but on october 5 and 6, there will be more rain in ukraine, including in kyiv, and sometimes they will be even heavy, but of course we will talk about this in our next updated weather forecasts on the espresso channel. good evening, we are from ukraine. urgently change course. one after another, the western media come out with disappointing news. headlines about the war in ukraine. the economist wrote that the war is going badly. the authors argue that if ukraine and its western allies want to win, they must first have the courage to admit that at this point they lose. already today at 9:15 p.m. velikiy lviv is speaking, a platform where everyone gets to speak and everyone is heard. on the air of the espresso tv channel. freedom in the mornings is only the most important thing. we talk about topics about which others are silent, paying attention to details

that others don't notice, one air, one topic we explore from different angles, now 20 minutes, because we value your time, watch weekdays at 9:10 on espresso, or any convenient time on radio svoboda youtube. today in the verdict program with serhii rudenko. many lives were saved. in the 72nd the brigade of black zaporozhets claim that the departure from the ugledar allowed to minimize the loss of personnel. why do some analysts say that the withdrawal order is untimely? sharp scaling of weapons production. the president and the government. report on the increase in the production

of defense products several times, what is the real situation and what are the development prospects of ukrainian. we saw a number of productive steps. in the usa, the victory plan proposed by ukraine is cautiously evaluated. what decisions can be expected from the partners at the next ramstein, and when zelensky will reveal his secret plan. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next hour, we talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. let's talk about what is currently happening in kurshchyna, and about the withdrawal of the armed forces of ukraine from ugledar. we will have three for the whole hour. guests are

roman kostenko, oleksandr kovalenko and viktor boberenko. however, before starting our big conversation today, i suggest looking at the consequences of another racist one attacks on kharkiv, on the evening of october 2, they attacked kharkiv cabs, destroyed a high-rise building. currently, we know about 12 victims, including... a girl, high-voltage transmission lines are also damaged in the city, there may be power outages, we'll see.

friends, we are live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us live on these platforms, please subscribe to our platforms and also take part in our survey. today we ask you about whether zelensky should make his victory plan public, meaning the plan that... both

the president of ukraine and the head of his office presented in the united states of america. so, everything is quite simple on youtube, yes, no, if you have a separate opinion, please write it in the comments under this video. if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote for the numbers. if you think that zelensky should publicize his plan for victory in ukraine, 0800 211 381, no, 0800 211 382. all calls these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce today's first guest, this is roman'. kostenko, people's deputy of ukraine, secretary of the parliamentary committee on national security, defense and intelligence, colonel of the security service of ukraine. mr. colonel, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. greetings, good evening everyone. mr. colonel, since we are asking our viewers and tv viewers whether

zelensky should make his victory plan public, and, that it is possible, said the head of the president's office andriy yermak, do you think that... the plan that was presented in the united states of america, should it be made public in ukraine? well, at least someone other than the president's office should see it, and i believe that the committee should also see it and, well, let's say this, not the committee, the people's deputies, i don't know who in the government is involved in what, well, society, of course, we have to understand, i don't think there is anything so secret, of course, if there is a secret part of it, it's one story. well in in general, i think the points, even before he went to show it to the united states , i said that, of course, it should at least be discussed by society through members of society in order to understand, and what is there

in that regard, so of course i would like to see , i think a lot of people would like to see him too, because the president represents the whole country first and foremost, not himself. absolutely correct, mr. colonel, and today the secretary general of nato, the new secretary general of nato mark rutte, former the prime minister of the netherlands, this is his first foreign visit in his new status, and during the meeting with rutte, zelenskyi spoke about the situation with the coal mine, zelenskyi called the departure of the ukrainian armed forces from the city correct, because it made it possible to save the lives of the fighters . let's listen to what the supreme commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine said. without the appropriate weapons, we cannot stop the russian federation, which uses the appropriate weapons against us, destroys everything, and when they

destroy the positions of our fighters, they must to save their lives, because they are much more important than any buildings, and therefore... because these are our people, they are citizens of ukraine, and therefore it is very right that they leave and can save themselves for the sake of the state and for the sake of their heroic service. mr. colonel, in the 72nd brigade of the black zaporozhets, they say that the withdrawal from the ugledar allowed to minimize the loss of personnel, why then some analysts talk about the not... timeliness of the order to retreat, look, i am about that, about what i said president, from my point of view it doesn't matter what the supreme thinks the commander-in-chief in terms of what he thinks, how he thinks, let's say this, whether it

