now there is an open flow of information, there is an open internet, of course it is impossible to subscribe to some so-called extremist extremist channels in telegram or youtube, but people already have the ability to install vpns or something like that, anonymizers that allow you to easily to receive this information as i did, as it is, secondly, youth is such a special state of time in your life, when you are a non-conformist, and if you are simply driven to these red and green rags of lukashenko, then it will be in your eyes to be born resistance inside of a person, first of all, first of all, and i believe that the more they put pressure on these young people, the more they try to put some kind of... propaganda into their heads,

the less support this propaganda will have among young people , and this is very rightly and carefully prevented by the fact that that generation will no longer live under lukashenko, because biology simply works, time works, that's how it is, thank you, mr. andrii, andriy stryzhak, belarusian rights activist, volunteer and public activist about affairs of belarus, and that's all we have with roman eter for today ends, we will return tomorrow, but you just... stay on our tv channel, because colleagues have prepared a lot of interesting information, now after a short break, see the material, an interview about zelensky's visit to the united states of america with a scandalous flavor, especially due to the absence at the arms factory as part of the republican delegation. with what the president will return to ukraine, the presenter yuriy fizar and the executive director of the institute of transformation of northern eurasia volodymyr spoke about it.

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and order a reliable and convenient tool strong saws. sale! hurry up to buy while the product is available. reduced the price as much as possible. powerful from only uah 699, it is profitable to buy right now, call me, congratulations, my name is yuriy fizar, this is an espresso interview, and today it is about the visit of the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyi to the united states of america, quite a long visit, he arrived there on sunday . is still there, meeting with the 45th president of the united states at this very moment of the united states by donald trump. so, who did he meet with, what did he talk about, and what are the pros, and possibly cons, of this visit. i will talk about this and other things with my guest today, volodymyr horbach,

executive director of the institute for the transformation of northern eurasia. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. good day, glory to the heroes. and mr. volodymyr, today i correctly read northern eurasia, specifically eurasia. not korea, but eurasia, eurasia, because last time i introduced mr. volodymyr, the director of the institute for the transformation of the northern europe, here it is completely different, namely eurasia, because we need to include the transformation of russia as well, maybe someday we will transform it, but today is not about that, today, as i said, we are about the visit of volodymyr zelensky to north america, eventually to the united states america before his meeting, mr. volodymyr, we will discuss all the nuances in more detail during the conversation. it's friday, so you might think that

he liked the visit and extended his stay in the united states for one more day, sunday evening, now it will soon be evening but, but no, not this time, the visit became scandalous. factor due to the very interaction, communication with ex-president trump and his team, yes, the so-called trumpists, including with the speaker of the lower house, the house of representatives mike johnson, that gave scandal because of this visit because of the election struggle, let's say , the internal political struggle in the united states states, but the final results will be summed up, i think, when the president returns home. and those decisions that he will make already at home, so to speak, in that included in the internal personnel policy of ukraine. we'll see, we're waiting for his return, but now let's start with, well, not the main thing, but one of the main things: volodymyr zelenskyi

planned and met with the current president of the united states of america, joe biden, and with the presidential candidate, kamela garis, among those i... watched these interviews, then reread the transcripts, and from what i saw, i thought that they were, well, the announcement was very serious and pathetic. of all what happened, it seems to me that these were some, unfortunately, it seems to me, meetings for the sake of meetings, nothing new, well, since we were not participants in either these or previous meetings, it is unlikely that we can assess what was new that was said in closed part, whether or not new, we can guess and even discuss it, but what i agree with, what you say, is ... the so-called or the same victory plan that has been widely announced, and i would even so,

it was promoted in the media specifically to focus, attract attention to it, it formed certain expectations, expectations both in ukrainian society and among our foreign partners, including americans in the united states, they expected that zelensky's victory plan is what they usually understand by the word... plan, yes, we make a list of actions one, two, three, four, and from these actions, well, a single strategy, a common goal emerges, and that it is really something new, but by and large, the comments of the western press boil down to the fact that this is all this so-called plan , it does n't change any strategy, it doesn't exist in essence something new, a new plan, it's just new requests or demands or insistence to increase aid to ukraine. first of all , military and security assistance, well, there are various

