in our country, which was solved by the russian federation, and in general, of course, we will talk about all the issues that concern russia as well, the provision of russia and so on and the like, so the first question, probably, is about how russia is advancing in general , we observe every day that in fact there is an ugledar, a few days ago, the pokrovsky direction, so today the deep state maps publish information about another advance in the kupyan direction, that is, already directly in the kharkiv region, there are other directions, there is the direction of the time ravine , which maybe now they are less expressive, but the general trend is quite clear, mr. vitaly, what we said in our past programs, russia is gradually, but moving, well, here too it is worth adding... also

information related to what firstly, mobilization in russia continues, russia plans to recruit another quarter of a million contract soldiers into the army in order to, in fact, make up for its losses that have occurred recently, and of course no one canceled the autumn draft, that is, russia continues to fight, and this is a fact . mr. vitaly, here are these trends... which we are currently seeing at the front, which we are seeing, in particular, in the russian political and military space, and in particular, in addition to this, the fact that for next year , in the draft budget, russia is setting about 40% of all expenditures specifically for military needs, on your army and on everything related to the provision of the army, this whole complex of context, how do you evaluate it and what does it indicate? well, we really talked about it many times. i said that the only way to

end the russian-ukrainian war is not some negotiations, it's not some ultimatums, these are not some international forums, everything is very simple: either the russian army stops or it advances, the russian army can only be stopped, as we understand, by resisting this army and reducing its military economic potential. that is, this is what our troops are doing at the front, when we destroy russian military arsenals, when we destroy russian oil depots, when we say that russia should feel the impact not only of drones, but also of western missiles, that is all these are steps to stop, one time, another, no no illusions are needed, what you listed seems to me to be an obvious answer to this question, that putin wants to advance exclusively in the territory. which he declared to be part of

the russian federation. kupin is part of the russian federation, as far as i remember. from the russian point of view, the kharkiv region continues to be part of ukraine. and why? and because there was a famous operation in 2022. when the russians lost kupyansk. you remember that it was already the temporary center of the kharkiv region. the occupied, which they were going to do, than the kharkiv region of the russian federation. that is, navi'. that they are advancing there, they want to seize a certain territorial bridgehead there in 2025 , hold a referendum and announce that the kharkiv region is also part of the russian federation, and after that demand that ukrainian troops leave not only the zaporizhia, kherson, donetsk, and luhansk regions of ukraine, but also and kharkiv, let's say, and this is the logic of this war, which you simply need to understand: the russians will... advance

wherever they can, the russians will make decisions about the annexation of ukrainian regions, and the russians will create such a negotiating position for themselves that, in their opinion , will help them in principle, even if they fail to occupy all of ukraine, to annex to russia that part of its territory that is part of the new russia project, by the way.. it is worth reminding that this was a plan, it is simply carried out in a different way, in february 2022, what was the idea of ​​the blitzkrieg, a puppet government is created in kyiv, and as putin said then, we will ensure the self-determination of all the peoples of ukraine, what kind of people are these, i always wanted to ask what kind in ukraine, such peoples, if the vast majority of the population here are ethnic. and i will tell you

what the peoples of kharkiv oblast, zaporozhye oblast, kherson oblast and so on are, so this government is headed by viktor yanukovych. and viktor medvedchuk should not have prevented the idea of ​​holding referendums in the eastern and southern regions of ukraine regarding their accession to the russian federation, on this territory that would remain with this government, this is how the government hung the times of the hitler occupation of france, just on a larger territory, there would be created a puppet into the ukrainian state as part of the union state of russia and belarus, just in this... there would already be donetsk, luhansk, kherson, zaporizhzhya, mykolaiv, odesa, kharkiv, oblasts, well, all their favorite southeast project, yes, still type of 2004, this is not, no, not a new history, a new

