you again, but the main question now is whether the united states will support this plan. we have already said that the document will be presented separately joe biden and presidential candidates kamala harris and donald trump. so the journalist of the ukrainian voice of america, ostap yarysh from washington, is joining the broadcast to communicate with us. my friend, congratulations, what

are they saying in the usa about zelenskyi's plans, what are the expectations from him? of course, everyone is waiting for volodymyr zelenskyi's visit here to washington after the general assembly in new york. it has been confirmed that we already know that on thursday volodymyr zelensky will meet with the american president joe biden, later separately with vice president kamela garrizi, is also expected to meet with donald trump also separately, specifically to present this victory plan to them. we spoke with representatives of the national security council of the united states, michael carpenter, who is responsible for europe, and he said that they have not yet seen the plan clearly, but they are looking forward to hearing from the ukrainian president what it contains, and volodymyr zelenskyi... this plan should be presented at a meeting with the american president, they say that they will comment after the fact, after seeing what is actually in that plan, but built up to coordinate the strategic goals and strategic partnership

between ukraine and the united states, further, yulia yarmolenko, my colleague actually spoke in an interview with michael carpenter, and when she asked in him, what are his goals, what is joe biden's vision for the last four months of his term, or will he deliver? in priority, and whether he wants to leave the actual legacy of ukraine's victory. michael carpender answered that, of course, the united states and joe biden in u the next four months will work and really put this assistance in one of the priorities of the foreign policy of the united states. i think we will hear more precisely on thursday based on the results of these meetings. there are also many other questions regarding the armed support of ukraine by the united states or even aid packages, so in addition to... discussions of the victory plan and the plan of action for the next months, whether any other statements will come through, in particular, the decision to launch strikes with long-range weapons on the territory of russia, all these things we expect to hear on thursday, we think there will definitely

be news, which is difficult to say yet, yes, well, speaking in general, it is interesting how the discussion of russia's war against ukraine is now affecting the election campaign in the usa, you know, in the last week. the country was often heard in the context of the story of another attempt to assassinate former president donald trump, in the media, even if this topic was covered in a balanced, impartial manner, the suspect in the attempt to assassinate donald trump and a supporter of ukraine were often heard in the same sentence, so one way or another the associative series took place in in this case too, but now, if we abstract from that event, if we look at it more generally, then they are definitely talking about... what are the goals and visions of both candidates kamela harris and donald trump regarding the support of ukraine, we have heard and asked them this question during the debate. it will be very interesting to hear the debates and views on this of the vice presidential candidates jaydee vance and tim walz. let me remind you that the debate is scheduled

for october 1 here in the united states, and we expect that the topic of foreign policy will be raised as well. previously from tim in voivodeship, we heard very different statements regarding support for ukraine. let's see which one... well , there is a little more than a month left before the election of the new president of the united states, and zelensky's visit falls precisely at the decisive stage of the election campaign, what are the chances of both candidates, what is happening with their ratings, and this is what the correspondent said about it cbs news from new york. former president donald trump says he's not sure he'll run in '28 if he doesn't make it back home in november, he said to reporters, if he pro... plays, it will be the end, the comment is significant because trump

appears to be making a fourth bid for the white house, and also because he rarely allows the possibility of a legitimate election loss. mind you, trump will be 82 in 2028, a year older than president biden is now. trump and many republicans criticized biden for staying in the race for so long. and more. a new cbs poll shows vice president kamala harris holding a narrow lead over. ex-president donald trump. she moved forward on two points in the undecided states, but nationally, she leads trump by four points. garis is also gaining popularity among voters for whom the economy is a deciding factor. in this segment, where trump had an advantage, she is now only six points behind. in general , the vice-president of the region, who have a positive attitude to the national economy and their personal financial situation. based on this data, garis has high hopes for support.

on wednesday, she will give a speech about it in the next four years. she is expected to touch on the issues of rising housing costs and food prices. former president donald trump has criticized his opponent for taking her time to release her economic policies, and it appears she is responding to his challenge. and let's not forget that she started her official campaign just a couple of weeks ago. compared to the ex-president, who was engaged in this immediately after the defeat in the last election. well, let's summarize everything with my colleague oksana torup in our studio. oksana, so what are the chances the fact that the usa still supports zelensky's plan before the elections, now? well , in fact, this is a question that no one knows the answer to, and the experts we talked to asked precisely the question about the forecast. they are lost, no one

will say for sure, because the election factor, it is actually very important, and of course, joe biden, analyzing this plan and making a decision, will first of all take into account what risks this decision may carry for the rating of the democratic candidate , so it is difficult to say, because the steps quite determined in this regard, and will the american president go for it. it is not known, on the other hand, experts point out that this may be a legacy of victory, a kind of biden, that is, if he manages to end the war in ukraine, then it will be a huge achievement, and he will simply go down in history, so it is important how will the ukrainian side be able to explain it, convey it and show that it is beneficial not only for ukraine, but also... for the american side

