on bombing, what does that mean? what should the united states do? or they have to say: well, you know, well, it's not the same thing, well, then it's the bankruptcy of this whole idea, because what we announced, you're with us, you're in nato, we invited you, but you'll still be fired upon , or the united states said, well , listen, you russians don't respect us, we said that this is all, this is nato territory, we are protecting these three, the protocol process of ratification is just going on, where have you gone, we are destroying ours. rockets from the territory there, i do not i know poland or germany, your launchers, ladies, well, great, they will destroy, but what will happen the next day, and there are guarantees that vladimir putin will not hit romstein there, say, with his missiles, but we know that for sure, who is it guarantees, who is the person who will say, you can hit russia, and she will not respond, that is the problem with all this, that is, i precisely adhere to this point of view, that if ukraine receives

a security guarantee on... controlled territory, the russians are will not shoot, because they also have no guarantee that america will not will shoot back in such a situation, they don't know it, they may not want to check it, they will continue to operate there within the framework of donetsk region or kherson region, i believe in that, but not to cross this line, which will be determined, uh, but i'm not the president of the united states, i can say that, it's my expert opinion, but i'm not responsible for these... millions of people who could die as a result, if i'm wrong, if they die, i'll just sit down at the computer and write a text called millions, disappeared from the face earth, i will think about metaphors, about how to describe all this so that it is interesting to read, about readers in the future who will be interested in my testimony of this disaster, if i myself survived, but the president of the united states, he is not for his own life only bears responsibility, and for the lives of all these millions of people, and he has to take risks. for the sake

of peace in europe, for the sake of ukraine, and the prime minister of great britain, too, and the president of france , too, primarily as the leader of the nuclear powers, what should they do in this situation? this is a difficult question, that is, we convince, as you can see, there is a whole group of people who make such statements, such as jen stolterberg, andesforce rasmussen, pavlo klimkin, i am simply listing for you the people who spoke about such a discussion. i can include myself in it, and we say, no, do not be afraid, it is not risky, but these people make such statements when they do not hold positions, it is an expert assessment of the situation when you are the head of state, you have a different level of responsibility, therefore i don't know, andrei, how it will all develop, you understand, but let's suppose if the president of the united the states of america are elected by donald... trump: in

this case, the architecture that you and i have just described is either possible or no longer possible. in principle, i do not think that donald trump will consider the country's accession to nato. that is, if trump becomes president, then, accordingly, such an idea, from the side of biden and without trump, may not go anywhere, you know? and just to exist as a theory. ugh. but if trump really becomes the president. well, what can i tell you, i say again, i don't really believe that this story will end like this with nato, because trump, as you know, is not a very big supporter of nato at all, this time trump can, and it is unlikely that he is a supporter of ukraine joining nato, at least according to the characteristic signs that he presents on well you saw that jd vance, he generally says that it is necessary to promise in russia. ukraine will not become a member

of nato, because from the point of view of jay divens, this is what really confuses russia, but jay divens has another idea, which i also consider completely illogical, which is that russia will have to be armed then ukraine then, yes, so that russia could not attack it, well, all this does not mean that russia has to agree to this either, here we always want to ask, and how we will put russia in front of the fact, how we will put... russia in front of the fact , and i have no answer to that question? if we, if we start from the point of view of this article about which i quoted from the financial times, well, it is true or not, if it is a controversial issue, but still, here is the language, i remind you once again, western ukrainian officials accepted decisions that can become the basis for negotiations material guarantees. security, mr. vitaly, from

the point of view of the ukrainian authorities, are the ukrainian authorities really ready for such a position, and how will they introduce this position... into ukrainian society, in any case there will be a certain split, that is, some people will believe that that in fact it is to leave these territories at will, and they already write about it after this article was published, others say, clap their hands, say, oh, great, finally the war will end, well, first of all, it is necessary to clearly understand, to leave these on the territory or not to leave, it is a no no no a situation when we advance somewhere, and we... are told to stop advancing and give this and that control over these territories to the russians, i do not want you and i to move into reality, to understand that the choice is not between the two, these territories will actually be will be controlled by the russians or not, and the choice is between whether ukraine will not lose some more regions,

