the future offered the united states to conclude a bilateral security agreement with us. a project for those who care and think. political club. every sunday at 20:00 at espresso. good health once again, ladies and gentlemen. 18:30. on our watch, as i promised, bohdan ferens, an expert, an international candidate of political sciences, will be with us now and is already with us, thank you, mr. bohdan, for joining our airwaves, as it is now fashionable to say, i have the first and very, it seems to me to be an important question, so there are two points, if, what is called collecting the situation around ukrainian, russian war, russian-ukrainian, this is the initiative

of the ukrainian president, which we talked about a lot, the second is this brazilian-chinese initiative, which is criticized by western europe and north america and ukraine, but to which egypt has already joined, and saudi arabia, turkey, mexico, kenya, zambia, kazakhstan, hungary, and recently also switzerland, which seems to have accepted this option, the ukrainian option of the meeting. i have the following question for you then: we would be pleased with our version, undoubtedly ukrainians, but someone else there, the chinese or brazilians, not ukrainian, have their own option, so somewhere in the middle, is there a middle ground between these two options, because i have the impression that from the middle - either let's go to nato, but we will take a couple of pieces of land from you, or not go to nato, then we will negotiate about crimea and donbass, in short dsr the only one between this option is china, brazil and

ukraine-the western world? i don't think that right now we can talk about any middle ground, because i also don't think that the discussion of ukraine's direct membership in nato is on the agenda right now, while that is why there is now a struggle of plans, we see it, yes, everyone has their own plan, their own vision of the end of the russian war, but the question is... that really, given the context and the process, it is becoming more and more so, let's say , global, many players, many poles of influence, and interest is also different, actually, based on this, i think that so far the differences are significant, for example, between our vision and that of our western partners, mainly regarding the end of the war, and , for example, the vision of those who... so

to speak, see in their coordinate system processes of a global nature and conflict, directly between the west, between the usa, nato, for example, and between autocratic countries, or countries with different geographies, as i call them, so really, negotiations, different modalities are always a desire to come together somewhere on some points of contact after all, but when there is such a gulf on... for example, yes between the warring parties, as we have, for example, yes with the russian federation, there is directly mediation, and who can really take on this role, most importantly, on my opinion, that's why the fight is so far influences, the formation of tactical coalitions, we really do our best to include as many countries as possible at the highest level, and the russians themselves ... they are also waiting without folding their hands, that is,

they are also trying through their contacts, through those countries , which in principle, let 's say, they are deeply in the context of the russian war, they have their own interests, which they pursue, that is, they might not be against it, like the same china or india or the same brazil, so that tomorrow the war ended and they would return even more to as business as usual, and to the point that the type will get... interests only for themselves, especially in trade with the russian federation, unfortunately, that is why the world is so very pragmatic now, and in this pragmatism you still need still choose our ascending positions, so that they are the best, the strongest, and can be counted on, such a provocative question, i say right away that it can be counted on in ukraine that there will be a 100% ukrainian version, it will be accepted by the world and... on these grounds ukraine will end the war,

that is, you can imagine in general in international relations that in nato, in the eu, and ukrainian crimea, and ukrainian donbas, and russia - knows that it behaved badly, and gives reparations, contributions and so on, well , it's me i am vulgarizing contribution reparations, the lawyers there will definitely correct me, this is possible in principle, it used to happen that, well, except for the crushing defeat of japan or germany in the second world war, and i have a hard time imagining something like this and they won by all parameters, this is possible, whatever please sir bohdan, well, you know, i, as... a person, will say that everything is possible in life, and as a person with diplomatic experience and also belonging to the school of realists, in the context of geopolitics, i will say that it is necessary to strive for this, but it is super difficult to implement in view of the really ascending contexts, yes, which

we directly have now, that is, we are, unfortunately, still in a gray security zone, and there is no guarantee yet that when the war ends, we will be this... gray security zone we can, so to speak, leave, yes, and directly stand under the umbrella there of the north atlantic alliance, because for many countries, member states of nato, this issue is still quite sensitive, regarding the general expansion of nato, this is the first, second issue, the consequences, the one with which we have and will have to work , to solve problems, and they are also very extraordinary. serious ones, which, yes, russia caused a full-scale war with its aggression, so the real question here now is how to strengthen, strengthen its positions, this is directly the reality of the situation at the front, the first thing that most affects yes, even today