, this is precisely this initiative, and it is also interesting, why are they talking about this victory plan right now, well, this interesting a moment that the president's office doesn't talk about publicly, their official reason is to end this war as soon as possible, but unofficially we talked with representatives and our sources, so they say that actually the ukrainian side is worried. the fact that there are currently too many peaceful initiatives that are actually, to put it mildly, not beneficial in the conflict to the line, establishment of the demarcation line, non-aligned status are offered even by representatives of the candidate, one of the candidates for the presidency of the united states, and thus the ukrainian authorities want to work ahead of time in order to protect against such unfavorable plans for ukraine, we will see what the result will be, in the end, i think that it is possible... even at the end of this week we will already understand the situation, and

we will also definitely we will tell about it on our broadcast. well, oksana torob, a bbc correspondent, was a guest on our broadcast, and that's all for today, look for more stories as usual on our website bbc.ua, as well as on our social media pages. see you

tomorrow. new week, we're back to straight ether and now our main topic, which we announced, and which we talked about in the first part of our program, is actually the topic of mobilization, demobilization, if the first is regulated in our country, supposedly, then demobilization, yes, we have a problem with this. and we have what we have, but before that, let us remind you about our survey, it sounds as follows today: will the law on demobilization strengthen the ukrainian... army, well, again, a theoretical law, because it currently does not exist, but if such a law would be, we ask you if so 0800-211-381, if not - 0800 211 300 82. so, let's move on to this topic, khrystyna

will now give a little factual material, facts, why we talk about this in general, why this topic came up in general, why it is bubbling about. social networks, why are we even discussing this today, because actually in zma, in social networks , people, military personnel, journalists, ordinary citizens, families of military personnel are talking about this very much, but all this was preceded by one fact, one situation, which we are now talking about we will tell you. i, by the way, i don't quite agree with you that everyone is talking about it, it's a very niche story, and here i agree with my colleague pavel kazarin. a military serviceman, a fairly well-known ukrainian publicist, a journalist who said that this is a niche topic even for journalists, well, it sounded like a challenge, i think it is worth paying attention to even in our program, but really, let's start from the beginning, let's say so , it brewed for a long time, it

matured for a long time, some from the military environment wrote about the approach of a... similar situation, when the gap between the army and the rear will be felt, you know, like this rarefied air in the mountains, this is approximately what is happening now, in particular, they started talking about it because the serviceman serhiy hnezdilov, a man who has been in the defense forces for five years, that is, it is not only about the period of a large-scale invasion . a person who has a certain media influence and, i would say, image capital, declares that he is going to szz. szch is the arbitrary leaving of a unit before the establishment of clear terms of service, or before its 25th anniversary, having behind it 5 years of impeccable soldiering

the service, i emphasize, is impeccable. i hope that with this act it will be possible to convey to the authorities and society the need to talk and solve this situation. my position. remains unchanged, we have to create a mobilization queue from among all military-obliged ukrainians, and then demobilization will become a reality, an armed and trained nation cannot be defeated. hnezdilov says that if you remain in the army, and you are an infantryman there, then you are actually guilty of not being seriously injured and injured, although we, although we understand that people have in... concussions, but still return to the front and very often this is not a reason to pull them out of the front, so even for our medics, military, military environment, if you remained intact. more or less complete there, let's say so, and so on, then you will remain at the front forever, because

the state does not offer you any unconscious understanding, limits, how long it will continue, alina mykhaylova from ulf, vovki davinci, says, such an impression , as if we all lost at cards here, when i come to my native dnipro and see how the people are. they lead a life, i get the impression and feeling of injustice, i am retelling in my own words, the text is actually by alina mykhaylova, at the same time, there are two more examples that are spoken by active military personnel, media people, people who have an audience, that is, in particular, a journalist and a military serviceman pavlo kazarin noted in his post that the topic of demobilization actually transformed. unpopular for politicians, niche for journalists and undesirable

for most of their audience. let's also read now, here, in particular his post, in particular, he is talking about what i just voiced, instead, this whole discussion is reduced to how to properly prescribe the rules of economy booking for civilians in... it will introduce a price list for a civilian for the right not to wear a pixel, but at the same time , no one is clear is going to introduce prices for the military for the right to remove it, one more, that 's not all, one more post that appeared today, and i, in particular, put it in my box, and khrystyna and i probably read it all at once, because igor lutsenko, public. yak and military serviceman, you, by the way, are a member of the maidan, an ex-people's deputy, about whom you