weapons, types, methods and so on, striking deep into russian territory, all this is correct, this is what we need, not just here and now, but also yesterday and we needed it the day before yesterday, but we lacked it, here, but there are others, there are other nuances, in addition to, in addition to this... the list of equipment, weapons and funds that we need for victory, there are also economic, well, a direction or section, some kind of diplomatic assistance, and also political, which is typical, yes military, economic, political and diplomatic, four, so to speak, main lines or directions, if it gave the impression that some comprehensive measures there should be a comprehensive plan, but there seems to be no clear list of all other... issues, except for the military, what we need, what, what we can do, well i still,

it seems to me that the military does not have a clear list list, well, from what we know, no, what a request that we need this, that, that, this is, they even say, well, our partners talk about this, that, and again there is a list, but there is no list, what we will do in order for it, well, i think that there are military personnel here, there are military aspects that the military personnel know what to do and do not need to be prompted or interfered with. oh, but what i would like to pay attention to, that i was interested in what is the least discussed, this is the political part, yes, which, which, which political aspects can appear in this plan, and it is obvious that this what president zelenskyi and the ukrainian side should offer to our partners, well, not that in exchange for weapons and money, but well, at least in accompanying this process from their side, er... and a clear description of what exactly it is, well somewhere it is mentioned, well, political reforms, for example,

but what kind of political reforms, are these elections, are they changes to some general democratic legislation, are they changes to the constitution, in the end, yes, which will allow something to be flexible in something else or on the contrary, do not give in unfortunately, we do not know this yet, maybe in such a way, i would say so. not to the public part of the negotiations, which we do not know about from official reports, maybe there will be comments, but not unofficial reports, maybe the ukrainian side offered the biden administration some steps to meet their wishes, and these wishes were voiced before and will continue and were not finally satisfied , this is the topic of the fight against corruption, and related personnel issues, which should be resolved. to decide to have tighter and more trusting relations with the administration of joseph biden all this time, which were not

resolved, well, i want to remind you that on the eve of the visit of state secretary blinkin to kyiv in early september, one of the deputy heads of the president's office, mr. shurman, resigned as if on his own, and this in in principle , it fit into the expectations of our partners, and there is another deputy to the head of the office. with the surname tatarov, who is also criticized by many, many journalists and public figures, and i understand that also by foreign diplomats, well, not publicly, but, but they make it clear that this is... a personnel problem, including a problem in ukrainian-american relations, well, maybe this is a decision, whether similar decisions will be adopted, whether they were adopted, whether something like that was promised, do something like that in order to, well, if not get full support there for the victory plan, then at least the decisions that were announced yesterday about providing ukraine with financial support there,

in the amount of almost 8 billion dollars, it could be. an additional argument for a positive decision, let's say so, but again after all, we will see all this only after president zelenskyi returns to kyiv, and we will observe his decisions, especially personnel decisions, they may not be immediately, they may not be on the second day, not on the third day, but some reforms in the government and in the president's office, most importantly, should take place, well, we'll see, we'll wait for the president... to return, but look, here's one more thing before that, to be honest, this is exactly the topic i planned to discuss with you a little later, but since you started talking about it, i'll start from the main point, let's let's talk about one more thing, of course, these conversations, which we don't know about, they took place on the sidelines, what was said on camera, it's just general, in

general terms, both president joe biden and the candidate for president kamela garis that the united states of america will always be with ukraine until the victorious end and will help ukraine, that is, nothing new, but on september 21, volodymyr zelenskyy told journalists that there was already an online meeting with the russians regarding future negotiations. what do you think, that's it everything, could there have been any pressure from the united states of america regarding this, and how is it possible, is it all connected somehow, well, i am familiar with this media report. what about this statement, and i know that this kind of negotiations, even yes, are not direct, as they say now, but online somewhere through the internet, they are still conducted through an intermediary, that is , everyone in the conference is present, but everyone turns to an intermediary , and the mediator communicates alternately with both parties, both in

