in the reports of the presenter of the espresso tv channel khrystyna parubiy. 20 stories, 20 fates, 20 women who defended the country. the book is dedicated to women who chose the path of fighting the enemy in the ranks of the military. women at war, search in bookstores of ukraine. with the support of the konstantin zhivago charitable foundation. every week , maria gurska meets with the head of the committee on foreign affairs of the polish diet, the representative of the polish government for the restoration of ukraine, pawel koval. as always, we talk about the most important things that happened this week in poland, ukraine, europe. what is being said about ukraine in the eu, how should we perceive the statements of european politicians and what will our accession to the eu look like? in the project close to politics, close to the world with maria gurska. every sunday at 15:30 with a repeat at 22:00 in in collaboration with sestri au. events events that

are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, the news feed reports on them. however, it was not enough to know what was happening. it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskii and invited experts soberly assess the events, analyze them, modeling our future. every saturday at 1:10 p.m with a repeat at 10:00 p.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. greetings, my name is yuriy fizar, this is espresso-interview, and today is about the visit of the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyi to the united states of america, quite a long visit, he arrived there on sunday evening, he is still there, right now at this time meets with the 45th president

of the united states of america, donald trump. so, who did he meet with, what did he talk about, and what are the pros, and possibly cons, of this visit. about this and other things, i will talk to mine today's guest is volodymyr horbach, executive director of the institute of transformation of northern eurasia. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. good day, glory to the heroes. and mr. volodymyr, today i correctly read northern eurasia, specifically eurasia. not korea, but eurasia. eurasia, because last time i presented. mr. volodymyr, as well as the director of the institute for the transformation of northern europe, is completely different here, namely eurasia, because we need to include the transformation of russia as well, maybe someday we will transform it, but today is not about that, today, as i said, we are about volodymyr zelenskyi’s visit to north america, eventually to the united states of america, about his meeting, mr. volodymyr, we will discuss all the nuances in more detail during the conversation, now i just want your , well, the general impression. from

this visit, well, i'll start with the fact that since president zelensky extended his visit for one more day, you said, yes, from sunday evening, now it will soon be friday evening, so maybe you could think that he liked visit and he extended his stay in the united states for one more day, but no, not this time, the visit took on a scandalous character, precisely because of the interaction and communication with the ex-president. trump and his team, yes, yes, the so-called trumpists, including the speaker of the lower house, the house of representatives, mike johnson, that made it scandalous because of this visit, because of the electoral struggle, let's say, the internal political struggle in the united states, but the final results i think we will make up for it with the return of the president home and those decisions which he will already accept at home, so to

speak, including in the internal personnel policy of ukraine. we'll see, we're waiting for his return, but now let's start with, well, not the main one, but one of the main ones. volodymyr zelenskyi planned and met with the current president of the united states of america, joe biden, and with the presidential candidate, kamela harris, from those, i watched these interviews, then reread the transcripts, and so... from all that i saw, passed on, it seemed to me that they were well, it was announced very seriously and pathetically, from everything that happened, it seems to me that these were some, unfortunately, it seems to me, meetings for the sake of meetings, nothing new, well, since we were not participants in either these meetings or previous ones, then we can hardly estimate what new was said in the closed part, or whether it is not new, we can guess. and even

discuss it, but what i agree with, what you say, here is the so-called or that, the same plan of victory that... was widely announced and i would even so media was promoted specifically to focus, attract attention to this, it formed certain expectations, expectations both in ukrainian society and among our foreign partners, including the americans in the united states, they expected that zelenskyi's victory plan is that that they understand by the word plan, yes , we make a list of actions one, two, three, four, and from these... actions, well, a single strategy, a common goal emerges, and that it is really something new, but by and large comments western the press boils down to the fact that this is all, this so -called plan, it does not change any strategy, is not essentially anything new,

a new plan, it is simply new requests or demands or insistence, to increase aid to ukraine, first for all the military and security assistance, well, there are various weapons, types, methods and so on, striking deep into russian territory, all this is correct, this is what we need, not just here and now, but also yesterday and the day before yesterday we needed this, but we lacked it, but there are others, there are others nuances, in addition, in addition to this list of equipment, weapons and funds that i... we need for victory, there is also economic, well, direction or section, some diplomatic assistance, and also political, which is characteristic, yes, military, economic , political and diplomatic, four, so to speak, trunk lines or directions, if it gave the impression that these