history, that is, they believe that ukraine can exist, that central ukraine should be part of the russian project of a union state on the one hand, and on the other hand. the authorities of central ukraine must keep the west, the western regions of ukraine in subjection, because they they themselves do not want to exercise control elements there, well, this is how marshal pétain, at the head of this vichy government, exercised control over this territory of france, which was left for this puppet french state, by the way, maybe you remember that at some point, i don't remember when it was in 1944. year, all the rest of the french territory was annexed to the state of owicha, pétain came to paris, he was welcomed there, but in fact all this was really hitler's occupation, simply formalized under independent france, which was already was almost completely excluded from those regions that the germans considered historically theirs, alsace and

so on, it was france, well , ukraine like hitler created france for pétain, ukraine putin was going to make for yanukovych, well... now that the blitzkrieg has failed, there is an impression in russia that they can achieve this goal through a multi-year war. that's all, that is, what could not be achieved in three days could be achieved in three weeks, what could not be achieved in three weeks could be achieved in three months, what cannot be achieved in three months can be achieved in three years, but in three years, when they fail, let's see how their priorities will change, that is, what they will say to themselves, what could not be achieved with... three years can be reached in 13 years , the development of events is also absolutely possible, or well, we have already taken what we took , we will fix it for the time being, or at least they will go to what they think is a temporary truce, a temporary truce, yes, well, basically, that's it, that's the logic of the moment, and i don't know why we

we are constantly surprised by their advancement, well , it seems as if we constantly think that they are ready to stop. war, but they want negotiations, they are exhausted, they will want negotiations when they are really exhausted, this is a possible option, again, i do not know in which year it will happen, i have already stated several times the conditions for this cessation of war, it is true when they stopped, when they cannot advance further, when their bombing of ukrainian territory does not lead to the results they expect, that is, before the population overflows, and that's when they in... lose a huge amount of money, but get nothing in return. these are the three main conditions. everything else, all these international forums, all these international condemnations, all these statements have no meaning at all. you have to understand that. we can in principle work from the perspective of

our diplomatic success. i have always said that i see no reason why we should not work. so we held a peace summit. this is an important instrument of international support for ukraine. does it have anything to do with the end of the war? no way, now china can hold its own summit of friends of peace, why? in order to knock out international support from volodymyr zelenskyi, transfer it to their side, to the side of russia by and large, and then they will count how many countries will gather at that alternative summit, where the host will no longer be volodymyr zelenskyi, but the conditional sidzenpin, and whether ukraine would like to participate in such a diplomatic one. forum, but it will still have nothing to do with the war, it will, if you like, it's just a game on a different field, but war is , relatively speaking, a real event where living people die, real cities are destroyed, the destinies of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people are destroyed, but this is

a computer mountain, people gather in the mountains, you can gather there in the mountains of switzerland, you can gather in the mountains of china, a beautiful hotel, exquisite. food, champagne, and in this situation, really serious problems are discussed, which these people cannot solve, are not able to solve, because they do not have a diploma. and generals decide when there is a war, not presidents, soldiers decide the future their countries, and the presidents can only either command this soldier, continue to fight as they are doing now, or decide that the war ends, that's only when the president decides that the war ends, only at that moment the initiative goes to them from the military, and when the presidents tell the army to fight, then they... the negs play a significant role in the course of the situation, there is no need to place great

hopes on them. volodymyr zelenskyi can travel around the world, meet with different presidents countries, to demand help, but everything depends not on him, but on the ukrainian army. what can vladimir putin demand that his army do? in three days, she took kyiv, that she took the whole of donbas, do you remember when he set this task back in 2022. but if the russian army cannot do this, vladimir putin, as well as... volodymyr zelenskyi is not a subject, but an object of this process, he can only give orders, and whether the military can carry out these orders or not, that depends on how they have to fight with each other by force, by force, where force works, politics and diplomacy without force, and here we go to another condition, to security guarantees, which i think we will talk about later, this is also a very important point, because if... what russia understands that it is opposed by a force greater than ukraine,