today and for the future, the second is those countries that are ready to strengthen us not only in words, but also in concrete actions, regardless of... the duration of the war, by the way, because one thing is rhetoric, another thing is concrete actions for a long time time we have and the financial and military context to support the political one, and the third is how the world will also be determined with conflict and there with the elections in the usa, that is, yes, what will be the stages of this mastery and conflict between directly and china and the usa, and western countries , well, actually countries. chno ok, well, actually also the near east, the situation there, which we are in, is there, i would not like to really get into it, but i can definitely tell you that it absolutely seriously affects our context. tell me, please,

when i discuss with my friends and colleagues, i say that if i put a list of all our... needs, then nato is the most necessary, that is, i even say that what can i be used for here to be punished, it is terrible that if you choose between the territory and nato, it is obvious that you should choose nato, i say, not the territory, because if we are in nato, we will deal with the territories sooner or later, but if we return the territories without nato, then these territories will sooner or later. the russian federation will again try to invade, so if you were sitting with us for a beer, mr. bohdan, would you support me or my counterparts who would say that the territory, the territory is more important than nato? well, mr. mykola, beer is with you, this, you know, this, this

is the best, that is, it’s hard not to support here, it’s not about beer, tea, okay, tea, i understand, i also about the tea, but i'm talking about the fact that so far... which again, we want, but we don't feel those impulses of a reverse nature that really gave us a concrete road map of how we can become full members, this it is necessary to take into account, secondly, i am quite sure, and i think, our reasoning should be within the nato member states, in particular, ukraine with nato in the future or in nato, this is a greater predictability for european security. precisely this predictability, it can really take into account just this, you know, this border, which is between nato, between the russian federation, where there will always be tension, but on the other hand, we are on the other side of this border and with nato, this is

greater predictability for western partners, first of all, and not ukraine in syria , again in the security zone, where we were, and all this also led us to the situation in which we are now... living, another question is how do we already have such a philo-political philosophy, political -philosophical diplomacy, i started it for you, i'm sorry, but i still have such, such an application there are. time dimension, such timing, because when i i say that territories are important, but nato is more important, i don't mean that we will forever give something to russia, i just remember the gdr, i remember the baltics, and i understand that sooner or later it will end, and it will still return in ukraine, and someday in 3, 5, 10 years, but the road alone, in fact, no, it cannot be like this in europe... so that there will be injustice for a long time, let's say so, then it is worth it

in your opinion, this is no longer a political issue, but a pr issue, well, maybe in a good way, if it were brought to the surface discussions in various ways, because now there is no discussion, it gives, we have to take everything that was ours, and discussions, and even you somehow avoid a direct answer, which is better, one way or the other. but should we talk about it at all or should we not talk and repeat that all lands are ukrainian, nato is a must, the european union is a must, donbass, luhansk region and crimea and so on and so forth. where to move? well, we return again, we return again to either maximalism, which should be, so clearly, or to realism and pragmatism, that is in fact, there are two precisely philosophical... concepts, that is, yes, who chooses the one he or she wants, but there are realities, and these realities,

again, they force in some places to make certain decisions that can influence, and for the future, and regarding justice, injustice, how long it can last, well, the cold war, it also lasted not two, not five, not 10 years, and in my subjective opinion, such a redesign of the cold war, it... is already being observed, and it will also continue for decades, and in this redesign of the cold war, it is important for us that the epicenter of all this is not on our land, that's actually my vision, i won't have a beer with you, mr. bona, oh , i won't, well, well, well, you said about the near east and what it affects, what did you mean by these latest statements by persian leaders? that is, the iranian leaders, that we are ready to sit down at the negotiating table with europe, the united

states, and if they are already shouting z russian bloggers, the persians stabbed us in the back again , how we loved them so much, and they loved us they don't like it so much, or what, or this israel-hezbollah conflict, what did you mean when you said that we... we have to consider the situation in the middle east, please, very simply and very quickly explain simply, who is interested, follows and turns on the bbc, there are other western media and channels, and it does this systematically regularly can compare simply yes focus, attention, presentation, regarding what concerns the middle east, and the limitation is certain in our western countries also exists as an informational one. in the political space, as well as in the military and financial space, but actually it is a lot

a serious threat, when in october a year ago, yes, hamas attacked israel, my colleagues, there are diplomats from western countries, they immediately said: sorry, but you will also face this harsh reality, it would seem, yes, other absolutely ascending there are contexts in conflict, but again... focus, attention, resources, they are not, so to speak, immeasurable in western countries, and therefore, the more the situation will escalate in the middle east, the harder it will be for us to fight for attention, and for financial and military aid and support, although a lot, maybe my colleagues may not agree, they say, but no, there managers at high political... levels will handle everything in western countries, but i give a simple explanation:

