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our final half-hour, we will spend these half-hours in the company of people's deputy of ukraine volodymyr vyatrovych, who came to our lviv studio, arrived, returned to miv, quoting his hometown lviv, his hometown lviv, quoting the gadyukin brothers band, their one song, and in fact, we know that you, mr. volodymyr, will moderate a meeting, a presentation of a book about the gadyukin brothers, and there was more. and the meeting with you before that, i.e. it’s all today, it’s all today, tell the people who might want to come to lviv, unfortunately, they don’t have the opportunity to be in their native lviv that often, but when they do, they try to somehow satiate their stay, today as part of the publishers' forum there will be two events in which i will directly participate, that is, in the ksd bookstore on rohatyntsiv street, my lecture and presentation on the popularization of history will take place on the 18 an hour after i am asking everyone, on the 19th actually yurk

roketsky and i will present his book, everything is clear, this is the story of the gadyukin brothers group, in my opinion, the most lviv book of this season, so i strongly recommend all lviv residents or lovers of lviv to read this book. despite the fact that yurko is a musician, not a historian, in my opinion he managed to make a historical portrait of lviv sometime in the late 80s and 90s. well i read this book with great pleasure, i didn't even expect to get so much pleasure from it, i love books about music, but for the most part it's like this, you know, i lived a little, listened, wrote, it's much deeper, much more interesting, so i recommend shooting, well, let's go then, i don't know if i just continue this topic a little, and how much deeper it can be a story about a rock band, because it shows how, when and... this

phenomenon appeared, because the viper brothers are not just any band, it is a phenomenon, it is a very interesting phenomenon, a phenomenon of the late 80s x, the beginning of the 90s, this is a phenomenon of the destruction of the empire itself, and paradoxically, in principle, the very leader of this band, kuzya, kuzminsky, well, he was far from what he was doing, that is, in fact, what he was doing was the actual destruction of this, if we were to say serious, some kind of colonialism. well, it seems that it is not necessary, that is, he started it with his creativity, with some kind of joke, and maybe he did not have much respect for what he was doing, but despite the fact that he may not have even realized that he does, he did a colossal thing, he did a colossal thing, he actually destroyed some of these the foundations of this monumental pop soviet sovka, which gave the opportunity to manifest something else, alternative, something in... ukrainian, i am sure that

if it were not for the hadyukins, then the path of ukrainian rock and roll, ukrainian rock, well, would have taken much longer, they were just the dynamite that blew up this soviet wall. are we properly evaluating it now, or can we already reflect on it ? the way when he was sorry for his words he was an asshole, he was an asshole often, and this is not his sacralization, thank god, there will be no second kuzy, because the second kuzy of the saint, you know, because unfortunately, when i read something about scriabin and others. kuzma, who can also be treated with respect as a musician, but you definitely shouldn't sacralize him, rather, don't turn him into some kind of public political figure, explaining everything in this world by why he was killed, i'm sorry, i saw somehow such, so such graphics,

where are the portraits there, stus, chornovil, someone else, and there are others, other figures, figures and kuzma, and she killed them. russia, well, yes, if we go back to the book, thank god, there is no such sacralization, that is, it seems to me that the role and place of this particular personality in our history is adequately and quite correctly reflected, i also wanted to ask about actually, in the 80s and 90s, because ukrainians actually do not know their history well, some ukrainians have some ideas about another part of ukraine, just as that other part has ideas or stereotypes about the other. uh, a few months ago , a presenter from lviv, radio presenter slava dyomin, while giving an interview somewhere, or interviewing someone , shared his memories, he is our age, that is, just his childhood, his youthful years disappeared in the 80s-90s those, he said that in lviv, yes, everyone spoke

russian in lviv, well, most of them spoke russian, and i spoke russian in my family, lviv was russian-speaking, my grandparents, however, he later said, they... .went somewhere to lviv and worked in a prison, that is lviv 80s, 90s, what kind of lviv is this? well, by the way, serhiy kuzminsky is the grandson of the liberator, serhiy kuzminsky is the son of a party figure who was loyal to the party and the cause of the party until the end of his life, that is, for him it was, among other things, his personal protest, well, i also remember it well , lviv of the late 1980s and early 1990s, it is so galloping. russification of my school sometime in the late 1980s, which began as exclusively ukrainian, ukrainian, already became ukrainian-russian, that is, i think that if political changes had not occurred somewhere in the early 1990s, probably she would have completely switched to russian, moreover, many