let's say, the north atlantic union is there, not just helping, not just providing weapons, but guaranteeing the security of ukrainian territory there, at least not covered by war, then this is also a political issue for the russian president even then , whether he wants to, in principle, direct to the conflict that may lead to prospects. a conflict between a nuclear state and a nuclear bloc, this is a completely different story, but it is also a very important story for our allies, if they give us security guarantees, are they ready for a potential conflict with a nuclear state, which could turn into the third world war with the use of nuclear component and the death of tens of millions of people in the course of the greatest drama in the history of mankind, when you and i perfectly understand, dear friends, that no one will mention the russian-ukrainian war and about the fate of ukraine against this sad background, and... february 24, 2022 will go down in the history of mankind, if there will be any

history of mankind at all, maybe not at all, as the firing of the starting gun, which put an end to the hopes of millions of people to live on earth some more time, which was set aside for this civilization, is certainly not eternal on this planet either, but we at least belong to those generations that were going to live here for a long time, and it may turn out that these hopes of ours are in vain, and that we are in principles of you are approaching the most interesting. and i would say a fascinating catastrophe in the history of mankind, which really no one will read about in history books anymore due to their possible absence, and so when we think about it, we understand what western politicians are afraid of and how it is nuclear blackmail putin is working, but i just showed you the mechanism of this blackmail, which, by the way, was used again this week, when they continued to talk about their nuclear doctrine there, how they will apply it, not apply it. well, although on the other hand we see as in fact the same piskov says that

no, strikes there by unmanned aerial vehicles, on the territory of russia or even there by missiles of ukrainian production, the fact that their warehouses explode, so that it has nothing to do with it, that is, as they say, a step forward, of course, this is a situation of strategic uncertainty, so that the west does not understand, after all, where and specifically. the condition where they are ready for it, maybe they are not ready for it at all, but they specifically create such a situation where the doctrine is, when it can be applied to be unclear. let's continue this whole discussion further, and we will also talk about these next attempts at peace, various plans, publications in the western media and the opinions of our foreign partners, after a short pause, a few. minutes and we 'll be back to saturday's political club live, don't switch, two hours

to learn about war and what the world is about, a project for the smart and the caring, in the evening on espresso. saturday political club, direct ether, we are back, and now we will discuss issues related to nato itself, the possible, possible membership of ukraine. in nato we will also discuss the issue of these next peace plans, which are discussed a lot and very often in the western press, and... we will start, of course, with a visit to kyiv, actually mark rutte, the new secretary general of nato, he arrived in ukraine and made several statements concerning, including, ukraine's possible membership in the north atlantic alliance. in particular, mr. ryute stated that

ukraine is closer to nato than ever before, also... mr. ryute also commented on the possibility of strikes on the territory of russia by the western weapons, and in particular, again, a large number of publications appeared in the foreign press, which relate to ukraine's possible membership in nato. here is the financial times, several articles appeared there, one today, some articles appeared during the previous days, in particular - one after another, it is written that nato is considering the so-called german model of ukraine's membership, that is, relatively speaking, we understand that this is part of the way the country can join the north atlantic alliance, including other statements, in particular, the former secretary general

nato, jen stoltenberg said that ukraine can become a member of nato, even... with the occupied territories, at least that was the statement, but in addition, let's pay attention to one article of the same edition of the financial times, which is being widely circulated today in e ukrainian, at least in the internet segment, which is actively discussed by ukrainians, in particular, i quote: western ukrainian officials decided that the basis for negotiations could be the essence of... security guarantees in exchange for russia's control over the occupied territories of ukraine, in particular, under these essential security guarantees , nato membership is considered, at least for that part of the country or those territories that are under the control of official kyiv. the publication also notes that this would be a tacit agreement that

these lands should be returned through diplomatic means in the future. must define a military defense border, agree not to deploy troops or nuclear weapons on a permanent basis on its territory, if it is not threatened with attack, well, this is one, some, relatively speaking, one spectrum of those articles that actually were in the foreign press, we will also talk about others, but let's at least discuss this array of material that we have now: ukraine in nato, about it... they began to actively talk about it again, and the second question, this is actually this so-called silent agree, by the way, i also want to add here that according to media sources, some who published a response, allegedly in the president's office, reacted to the article, one of the tv channels notes this, and about the supposed

