call in ukraine, at 12 o'clock , iryna koval works for you in the studio on the espresso tv channel. greetings to all viewers. minister of foreign affairs andriy sebiga arrived on a working visit to hungary. there, he already met with his hungarian colleague peter sijart, the ministry of foreign affairs reported. first, the ministers will hold talks in the tetatet format. they will discuss the development of good neighborly relations, the implementation of joint projects, in particular in the field of economy. as well as promotion

of ukraine's accession to the eu and nato. in the ministry of foreign affairs emphasized that the visit to hungary is a continuation of the first regional tour of the newly appointed minister of foreign affairs. even more restrictions. the european union is preparing a new package of sanctions against russia, western media reports. this time the sanctions are planned to be devoted to hybrid threats from moscow. however, the exact data to whom the volume will apply. it is not disclosed yet, a new package of sanctions will be presented in advance next week. in six districts of the kyiv region, fragments of downed shaheds were recorded, due to the fall of the remains of downed targets, grass got busy a fire broke out in a private house in one of the districts, and a cemetery was damaged in another, said the head of the regional military administration, ruslan kravchenko. previously, no one was injured.

the russians also attacked cherkaschyna with shaheds that night. in uman, as a result of falling debris , a field with corn caught fire. emergency personnel managed to extinguish the fire quickly - reported the head of the region ihor taburets. information about the victims is currently being clarified. and at night, the russians launched 73 shaheds across ukraine. our defenders destroyed the sky 67 drones in 11 regions. one drone flew in the direction of belarus. three more were lost in location in the north of the country as a result of the action of rep, the air force reported. we ask you to join our gathering. we need funds for drones and a charging station for the reconnaissance of the third regiment of special operations forces, which destroys the enemy in the chasovoy yar region of donetsk region. the russians constantly attack and try to capture the city, because it is a commanding height from which it is easier to shell other settlements. our defenders. are on

the defensive, but need our help. soldiers need drones, they will help not only improve the performance of combat missions, but also save the lives of our soldiers. so your donation will increase the effectiveness of actions against the enemy. our goal is uah 890,000. with your help, we have already collected almost uah 500,000. remember, your donations are very important, so get involved. you can now see all the details on the screen. in lviv, a three-year-old boy stuck his hand in an electric meat grinder, the child was brought to st. nicholas hospital in serious condition to save his limb, doctors involved the work of rescuers of the state emergency service. they cut the metal structure of the meat grinder with a grinder. the boy's hand was freed. the condition of the child is currently unknown. he sold drugs. in kyiv. the police

detained the man, previously the suspect had driven from cherkasy to the capital in his own car and made group bookmarks with illegal substances. law enforcement officers detained a drug dealer during another sale. during the searches, they found 18 kg of cannabis, a package with amphetamine and another 300 ecstasy pills the estimated value of the recovered substances is about uah 8 million. law enforcement officers liquidated an international criminal call center, the special operation was conducted together with czech colleagues, the national police reported. the impersonators pretended to be bank employees, called citizens of the european union and reported the alleged hacking of their accounts, and then offered to transfer the money to safe places. therefore, the attackers managed to steal about uah 56 million. the activity of the international was liquidated.

of the call center, where citizens' funds were seized of the czech republic call centers worked in kyiv, dnipropetrovsk and kirovohrad regions. the organizer of these call centers is a resident of the city of dnipro. who organized the specified criminal scheme with the participation of foreigners and citizens of ukraine who spoke the czech language. spyed on ukrainian air defense sites. in cherkasy region, the security service kidnapped a russian agent. an unemployed man wanted to earn money, so he decided to work for the occupiers. he spied on ukrainian mobile fire groups and recorded locations on camera location of anti-aircraft missile complexes and radar stations. the agent was caught red-handed. correspondence with the russians was found in the mobile phone. now he faces life imprisonment. a dust storm covered ukrainian cities. residents of dnipro, kharkiv and poltava complain of smoke and the smell

of burning. during the night , a coating of yellow dust formed on cars - they write in local telegram channels. according to the windy service , the situation is similar and even worse now almost throughout europe, as well as. in north africa. to ukraine, dust moves with the wind from uzbekistan, kazakhstan and turkmenistan. meanwhile, the carpathians became white. pozhezhevska meadow, next to mount hoverla, was covered with snow. it is also aimed at dragobrat, local media reports. the weather worsened in ivano-frankivsk region yesterday, the first snow fell already at night. this week, weather forecasters predict freezing temperatures in vysokhir. all our children implement the "right to a family" project under this slogan. within its framework , a support center for families with children has been opened in the center of buyark, more about who and for whom, see