ukrainian parents began to transfer their children to russian classes, because it was more promising, because it gave some better opportunities, so russification was really like that then... this is it my teenage years, this is the lviv of protests, riots, rallies, concerts, this is the wind of change, i.e. here this western wind of change was very palpable, i don’t know, i wasn’t in kyiv then, i was only in kyiv after after the restoration of independence visited for the first time, but i remember very well lviv in the 1988s, 1989s, 1990s, these constant rallies, a concert... at the ukraine stadium, rallies and concerts that were difficult to distinguish, where the rally ends and the concert begins, that's it there was really such a wave of national revival, and it seems to me that it was just here that such a colossal energy was somehow concentrated, and it was no coincidence that

the ukrainian reconquest started from here, so the waves of gradual revival that continue to this day, in fact, we are still trying to expand this ukrainian world of his, unfortunately, now already even with the use of the armed forces of ukraine, which... to take away this ukrainian world and restrain the russian measure that is advancing on us, but in fact this is the renaissance, this revival began here with these islands, why here due to historical reasons, because here better preserved, not because the galicians are somehow better than others, no, they had a chance from history to suffer less than other ukrainians, well, let's talk a little more about our relations with the poles, they were very bad in our country last time sometimes, while we still had a minister koleb, and now we have... a new minister who immediately started contacts with the poles, and yesterday we heard from our institute of national memory that we already allow exhumation, i don't know why it was prohibited for so long to exhume the victims of the volyn tragedy, to explain simply for those ukrainians who do not understand what

the volyn tragedy is and know, except for this phrase that volyn is different and that's all, i'll start with the new minister, of course it's good that he considers it an important and priority issue polish-ukrainian suus. it indeed, it is our western ally, one of the closest, and accordingly, we definitely need to settle those misunderstandings, another strange thing is that every minister, every representative is new. the new representative of power, who comes to his position, believes that everything that was done before was wrong, i will do it now, i will do it right now. it seems to me that this is precisely where all the inconsistencies lie, and what is hidden is that for our western partners in this particular issue, the issue of honoring the dead on both sides, and not only from the polish side, it is more convenient and easier for them now to simply not comply with the obligations assumed, that is , it is easier from the polish side, instead of complying with the polish-ukrainian. the agreement that was signed in 1994, from which poland also undertook certain obligations regarding ukrainian graves, simply press on and gradually step by

step move forward, instead of then to their society, in which, unfortunately, they are beginning to recruit forces of mood, some anti-ukrainian, anti-bander, so and so exactly, instead of explaining to them that we as a state have taken on obligations for example, regarding this very grave on the monastery mountain, which is protected by polish legislation, not ukrainian, polish legislation, accordingly we have to restore it. instead of ukrainian rebels who did not die in the fight against the poles, who died in the fight against the nkvd. and this grave and this grave was looted, the monument was looted, and this grave must be restored with the participation of the polish authorities, yes, yes, as it is signed by the polish authorities, but it is more difficult to explain this to the polish society, probably why they should do this, instead of just continuing to put pressure on the ukrainian authorities and demand what they need, so i honestly don't quite understand yesterday's statement of anton drubovich from the institute of national remembrance , who said that

now, in some exceptional order , another permission for prospecting will be granted , well, first of all, anton drubovych himself already spoke about the fact that at least three times such a move was applied to the poles, that there were already three three three permits data for search works on ukrainian territory, with the fact that after each time they expected that now, finally , the polish side would do what... it should be done to restore this monument, it was never done, i am sure that after the fourth, fifth and it will not be done on the 110th, because either we agree as states that respect each other, or , unfortunately, we accept this model of pressure, unfortunately, this statement yesterday shows that we are ready to supposedly accept this model of pressure, and besides, from a formal point of view, i don't quite understand, the institute of national memory is not the same the structure that gives permits, in fact, we have a special state departmental commission, in fact it is decided at the level of the ministry of culture, so i am afraid that it will be like this again... it was not just some unspoken statement made during sobiga's visit to poland in order