should be comprehensive measures or a comprehensive plan, but there seems to be no clear list of what needs to be done in all the other issues, except for the military , what, what, what we can do. well, i am anyway it seems to me that the military does not have a clear list, well, at least from what we know, no, the fact that the request, that we need this, that is that, they even say, well, our partners talk about this and that again a list, but there is no list, what we will do in order for this, well, i think that the military here, there are, there are military aspects that the military knows what to do and there is no need to prompt, and there is no need to interfere, so, but i would like to pay attention to what i am interested in. the least discussed is political part, and which, which, which political aspects can appear in this plan, and it is obvious that this is what president zelenskyi and the ukrainian side should offer to our partners, well, not what, in exchange for

weapons and money, but well, at least in su accompanying this process from his side, and a clear description of what exactly it is, well, it is mentioned somewhere... well, political reforms, for example, but what political reforms, are they elections or are they changes to to to to some for well in general democratic legislation, whether it is changes to the constitution, after all, yes, what are there will allow us to somehow be flexible in something else or, on the contrary, not to give in to something, we do not know this yet, unfortunately, maybe in such, i would say so, not public part of the negotiations, which we er... will not learn from the official messages, maybe there will be comments, but not unofficial messages, maybe the ukrainian side proposed some steps to the biden administration to meet their wishes, and these wishes were sounded earlier and continued and were not finally satisfied, this is both a topic of fighting

corruption, and related to hereby personnel matters, which are worth it, should be resolved , resolved in order to have closer and more trusting relations with the administration... all this time, which have not been resolved, well, i want to remind you that on the eve of state secretary blinken's visit to kyiv at the beginning of september, he submitted one of the deputy heads of the president's office, mr. shurma, resigned, seemingly independently, and this, in principle, fit into the expectations of our partners, and there is another deputy head of the office named tatarov, who is also criticized by many, many journalists and... public actors and i understand that foreign diplomats, well, not publicly, but, but they make it clear that this is a personnel problem, including a problem in ukrainian-american relations. well , maybe it's a decision, whether such decisions will be made, or have been made, or have been

promised to do something like that, to do something like that, in order to, well, if not get full support there for the victory plan, then at least the decisions that yesterday... it was announced that ukraine would receive financial support there in the amount of almost 8 billion dollars, it could be an additional argument for a positive decision, let's say so, but again. after all, we will see all this only after president zelensky returns to kyiv, and we will observe his decisions, especially personnel decisions, they may not be made immediately, they may not be on the second day, not on the third day, but some reforms in the government and the president's office, most importantly, should take place, well , we'll see, we'll wait for the president to return, but look, here's one more thing before that, i'll be honest, this is exactly the topic of the plan'. should have discussed with you a little later, but since you started talking about it, i started with the main thing, let's, let's talk about one more

thing, of course, these conversations that we don't know about, they happened on the sidelines, what was it was said on camera, it's just that, in general, in general terms, both president joe biden and the candidate for the presidency said, kakalagaris that the united states of america will always be with ukraine until the victorious end, and we will help in... in the country , that is, nothing new, but on september 21, volodymyr zelenskyy told journalists that there was already an online meeting with the russians, regarding future negotiations, what do you think, in all of this, could there have been any pressure from the united states of america regarding this, and how is this possible, is it all connected somehow, well me, i am familiar with this media report, what about this statement, and i know that... this kind of negotiations, even yes, not directly, as

they say now, but online somewhere through the internet, they are still conducted through an intermediary , that is, everyone in the conference is present, but everyone addresses the mediator and the mediator communicates alternately with both sides, both ukrainian and russian, here it is important to know what the topic of these negotiations was, because the fact that such negotiations are conducted, for example, on the topic of the release of prisoners or or hostages or civilians who are illegally obtained somewhere on the russian side, all this happens through mediators, we heard about turkish mediators, about qatar, we heard about the united arab emirates, but for the united states to act as a mediator in the ukrainian-russian, i haven't heard anything like that before i think that this has not happened yet, at least the official position of the white house and the state department remains that ukraine should decide what and how to conduct negotiations. to irrigate under what conditions, i.e. here so far the united states, well,

they did not put any very hard or decisive pressure on the ukrainian side in this way, well, at least we do not know anything about it, most likely this is how it is and it is, but some informal influences, advice there, wishes, formulating one's expectations, it can be, and it sounds in the public space and at large. account and the government of the united states or the administration of president biden, and our other western partners, our friends, in fact, those who help us, their expectations are still leaning towards a certain freezing of the conflict lately, that's about the main thing, the key thing, the main thing stop, stop hostilities, all this is very reminiscent of the phrase of presidential candidate zelensky back then, who says that... how to stop, well, just stop, stop shooting, everything is very simple, well, it seemed then,