was right or wrong, if he thinks it's right, that's his point of view, it was proved to him by the commanders, but to say to the whole country that withdrawal - it is correct, as you as the supreme and for... to hear about this in the future, well, i think this is a wrong story, me as a military man, as a person who also performed combat tasks, i think that everything is different here talk about what is right and wrong, well, i think it is necessary to talk with the military, what was the situation there, what was the situation of the 72nd brigade, there are different versions, what we learned there about what forces and means they had. that they were exhausted there, everyone wanted to change them, but then the circumstances turned out to be such that they were not changed, and they continued to stand there in an incomplete formation, wiped out and held the defense until the end, well , i think 72 was heroically there , the fact that the enemy uses the means there, well, yes, it’s

cabs, but i think the problem is deeper, it’s not only in cabs, it’s also in training, in the presence of trained personnel, here you need to analyze everything, and also... i will say that, of course, no matter what, it is very bad that we are the outpost that we held for almost 3 years, we left it, of course the consequences are necessary, at least we need to speak , to investigate and see where and why we did this, that the soldiers kept the same 72nd for three years, they did not keep it here. mr. colonel, what could be the consequences of the withdrawal of the armed forces from ughledar, given the disposition of the forces there, that is, what does ughledar give to the russians? but we are not what we say behind the scenes, well, as for the ugledar itself, the ugledar is just what we do... uh, well, let's put it this way, it's not the one that goes out into the operational spaces, it moves further deep into our territory,

there are people like, well, let's say, performances that will allow the enemy to develop success later, well, the most important thing is that we are withdrawing, and retreating troops - this is exactly the same story once upon a time, when we were leaving avdiivka, and there on, let's say, military... it is very simple and easy to attack a retreating enemy if you are not ready communications, if you do not have a ready-made defense behind you, where troops are already standing, not those who are retreating, who are in a bad moral and psychological state, who have been battered by battles there, and it is very difficult for them to get hold of even ready-made fortifications, it is necessary to someone stood and held, if there is no such thing, then the enemy can squeeze you and in this way you can lose more territories. therefore, i hope that everything will end there with the withdrawal from

the city itself, then in our country they will occupy the lines that are prepared there and will continue to hold defense, because if it is difficult to say, and i will say from a military point of view, if we proceed from the principle that we withdraw so that there are no losses, then in general we need to withdraw everywhere, we need to fight, we need to hold our territory, inflict on the enemy .. losses and to prevent things, when we enter a semi-encirclement and become endangered, to prevent this, then it will be possible to fight, of course, in war, not everything is there, not everything always works out, but you need to get to it, you need to go to it. mr. colonel, two months, that's it it has been almost two months since the armed forces of ukraine have been in the kursk region, i know that the fighters you are fighting with, some of the fighters are also in the kursk region. what do your brothers say about the situation in the russian federation? of course,

the situation there has changed compared to when we entered there, and now the enemy has already brought forces there, quite such serious forces, and he already has more than 40 thousand there, when at the beginning there were practically, well, let's say, small he had no strength, no one was there, and so were we they could advance and leave the enemy in their... behind, then they took him away. now the situation is more complicated, the enemy, in addition to holding the defense, is still trying to win back in some directions, and there is such a maneuverable war, there are not even rest lines of defense, a maneuverable war, which now both we, with our own forces, and the enemy, are trying with the help of maneuvers to create a situation where someone than with the help of a better maneuver he will be in a winning situation, we can see this

in the direction of the river, which is the river from the head my river che da fell through the river seim, where the enemy is now trying to keep his troops and beds of fontoni crossings by constantly supporting them, unfortunately he succeeds in this, but we break them, but with all truths and lies they put these crossings. we are trying to cut off from the offensive on lyubimivka, and, let's say, such a maneuverable war, advantages, to say that someone there has 100% of us due to the fact that we wedged so much of their territory and now we are conducting combat operations there, there is no such thing activity precisely in the offensive in us, as was, but we still have the initiative in some areas. mr. colonel, i wanted to ask you about the situation, which consists of mobilization and... not only on the territory of ukraine, because the ministry of defense of ukraine announced

that it opened the first recruiting center in polish lublin, and this center is already starting to work there, and it is operating there military medical commission, but, as the polish minister of defense, władysław kosyniak kamysh, says, among ukrainians abroad , there are still not enough people willing to form a ukrainian legion. let's hear what he is said we are responsible for recruiting, we are responsible for training and training, we are ready for this training, but the number of people. which were supposed to be called from the ukrainian side, there were not enough ukrainian declarations, the ukrainian declarations at the beginning were very high, that even one brigade could be formed, that is, several thousand people, but this did not happen. mr. colonel, how do you currently assess the pace of mobilization for the armed forces, and this idea of ​​creating