to create the right background, and then we will think about how to sort it out, and by the way, we already have today the reaction of the polish institute of national remembrance to this statement, anton drubowych, which says that we do not consider it a step towards a meeting at all, because the step to the meeting should be the fulfillment of our requirements, which were issued by the institute of national remembrance of poland, instead you are responding to some private ones. requests, and don't answer ours, and then there is one more important point, which was made in the statement of karol navrodski, the head of the polish institute of national remembrance, that we will continue to insist on the need to allow exhumations throughout the territory of volhynia and eastern lesser poland , i will remind those who may not be fully aware of the history of galicia, the small polish staircase is this the term used by the polish authorities in relation to galicia, ukrainian galicia, the period from... between the 18th and 39th years, actually in the context of their colonization, dissolution in general poland, that is why now, when

the official communication of the polish authorities uses the term malopolska всхудня, i'm sorry, something reminds me very much if the term malorossiya was used in the official communication of russia, and it is obvious that this is clearly a term from such an absolutely imperial colonial discourse, and it seems to me that it is absolutely not acceptable if it is about equal relations between the two peoples, but on the other hand, it seems to me that he hints at the fact that... unfortunately, it is not just about honoring the memory of the dead, it is still about some resentments, some regrets for lost territories, at least on the part of polish politicians, you know, by the way, this is such a scandalous moment, i would like, if we can, for example, show a map of this so-called, eastern lesser poland, here it is, then you will see that it completely repeats , in fact, the current three galicia region, ternopil, lviv and ivano-frankivsk, and yes... there is also ryaschiv, which was also once completely actually ukrainian, ukrainian land, which is now polish

zhezeve, and this, well, it really is, it looks quite like that, no i know the offensive, i think that this is another step to some additional pressure on ukraine, on the ukrainian government, and it is a shame that these lands have never been called lesser poland except for those there for less than 20 years. the short period when these lands were actually considered and planned to be made not an integral part of poland, historically, this galicia, this galician kingdom and so on, without a doubt, that is, here, well... the choice of this terminology, well, it is difficult for me to count, to consider it accidental, it seems to me that this is also a certain message that for us, for part of the polish government, this is a special the territory, regarding which we have special ideas that we will keep the memory of it as once, at least an integral part of the polish

state, so that's why it's actually the wrong messages if we're talking about... understanding and it's far not what it was was said even in spite of all the falsity of this reaction by minister koleba, who spoke about, recalling the vistula campaign, he spoke about the fact that ukrainians were thrown out of their native lands, because in reality those ukrainians who became victims of the vistula campaign, in fact, for them, it was their native lands, it absolutely did not mean in the rhetoric of the then minister kuliba that ukraine claims these territories, that these are some territorial claims, nothing more. it is the case that there were ukrainians on the territory of modern poland autochthonous, it is also obvious that there is a part of the polish population that lived on the territory of modern western ukraine, this does not mean any territorial claims, but instead the term malo malopolska oszychnia is clearly a political term, that is, it is not about ethnography, not about the origin of this territory, it is a distinctly political term whose task

was to integrate, at least on some narrative level, this part. the ukrainian territory of halychyna to the all-polish narrative, why is this happening with the present the government that many ukrainians put their trust in, the current government of poland put a lot of hope in, because the previous government, law and justice, just always built their policy in poland, in relation to the poles, they talked about the volyn tragedy all the time, it was just a through line of their policy , and well... donald tusk, the popular platform, clearly did not look like those who would use the volyn tragedy in any relations with the country, unfortunately, this only shows that for any polish politicians this topic is just politics , simply a source of some political dividends, unfortunately, there is such a large percentage of polish politicians, regardless of party affiliation

, who are ready, excuse the brutal comparison, to convert bones into some electoral points. and they are definitely not concentrated in one political force, because now, instead, in the wake of mr. kaczyński's narratives that ukraine will not be accepted into europe with his vision of history, which was picked up by donald tus, who was picked up by sikorsky, suddenly sounded in a sober voice the voice of the former minister of foreign affairs of poland from the correspondence of, among other things, mr. jacyk czapotowych, who on the contrary says that this is a hygiene policy, that it is not possible to... one of the implementers of the hygiene policy in relation to ukraine, for a long time, that is, he was the one who created the same thing that the current government is doing, we now have, we hear absolutely unconscious statements from andrzej duda,

the current president of poland, but his peculiarity in the fact that he is no longer under pressure there is no... pressure, because he will no longer apply for the post of president, so he also speaks about the inadmissibility of blackmailing ukraine with issues of history, so for me these are additional arguments that this is exclusively political pressure, and the polish political elites, unfortunately, not for in fact in all the leading political forces, interested in the intractability of this problem, that is, they are interested in this problem precisely as a source of some electoral points, for this it must remain unresolved, but we are talking about these burials, commemorations, again the same yesterday or the day before yesterday, jatsik chaputovych wrote an article where he says that poland is not interested in exhuming the victims of the volyn tragedy, because, to quote: it is much more important to catch the rabbit than to catch it. ugh. well,