ukrainian and in russian, it is important here to know what the topic of these negotiations was, because the fact that such negotiations... are conducted, for example, on the topic of the release of prisoners or hostages or civilians who are illegally obtained somewhere on the russian side, all this takes place through intermediaries, we have heard prophetic mediators, about qatar, we have heard about the united arab emirates, but for the united states to act as a mediator in the ukrainian-russian conflict, we have never heard of this, i think that this has not yet happened, at least according to the official position of the white house and state department leaves the fact that ukraine must decide for itself what and how, how to conduct negotiations, when to conduct negotiations, under what conditions, that is, here so far the united states, well, in this way, no very harsh or decisive pressure was put on the ukrainian side, well, at least we nothing is known about this, most likely it is so, so it is, but some informal influences, advice, there,

wishes, formulating one's expectations, this... maybe it sounds in the public space and by and large the government of the united states or the administration of the president biden and our other western partners, our friends, in fact, those who are helping us, their expectations are still inclined lately towards a certain freezing of the conflict, but about the main, key, that the main thing is to stop, to stop hostilities, all this is very ...reminiscent of the phrase of presidential candidate zelensky back then and he says, how to stop, well, just stop shooting, everything is very simple, you, well, it seemed then, and now it doesn’t seem so to him anymore, but it still seems to our partners, and which are not included directly then, then the question is, do you think there is even a possibility of a diplomatic

freeze of the war, diplomacy can be used for... a frozen war, as you say, but only after the politicians make political decisions, and the politicians can decide about it , yes, politicians will make political decisions and instruct diplomats to formalize them in some way, diplomats will find a way to formalize them, they had a huge selection of tools, there would only be what is called political will for this, political will comes from politicians, and politicians cannot afford it, first of all for internal political... reasons , but society, well, at least ukrainian society, the conditions of the kremlin's capitulation simply will not accept, does not accept and will not accept, well, this must be understood. and the russian side is not going to accept other conditions than the capitulation of ukraine, therefore a diplomatic solution in the search for a compromise, yes, in the search for such a solution that would satisfy both sides, simply does not exist, and what can

be, well, what conditions should be formed , so that at least the conduct of the active phase of hostilities ceases, i am not talking about a complete settlement, i think that it is impossible, but a certain cessation of hostilities or remote shelling... is it possible in principle, when? when a party, preferably the russian federation in our case, its armed forces, so that its armed forces lose combat capability, that is, when they can be exhausted, or whether the armed forces, or the whole society, whether there is an economy, other resources, whether there can be russian society exhausted, maybe it's just longer and harder, but somewhere i'm already starting to feel it, if it was earlier. felt tired from this war, well, those who are not physically present at the front and their families, but everyone else will now begin

to feel it, the next, next year will be especially difficult for them, but there is no hope or hope for russian society is not so much, more for the exhaustion of their armed forces, and here it is not even about the mobilization resource, they can recruit and recruit new and new ones, and above all morally. leadership, generality, officers, and most importantly the combat capability of their units, they lose a lot of equipment, a lot of people, and it is inevitable that this does not go away, it necessarily leads sooner or later at some stage of combat to exhaustion, to the loss of combat capability, they must be withdrawn from the front line , this is a classic, there are rotations, it’s the same in all armies, but russian, russian troops are conducting offensive operations now for... in fact, almost a year, but they started their offensive campaign with the operation near bakhmut, it seems to be october last year, here we are now we're approaching october again, it's a very

long, very long time to be offensive without a break, without a recovery, so i think it's about, about, about, about, the moment of breaking may come, well , we'll see, i wanted to i would really, really like it, now the editor told me that before mr. volodymyr and i started... the broadcast, volodymyr zelenskyi just met with donald trump in front of the cameras, before the journalists came out and said something, but now i the editor suggested that a meeting between volodymyr zelensky and donald had begun trump, well, it will be interesting to see later on the espresso broadcast what was agreed upon, if anything was agreed upon, because it is difficult to talk with donald trump, well, in the end , it is difficult to get some things from him, which can then be understood, what, what, what, that has in mind, but we will see, we will wait how it will be, and we will return to this, as you have already called it a bit scandalous of this visit, what was added,

so volodymyr zelensky went to the military plant for the production of ammunition, the plant is located in pennsylvania , is a state, which is called a state that swings during the election, that is, they can't figure out who they should vote for, the republicans or the democrats, so... he went to this factory, it's great that he went there, really, good, that he met with these people, i have absolutely nothing against it, the only thing that seems wrong to me is that he went there with three senators who represent the democratic party, until the election, which will be held on november 5, there is a month left and how many and a week, well, two weeks, to go, was it far-sighted, it seems to me that it is short-sighted, even more short-sighted, i think it was... a few days ago there was talk on the air of one of the american tv channels about the speech of the candidate for vice president from the republicans, that is, the one who can