it is now, and he doesn’t it seems, but still seems to our partners, and which are not included directly, then, then the question, but in your opinion, is there even a possibility of a diplomatic, at least freezing of the war? diplomacy can be used to freeze, as you say, war, but only after... after politicians make political decisions, and politicians can decide about it, yes, politicians will make political decisions and entrust diplomats to formalize them in some way, diplomats will find a way to arrange, led a huge selection of tools, there would be only that it is called political will for this, political will comes from politicians, and politicians cannot afford it, first of all for internal political reasons, that is, society, well at least ukraine. society, well, the conditions of the kremlin's capitulation simply will not accept, does not accept and will not

accept, well, this must be understood, and the russian side is not going to accept other conditions than the surrender of ukraine, therefore a diplomatic solution in the search for a compromise, yes in the search for such a solution, which would satisfy both parties, simply does not exist, but what can to be, well, what conditions must be met in order to at least stop the conduct of the active phase of hostilities. i am not talking about a complete settlement, i think that it is impossible, but a certain cessation of hostilities or remote shelling, it is in principle possible when, then, when some party. in this case, it is desirable for the russian federation, its armed forces, so that its armed forces lose their fighting capacity, that is, when they can be exhausted, or whether the armed forces, or the whole society, whether there is an economy, other resources, whether the russian society can be exhausted, maybe, maybe just longer and harder, but somewhere it is already starting to feel it, if

before it felt weak fatigue from this war, well, those who are physically not no no no... their families are also present at the front, and all the others , well, now they will begin to feel that the next, next year will be especially difficult for them, but there is not much hope or hope for russian society, more about the exhaustion of their armed forces, and here it is not even about mobilization resources, they can recruit and new and new recruits, and first for everything is a moral and psychological resource of leadership, generals, officers, and most importantly. the ability of their units, they lose a lot of equipment, a lot of people, and it is inevitable that it does not go away, it necessarily leads sooner or later at some stage of the conduct of hostilities to exhaustion, to the loss of fighting capacity, they must be withdrawn from the front line, this is a classic , there are rotations, it’s the same in all armies, but russian, russian troops have been conducting

offensive operations for almost a year now, but they started their offensive with the operation near bakhmut, this it seems like october last year, but now we are approaching october again, it is a very long, very long time to conduct offensive actions without a break, without a recovery, so i think that already here, here, here, here, there may be a turning point, well, we will see , i would like to, i would very much like to, now the editor told me that before mr. volodymyr and i started broadcasting, volodymyr zelenskyi was just meeting with donald.' in front of the cameras, in front of the journalists, they came out and said something, but now the editor told me that the meeting with volodymyr had begun zelenskyi and donald trump, well, it will be interesting to see later on the espresso broadcast what was agreed upon, if anything was agreed upon, because it is difficult to talk with donald trump, well, in the end, it is difficult to get some things from him, which you can then

understand what, what is meant, but we will see, we will wait, how it will be. you and i will return to this, as you already called it, a bit of the scandal of this visit, which was added, so volodymyr zelensky went to the military production plant munitions, the plant is located in pennsylvania, this is what they call a swing state during elections, that is, they can't figure out who to vote for, republicans or democrats, so he went to this plant, it's great that he went there, really, it's good that he's with--with these people, i don't mind at all, the only thing that seems wrong to me is that he went there with three senators who represent the democratic party, before the election that will take place on november 5, there is a month left and how many a week, well two weeks, to go, was it short-sighted, i think it was short-sighted, even

more short-sighted, i think it was a few days ago to talk on the air of one of the ... i.e. the one who can work with donald trump, j.d. vance, as volodymyr zelenskyi called his statements by j.d. vance about ukraine, that we must surrender our territories at some point, although i, as a ukrainian, do not agree with this , of course, but volodymyr zelenskyi v on the air of the american tv channel called too radical statements, he did not like it, if in the first case during. in the case of volodymyr zelenskyi's visit to the military plant with senators, democrats, it was not liked primarily by the trumpists, who are represented in the house of representatives, as well as in the senate of the congress of the united states of america, and there even one of the leaders, one of the committees of the house of representatives even