most importantly, whether ukraine will even exist on the political map of the world as an independent state in the near future, because the prerequisites for the disappearance of ukraine are there, not because that the russians will conquer ukraine, no, i can't see anymore. has said many times: the russians have no chance of conquering ukraine, they do not have the strength to do so, but they have every opportunity through a long-term war to bring ukrainian society to a state of indifference to the very idea of ​​statehood. if people live for years in war, in the cold, in the absence of prospects, in fear of being killed, and this happens not for 2.5 years, but for 10 years, then, as you understand, there is a feeling that let it all end. under any conditions, most people's moods change, this is the so-called chechen variant the end of the war is the same as the end of the second chechen war, i always say that it is dangerous, so ukraine has different dimensions, so ukraine has a larger population, so ukraine is in europe, but if ukraine is not

surrounded by security guarantees, then for that , to bring the ukrainian population to such a state, it just takes more time, and to be honest, i don't really care what ukrainians think today, i don't care what they will think tomorrow, because the people who are sitting today and correspond to sociologists that they believe that the war can end only at the borders of 1991, and only with reparations from russia, and the punishment of the war criminal vladimir putin, in 5-6 years, when they will see that some ukrainian regions are still under russian control , putin is not only not punished, but travels around the world and meets with leaders, at least of the countries of the global south, the russians themselves have nothing. especially does not happen, and we live in expecting every winter as a disaster, this person can change your point of view, yes it happens, it is actually the consequences, probably, of the information policy that we had or still have in the 22nd, 23rd, 24th years, we

apologize, very often it is not us, but some mass media, some right- wing , yes... the experts in the media, they tried all this time to make amends for this reality, that is, not to talk to people from the point of view of rationality, truthfulness, sometimes they belittled there, for example, the capabilities of russia itself, including me i don't say anything, maybe for the first few months it was right done, but then it seems to me that this position has done a very... a very big disservice to our citizens, who are still living in some such illusions that so-so-so, as if a miracle is going to happen soon, and here we are absolutely don't mind a miracle, but we have but we have to say that unfortunately as of

today and the time has finally shown that this miracle is so far as unexpected, so i don't know how the authorities will propose it, although together reasons, i don't know at all whether she will have the opportunity to offer it or this option it will really be realistic one day, maybe the authorities will not need to offer anything, maybe it will remain as it is, if the western allies finally come to such a decision, well, i don’t see any problems for the authorities, hasn’t the president of ukraine repeatedly said that there could be a situation , when we will return part of our territories by political means, well, that's what he will say, as he has repeatedly said, that this is how we now receive security guarantees for our... allies, from our allies, we become members of nato, our main goal is fulfilled there desire, we continue negotiations for joining the european union, and regarding the occupied territories, we will continue to fight for them politically, no one

is forcing us to give up these territories, we will never give them up, we believe that these are ukrainian territories , and as nato members of the european union, we will fight for the return of these territories with the support of our allies, maybe? say, maybe, maybe, well, why, what, if we still remember that the popularity of volodymyr zelenskyi is based on unhealthy common sense his supporters per sect. whose attitude to politics, i think that he can afford anything, and those who have now started to accuse volodymyr zelenskyi, by the way, are absolutely baseless in all their sins, when he himself wants the continuation of the war, the preservation of power , he will never convince them of anything, it’s like the situation with petro poroshenko, that is, if we look at it from the point of view of volodymyr zelensky’s holding of power, well, these are not my problems, these are the problems of the president himself, his surroundings, i don’t believe at all that the president zelenskyi can win some real honest competitive ones. after the war, but if they believe in it, but let them work for his election