work with donald trump, jd vance , as volodymyr zelenskyy called his statements by j. d. vance about ukraine, that at some point we should give up and sacrifice our territories, although i, as a ukrainian, do not agree with this, of course, but volodymyr zelenskyy on the air of the american called the tv channel too... radical statements, did not like it, if in the first case, during the visit of volodymyr zelensky to the military plant with senators, democrats, it was not liked first of all by the trumpists, who represented those represented in the house of representatives, as well as in the senate of the congress of the united states of america, and there even one of the heads of one of the committees of the house of representatives even initiated an investigation, but he enters again. into this trumpist group, they didn't like it, the trumpists want an investigation, why, because they consider it an influence in the election campaign in the united states

of america, so in the second. in the case when volodymyr zelenskyi called jaydy vance's statements too radical, i have already looked for non-trumpists who are not satisfied with this, for example, senator john cornyn, who can replace mick mcconnell, this is the incumbent, the leader of the republicans in the senate, and by the way, this john cornen was one of 22 republicans who voted for ukraine aid when the trumpists blocked it. allocation of this aid, so this senator said in on the air of one of the american tv channels, quote: i believe that this is a colossal miscalculation by president zelenskyi, if he wants ukraine's support, he should stay away from american politics, and by the way, the same thing, practically the same thing, he repeated almost word for word and his colleague, who was also one of the 22 senators who

voted for the aid allocation. to ukraine, this is senator whip john tum, tun. just so you understand, this senator whip john thune, he even argued last year with ron desantis, the governor of florida, who said then that support for ukraine has nothing to do with american security at all, and therefore we need to rethink support for ukraine, but this very senator said that no, it is support for ukraine in this war with russia that is a very important element in american security policy. yes, they are both very. did not even wave a finger at volodymyr zelensky, but they clearly said: if you want help, do not get involved in american politics, mr. volodymyr, there are more questions than answers or answers there are, well, there are questions and there are answers, and even the options of the answers can be sorted, but i will say this here that this advice is not to get involved in the internal politics of the united states or in the american elections,

it is very practical. advice, uh, and if it had been done before the visit, she would not have appreciated this advice, and now it looks like a scandal, conflict and accusations, including from american senators or members of the house or congressmen, what is the main key problem and miscalculation, i 'll put it this way, a mistake of the ukrainian delegation, no only president zelenskyi, he heads the delegation, but there were people... who prepared, conducted negotiations and so on, the key strategic thing is that when you come, when there are presidential elections in america, especially those, from such the heat of passions and such high, high stakes in them, it's like walking into a minefield, you never know where something will blow up in you, where, where, where the mine is laid, or you, or you will be accused or that that you said something wrong, or

that you didn't say it. it can also be perceived as a fault, not said in support of someone or in someone's justification, and the beginning, as we now see the problems, was laid when president zelensky announced that he wanted to present his plan for victory not only to president biden, as the current president, from whom it depends on the decision here and now, but also on both candidates for the presidency, so to speak, to cast on the future ... well, build your fishing rod there, try to establish a connection and build with both candidates in the event that someone from they will still win, but we will work with them, continue this plan, and this was, in my opinion, a critical mistake of our ukrainian strategy in this case, which did not take into account the psychotype of donald trump, he is not the kind of person who will put up with that , that he is put on the same board with his opponent, yes, he immediately from the press, we now learn that

he wanted to meet... with president zelensky on his territory in his maralago ranch in florida, yes, it would be a private meeting in private atmosphere simply was like with orban before, zelensky would just be such a private guest at donald trump's estate, and our side quite rightly regarded this as undesirable, because it would really be a signal to society that zelensky is trump's friend. they they are friends and everything will be fine, and it’s like a form, so to speak, well, almost campaigning for trump, and the ukrainian side asked for a meeting on neutral territory, and it’s obvious, well, donald trump’s election headquarters didn’t like it, he personally, and that’s why the persecution to about a visit to pennsylvania, that's all they started to build a scandal on, if you didn't agree to our terms, then you're an enemy, then you...