ukrainian legions at the expense of conscripted men who are in... poland and other western european countries? well, if we are talking about europe, then we should use all the opportunities, but i do not expect that there will be a strong pace of mobilization there, of course we should count only on our internal processes where we can at least influence something, there, unfortunately, we can't influence anything, that's why it's at the expense of volunteers, and we see that those who left have already shown their attitude and, especially there, they have no desire to return, that's why it's so possible for those people, who will want there to join, but let it be, with regard to our mobilization, well, it is going, and i already said that recently the pace of mobilization has decreased, and in particular, well, now we see that even the ministry of defense and

the general staff are looking for mechanisms there, in order to somehow improve it, in what... including the right was given to commanders so that they could directly enroll servicemen without tsk, now this story has already begun and it will work, so of course you need to use all opportunities, this is also motivation , recruiting, mobilization so that we have people in our troops, we have people in the army, if we don't come up with recruiting. directly, separately, all the same , mobilization will remain the basis of our army, because we see that the state is not ready to allocate money for motivation, there is none, to pay high sums to all military personnel there, as it is even done there in the russian federation, so here only you have to look for it, i don't know what, what

opportunities, for example, i once offered... and they didn't listen to it, but i continue to talk about it, even when we are talking about motivation, about the lack of funds for those currently conscripted, what do we have, so that you understand, even when we now accept the budget, 80% of the funds go to the maintenance of the army, to military personnel, to salaries, then yes, we don't have missiles, we don't have combat. passports, we don't have, let's say, enough ammunition, but we, let's say, we pay the funds, that's right, soldiers, get it, it's not about the soldiers, it's about regulation, and when they told me that look, there are no funds, when i said, let's be motivated raise people, and for the fact that they enter, for the fact that they sign contracts, there are no funds, i offered a story

about deposits, let's even give it here. that it was removed, i say, let's not remove it, for example, for a military serviceman who is serving, we open a deposit where these 30 00 e will go, and after the war we will be able to give them there, a person will be able to use it for housing there, for the children's education there, well, for everything she needs there in smart ee, let's say it, ee edges, eh, and then, they say, how to give later, well, this also a question, for example, we have a million serving there, let it be one and a half by the end of the war, well, two, and there are another 40 million people, and well, i don’t know, let’s say, let’s raise the tax on exactly these people, these 40 million, who will pay a little more and giving funds to those who went to fight instead of those who didn't, this is a mechanism, maybe it's not popular, maybe it sounds a bit wrong at first, but let's

talk about the fact that when we have live money, let's invest it to victory, but with the defenders... we will deal with it, then we will be grateful to them to the end and give them the same the opportunity to later give these funds, now the main thing is victory, and all efforts should be devoted to this, and this is my point of view, but i am certainly not in favor of taking the funds, it is necessary to think over the mechanisms and speak, communicate them to defenders and society . against this background, mr. colonel, the national security and defense council determined the main parameters of the defense budget for... 2025, and it is about the fact that no less than 26.3% of gdp will be spent on defense, and in terms of money it is more. hryvnias for comparison before the start of a full-scale war the national security council demanded to allocate at least 5% of the planned gdp for defense, i.e.

five times more. zelenskyi says that ukraine is starting to increase the production of its own weapons, in the first half of this year ukraine produced 25 times more ammunition for artillery and mortars than in the entire 22nd year and more. this is the production of other types of weapons, let’s listen to what zelensky said, and the total number of drones that we are currently able to produce annually in ukraine is 4 million, and already more than 1.5 million are contracted, and we are already using them absolutely a new class of ukrainian weapons, a long-range missile, a drone, a clearing, personnel, i have already said, a million shares for maintenance, this is for nine months, but now, if we have time... in that year they said that they thought that the war will end inside there, that's why they didn't add, so now it's for nine months and then due to the defense there will be no money for wages, and

now there is a budget deficit of about 400 billion, and that's how we plan now, we're 23%, that's all exactly we have a deficit, because both the armed forces are planning to expand and other defense forces are recruited, mobilization is underway, it is necessary to maintain, and that is natural. requires large investments, regarding weapons, well, of course there is a missile program, the one that the president is talking about, and when he talks about successful exams, of course, i would like to be more successful, a little, further regarding the weapons that are produced in ukraine, well, weapons are produced, yes it was more than there was, but for me, well, here you can contribute in different ways, there it is given and produced, yes, there you can buy some different components somewhere and assemble them in ukraine, say, we produce weapons, or you can produce them there from the very beginning explosives, gunpowder, and this is a different production, and