below. the family and children support center has opened its doors in the boyar community, in a space recently renovated and'. will provide free social services to families who need it, work under the slogan no other people's children. specialists working in the center provide social support services to vulnerable categories of families, families who find themselves in difficult life circumstances, or who are at risk of finding themselves in difficult life circumstances, social support and orphanages, as this is mandatory for our state information. on questions social protection, group individual consultations of psychologists, mutual support groups. the mayor of boyarka noted that many similar initiatives are being implemented within the community, but not all of them are successful, which is definitely not

the case with the "right to a family" project. we see that this is our work, it will improve our social services. which we can give to our children, our families, parents, so that in our community with this problem, so that it does not exist. seven communities of two regions of ukraine participate in the project. its main the goal is to ensure the rights of children and especially focus on deinstitutionalization reform so that every child has a family. as part of this project, in the frankivska and kyiv communities. such social centers are being rebuilt in the regions, social workers are being trained, whose goal is to support families with children, to develop foster families, to support families of immigrants, so that no child ends up either on the street or in a boarding school. the right to family project is implemented not only

in ukraine, but also in albania, armenia, belarus and north macedonia. its financially is supported by the federal ministry of economic cooperation and development of germany, because even. in the difficult conditions of a full-scale war, there are no other people's children. a fire broke out at the biolab chemical plant in the us state of georgia. now , local authorities have begun evacuating the population in nearby areas, western media reports. the preliminary ignition started due to a malfunction of the sprinkler systems. this led to a reaction between the water and the chemicals. at first the fire was brought under control, however. later the fire broke out again. more if you are looking for interesting videos on the espresso youtube channel, be sure to subscribe, because there are live ether broadcasts, all news releases, programs and special projects that you can only see here. also a short video on hot

topics in the shorts section. share them, comment and be there. such were the news at that time already. at 2 p.m. you are waiting for my colleague anna eva melnyk on the air. you can read more on our spresso tv website, and of course, follow us on social networks. i, iryna koval, wish you... a good continuation of today and see you tomorrow, the verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top... guests: foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society , and also feedback,

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vitaly portnikov is with you. on september 29, ukraine celebrates a sad day, a sad anniversary genocide in babi yar, this massacre became one of the symbols of the holocaust of the 20th century in the ukrainian case of the kul holocaust, and every year we talk about why violence... continues to be the norm in the life of our world, why the sad experience of genocides does not teach humanity anything , and it can be said that this topic has become particularly relevant in recent years during the years of the russian-ukrainian war, because at the same time we are discussing with you the topic of genocides that took place during the second world war and we are talking about new russian victims. across ukraine, massed today's attack on zaporizhzhia, yesterday's

attack on the hospital in sumy, all these efforts of authoritarian regimes to hit the civilian population, intimidate people, kill women and children remain a part of our existence with you, and i remind you once again how humanity failed to draw the right conclusions from what happened in the 20th century, the guest of our program is yosif zisles, a dissident, rights activist, co-president of the association of jewish organizations and communities, vat. congratulations, mr. yosy, and andriy kozytskyi, historian of experimental genocides and the history of political violence in the 20 centuries congratulations mr. andriy. good afternoon, you know, i want to start our conversation with a question that seems to me to be quite important, and i haven't found an exact answer to it, to be honest, i recently spoke to an audience here in lviv. lviv businessmen, and i was asked why israel is fighting so hard

for its independence, for the observance of its sovereignty, for many decades now in the circle of such enemies and internal and external challenges, and i will say that in principle there is such a trauma of the holocaust, which quite seriously determines the political thinking in the jewish state, despite the fact that the community that, in principle, created this state... did not go through the experience of the holocaust, but saw the tragedy of its compatriots, its relatives, and i was asked why ukrainians don't have such a pronounced trauma, the famine, that can be compared in terms of the impact on the trauma, with the trauma of the holocaust, i thought that yes, this is indeed a question that needs an answer, especially since all can be said of the post-war decades. ironically, the trauma of the famine it was felt most of all in those territories where it was not, in galachyn, where people knew

about it, but did not experience it, and from a political point of view, on the territory of the entire other country, which was actually the territory of this genocide, such a trauma in the political sense the word was not felt, and i think it is not fully felt even now about this need to survive, but how would you answer this question, let's start, let's start with you. thanks for the question, as always a difficult question from you, in my opinion, almost all comparisons are recent. 30 years of ukraine and israel, they are more superficial than deep. we are two deep, two different peoples, two different nations, and we have a very different identity at the state level and even at the deep level, that is, at the level of civilization. what does this mean? why is israel

fighting so hard, because in 48, when it was created. in fact, the state of israel, it immediately received a threat of destruction from 6.7 arab countries there, that is, the struggle for its independence is simply cemented, coded in the entire history of independent israel in the 48th year, this war has been going on for 76 years, and i do not i see their end, because it is impossible. to destroy israel, which has 9 million arabs, 9 million jews, a little less, 300 million arabs who live around and mostly hate israel. israel was not just under the threat of losing state sovereignty there, like ukraine, it was already in 1948 facing the threat