look at the media, measure the accents, and everything will be clear, so now everything is very strong interconnected in today's global world. thank you very much, bohdan ferens, expert, international candidate of political sciences, was in touch with us. thank you, mr. bohdan, for joining us, yes, the situation is really not easy, i would just add that... russia the soviet union, as a winner in the second world war, one of the winners, it was on the rise, it was going uphill, it was developing, it was creating... some space, some nuclear parity and so on, and now russia, on the contrary, is falling down, in in an economic and financial, technological sense, so it is difficult for me to imagine that russia will continue to be the same as it once was, well, like when it was the soviet union, strong, with huge opportunities, russian opportunities, unfortunately, for russians fall

pretty fast and i don't see how they can somehow to lead something, such... poverty, which is looming over them. now about energy, and this time we will not talk about energy with you in the sense of what, what, what the winter future awaits us, but we will talk about international energy, about gas and oil energy, certainly with ivan plachkov, the minister of piles and energy of ukraine in 99-5 and the sixth year to the chairman, chairman of the board of the union of the all-ukrainian energy assembly, mr. ivan plachko. with us, thank you mr. wang for joining us, thank you for the invitation, congratulations, good health, good health, well, look, the question is azerbaijani, russian, ukrainian, slovak-european, so it is a very complicated situation, but i will try to simplify and

explain it simply for the audience, unfortunately , i don't hear, i don't hear, hello, hardware, do something so that... so that our, our, dear guest can hear, once two, once two, once two, once two, i hear you, i hear you, i hear you, so , i'm on the way, i'm sorry, i'm just and i see, yes, i see that you are on the way, yes, i hear, so the question about this transit, mr. ivan, azerbaijani-russian-ukrainian slovak-european transit, i will explain to the audience... that, unlike oil , there were no gas pressures against russia, this was said by putin himself, you will die of cold without our gas, so i forbid you to sell it, that's why the anti-gas sanctions, well, if there were any, they are so meager, anti

-oil sanctions, and there are serious sanctions, now we are talking about the fact that azerbaijan... is negotiating with russia, somehow this gas will be mixed azerbaijani with russian, through ukrainian pipe to get to slovakia, this this is the idea, and i still haven't understood, mr. ivan, my, my question, is it profitable or not profitable for us, do we need it or not, where is our interest here, because i know that russia's interest through ukraine is 11 billion russia earns a year. precisely because of oil and gas supplies to some european countries, and we earn about 400 million, that is, times, tens, orders of times less than us, what game should ukraine have in this azerbaijani, russian, ukrainian, slovak-european transit, please sir yes yes well the game is so hard i

i, i will say that sanctions were not applied, but... the supply of gas to europe decreased, i think, significantly, and if we transported somewhere more than 100 billion cubic meters, today through the gas transportation system of ukraine, well, at most we transport up to 20 billion, there are 15, er, well, the numbers are like this, they fluctuate, and her agreement is valid until january 1, 25, and... now a situation has arisen that we have to think about what to do next, first of all, it was announced , that we will not extend this agreement, and we have a contract with gazprom, it will not be extended, unequivocally, i believe that this an absolutely correct decision, we could not , could we, well, this is already a political question,

if we canceled it and did not transport it, russia would have... such arguments in order to file a lawsuit there, to demand some kind of money there arrears and so on, there are compensations, what now? well, we have to remember, well, in my opinion, this is my opinion, my personal one, that despite the fact that there were dozens of massive strikes on the electric power complex, a lot was destroyed, destroyed. objects on the gas transportation system, we only had strikes on gas storage facilities, direct on gas pumping station, we have not had a missile attack and... and i think that this is because there is transit, transit is going, and russia did not do it, and this allows us to more reliably supply

the population of ukraine with gas, now what to do, there are, well, if there were three options, the first option is to refuse and not transport, this is a cardinal option, but we need to be ready for... massive strikes on the gas transportation system, the second option, the second option, we can ask the question in such a way that let there be slovakia, hungary, austria, who buys gas in russia, they buy it at the russia-ukraine border, they conclude agreements for transportation with us, with ukraine, with naftogaz, and we... will be responsible for this transportation, there will be gas, and this is some kind of guarantee , it may be small, that we will not have, there will not be massive strikes on

the gas transportation system, and this third option, which is twisted, as if azerbaijani gas will be transported to europe via russia via the gas transportation system of ukraine, then you know, it will happen.. that is, this gas is not malicious, it is as if this, such a spot thing, here, it is supposedly a spot, there is a market, and from this market the azerbaijanis compensate russia for a certain volume of gas, and that russian gas goes through the gas transportation system, which option is correct, it is difficult for me to say, well, i think that the second option is better, the second one. the option would be better if we make such a decision, and if a political decision is made no relations of no gas, then we must be