initiated the investigation, but again he is part of this group of trumpists, they are not i liked it, the trumpists want... why, because they consider it an influence on the election campaign in the united states of america, so in the second case, when volodymyr zelenskyi called the statements of jaydy vance too radical, i already looked for not even the trumpists, who are not satisfied with this, for example, senator john cornyn, who can replace mitch mcconnell, is the current republican leader in the senate, and by the way, this john. cornyn was one of 22 republicans who voted for the allocation of aid to ukraine, when trumpists blocked the allocation of this aid, so this senator. said on the air of one of the american tv channels. quote: i believe that this is a colossal miscalculation by president zelenskyi, if he wants ukraine's support, he should stay away from

american politics. and by the way, the same thing is practically the same, well almost word for word his colleague, who was also one of the 22 senators who voted for the allocation of aid to ukraine, repeated it almost word for word, senator whip john tum. toon, so you understand, it's... senator whip john toon, he's even argued in the past year with ron desantis, the governor of florida, who said then that support for ukraine has nothing to do with american security at all, and therefore we need to rethink support for ukraine, but this particular senator said that no, it was support for ukraine in this war with russia, is a very important element in the american security policy, so both of them did not even lift a finger at volodymyr zelensky, but they clearly said: you want... help not to get into american politics, mr. volodymyr, more questions, than answers, are there answers, ah, well, and

there are questions, and there are answers, and even the options for answers can, can, can be gone through, but i will say this here that this advice should not get into the internal politics of the united states or american elections, this is very practical advice, and if it was done before the moment of ... and now it looks like a scandal, conflict and accusations, including from american senators or members of the house or congressmen, that's the main key problem and miscalculation, i'll tell you so the mistake of the ukrainian delegation, not only president zelenskyi, he heads the delegation, but there were people who prepared, conducted negotiations and so on, that's the key. tegical is that when you come, when there is a presidential election in america, especially one with such intense passions and

such high, high stakes in them, it is like entering a minefield, you never know , where what will blow you up, where, where, where the mine is laid, or you, or you will be accused, or that you said something wrong, or that you did not say, that too can be perceived as a fault, they did not say in... someone's support or in someone's justification, and the beginning, as we now see the problems, was laid when president zelensky announced that he wanted to present his victory plan not only to president biden, as to the current president, on whom the decision depends here and now, but also to both candidates for the presidency, so to speak, cast your fishing rod for the future, and build there, try to... establish a connection and build with both candidates in the event that one of them will still win, but we will work with them, continue this plan, and this was, in my opinion, a critical mistake of our

ukrainian strategy in this case, which did not take into account the psychotype of donald trump, he is not the kind of person who will put up with that he is being put on the same board as his opponent, yes, he immediately from the press, we now learn that he wanted to meet with president zelensky on his territory, in his rancho maralago. in florida, yes, it would be a private one, in a private atmosphere, it was just like with orban earlier, zelensky yes i would just be such a private guest at donald trump's estate, and our side quite rightly regarded this as undesirable, because it really was . almost agitations, so to speak. for trump, and the ukrainian side asked for a meeting on neutral territory, and this is obvious, well, the election headquarters of donald trump did not like it, he personally, and that is why

the pressure on the visit to pennsylvania, they all began to build a scandal on this, if you did not agree to our terms, then you are an enemy, then you work for our competitor, donald trump said yes, yes, that zelensky is obviously interested in victory. kamala harris, that is why he behaves as if he is, although there was absolutely nothing seditious or pre-election in the visit to this factory, the fact that congressmen and republicans were not invited there, maybe there was some kind of malfunction, i think lindsey graham i would definitely go, well, they are now all focused on their constituencies, on their election campaign and on... on someone else's territory to waste time, they won't have time, there is something there, but what, well, the nuances are not taken into account here, that's all - still my hometown, well,

the city where i was born. president biden, this plant is located there, and that is why trump and his, his team still perceive biden as their main opponent, it was as if it was not considered to me on the ranch, but to him on the homeland, so jealousy is certain, well, a lot psychological nuances, which in fact well, they don't speak badly about zelenskyi, but rather about the ukrainian delegation, they speak badly about donald trump, his psychology, his assessment of approaches, this is a certain hysterics. narcissism, and others, boastfulness and all the rest, characteristics, we know him from his previous presidency, and now he behaves the same, the same way, but interestingly, please remember what you want, we have advertising, we are now for a few minutes of advertising, we will leave, we will not leave, we will be waiting for you in a few minutes to continue the broadcast, in a fresh... in the release

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was already happening. because this meeting is probably taking place somewhere in the past.