you know the facts of corruption in the judicial system, or you want to report an unscrupulous judge who makes illegal decisions, write to me on facebook or to the e- mail address you see on the screen. it 's all good, we'll meet in exactly one week. exclusively on the air of our channel. congratulations , friends, the politclub program is on the air on the espresso tv channel. the most relevant topics of the week: nato member countries have huge arsenals. russia is already on the verge of exhausting its resources. topics that resonate in our society. this is the question of trump's victory is it so analysis of processes that change the country

and each of us. what else can the russians do, are they able to use, let's say, the resources of the lukashenko army allied with them, vitaly portnikov and the guests of the project, have read everything, accept my union, i thank you, it was difficult, i was just interested, but this is absolutely did not eat, help understand the present and predict the future, offered the united states to conclude bilateral security with us. a project for those who care and think about the political club every sunday 20:00 for espresso. ukrainian military intelligence reported the details of another operation to destroy a pro-russian collaborator, but did not

take responsibility, as before... but such operations are becoming more and more, which is evidence of whether there is competition between ukrainian special services for assassinations of pro-russian collaborators. we talk about this in the second part of the program, and we start with a conversation about why nato countries do not want to help ukraine shoot down russian missiles. this is svoboda live, my name is sashko shevchenko, we are starting. in the pentagon oppose nato forces shooting down russian drones and...missiles over ukraine, as it could draw the us into war. thus, pentagon spokeswoman sabrina singh responded to volodymyr zelenskyi's call to help ukraine shoot down russian missiles. the day before, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy at a press conference with nato secretary general mark rutte said that the downing of iranian missiles in israel and the downing of iranian drones and russian missiles in ukraine are no different, and that is why, according to him , ukraine expects from its partners. on

discussion of this issue. however, the pentagon believes that these are different situations. let's listen to the direct speech. we are talking about two very different landscapes and battlefields. the president of the united states at the very beginning, when russia invaded ukraine, directed this agency to provide ukraine with what it needs on the battlefield. they have been very successful using air defenses or other capabilities to continue to take back their territory. the idea that nato could join the defense of ukrainian skies, at least in the regions bordering the countries of the alliance, is not new, but nato still does not have a common decision about it. at the same time, it is the ukrainian authorities that have recently begun to call for this more actively, in particular due to the fact that such a mechanism of joint shooting down of missiles was recently used during iran's attack on israel. in an evening video message, president zelenskyy emphasized that right now , before the onset of winter, real progress in

the issue of joint shooting down of russian drones and missiles is particularly important. what works in the sky of the middle east and helps the defense of israel can work in our sky parts of europe, in ukraine, as well, helping to save lives. there are special technical solutions, there are quite effective tactics. today we talked, in particular, about this with mark ryuta. we will continue to convince all partners that it is necessary to implement what is necessary for effective protection of the sky. well, now let's try to figure it out: nato's participation in the defense of the ukrainian sky is a matter of time, or is this a red line that the alliance will never cross. we will talk about this further. we are in touch with serhiy krivonos, major general of the armed forces reserve and former deputy secretary of the national security council. good evening. good evening, greetings to all. glory to ukraine. kudos to the heroes,

thank you for joining our broadcast. so, let's discuss what the pentagon spokeswoman said, and she says that if nato starts shooting down russian drones, she understands that it will drag nato into a war, but really, what is the difference between shooting down iranian missiles in the middle east and shooting down russian missiles in the sky of ukraine? well, as far as technical content is concerned , there is absolutely no difference, and as far as political decision-making is concerned, there are still many questions, which require additional work on the part of our diplomats, on the part of our politicians, you said that there is a red line that cannot be crossed, yet... there were red lines for the allocation of certain types of weapons, which we did not even think that it could to be granted to us, in reality it exists, therefore we must continue active work, find those arguments that

would be argued directly in favor of supporting ukraine, but as for the position of the united states, they will suffice for now. careful about practical ones, practical participation, first of all, now is the election, and any party that is fighting now, both republicans and democrats are trying to use any actions and even statements of their opponents for their own benefit, so everything is quite calm and clear here, why aren't the americans saying anything now. we are waiting directly for the race, there is a little more than a month left, then maybe the situation will be changed when we will understand who will be the president of the united states. and you think that really, when the elections are over and there will be results from

