the results of this vote, i want to introduce today's guests of our studio, this is yevgenia kravchuk, people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people, deputy head of the parliamentary committee on humanitarian and information policy, head of the parye committee on culture, science, media and sports, mrs. yevhenia, i i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening. oleksiy kucherenko, people's deputy of ukraine from batkivshchyna, first deputy of the parliamentary committee on energy and... housing and communal services, mr. oleksiy, thank you for being with us, evening to you, thank you in return, and andriy osadchuk, people's deputy of ukraine from the voice, first deputy chairman of the parliamentary committee on law enforcement, mr. andriy, i'm glad to see you, thank you for being with us today , good evening, thank you for the invitation, since the whole world, well at least the part of the world that gathered at the un general assembly, is discussing or talking about our. the

victory plan, about the victory plan that volodymyr zelenskyi brought to the united states of america, we will also talk about this plan victory, although probably the american face or the british face of zelensky know more about this victory plan than we do, but let’s be in the trend of the world media, because the world media is presenting the victory plan in parts and claiming that it is a victory plan, maybe it is too... not a victory plan, but i hope that at least yevgenia kravchuk should know, at least in outline , zelenskyi’s victory plan, because the representatives of the opposition parties, they they may not even know what zelensky took to the united states america. ms. yevgenia, maybe you can tell us what the victory plan consists of, and how it differs most importantly from the peace formula? we always had blitzes in the beginning, i still. i will answer blitz, i am satisfied

with gurmo's work, and we don't know much about what gurmo does, and we will find out after the war, maybe we will see films about it, but it is worth noting, because our good mood in the morning when we read the news is very often provides gourmet. now to your question, well, we understand very well what the necessary elements are for victory. so we live in to ukraine, we understand that these are weapons, that these are security guarantees, and security guarantees better than nato are not obvious, or rather a very clear commitment from partners that they will not sit and think for a long time, but will have a ready plan if russia someday he will want to attack ukraine again, and this is not necessarily an acceleration of aid, because well... it is stated

further in the topic about the statement of the british foreign minister, what he said that if if we do not significantly increase the quantitative aid to ukraine, then we can do it in the 25th and 26th years spend in the war, and we can really only sincerely wish volodymyr zelenskyi, the president of ukraine, success in convincing partners to increase substantial aid. thank you, mrs. yevgenia, well, gentlemen, because yevgenia also answered our survey, which we conduct among viewers and tv viewers, and i will also ask you about the work of gurmo, whether you are satisfied or not, because, well , why are we asking, because these rumors constant, that there is bakanova, not bakanova anymore, bakanov caught my tongue, where, by the way, is bakanov, this also a question, they want to remove budanov, that they removed two of his deputies. that is,

there is a constant kind of informational noise going around, although it probably shouldn’t be like that during the war, mr. oleksii, well, i’m probably still more than satisfied, because in fact, as far as i’m concerned, according to my understanding of the standards of war, strategies and so on further, it is generally desirable for the population not to know that such a gur exists, you understand, well, it performs such a specific function that it is nonsense in general, when they know something about it, read something there some there, well, well, information, you understand, and this probably caused, by the way, such negativity as, well, that is being spread by the media now, a possible negativity, or there elimination, as you say, or personnel rotation, the same budanova, because apparently, well, no one likes competition, well, as for me, it is necessary to work effectively in this situation, but i do not accept unnecessary pr, neither from the military, nor from ours.

heads of state-owned enterprises, ministers, prime ministers and so on and the like, this pr is superfluous, it is not justified by anything, but for some reason it seems to me that gur still fulfills his mission. quite effectively, and what you are talking about, that in the morning we wake up and hear good news, somewhere from behind the fence and the band is involved, it still adds confidence to ukrainians that we have a plan that helps us and that the plan also helps us adds, yes, yes, what, what, that we have such a structure, which, i don't know if the comparison with the israeli mossad is correct, which, which always comes, will pack and do... his work on the territory of the enemy, mr. andriy, you know, to me in fact, i don’t really like the 31st month of the great invasion, when many fundamental issues of waging war in our country are discussed in the format of public hearings or public discussion with live broadcast, well, i

support oleksiy kucherenko here, because , in general, no one owes anything in particular to gur to know, and you actually ask the audience a question, the answer to which they... that they don't know, bogur doesn't report, the information that spreads about their activities may not be entirely true, because all the information that issued during a major war should actually be aimed at disinforming the enemy, because this is not a comment on a football match in an online broadcast, but that i can definitely confirm that the ukrainian special services are much stronger than perhaps anyone in europe or the world thinks and ... they do really cool work even before the great war, they did it quite well, and during the great war, but here again evgenia is right, let's all wait and get to our victory and then maybe maybe through for some time we will find out the details and then we will be able to