result, not for reality, that's again, it's not my problem, i just repeatedly said that in history it does not happen, a war president never becomes the president of peace, and president zelenskyi became the president of war and it is not his fault, by the way, he wanted to end this war, he wanted to come to an agreement with putin, these were of course unrealistic, unprofessional expectations, but he wanted it, he didn't start the war, putin started the war, but one way or another in this war. zelenskyy looks exactly like the president of war, not the president of peace, which means that when it comes to peace, new people, new forces will appear, i think that in general there will be a serious reformatting of the entire political field, or it may not be so, or the war will continue for years, there will be no elections here, and there will be such a de facto authoritarian regime of volodymyr zelenskyi, i don’t know there for another 10 years, it may be like that, absolutely, absolutely, in many countries like you know what outposts look like. democracy, martial law was not lifted for decades in taiwan, let's say during

chenka's time, the first real free elections were held there, 30 years later, it seems, after chiang kai-shek managed to withdraw his troops to taiwan, but taiwan was considered a fortress of the free world, no matter what , and ukraine can be considered a fortress of the free world, and the elections, what are the elections, here the inhabitants of this country will forget for a long time, they simply will not be, but they will be. after the war, i guarantee it. vance and wols, let's move on debates of the vice-presidential candidates in the united states of america, and in general the election campaign in the world's largest democracy, there is exactly one month left before the elections will be held, before americans will go to the polls and choose a new one. president, in fact, this week there was this debate, who was more

convincing, we will discuss this, in particular, many were surprised by how divens, who is the republican candidate, the candidate of donald trump for the post of vice president, the united states of america, showed itself not in the worst way, there is even an expert environment. and the voting showed that somewhere about 50 to 50 the opinions were divided, the people's votes were divided, at least on cnn, and one more interesting detail, the candidates did not mention ukraine, that is, the war in ukraine, they focused more on the domestic issues of the united states, discussed there is everything, social issues and... grace, but they did not discuss ukraine. well, mr. vitaly, there is a month

left before the elections, they have already taken place debate, perhaps not exactly followed in ukraine, unlike what happened when the debate between trump and harris took place, we see that the election campaign is taking place in much the same way that it was conducted before. that is, nothing so extraordinary happened, well, besides the fact that trump once again distinguished himself there by calling harris mentally retarded, even the republicans criticized the former or vice president of the former donald trump, well, and such information, if i may add, reuters reports , republicans are preparing to contest the election results in the united states. america, in particular in those states where in those shaky, so-called states, and even today,

by the way, the current president of the united states of america, joe biden, said that he is afraid of what will happen after the elections. actually, we are talking about possible provocations, most likely from the same donald trump. this, mr. vitaly, is the debate of the vice presidents of the vice presidential candidates. the general concept of how the election campaign is going now, if we talk about it, or that is somehow changing the electoral paradigm now, or in... in principle, we are still in those 50/50 percentages, when no one knows and no one can predict who will be the next president, i think that no one knows, no one cannot predict who will become the next president, precisely because you do not know what the electoral college will be like, and precisely because sociology speaks of

the authority of the candidate among the entire population exclusively there, in the shaky... states, in principle, sociology is still there on the margin of statistical error, in some already not, c some of them can already be seen, some of them are just for the sake of it, of course, but one way or another, this is precisely why such attention is drawn to the debates of the candidates for the position of vice president of the united states, in any other situation we would not have paid attention to them at all, do you remember you think that you were interested in the candidates for the post of vice president, it is unlikely, but biden is already with someone... when he was vice president of obama, he had a debate with someone, we don't even remember with whom, who this person was, but she definitely was and this was some strong republican politician, we it just wasn't paid any attention to it, now we're in a different situation where every event seems decisive, every event is not decisive, because these

vice presidential debates, they were interesting only because everyone thought that vance himself will behave some ... the way he behaves at the rallies, and wentz, by all accounts, decided to use this debate to show his own political agenda of the soft face of trumpism, which means that he thinks about the next presidential elections election that his current presidential election doesn't bother him much, and in any case, if donald trump even wins the presidential election, this will be his last term, unless he changes something significantly in the united states there, he will have to... give up running for president of the united states for the next term, and then the question arises who is the heir to trumpism, because we have to understand that this is no longer republicanism, trumpism, and it is clear that in such a situation, when the question arises, can to survive trumpism without trump, and when a person looks civilized on the one hand, and on the other hand professes