the biden administration, depending on whether he hands over power to a republican opponent or actually to his own vice presidency, you expect that there may be dry, so to this policy. and also in the policy of probably allowing strikes deep into the territory of the russian federation? well, in general, as far as the depths of the territory of the russian federation are concerned, i would not raise this issue at all from our side. first of all, purely from a military point of view, we perfectly understand that the russians during this time, while all this was discussed, in the general information spacious, everything that can be pulled back has already been pulled out, this is the first, second, we have our forces-means that allow us to strike the greatest depth, two. thirdly, the amount of resources that were planned to be provided to us and will be provided to us, it is not such, you know, a huge share, so this is purely a political conversation for now, and not practical actions, they certainly do not bring any changes in the conduct of this war, so it is

simpler, for now, that's all talk, we already have enough of our own forces and means, which could , with the correct organization of production and proper organization. in planning to strike deep into russian territory at significantly greater distances and with no less effectiveness, here the question is sociopolitical, yes or no, and if there is nothing to strike at, because everything has been removed, everything that can be removed, then what is the point of talking about it? let's actually return to the question of using nato air defense systems, in order to help relieve the air defense of ukraine, or actually help shoot down those russian targets that... are in the border areas of both ukraine and nato member countries. here often when they talk about it, and they compare it with israel, they talk about simply different territories, how much bigger is the territory of ukraine in reality, how much easier it is to close the sky over israel in this context, do you agree with

these comparisons, or are there any other purely technical aspects that should be considered? well, including a purely technical one, of course, to compare israel, which is slightly larger than the kyiv region. and to compare the territory of ukraine, it is absolutely unrealistic, this is the first, second, you should pay attention that nato does not want to present its the trump card, as they consider themselves, which they have directly in their pocket, which they say, is the repulsion of the russian invasion, but the su has already left, look, the same estonia has already raised the issue of the possible participation of servicemen of the estonian army to perform non-combat missions on the territory of ukraine, and not... this includes air defense inside the territory of ukraine, so in principle, you see, the summer has already moved, and the ice has moved, and maybe there will be some changes directly, because we perfectly understand what is best phrases that

can be used by any nato country, that mine, our guys, as you can say, our soldiers, have passed the test in the war with the most powerful, one of the largest armies of the world from the russian federation, it is also worth a lot, but no one wants, you know, take care, that's why politicians, they always try and ratings. to preserve and achieve some interests, step by step we are going in the right direction, diplomats and politicians must continue this activity, our military must share their experience with our partners who support us, that concerns the fight against the russian air force, and what, if you could advise the diplomats of ukraine, should you use arguments here, taking into account the fact that the risk here is really, what... there is escalation, yes against a nuclear state, against russia, so to speak there about iranian missiles, there is still

no clear understanding whether nuclear weapons are ready and exist in iran, but whether it is ready to use them, even if it exists, but russia nevertheless has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, i.e. what here, that is an unprecedented story turns out, what arguments can really be given here, well, arguments in their time, which were given under the... armed forces of ukraine at the beginning of the great war, when our military dismantled the downed missiles of the russians, and in the form of certain documents submitted information on countries, which supplied components to russian missiles, including a large number of nato countries, which supplied it to russia through second or third countries, this is also an argument that can be used, i do not understand why it is not used at the moment until... at one time it played quite well in the 22nd year, did they forget about it in

the 24th? as for air defense issues in general, well, we raise the question of accepting their participation, but we still need to raise the question, what exactly can we do to raise the level of such greater activity, greater density of our air defense, because we cannot stop... it is impossible, because the number of aerial objects launched in our direction by the enemy, including missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles, is increasing, that is why we must increase our capabilities, that is why it is necessary to go along parallel paths to ask and, let's say, to prove to our partners about help, and similarly, we do not need to do much ourselves. and here we are talking exclusively about density in order to increase efficiency, so shooting down missiles. is it also about some possibility to release these resources to perform some other tasks?