assess how satisfied or not we are with the work of the group of other special services, well, we will not wait for the end of the war, we are just intermediate results as well. we will make it public at the end of the program, because we are interested in what people think in general, if in the first part of the program almost 70% of the respondents said that they were satisfied with the work of the gourmet, well, we cannot tell them to be dissatisfied, but they listened news from budanov, so we are satisfied and good, here the question is yes, in the future general budanov and his excessive media presence, what to do with it, actually zelenskyi's team. this is also a big challenge, well, well, we have already seen one general whose rating was high enough, who is now the ambassador to great

britain . he confirmed to the council on international relations in new york that inviting ukraine to nato is part of the president's victory plan. and zelensky. let's listen to what yarmak said. we must have advantage on the battlefield to force putin to cease hostilities. we are trying very hard. without ships, we destroyed the black sea fleet. having no air superiority, we stopped the russian advance in most directions, including kharkov. without fear, we returned the war to russia. ukraine's invitation to nato is part of the victory plan. mr. oleksiy, if ukraine does not receive an invitation from the north atlantic alliance, and this is one of the points of our victory and victory plan, does this mean that this victory plan may not be

implemented? oh, you are asking such a question immediately, you know, well, you found, as an analyst, mr. serhiy, in my opinion, this is the key, yes, such a question, because we are... convinced that there will be an invitation, i personally, excuse me, well, for some reason i am not very convinced, in me my overall vision of prospects in nato, operational ones, i am not too optimistic here, to be honest, on, well, unfortunately, yes, i am more of a realist, but really, this will be such a contradiction, yes, we expect that by the end of the year we will already be invited and, relatively speaking, they will take us under... a sosolka, but for some reason it seems to me that we are not really there expect and do not really want to take under the umbrella, because the countries, well, the leaders of nato, understand what the risks are for them, electoral risks, sorry, we understand

how electoral, the electoral process today in the states, in the same ones, how weighty it is, and that's why i'm not an optimist here, i'm... more analyzing that we have to start from the fact that this point of the plan will not happen, and that's how efficient and effective this will be then plan, that's the key. i have a question, thank you, mr. oleksiy, mr. andriy, isn't this a bar the north atlantic alliance, the high bar that is being set in this victory plan, and the further we go, we lower the degree, so to speak, of our desires and say, well, we 're not going to be in the north atlantic alliance any time soon, but give us more weapons , give more long-range weapons, maybe this is what this high bar actually is, which andriy yermak is talking about, well, first of all, sergey, we are again

we discuss what we don't know, because yermak said one thesis, someone else, that's how it is no one saw the so-called plan in sight, that is, we are discussing western partners, because after all, the president came with a plan to win, everyone wants to win, probably, but something tells me that with such experienced guys as joe biden and the rest of the campaign , such tricks probably won't work very well. so once again, the more zelenskyy brings from his trip, the better, despite the fact that i think he is doing all this for a reason these days, because i think bankova is still learning from her mistakes, if you remember , a year ago those these days, plus or minus, volodymyr zelenskyi also spoke in the un security council at the un general assembly, but then they absolutely did not... give special importance and special attention to the issue of approving the

aid package to ukraine, because no one doubted that it would be voted on there in the near future weeks, and then, as we all know, ukraine paid too dearly for the fact that there was a delay of almost 6-7 months. now , in fact, the visit to the un general assembly has become secondary, the issue of promoting the so-called plan is put first victory, but once again it is a visit. for money and for weapons and for resources and for trying to convince joe biden to change the course of history after all, he 's used that rhetoric a lot over the last 30 months, but he's hardly done anything to make it happen. i think zelenskyi and yarmak will try to convince him as much as possible, change his mind and make some important decisions in the few months joe biden has left in office. zelensky began to use the rhetoric of many experts, who have been using it for the last year and a half or two

year that time is playing against us, and he is absolutely right, we don't have much time, and if the american partners and other key allies agree to give it to us, then of course it will be very cool, but again , i have expectations for nato, well not that pessimistic, just give me another 30 seconds, i'll take my time if i agree to the request. of ukraine in nato, this means agreeing to implement the fifth article regarding ukraine. and how will they implement it, that is, fight side by side with ukraine, if they don't even want to give it to us the permission to use long-range weapons, again, it is not known in what quantity, that is, how many of those missiles we have in general, it is also unclear, that is, there are no indicators that indicate that we will be offered to join nato in the near future. thank you, thank you. mr. andrii, ms. yevgenia, here is a plan for victory, it assumes that there must also be a plan

for defeat, if for ukraine the plan for ukraine is a plan for victory, then for russia, accordingly, a plan for defeat, and obviously, with this plan for defeat, if he is nearby with a plan to win, then he is not is very convenient for our western partners, because judging by the dynamics of how they are trying to transfer weapons to us and what weapons. and undecided in its decision about strikes on russian territory with western weapons, it means that, well , in fact, putin's regime and russia are now on such protection from our western partners, can it be successful and can there be a plan for victory without a plan for defeat, which should our large cohort of our western partners adopt? this is a very important question, and it is probably much broader, much broader than that