security guarantees, er, again in the office of the president, supposedly... talk about what it is delusional, this is not true, there is no such conversation, no one in the west has officially and clearly offered such security guarantees to ukraine, which would certainly not allow the expansion or repetition of the war. well, these are the things, mr. vitaly, mr. rutte's arrival in kyiv, his opinion on nato, jens stoltenberg's opinion, and these articles in the western press, what are they about. testify on this so-called political and diplomatic track and whether today our western partners really consider the possibility that ukraine, at least in some perspective, or possibly within the framework of some formal or informal agreement, joins

nato, but without the actual occupied territories. well, look. i will discuss this story from 2022, not 2024, if you remember, i publicly talked about this in 2022, as a possible version of the development of events, and by the way, it was then that i said that the issue was being discussed, as it should to look like a zone that will not be covered by the guarantees of the fifth article, that is, ukraine is accepted there by donat in all of them is the territorial north, but here is the question of the fifth article. it approximately as with germany, it is true that germany believed that it had the right to all its territories, including the territory of the gdr, but the fifth article covered the territory only. well, the german democratic republic was a completely different state body, part of another defense union, as, say, happens with the occupied

territories of ukraine, to a certain extent. but, again, even then there were options that were discussed. one of the options was to provide a security guarantee along the contact line, another option was to provide a security guarantee without... with territories that are considered disputed between russia and ukraine, many people were offended at me at the time that i called these territories disputed, but from the point of view of the constitutional law of the two countries, whether we like it or not, these are disputed territories, it's just that russia destroyed international law, but this does not invalidate the fact of the dispute, the non-existent regions of the russian constitution are the donetsk, luhansk, kherson, zaporizhzhia regions and the republic of crimea and sevastopol. and even if we liberate these territories by military means, they will not go anywhere from the constitution of the russian federation, it will consider these territories occupied by

ukraine, it will consider that it should return these territories either politically or by military means, it will prepare for revenge, well, roughly like azerbaijan with nagorno-karabakh and its regions, which were the so-called security zone , of course, it was there that international law was on the side of azerbaijan. we will not even argue with this, i think, for a minute, but azerbaijan believed for a long time that it would be able to return these territories through political dialogue, but all this time it was preparing for a new war with for armenia to solve this issue by force, let's say, if we regained our territories in russia, and russia would leave these territories in the constitution, it would be necessary to understand that it is preparing for the moment when it can take these territories. by the way of a new war with ukraine, by the way, there is also an inverse moment, even if we do not liberate these territories, but continue

to consider them constitutionally ours, then russia in any case considers ukraine a potentially hostile state and a threat, that is, a country that claims these territories, which are registered in its constitution and which it has the right to legitimately take away by political or military means, and therefore, of course, first of all, russia will always demand from ukraine, from ukraine such constitutional changes that would remove from the constitution of ukraine, donetsk, luhansk, kherson, zaporizhzhia oblast, crimea and sevastopol, to date, and secondly, if this withdrawal does not happen, it will prepare for the destruction of the ukrainian state that resists such changes and for the creation of such a ukrainian state that will agree to constitutional changes, the fact that in principle, it was done in 2022, so to believe that there can be peace between russia and ukraine at all and that we will live to see it. real peace, when we will feel safe in our country, can only a person who does not realize the depth of the pit into which we have fallen thanks to

putin's aggressive actions, this time, the second time, now nato, the nto have always hoped and continue to hope , that putin would come to his senses and at least agree to freeze the war, er, along the contact line, they hoped for it in 2022 year, they... hoped for it in 2023 , i will finish in 2024, there is no sign of the end of the war, even on the horizon, money, billions are being spent, the european economy does not look happy, china's influence is increasing, the united states is in a difficult political situation with elections , everyone asks, well, what's next, and then the option arises, maybe they can be stopped in this way, say that we don't want to... interfere, but we will intervene, if you destroy the status quo, that's what you've achieved , we condemn it, it's bad, you