of complete destruction, and complete destruction with the history that... was passed on to it, it mobilizes the people very much. in israel, as far as i understand, there is such a thing as a national consensus. this means that somewhere 75-80% population have approximately the same idea about the past of israel, the jewish people, about the present and about the future. and this means a high degree of mobilization of the people, when such a high percentage. similar ideas, and it did not arise immediately, but now we have just such a national consensus, in contrast to this, ukrainians are not threatened with extermination, there are 65 million ukrainians in the world, they are not threatened with complete extermination even on the territory of ukraine, because after all, this war from for in my opinion,

not a historian, differs from the second war world, russia killed. ukrainians, citizens of ukraine regardless of ethnicity. there is blinding shelling, there is bombing, as you rightly pointed out, but this war is more like the muslim wars. if a ukrainian is ready to work for russia, is ready to speak russian, that is, if he is ready to stop being a political and social ukrainian, nothing stands in his way, he will be accepted with pleasure, integrated into the russian language. system, and it will continue its rather harmless existence, and we see it in thousands of cases of collaborators who exist in the occupied territories. this is a different kind of genocide, it is more of a political and civil genocide than an ethnic one. i am not saying that it is not genocide, it is also genocide, because when raphael lemkin prepared

his documents, which was accepted by the united nations in 1948, it was there at first. marking that extermination on political and social grounds, but the intervention of the soviet union threw out these two, two signs from the signs of genocide, and they still have not returned, although we have many genocides precisely on this, on such a sign, i think that this is about it is we who say, we are different, we, we are in different historical eras, when israel was created, we are a little younger. much younger than israel, and we have a different identity, there is no holocaust in israeli identity, it is in the historical memory of many, because it is studied in school, but the trauma of the holocaust is present in diaspora jews, they all have an identity in which a significant part occupies the holocaust, but i, for example, live in the diaspora, i have it,

less possible than others, israelis do not have this trauma, they have knowledge. and they know that it will never happen again, and for that there is israel, a powerful state despite its small size, powerful militarily, powerful economically, powerfully democratic. mr. andrii, well, as a historian, i should pay attention to a formal matter: nazi germany was destroyed in 1945 , and the truth about the holocaust could be spoken immediately. israel created the yadbash museum, as far as i remember, in 1953, instead, ukrainians lived for 60 years in a state where there was no truth about the holodomor, moreover, the truth about the holodomor was punished, and... if we let's try to mentally imagine such an experiment that nazi germany existed until 2005, then the truth about

the holocaust would also be covered by the words of resettlement to the east, a special treatment of jews, it is said that until the very end of the existence of the soviet union, the communists in the soviet union denied famine, and it was an essential component of their political regime. even after the liberalization in khrushchev's time, when khrushchev identified a certain part of stalin's crimes that can be talked about, the holodomor, of course, cannot be talked about in the ussr started, so the ukrainians just started later, i agree with mr. yosyp that, unfortunately, there is a large part of people in ukraine who were victims of this soviet propaganda, but the war, the full-scale invasion put everything in its place, there were two polls in 2020. 23 years about the attitude of ukrainians to the holodomor, which showed that more than 93% of ukrainians have no doubt that it was genocide, and only the actual

killing of ukrainians pushed them to this realization. well, regarding the fact that the genocide of ukrainians is taking place as a socio-political one phenomenon, i would not agree, it is without a doubt the same genocide, because if we ask the question, is genocide simply the killing of people? or the destruction of a people, nation, ethnic group, race or group as such, then the transfer of ukrainians to the camp of the russians is the liquidation of ukrainians as a people, the social, cultural, economic influence of ukrainians disappears, and of course there is a difference here, because hitler did not intend to build the third reich with the hands of jews , he wanted to destroy the jews, because the jews will build a different reich, they, they have jewish physics, they have jewish ... business, everything degenerative art, degenerative art, of course, everything must be aryan, instead, stalin was going to destroy part of the ukrainians, turn others into soldiers and slaves

of the soviet union and use them to build a world empire, accordingly, the ukrainian people would still disappear, the ukrainian people would dissolve in the soviet project, as now it's fashionable to say, but it would be the same genocide, well, here's an interesting point, we have to clarify that too. that next to the memory of the holodomor in soviet times, the memory of the holocaust was silenced, here it was possible to talk about the extermination of the jews, among other things, but the very concept of the holocaust was completely absent, mr. yosif remembers that it was not possible to approach the woman's ravine on september 29, the police arrested him for this, but by the way, about the trauma of the holocaust, i don't either i can say that it is a part of my identity so directly, i just remember it, it is a heavy part of me. memory than a part of identity, but i remember well that when i was there in the fifth grade and there was a lesson at school, a history lesson, and a history teacher