well, what other tasks, in addition to shooting down enemy aircraft, can bleed out anti-aircraft defense, here the question is, what is it possible to move closer to the front, because there is also an absolute lack of space on the front that's right, and a lot of things need to be covered at the front, and unfortunately, so far in the front-line lane, the enemy has enough... er such a strong advantage in the air, so it wouldn't hurt us to have a certain amount of forces if they are freed by help nato, transferred to the front line, improved the situation in our favor. well, let's talk about the situation at the front. after the capture of ughledar, the russian offensive will probably reach its climax in the near future, at least this is what the analysts of the institute for the study of war in your opinion, is the russian offensive potential really running out, or are there any signs of this? i would not hurry with questions

of attrition, because the russians will try to press, we have such a significant date in quotation marks ahead of us, which concerns putin's birthday, and this is in his sloppy nature, damn it, spit in the soul of the ukrainian people and give the command to powerful missiles will strike in the near future, it will definitely happen, it must be understood. the next question... as for the amount of power tools that they throw around quite skillfully in different parts of the front, it must be understood that they will try to press and feel the weakness in other places. if our people's deputies had written even less posts about rotations in certain areas, the situation might have been better, but the issue is not the ability of the russians to advance, they have these abilities, unfortunately, the issue is our... opportunities to do homework on mistakes and to improve the situation related to the preparation

of the population to fulfill the constitutional duty to protect ukraine - once, twice, by improving the work of the defense-industrial complex of ukraine - two, the third - skillful and high-quality processing of fortifications on the territory of ukraine - three, and the most important thing - the correct organization of personnel policy related to the training of people. training people already for leadership positions, starting from sergeant and ending with general. how can you comment on the withdrawal of the armed forces of ukraine from ugledar. wasn't he late, as journalists write about it with reference to the direct participants in the city's defense, who they say that it was allegedly a decision made late, the question is whether it is late or not, the question is whether there were human losses and losses in people and equipment, this is the greatest assessment of the correctness

of the decisions made, and the following must be understood that for us... the greater value is human life, that's how many people we lost, as a result, if it was earlier, later, now we can't rewind it, the most important thing is that the brigade that performed this task left, and the brigade is still able to perform tasks, now task no one about strengthening this brigade with new resources, new reserves, thank you very much, we were contacted by serhiy krivonos, major general of the reserve of the armed forces of ukraine, as well as deputy secretary of the national security and defense council of ukraine in 2019-2020, we talked actually about nato's ability to help ukraine close ukrainian skies. well, in the meantime , a car exploded in energodar, in which was the so-called head of security at the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant occupied by russian troops. in reported gur no

the involvement of ukraine in the attempt is confirmed, but it is indicated that the explosion of andrii's car. it happened briefly on the morning of october 4. gur was informed that korotky was a collaborator involved in war crimes and repression of ukrainians during the occupation. end of quote. after the seizure of zaporizhzhya jsc, he voluntarily cooperated with russian troops, gave them lists of employees of the station with their personal data, pointing out citizens with a pro-ukrainian position. korotky also took part in repressions against the personnel of the as. in intelligence added that korotky was also in charge. attacks on the russian-controlled council of deputies. the administration of the russian-controlled nuclear plant accused ukraine of murdering korotky, and the russian investigative committee opened a criminal case for attempted murder. well, but attempts against those whom ukraine considers to be collaborators are no longer rare, especially during a major war. anastasia potapenko collected the statistics

of attempts and the chronology of the most famous cases. this is a gift of energy. on the morning of october 4, the so-called boss was in the car that exploded guard of the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant andriy korotkyi, involved in the repression of ukrainians in the occupied military base. the video was published by the main intelligence agency of ukraine, where it was reported that after the capture of the korotkyi station, they voluntarily cooperated with the russian occupation authorities, handing them lists of employees with their personal data, indicating those who adhered to the pro-ukrainian position. in addition, he participated in personnel repression and war crimes against the civilian population of temporarily occupied energodar, and two days earlier in occupied berdyansk, a car carrying vitaly lomeiko, a judge of the chernihiv district court of the zaporizhia region, who agreed to cooperate with the russian occupation authorities, exploded. this was reported by the main directorate of intelligence