our discussion that was before that, but i would like to support the colleagues who spoke, and here we are, i think that there are no differences in our desire for success for ukraine and success for our state, and especially andriy, who obviously participated a lot in certain corporate negotiations. he knows that the bar should always be the highest, in any case membership in nato is written in our constitution, so this is an absolutely clear political position, which, well... from which, i think, any politician who, well, really ukrainian, will not back down, but is it possible to solve at once, well, yes, this is already an open question, and here is the fifth article, and so on, although you know, a lot of nato members, well, at least in such private conversations, parliamentarians from nato member countries,

especially those who are closer to russia, they are no longer so sure about the fifth article, because they say, well, these are... consultations, that may take time, and such small countries as the baltic countries, well, they will be captured much faster than these consultations, that's why this umbrella should have really certain such commitments, yes, very clear commitments to military support and support, by the way, of the military potential and the production of weapons in ukraine, i think that this will be one of our topics that we... talk about, but it is obvious that we will become such a big israel in the matter of miltek, military technologies, i.e. all technologies related to the production of weapons. by the way, just the case of israel, it is interesting, they do not have membership in nato, but they have an annual term in the budget of the united

states, and this money is annually allocated for arming israel and not. are discussed as they are discussed every time when it comes to ukraine, so actually there are different options, but of course, for the state, for us, for our future, it is better to have this, well, clear commitment to nato, again, i am not saying that it will happen tomorrow, but it should be a clear guideline that it is not just important for us, it is for us, well, vitally important, and... also a guarantee of non-repetition, because no one wants to have a huge conflict in the heart again in 10 years europe, well at least we, we want to think about it, yes, that the partners do not want, including due to electoral issues. you have already mentioned what the

british foreign secretary, david lammy, said, that the war could go on for 25. the 26th year, i will quote mr. lammy, is exactly what he is saying, a critical time for courage, patience and resilience from on behalf of the allies who support ukraine, i, as the minister of foreign affairs, will certainly not comment on the details of the operation, because it can only be, well, on in mind, about delivering strikes on russian territory federation, it can only help. putin, but there is a real-time discussion between the allies about how we can support ukraine ahead of winter, and the main obvious question is how ukraine can support itself in the current situation and, in particular, regarding the deployment of weapons production, because

lemy is talking about the fact that the war will continue there at least until the 26th year, but this... is not yet certain and maybe even more, there is information that now every second ammunition on the front is of ukrainian production, about it defense minister rustam umyerov said that if in the 23rd year the ukrainian share of ammunition was 18%, then in the 24th year it was 41%. he says that ukraine has increased its long-range capabilities several times in... in 2024 , the ministry of defense alone contracted drones for over uah 21 billion and ammunition for them for another uah 9 billion. in total, more than 1 million drones were purchased. in addition, ukraine was the first in the world to introduce drone swarm technology. in the last year alone, it was possible to destroy or damage

more than 200 targets on the territory of the enemy. well, actually it is about the formation of a large economy. which will work for the defense and security of ukraine. mr. oleksii, do you see the general strategy of how our economy should go on the war rails, because if lemy says that the war can continue in the 26th year, it means that the next budget of 2025 should be passed , including taking into account those needs that are necessary for national security and defense. thank you, before answering your question, i still have to answer a little, because here i was told that i don't know the constitution well about nato, so i would like to dear ms. yevgenia and everyone. to remind ukrainians that there are many other things in our constitution, and that this is a social country, ukraine, about nadro, which belongs to the people, and about the market economy,

field committee, law enforcement system, competition and so on and so on, so you know , let's not try to convince each other, because you already told us that tomorrow we will join the european union, tomorrow we will join, and you see, recently mrs. materna... the ambassador of the european union in ukraine, said that, well, unfortunately, not before the 30th year, and i think, if you look at my quotes, it is somewhere until the end of the deck, so i lead to this, i am a realist, unlike many cosmonauts , yes, who are in power today, well, not today, they came to power in the 19th year, and i proceed from reality, yes, and life will show which of us is right, and therefore returning to your question, sir serhiy, and of course, what are we discussing? we are ending the 24th year, the 25th is on the nose, yes, we have 2.5, soon it will be 3 years of full-scale war, and we are now