the values ​​of trumpism, then this can be a good option. for everyone, both trumpists and anti-trumpists, to the republican party of the united states, if trump loses the election, someone has to be, because trump is unlikely to be as strong after that, not as a candidate, but as a leader, i i don't argue, i don't argue, yes, but in any case, this is... er, the situation could be completely real, we understand that great, and in this regard, i honestly can't imagine what event can significantly affect the course of the election campaign, you probably already forgot that there was an assassination attempt on trump, remember the two, well, the first one was

the most interesting, yes, a real person died there, trump was really a millimeter away. deaths and everyone believed that this definitely made his election campaign, but do you remember how bookmakers and in general all these forecasts, even artificial intelligence, showed that trump had an 80% probability of winning, and i then you ask, he said, it means nothing, a couple of weeks will pass and it will be forgotten, this is not a winning moment, there will be other photos, calm down, because this is a different situation, people who hate trump. won't like him because he got shot at, people who love trump they absolutely don't need an extra shot to say he's their hero, for people who support trump, his fist there was a show of strength and mitzis, people who hate trump, once again saw a person of totalitarian and authoritarian composition, who will go to any lengths for their goal, which is

foreign to them, nothing has changed, but most of the american ones even. didn't want to understand this, didn't want to understand what kind of world they were in, and believed that something could change in this situation, all this is so important, what we said, and you know, this person will win the elections on november 5, it 's impossible, a month left until the end of the company, a decisive month that will not decide anything, because by and large we will not know everything we need to know until the morning of the sixth. november or later, therefore that you are right that the republicans are preparing to fight to challenge the results of the election, but there is a decision of the supreme court of the united states on donald trump'. which effectively rehabilitates any action he may take as president of the united states, even when it comes to the capitols, and thus

joseph biden, thanks to this decision of the supreme court, has been given the opportunity to act decisively with any attempts to violently change the results of the election, and not to fear no liability, i.e. a judge of the supreme court of the united states, ota conservative majority. that decided to save donald trump from being accused of participating in an actual coup d'état in the country, it was an attempted coup d'état, there is no need to even doubt that if mike pence had followed the path of participating in this coup d'état and refused to implement the results of the election, we do not know at all what, what happened, what the procedure would look like in general, what the legitimacy of the american government would look like, it is not clear, but... now joseph biden, when there will be any attempts to storm something there, uh, speak with some radical demands, he can

act absolutely decisively, he can stop these people, he can use force against them, and absolutely not fear any charges, because the supreme court has already ruled that the president of the united states in that position has immunity in situations like this, so these judges, they've given trump a gift along with that, but at the same time they've made it impossible for him to take any enforcement action that would help him get back into the white house. and this is also an important point says that when you make one decision, very often you have to face the consequences of it months later, which nullify its significance, because you understand that if, say, the supreme court of the united states decides that donald trump is guilty and that wine. must answer and that he does not have immunity, now, on the one hand , there would be another process, but how many of these processes are there on trump, as we can see, his political sect absolutely does not pay attention to

these processes, and on the other hand, joseph biden would i thought 100 times how he should behave, so that the next day after the end of the term of office of the president of the united states, he would not be on the dock next to trump, this is such a shaky situation, and the situation is very unstable, but now we can confidently say that... in the president of the united states has the opportunity to defend the results of the election, the fact that the republicans are so preparing to defend them themselves, the evidence is that they basically accept their defeat, and how will this help them, will it help them, well, appealed, if, if the people, the voters voted and the voters voted for another candidate, how will the appeal help them, don't simplify it. there was already a situation in the state of florida, that is, which brought george bush jr. to the presidency, that is, it is about the fact that it is possible that the results