of ukraine. lomeiko died as a result of the explosion. he was also involved in repressions against ukrainians in the occupied territories. and committing war crimes. in total, since the beginning of russia's full-scale invasion of ukraine , more than 100 attempts have been made on collaborators, as a result of which they died or were injured. this fall alone , more than a dozen assassination attempts were carried out on those considered to be collaborators in ukraine. and in general, this year, attempts were made against three dozen people who switched to the side of russia. in particular, at the beginning of 2024 in the occupied lysychansk in the luhansk region, as a result. oleksiy poteleschenko, who headed the so-called ministry of emergency situations of the luhansk people's republic, was killed in the shelling of the bakery. he was a former employee of the ukrainian ministry of emergency situations and the state emergency service in luhansk region, he transferred after the occupation on the side of russia. a criminal case was opened against him in ukraine, but the most high-profile deaths of collaborators occurred in the first

year of the full-scale invasion. thus, in 2022 , oleksiy was found dead in his house in a bare dock. he was killed by a shot in the head. kovalev was a deputy of the verkhovna rada of ukraine from the servant of the people party, but after the russian occupation of kherson region, he switched to the side of the russian government. he was accused of collaborationism and supporting the holding of the so-called referendum on the accession of part of the kherson region to russia. also, in november 2022, under mysterious circumstances, kyrylo strymousov died in a car accident. he used to be a pro-ukrainian activist, but after the occupation. kherson oblast joined the russian administration as deputy head of the occupation authorities of kherson oblast. strymousov actively cooperated with russia and contributed to the spread of its propaganda. it is worth noting that just a few hours after the announcement of his death, the commander of russian troops in ukraine serhiy surovkin announced the withdrawal of troops from kherson. on the background of the wave

attempts on collaborators, which began with the beginning of a full-scale invasion, resistance to the russian authorities is noticeable not only in ukraine, but in russia itself. moreover, not only attempts are carried out, but also acts against law enforcement agencies. so, on october 4 , the building of the regional office of the federal security service was set on fire in novosibirsk. rf, a flammable mixture was thrown into a broken window. this was reported by the main directorate of intelligence of ukraine. according to gur, similar cases inside russia have become more frequent, as more and more citizens are ready to take desperate steps against the regime in kremlin. the local authorities of novosibirsk, as well as the governor of the novosibirsk region, did not comment on the incident regarding the arson of the fsb building. anastasia potapenko, radio liberty. such special operations for the elimination of those who went to... cooperation with the occupiers seem to have become more frequent, at least such an impression can be made from how often we learn about such cases from gur himself, and whether this is really the case and what goals

ukraine can set for itself carrying out such operations? that's what we're talking about, then viktor yagun, major general of the security service reserve, will be in touch with us of ukraine and deputy head of the sbu in 2014-2015 . good evening. good health. let's start with the fact that these are mostly such attempts. are aimed at eliminating the co-conspirators who cooperated with russia, but is this more of an attempt to punish, or is it also an attempt to deter and intimidate others, what are the goals here? look, there are two points here, there is a legal point and a moral-psychological point, so from the legal point of view, as far as i know, ukraine has not taken responsibility for any such case, it's just that karma flew in like this, you know? this way as far as i understand, when the sbu commented on the murder of ilya kiva in moscow, it seems, if i'm not mistaken, then they took responsibility, or maybe, but they could be wrong, you have to check, this is a problem

of the security services, because if they really did it , then they made a big mistake, i will explain to you why, because the person was convicted by the ukrainian court, well, obviously not to death, so the security service may have just commented, and i know this situation, they... really said that they were collaborators, that you need to be more careful where you live and where you are you are, but you definitely did not take responsibility, legal, everything else is moral and psychological, and you quite rightly noted that everything that concerns collaborators, if we do not even achieve our goal in all cases, but only in individual cases , well, they are a moral and psychological mood in theirs. the environment, quite perceptibly, perceptibly, falls. mr. viktor, is my