we are discussing how it was necessary to transfer the economy to the war year, yes, and i apologize, it was not necessary to do it now, it was then to really prepare for the war, and not to show each other’s backs, if that’s the case in the grand scheme of things, you understand, that’s why the fact that during the war... there was a certain mobilization of intellectual potential, financial resources, and it was not spared there, agree, very serious money was poured into the defense industry system, and not everything there was so effective, but nevertheless, i hope, there are really positive changes there took place, and you know, i was very optimistic, but i literally today had such an interesting interview with aksakav, with a person very... academician pavlovich horbulin, who, by the way, directly, directly participated during all the years of independence and

the last years, precisely in order for this defense of ours to work, and you know, this is volodymyr pavlovich, i listened to him, his arguments, his confidence that after all after all, technological ukraine is able to make a living at the expense of the intellectual and professional potential, and for me it was... well , it was much more, well, his statements inspire more confidence than the statements of certain representatives of the authorities, well, so today i have built trust in the authorities and in their statements, i think, not only in me one thing, but let's hope that our defense industry is really gaining momentum, it really needs to be supported financially, because it is a very expensive pleasure, by the way, you saw today president zelenskyi, where... he put the plant for the production of 155 mm shells that i really wish they were we would have produced them there a long time ago, but this

interest is probably not accidental, just like interests in any other weaponry, so here we all have to concentrate and unite our efforts to ensure that there are truly ukrainian missiles, which horbulin says that these should be ukrainian missiles with an appropriate range, and then we will feel ourselves. confident, and by the way, he quotes mr. zaluzhnyi, who stated this two years ago, right? well, by the way, you mentioned, mr. oleksiy, about zelenskyi’s visit to this plant, there was such a big stretch there against the background of which the president signed these shells that are produced, so on this banner it was written that victory on the battlefield begins at the factory, well, we see yes, it is now eh... a wonderful slogan, which in principle should be motivating, including for the ukrainian side for the ukrainian authorities. mr. andriy,

how fast can our economy go and whether it is necessary to do it now, i.e., to transfer the economy to military rails, and whether it will give a boost to the economy, because these are new jobs, well, in terms of... security, the question is, of course, shelling by russians with long-range weapons and drones, the issue here is the safety of these enterprises, which will produce and make the weapons that we are asking so much in the west, and some of these weapons could be produced in our country. sergey, you know, any discussion is effective when all parties equally correctly understand the meaning of the words. and we, it seems, do not all understand the meaning of words very well on the 31st month of the great invasion. mobilization, because both at the level of the media and at the level of ordinary citizens, i have the impression that under the word mobilization, of course, is enlistment in the army, which is absolutely not the case, because the term... is not

clearly defined in the laws, and when the word mobilization is used at the state level, when the president signs a decree on mobilization, and the verkhovna rada approves it and does it dozens of times already, because we have continuous mobilization, i will remind you that the law states that mobilization is a set of measures carried out with the aim of planned transfer of the national economy, activities of state bodies authorities, other state bodies, local bodies self-government, enterprise basis of organization. on functioning in the conditions of a particularly special period, that is, the entire meaning of the word and the term mobilization, which is laid down in the presidential decree from february 24, in the transfer of the entire country to work in the regime of a special state, that is, it should already have happened from february 24, 22, therefore now we have to ask the question, should we transfer the country, and ask the question, how did we do it,

and if we didn't do it, then... why, what questions should be asked, and the real situation with the production of weapons, again, this is our z your favorite urge to discuss state secrets is there, it is probably better than anyone could have imagined, but it is absolutely obvious that ukrainian production capacity will not be enough to cover the real needs of the front, especially if we in the coming months, we will repeat last year's trajectory. when aid from the united states will be reduced, so now an event will be of great importance, we did not mention it today, it seems that on october 12, joe biden will have a farewell visit to the post of president to germany, and as far as i am informed, the key leaders of great britain, france, at least, will be invited there, and they will meet there, i think, most likely, to decide the fate of aid to

ukraine. it will probably be decided there whether zelenskyi's so-called victory plan will be supported and in general what our prospects are for the coming years. , no other numbers does not know, and if someone wants to discuss some other numbers, then it will probably not be confirmed by anything. thank you sir. andrii, probably with the fact that spending on the army, on defense, and related changes in tax legislation will increase, because on the 15th, as i understand it, a law must be passed by october 15th, which will probably begin to apply retroactively from october 1st. well, at least that's what your colleague yaroslav zheliznyak said, i'll just remind our viewers that the government bill already includes tax increases. and this is

an increase in the military levy from 1.5% to 5%, increase in taxes on the first and second groups of fops, gas station advance payments, 1% on all forms of fops of the third group, 25% of profit for the financial institutions, monthly reporting of personal income tax, 50% tax on bank profits in the 24th year, ms. yevgenia, is this means that if... we will develop this war economy and mobilization for this war economy, that this is not the last increase in taxes and it is obvious we are in for yet another tax increase, because it is clear that we cannot live in debt all the time, or if we live in debt, we have to understand how we will simply cover our expenses, which are within the country, well, i am in...