occupied ukrainian territory, you declared it yours, all this is terrible, but, but, we understand that we cannot solve anything here by force, and you must understand that you will not achieve anything... new either by force , so that you understand this for sure, we are announcing the euro-atlantic integration of ukraine, understand that ukraine is a cut off piece of land, that even if you fight for 10 years, you will not get it, well, maybe you don't need to fight for 10 years, maybe you will calm down, but in order for the russians to start thinking in this direction at all, we need some formula for ukraine's presence in nato, i.e. some explanation that if russia attacks ukraine, there will be cooperation'. the bloc's response, not what is happening now, when against a nation of 120 million that has practically put its entire economy on war rails, and a precedent that enjoys war as the best time of

its life. there is a state of 30 million people, whose citizens seek peace, unlike their neighbors on the other side of the border, who consider war the best state for russian statehood, as we understand it, and so in this situation, in this situation, you and i see that nato does not really realize how much risk it can take, that is, let's imagine this model, how it should look in principle, the nato summit is coming. in order for this to happen, there must be a nato summit. well, let's imagine fantastically that an extraordinary nato summit will take place before the end of the term of the presidency of biden. and this nato summit invites ukraine to nato. all allies agree with this. i don't really see how that can be done when we don't know the outcome of the us presidential election. and imagination the new american administration about it. but

let's imagine that... on november 5 , kamela harris wins, who agrees with this concept, okay, they have been invited, now the question is the following: in order for ukraine to become a full member of nato, it is necessary that the fifth article be extended to it, for in order for the fifth article to apply to it, the agreement on ukraine's accession to nato needs to be ratified by all parliaments of nato member countries, do you believe that the parliaments of countries such as turkey, hungary or slovakia will do it quickly. it can take years. it could take years, that's for sure. if sweden took two years, two, two. so how many will go to ukraine in such a situation? moreover, they will say that they are absolutely in favor. they just want to reach a political solution to the conflict in this situation, to reach an agreement between moscow and kyiv on a ceasefire, something like that. and

moscow will consider that if it is only somewhere... an intermediate option, this is when ukraine receives an invitation to nato, and separate parts nato, nato countries, let's say, the united states, great britain and france provide ukraine with security guarantees of the swedish and finnish type, but again, and we carefully studied the swedish guarantees, it is meant that if we say. waits for finland to join nato, and at this moment russia attacks it, so the russian division crosses the russian-finnish border and heads for helsinki. does this mean that the united states is participating in this war, or is it just helping finland? need to analyze it in the essence of the guarantee? so it is in ukraine and now they are helping, well, in fact, and not only the united states of america is helping,

dozens of countries are helping, that's right, that's why i'm asking. what will change in these guarantees, if there is a change, that yes, the united states provides guarantees to ukraine, and clearly for a specific territory, uh, or for a territory that is not in dispute, or for a territory along the contact line, then this is one story, by the way, as for ukraine to define a military border, so she defined the border, and the russians broke through somewhere in some other place tomorrow, what does this mean or what they didn’t will break through, because they definitely understand that this is a border and then it is a nato border, huh. so, now the next question arises for the americans and the british, so they, let's say, provided guarantees similar to the fifth article of nato until the moment when the fifth article begins to act in reality, and russia took and launched a missile, let's say the kharkov run, the following day, or even on the same day when it is signed, in the same city in which it is signed, someone has come to sign, there is a rocket bombardment, what does this

mean? what should the united states do? or they have to say: well, you know, well, it's not the same thing, well, then it's the bankruptcy of this whole idea, because what we announced, you 're with us, you're in nato, we invited you, but you 'll still be shelled, or the united states said: well, listen, you russians don’t respect us, we said that everything is nato territory, we defend this territory, the protocol process of ratification is just going on, where did you go, we destroy with our missiles from... there i don't know poland or germany, your launchers ladies, well, great, destroyed, and what will happen the next day, and there are guarantees that vladimir putin will not hit romstein there, let's say with his missiles, but we know that for sure, who guarantees it, who is the person who will say, you can hit russia, and she won't answer, there are problems with all of this, that is, i precisely adhere to this point of view, that if ukraine receives on...