here looking at what kind of production we are talking about, for me the production of weapons is a complete cycle, it is when we, i don’t know, produced nitric acid ourselves there, when we made tnt or hexagen from it there or something else, then it's hexagen, we phlegmatized it there, then poured it into shells. we made fire chains there, which will be in the detonators, for me this is of course a story about a complete cycle, and we are doing something, we are putting something together, but we need to go to the point that more, well, of course it is more than it was once, and it is necessary to build up, of course, we have weapons on the battlefield, but of course there are not enough weapons at all, not from those provided by our partners, not from those that we produce, so we need to do more and pay attention to... precisely for full cycles of weapons production, and not for their assembly. thank you, colonel, for the conversation, this was roman kostenko, people's deputy of ukraine, colonel of the security service

of ukraine. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who is currently watching us live on these platforms, please subscribe to our pages, take part in our survey. today we ask you about this. should zelensky publicize his victory plan? which he presented last week in the united states of america, so everything is quite simple on youtube, yes, no, if you have a separate one, please leave it in the comments below this video. if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote for the numbers. if yes, then 0800-211381, no, 08021382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program, we will match. the results of this vote. next, we have oleksandr kovalenko, a military-political observer of the information resistance group, at zsko. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, thank you for joining

the broadcast today. good evening. indeed, good evening and good news from the voronitsa region of russia arrived today. the defense forces struck with drones at the borys glebsk airfield in the voronezh region and. there were guided aerial bombs, there were su-35 and su-34 planes, and also aviation fuel storage sites, do you know about the consequences of this attack, what we got as a result of it, well, and most importantly, how the russians react to it, because just a week ago, putin said that when changing the concept of nuclear deterrence, they made a point that if drones fly into their territory from a foreign country, they will use nuclear weapons

, including. well, regarding the direct attack on this given object, there is not much information now, it is known that there was a fire, and at the same time , this fire was verified in several locations, i think that in the near future the first satellite images of the airfield itself will appear, and because always after such strikes, verification takes place with the help of... a satellite, to keep something secret, there is no such possibility now in russia, ah, in order not to allow satellites to film this or that moment, and as for the general threat from putin, and the war criminal, then everything is quite simple here, he is now using this element of nuclear blackmail, as before, in order to intimidate both ukrainians and our partners, that is, it is

a classic. and this is the only instrument they now have to threaten the world, they can no longer threaten the world with their army, which is somehow invincible, invincible and all that, they cannot threaten the world with unparalleled weapons, which we see being destroyed in ukraine, and geopolitically they also do not have the same reputation and influence now as they did before the full-scale invasion of ukraine, and economic... factors also have an effect, so there is only one element of threats and blackmail, this is nuclear weapons, but again, this is exclusively an informational and psychological context in this, let's say, new nuclear doctrine that they are now considering, something more fundamental, then really presenting a real threat in this i do not see and do not i think that in reality

at least one of these new ones will be used... against this background, the russians are continuing their offensive in donbas and it has already been officially announced that the armed forces of ukraine have withdrawn from ughledar, the evacuation of wounded soldiers from ughledar was difficult, but the withdrawal from the city allowed to minimize losses, the press officer of the 72nd separate mechanized brigade of the black zaporizhzhya armed forces, arseniy prylipka, said on radio svoboda. let's hear what he said. of course, this is a war, there cannot be without losses, but due to the fact that we moved to another frontier and occupied it, we minimized them as much as possible, because it would be critical to hold the city further.

it is difficult for our units and we would have suffered more losses. mr. oleksandr, how will the withdrawal of the armed forces from ugledar affect the front and the russians' possibilities for further deployment hostilities side by side in pokrovsk, well, with a perspective in the zaporozhye direction. first of all, he will have more influence on the kurakhovsky direction. and why is it already felt, because ughledar has been the epicenter of the use of kabs by the russians for the past two weeks, and by the way, this is one of the reasons why it was impossible to keep ughledar on the defensive, why it was impossible to keep it under the control of the defense forces of ukraine, because the city was simply destroyed by non-stop corrected aerial bombs, it was the epicenter of the use of cabs compared to... and this

happened against