asked the children, it means that they know about what happened in babi yar, and i turned out to be the only one who knew, because i raised my hand and said, i know what happened there, the jewish population of kyiv was destroyed there, and here is a teacher, so, by the way, she came to us from russia, she says, you can't say like that, what is the jewish population? destroyed soviet citizens, and she tells me this in front of the whole class, i stand up, i know that i am there, relatively speaking, a child of jewish origin, all my classmates know that i am a child of jewish origin, she says that, and it makes me feel, well, i wouldn't say, i can't say that i didn't care, i didn't feel safe, i just felt that i was humiliated, and just for giving a truthful answer to a question that i asked myself teacher, i still remember it, as you can see, a lot has passed. years, i remember this scene, and by the way, i remember exactly how my classmates, they avoided any conversations about the holodomor people, who were, say, not from kyiv, but from the kyiv region, to whom

relatives could tell, i then realized that their relatives begged them to no one not to mention that it was a secret that could not be shared with the community, it is also a trauma, mr. joseph, so common, that is why the question arises, how to overcome it in the current conditions. well, we need to overcome not only this, we have a lot in our collective identity that needs to be changed, but the question about this, we must understand that identity, especially the deep levels, changes almost only evolutionary, they cannot be changed at will , individual identity changes rather a little, for example, a million ukrainians who went to of the united states, in canada at the end of the 19th century. after three generations in terms of civilizational identity, they were no longer different from american canadians, about 100 years passed, and if it was

individual, it passed quickly. thus, what is being said, you very correctly mentioned, i am from western ukraine, i lived in chernivtsi, i always knew what the holocaust was, we just did not know that it was called that, but my, my older brother was killed by the nazis , the truth is romanian, from the iron guards, my first wife of mine father, his mother died also then, my uncle died then, that is, i... in the family it was always known that the extermination of the jews was massive, i also knew, like you, both at school and after school, but of course, parents did not recommend talking about it openly , mr. andrii, you are talking about the collective memory of ukrainians now, but to what extent this collective memory, if you will, is transformed into political exhibitions, well , it hardly has a direct correlation with

political activity. but people realized that they could be killed if someone counted them in a dangerous group of ukrainians, the peculiarity of genocide is that the victims are defined by the one who destroys them, that is, a jew can be germanized in germany, assimilated by a christian, but from the point of view of hitler or his henchmen, he still had to be destroyed, even if he was a veteran world war i, fought on the side. and had merits before the reich, a separate camp was created for them in teresivstadt, but such jews were still imprisoned. accordingly, with regard to ukrainianness, the situation is now such that many people have not thought about their identity in different regions of our country, and here they realized that they can be killed because they are ukrainians, even if they assure that they are not interested in politics,

and in this situation a person has two ways out: either run away or defend himself, and it seems to me that many people have realized that it is necessary to defend ourselves and the fact that ukraine has been enduring for 2 and a half years, well, without a doubt, an unequal battle with russia, with a partner not in our weight category, this indicates that ukrainians are concluding maybe not as fast as we'd like, but change is happening, here it is also important to understand such a thing, in principle , on... how much international attention is always paid to such events at the moment when they actually happen, then helps a realistic attitude to the challenge. we remember the history of the time, the holocaust, when one of the polish politicians of jewish origin, a member of the émigré government in london, committed suicide because he could not reach the western governments that he

told about what was happening. what is happening now during the russian-ukrainian war is still very similar, how can it be to be, and how could it be, his family died in warsaw, he tried, beren boym, i think his last name was, if i'm not mistaken, he tried to explain what was happening, well, the emigrant government of poland naturally accepted him arguments, but it was an émigré government, it could only turn to the allies, the main ones there were the western allies, like the ukrainian government, it is only the ukrainian government, and the weapons are from the allies. even the allies, and the allies simply did not believe in the intentions, they could not believe in the the idea that hitler really wants to destroy all jews, as now in the west, when we say that putin just wants to occupy the whole of ukraine, that it is not about crimea or donbas, few people still believe, and here is how to change this understanding of reality in me still after this suicide, i remember that i saw a whole exhibition in the museum, i still don't have such an exact answer, i think that people sometimes

take some desperate steps. because they understand that they are outside, even against the whole political process, what with it do? well, as always , there is no simple answer to this, because conservative, very conservative awareness, inherent not only in the west, they formed their vision of the world a long time ago, and the expert environment, politicians, and many people have certain... ideas about the present and that what is possible, the fact that russia is an analogue of the nazis, the racists, is an analogue, a certain analogue to a large extent , of the nazis, this is very badly perceived, i remember it from the 14th year of discussions there with german historians, with german journalists, they didn't even want to hear about i think that many german historians still do not want to hear this, because for us communism...