such metamorphoses are strange, of course, of polish politicians who, when they stop being politicians, and retire, like me... czaputowicz, yes, who was the minister of foreign affairs, they then write some such adequate things, and the elections begin to stop pressing on the head and a place for consciousness appears in the head. and the minister the current minister of foreign affairs, with whom i, for example, wrote an interview before he became a minister, and he was very sympathetic to ukraine, spoke about ukraine, now, when the interview was already recorded, when he already became the minister of foreign affairs affairs, i was surprised by such a certain distance and coldness, the postures of sikorskyi are also especially strange, because i have been following his career and his political views for quite a long time, i considered him one of the most pro-ukrainian and pro-democracy, pro-european , about pro-american, anti-russian politicians, who could be and should be, for sure, one of the key allies of ukraine, moreover, as

a person who knows the history of ukraine, let me remind you that mr. sikorsky is married to applebaum, who is one of the serious historians who he knows , including the history of ukraine, and considers such brutality to be normal, acceptable. and the use of pseudo-history, not even history, pseudo-history in the current relations between ukraine and poland, that is, when sikorsky starts speaking in the voice of kaczyński, well, it makes a little a little bad, that is, this is bad, and what about polish historians, they are not heard, they are not heard at all, that is, in fact, back in 2000, after the adoption of these laws, in 2016, 17, 18, poland put an end to... the possibility of some kind of professional dialogue between by ukrainian and polish historians, because criminal liability was assumed for denying the genocide, so the historians

have nothing to say, the politicians decided everything for them, the politicians fixed the definition of genocide favorable to them, the politicians fixed july 11 as the day when some kind of the most large-scale action of the upa against the polish population, political parties recorded the figure of 100,000, which was simply sacralized. no research, and in this way they simply shut up the mouths of our colleagues in polish historians, who, in fact, are almost unheard of, and by the way, in parallel, in particular in ukraine, further research on this topic is currently taking place, i know that it is very large and interesting the project is being implemented at the ukrainian catholic university, where they are trying to accurately determine the number of victims of the polish-ukrainian conflict, with polish and ukrainian. parties and the numbers there will be very different from these mythical hundred thousand, i think, by the way, one of the reasons for maintaining the undecidability of the alleged

question of exhumation is precisely the fact that polish politicians understand that there are no 1000, that these search operations on ukrainian territory will not give the result that they are rocking, rocking in polish society, that as soon as we are allowed on ukrainian territory, we will show you huge... burials have not been established worthy of the polish victims of the polish-ukrainian conflict, because in fact, first of all, there are a large number of victims of the polish-ukrainian conflict on the polish side, dear, we have dozens of cemeteries, which are looked after by the ukrainian state and ukrainian communities, but no one knows about this in the polish information field only the narrative that supposedly somewhere on ukrainian land sounds. the scattered bones of our women and children, which bad ukrainians will not allow to be reburied properly. obviously, it causes emotion, it causes outrage, and this one emotion, they try to simply convert it into

some kind of electoral support, because we will raise this issue every time we meet with ukrainians, and you vote for us. i would very much like it to be resolved in the end and not to be such a stumbling block between ukraine and poland, because it is clearly in russia's hands, and it can be resolved within 24 hours in fact. mr. volodymyr, thank you for coming to our studio, we remind you that today there is a meeting with volodymyr yatrovych, quickly, remind me where, at 18:00 ksd bookstore, raghotyntsiy street at at 7 p.m., a coffee mine on the market square, and all this in lviv, dear friends, thank you for being with us, lesya vakulyuk, andriy saichuk worked in this studio for you, thank you for donating 31 uah today for of our troops, stay tuned to espresso tv channel, the airwaves continue. if you want to wake up as if you were a child in your grandmother's house full of strength and energy, then the new product from mattress market is just for you,

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news on the espresso tv channel. kateryna shiropoyas works in the studio. three people were injured when an enemy kamikaze drone hit nikopol in the dnipropetrovsk region. this was reported by the head of the region, serhii lysak. to a man and an elderly woman were taken to the hospital. another victim will be treated at home. the drone also damaged a private house, an outbuilding and a gas pipeline. the russians attacked again from a drone.