also know a lot, heard a lot, he also stated that he is sure that there will be no mass demobilization after 36 months of war, since no replacement is being prepared, therefore, he proposes to give military personnel with extensive managerial experience in civilian life the opportunity to shape... the personnel policy of the armed forces of ukraine and establish relations with society, and you can also see this post on our screens now: we have 80% yesterday's civilians in the army, writes ihor lutsenko, they fight perfectly, so let them independently form their own army with their own rules and procedures, and let me remind you that all the innovations we are proud of now came about thanks to the grassroots. who did not act according to the old soviet military rules, well, these are the thoughts, this is the situation,

so to speak, maybe christina still has some kind of information array for us to convey, convey to the audience the essence of this problem, and i apologize for that, there is a problem, her again, there's no need to keep quiet about her we need to talk, and we need to talk about it comprehensively, perhaps there is still some information for... so that we can finally form this vision of ours and the vision of the audience, what should be done with it and, as they say, where to start. in fact, the picture will be incomplete if i do not mention the posts of a completely different nature, well, of a completely different nature, these are posts that the violation of human rights and the busification of the arbitrariness of the tsc in ukraine continue. posts, in particular, take place even among rostislav ademchuk's columnists,

by the way, i read it, and they asked a question, i see your post about svavil of the tsk, about the fact that they are mobilizing there, and really no one, probably not to be confused with the fact that the stories of krynge, as they say, take place, and i i have a lot myself. evidence of how things are not happening completely, sometimes even in a legal way, and on the other hand, we do not have a whole complete picture, and we cannot, or we can, i do not know, but it is necessary, for sure, that the authorities should already respond to this , we, can we talk about the fact that here is the trend, that all tsc and all representatives of tsc are violators human rights, everyone is doing everything wrong, they only pack in beads and so on, well, in general, as far as i'm concerned. i asked why you have a post about this, and a post about

the servicemen shouting about their own fatigue, about, you know, the tight corner in which they found themselves, about the fact that they are ready to turn around and are ready to commit an essentially criminal crime , just to be heard, they are doing it demonstratively, you don't have a post about it, to which mr. rostyslav replied that i can actually talk about what i see, i see what civil society says mostly about what tsc is doing, about how mobilization, busification, and so on take place. and so on, well , lawyers or the military should talk about that in the szch, which in principle, in my opinion, very much confirms the thesis of pavel kazarin, the topic of demobilization is very sensitive and has actually turned into a very unpopular one, very uncomfortable neither for the authorities nor for civilians population, because the topic of demobilization of active servicemen will mean that they

will need to be replaced by someone, and it would seem that we have. updated rules are already in place mobilization, it would seem that certain processes of a mobilization nature should already balance and somehow harmonize our personnel military composition, but whether this is actually happening remains an open question, and again the authors of recruiting companies, the ministry of defense, possibly representatives of the military leadership have to answer it , military and political leadership. one more piece of information, let's add one more thing: today there was an interview with the head of the odesa regional tsk yuriy puyk, and also such a sensational interview, which is being discussed today in social networks, in particular, mr. puiko stated that the cases of bossification of ukrainians have become much less, he stated that tccs act within

the limits of their rules, duties and powers and that now 90% the personnel of the tsk are military personnel who went through the war and came to us wounded, he also said that they have a sense of injustice embedded in their souls, well, there was also information that the mobilization of people from villages and cities is proceeding equally and so on and so forth similar, and that not everyone has a bad attitude towards tcc, on the contrary, there are good facts and good news, well, very... yes, in my opinion, this interview was perceived negatively among many, but it is clear why, because the reasons, as they say, are such outdated, there are those to which no one wants to give answers, when we talk about demobilization there, when we talk about the szch, yes,

here the question is even more likely not for lawyers, here the question is... rather for people's elected representatives, for law makers, to those who have to solve these issues, well, at least if we are talking about demobilization, you know, this is an issue that, unfortunately, is outdated, and this is an issue that, again, the government does not want to discuss, and this is an issue that, this is an issue that society also avoids, let's talk about it we talk, here he asks, here why some su, here why some society. this is a mobilization and the same taxis don't speak at all, i don't know, just neighbors and so on, well, that's right, why should they, and why should they talk about it, if it's not their condition, we just have a problem, we just have the country is that what we have society is divided into two parts, the part that touches the war, that experiences

this war, that lives this war, and this does not only apply to the serviceman. this concerns, i will list then, military personnel, volunteers, people who in general live with the issues of ukraine, ugh, that is, this is a socio-political, socially active part of the population, and the second part of the population, and we talked about this with you more than once, not only within the framework of, relatively speaking, mobilization or demobilization, we talked with you, it is generally about... the issue of relation to the country, to its position, to many sensitive issues in our country, so when, for example, khrystyna or someone else says, they don't want to talk about it, well, the taxi driver is conditional, not all, of course, not all, it won't happen, we don't we will say that everyone there is a taxi driver, we will not divide anyone, we will not

speak for anyone, as they say, and hang labels on anyone, we are talking about... the fact that there is