prepared for the fact that we will have problems with the gas transportation system, unfortunately, from the distribution gas transport system for the provision of settlements, there are these cities. and so on, with gas, we can do without this additional gas, that is, there is such a, well , if there is a threat that if there is no gas, our pressure will be reduced, and we will not be able to supply to some regions there, and so on, well , i can say that we have been preparing for this since the 14th year, yes, there will be problems with... the direct operation of the gas transportation system, but there is also a threat of such massive strikes, i.e., i.e. clarifying, mr. ivan, it means that

it is beneficial for us, one way or another, to preserve our gas transportation system so that it is not shot at, and we could ensure that there are fewer opsils and that there is more gas in ukrainian homes, it is correct, if we summarize . i understand you, yes, yes, it is necessary, no, it is necessary for us to decide, it is difficult for me to say, i do not know in this situation, it is simply necessary to master the issue as a whole, i am simply saying what are the options and what can to be with every option, in general it is a more political decision, this is it decision by the leadership of the country, well, but as far as i understand, it's a bad enough look. putin is losing face, because it was he who said that i will not give you gas, and now he is negotiating with azerbaijan, let's make it so that after all there was gas and we will

supply it, and in short, i would, if ukraine was not involved here, i would laughed, just because the rockets are flying, i'm not laughing, but it's a loss of face, it's not us, it's you who said, look, really, if the gas is stopped in europe. putin will finally lose the european gas market, which is transported by pipeline, finally, this is the last such brook that he can still say, yes, we sell, we have a contract, we have mutual relations with european countries, with the countries of the european union and so on and so on, here already a completely different picture emerges, he... will finally lose everything, and it will be impossible to restore it, and i absolutely agree that europe, it no longer has any dependence

on... russian gas, without these volumes, european countries, even those countries that buy , they will get by in the winter, and this was repeatedly said by the leadership of the european union and european commissioner for energy, this is already a purely political issue, the political situation, now a little about russian energy, panevan, see if europe resets in order to get... gas pipelines to china, if china volunteers to buy, also the question is whether it wants it it is necessary, then russia has a lot of gas, but there is no one to sell it to, am i correct in my understanding that there will be some kind of energy catastrophe, because to complete it simply and imagine that china will agree, it will take 10 years and 100 billion, but look, i i'm sure that gitai...

will not purchase such amounts of gas, china has long-term contracts with turkmenistan, china has almost secured china, yes, they buy part of the gas from russia only because, what, that gas is cheap, and russia, it ready, she is building, she built gas pipelines to china with her own funds, she is the price. reduce and so on, but china, i don't think that it, they will buy such a volume of gas in order to be at least there, well, dependent in some, in some way, on russia, china has no problems with gas, therefore, and today gazprom already has it problems, gazprom is already almost bankrupt, in addition to financial problems, they have very technical problems, they can no longer serve. these

sanctions are working, they cannot repair gas, their gas transportation system, because they need to modernize gas production and so on, there are huge problems there, so it will intensify, and the imposed sanctions are in effect, and they, we, we, we know what the situation is in the gas industry, and with oil, this is literally... the last question, panevan, but what do you think, various experts, in general, if we knew what the price would be in six months oil, we would not become billionaires, but multi-billionaires, so no one knows, but some experts and such people seem to be the majority, that oil will become cheaper in the world and will therefore affect russian opportunities, what do you say about such, well, such imaginations, well, look,

the price of... which depends on the position of the united states of america, that's for sure, only they regulate the price of oil, even no, the middle east, there is saudi arabia, qatar and so on, yes, there is influence there, but the united states, when the united states, they announce that they have there in the strategic there is a lot of oil in reserve. they will reduce purchases, the price goes down, when they increase the purchase, the price goes up, this is the largest oil consuming market and producer, so everything depends depends on the position of the united states, and we know the reason for the collapse of the soviet union, when the united states, they reduced, lowered the price on oil for several

years and... and that's all, that's why, here, here, here, how, how, how they will decide, thank you, very much, thank you, hugely, ivan plachkov, minister of fuel and energy, in 1999, 2005-6 years ago, chairman of the board of the union of the all-ukrainian energy assembly, today we were talking about a broader issue, in general about global energy, i would say, meanwhile, despite the fact that from... in the world with energy, we still need funds for drones and a charging station for reconnaissance for reconnaissance of the third regiment of special operations forces, which are located near the time ravine, where it is very hot, it is generally hot in donetsk region now, these uavs will help to improve the performance of combat missions and save the lives of our defenders, your donation will increase the effectiveness of actions against the enemy. target 890.