impression correct that such special operations have recently become more frequent and that there was such an active phase in 2002, 2022, and as if now recovered again, does it seem to me, no, i think it seems, because we simply did not focus on some cases, this is one time, secondly, well... well, people, people wanted some kind of ukrainian massad, although people are not satisfied, well, i don’t know, everyone said that they understood very well what the massad is and why it should be ukrainian, because the massad is a foreign intelligence service, we have had such a structure since 2004, which is exactly what our population wanted, our population wanted retribution, how does it happen, you know, or this private individuals or? this is money for non -taxpayers and some benefactors, or it could be a criminal showdown, it could still be, but i emphasize once again that i would

highlight a legal point in all these moments and clearly say that ukraine as a state definitely has nothing to do with this relationship, another matter, when the occupiers are punished directly in the occupied territories, yes, there is this, there is this... of course, they, we did not call them here, the war is going on, their stay in these or other, so-called positions, which they painted for themselves on our territories, fraught with some such consequences, but again, from a legal point of view, if we are talking about citizens of ukraine who are on the territory of ukraine, occupied, and really went over to the side of russia, began to occupy some positions there, this is legitimate from the point of view of the law military purpose, do i understand correctly? well, you have to think here, you know, because if, if, if hostilities were going on, and a citizen of ukraine picked up a weapon, or...

went to that other position that involves helping the enemy, well, i don't know, there, for example, a military medic, yes, it doesn’t seem to involve weapons, but he is in the line of fire, well, who will protect him, no one will protect him, therefore, the citizenship of ukraine is in the ranks of the occupiers, it definitely does not give him immunity, but i am just using the opportunity, i want for our viewers, we should also remind you that when it came to... er, i am quoting the liquidation of ili kiva here, the sbu did not officially inform about it, but it was confirmed to many media, their sources in the sbu, and to many media, which actually are respected in ukraine, so there is, there is, there is reason to think that it is indeed, the sbu was behind this, behind this operation, but indeed i will also emphasize that there was no official confirmation of this from the sbu, in this context, indeed, you said that even

if it seems that this... cases have become more frequent, it is possible due to the fact that we did not draw attention to this, but why, that is, do you not see in the communication of the ukrainian special services, in particular guru and the sbu, that they somehow emphasize this importance at a certain time, perhaps this indicates that a bad information among the same collaborators as their colleagues, so to speak well, they have such risks, i don't think so, i think that most likely i'll just change them. in certain operations, and er, you know, activation in certain directions, this is all probably only related to this, that is, we, we simply see what is there, for example, the southern direction, and there or activation of actions in er somewhere in the east, maybe in such a case, and

yes, you know, i think that... the work is being carried out in a planned and quite powerful manner, primarily by our er-er resistance forces, and it is difficult to predict certain liquidations, well, i think so, don't you? you observe such competition between the security service of ukraine and gur when it comes to such attacks on collaborators, earlier on our air you said that there is obviously such a competition with... between them regarding the impression of targets in russia with the help of drones, but in this matter there is also, there is also competition, in your opinion? well, probably, you can probably call it that informally, but i think that everyone is doing one thing, and everyone, everyone is working in the same direction, and who, who has, where are the sources, who has opportunities, capabilities, if there is a need, you know what it was like now task of a powerful strike on one of

the airfields. then no one there calculated who has which drones and who heads which unit, and the security service, if i am not mistaken, the naval forces, all all efforts were directed in one direction, and it achieved its result, so if there is a need to join forces, then i think that no one will compete there, everyone will cooperate in that regard, because there are critical... points that need to be pressured, and there, for example, there is information that the , the enemy became more active in one way or another direction, maybe repressions of some kind, maybe something there is focusing attention on something, and it is simply necessary somewhere, some layer of collaborators or occupiers to be warned by such

actions, i... think that even this is the case that happened in the moscow suburbs with the manager one of the training centers for uavs, i think that this is just one of those, the case when, when it was necessary to simply show that we have the capabilities and we can get everyone, but are there any differences in such attempts on collaborators on occupied... by russia the territory of ukraine and attempts were made on the territory itself russia from the point of view of the law? undoubtedly, because in russia there is a very strict, counterintelligence regime, and it is practically impossible to use, for example, the opportunities of ukrainian citizens. it will all be calculated, they will be supplied, they will be supplied.