will be invalidated somewhere, yes, and it will help to simply cancel a certain part of the votes, of course, and get another absolutely the result of the voter, we don't know how the situation would have developed if there had been, if the votes in florida had been counted, you are sure that george bush was younger then. won the election, what's the basis of your, that's where you really, that's where you're really right that the republicans might be getting ready to probably repeal in theory, in theory, again, because we don't know, repeal, list some precincts can be canceled so that, if in certain states. wobbly, let's say there, issues will be decided by hundreds of votes, then in order to cancel in some precincts, conditionally so that the result

is overturned, or for the entire state, so that turn the number of voters, so all in their favor, maybe, maybe so completely, so in this regard, it seems to me, we should understand that there are still a lot of surprises waiting for us, this is a campaign. which will be very, very serious and then be a sign of danger all over the world, everyone understands perfectly well that this is a choice of the future for america, that this is a choice of the future for europe, that this is a choice of the future for ukraine, for russia, these are decisive years, in fact these 2024, 2028 will show what the world will be like in the future decade of the 21st century of the world, and in which century will we live in war or in peace? because an accurate awareness of the challenges and dangers depends on this cadence, and of course, next month we will

follow the... elections in the united states of america as much as possible, because they will also have a huge impact on what will happen in ukraine during the next not just months, but years, and maybe tens of years. we have a short break, the saturday political club will be back in a few minutes, so don't switch, we have a lot more interesting topics an unusual look at the news, good health, ladies and gentlemen, my name is mykola veresin, a sharp presentation of facts and competent opinions, for example, if mykola veresin would do that, he would go to prison, a special look at events in ukraine, yes that it is not necessary to say that the fish rots from the head, no, not from the head, and beyond it, who then is china, my heart hurts, all this in the information marathon with mykola september, saturday 17:10, sunday 18 :15 for espresso.

events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, news the tape informs about them. however, it was not enough to know what was happening. it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskii and invited experts soberly assess the events, analyze them, modeling our future. every saturday at 1:10 p.m., with a repeat on sunday at 10:10 a.m. studio zahid with anton borkovsky at espresso. saturday's political club is live ether, and we're back with a new topic. you all know what happened this week as well, this is iran's strike with a large number of ballistic missiles up to 200 units on the territory of israel. we also monitor

blows of israel. in lebanon, to destroy the terrorist hezbollah. in fact, in addition to this, we see that all this has an international context, it all affects the elections in the united states of america, there is the reaction of biden, there is the reaction of other representatives, in particular of european structures, but the general context is that the escalation on in the middle east with... in general, the situation in the middle east is extremely explosive right now, and we see that israel is not retreating from its position, continuing such a limited operation in lebanon on hezbollah, and iran continues to rattle weapons, including now we are also watching and expecting that israel will...

probably retaliate against iranian territory, and the question is what will that response be, will it be limited response, whether it will be a response on certain infrastructure facilities, in particular on nuclear facilities, the president of the united states of america, joe biden, appealed to israel to respond more gently and not to strike these nuclear facilities. there about which we already said, nevertheless, mr. vitaly, we see that iran dared to strike, yes, after a pause that it took for several months, at least, well, it was already a strike after the assassination by arrows, you know, it was already a strike when , as they say, to them, well, relatively speaking, iran wanted to save its face in this way, and, to put it cynically enough,

because... i don't know, you think that it's only face, maybe it's just that he's calculating all the time , that some rockets, they will reach the target, well, 121 rockets, i'm sorry, there is one more point view that this strike was one that was supposed to hold a certain demonstration, you know, it seems to me that this is a conspiracy, well, again, well, you and i live in a country that is constantly attacked by ballistic missiles, neither everyone hits the target, is this a demonstration from the russian side, or do they still want to get somewhere? well, in our case , after all, a large number of missiles reach the target, this is true, because we have a different antipo system, that is, in your opinion, after all, the goal of iran was to hit some specific objects, of course, military objects of israel, etc., they simply did not succeed.