cancellation of missile restrictions, well, in particular, you also said about this, if we talk about other publications in the foreign press, many write that as of now there is no consensus, neither in the united states of america, nor in the federal republic of germany, regarding the accession of ukraine to north atlantic alliance, what formula can there be or what are the variants of this formula. we should expect accelerated accession, given the fact that it is unlikely that we will become a full-fledged member of the north atlantic alliance this year and in the near future, but still have to offer something, what could it be , what would be the mechanism for supporting ukraine? well, now there are various showers and discussions about the fact that... ukraine can join nato with those

territories that are currently under the control of ukraine. that is, for nato to clearly control these territories, and in the event of an attack on these territories, on the free territory of ukraine, nato would respond accordingly, as in the case of an attack on its own member. that is, such a partial accession to nato. we cannot say whether this is profitable for ukraine at the moment, maybe. and profitable, but that will depend on the results of the american elections, but in general, of course, it is better until then, before joining nato, to directly liberate as much of the territory of ukraine as possible, that is, these discussions have been going on for a very long time, i, by the way, once participated in them myself a long time ago, when we talked about the possible accession of ukraine to nato, ah, well, along the borders, which

were determined by the demarcation line, which was determined by the minsk agreements, that was the idea to join nato then , of course, that if we did it then, most likely, if we were taken there, most likely there was no such a full-scale attack by russia, this is an understandable matter, well, most likely the most likely, but uh, well, now there are, in addition to long-range weapons, there are other important things that the west can do. first of all, to invest large sums of money in the ukrainian defense industry, to provide certain technological solutions, in addition, the united states, france, and britain have bombs, and this type of analogue of the russian cabs, which fly there 100 times a little further than the russian cabs, and in in principle, if they were to be supplied en masse to ukraine, for our f-16s and for our other

soviet-made aircraft, of course it would seriously affect the situation on the battlefield, well, some generals, some experts, military, generals, first of all practical, they say that in case, if we had a sufficient number of aviation and these western cabs, yes, during last year's summer counteroffensive, the situation would have developed completely differently than it developed when ukraine was forced to work, in fact, under the air dominance of russia, so i think that there are such opportunities to allocate funds for ukrainian missiles, there are such opportunities to build drones, which is what holland is talking about, they recently allocated 400 million euros for all these things, for the construction of drones, there are other opportunities, there are opportunities for these bombs, cabs, the americans seem to be there now, well , judging by their... their orders in

their military-industrial complex, they very closely began to deal with these analogues of their own cabs, and if they succeed there very quickly, then it is clear that this can have a very serious impact on the situation, i.e in fact, then, then ukrainians will not sit under these russian cabs, but at least on one side and on the other side, and maybe vice versa. it is possible that the russians, so i think that these, well, we will be able to hear about the specifics only after the consequences, but if we still talk about nato and return to this topic, to the possible accession of ukraine to nato, and we have a small right now there is a problem with the connection with ... mr. oleksandr, so, in general, if

we continue this conversation, in principle , there is really a discussion now about what choose the formula or which plan to choose for the possible support of ukraine by nato. we understand that accession to nato is a rather long process, given that each member country needs to ratify ukraine's accession to the north atlantic alliance in its own parliament, and this means that you understand, slovakia, hungary, and perhaps some other countries will either be against it or occupy a certain one. neutral position, in the end we do not know the clear position even now of the united states of america and germany, whether they are still ready to include ukraine in of the north atlantic alliance, or still provide some limited support, actually within

the framework of bilateral agreements, or conditionally speaking, formulas when ukraine is a candidate for nato membership, that is, according to information in the west. different types of showers, which we also talked about, are now really considering different options and different answers to this question. mr. oleksandr, returning to the live broadcast, so mr. oleksandr, in principle, let's discuss one more topic now, it concerns ukraine and slovakia. it happened today the meeting of the heads of government of the two states, in particular. not the two states, i apologize, but the heads of governments, yes, and actually, if we are talking about this plan of action that was signed between the two countries, if we are talking about the statements of mr. fico, who says

that he does not see ukraine as a state currently in nato, however, i still believe that ukraine should be a member of the european union, well, in principle, everyone... fico's latest statements are quite controversial. as far as you can now assess the state of slovakia, or rather, the government of slovakia, how a certain obstacle for the north atlantic integration of our country, well, in principle, as a state that very often voices russian narratives today, and most importantly, should we now try to reach mr. fico, how to change his point of view, we must understand that in hungary and in slovakia, in fact , russian agents and fizo russian russians are in power, in fact they are standing up, trying

to actually stab us in the back when ukraine. carries out his heroic struggle, therefore it is necessary to understand that at the same time these the countries are very small, together hungary and slovakia are only 3% of the population of the european union, i.e. together these two countries, i.e. these are micro-countries, which due to their various dependencies on russia, they are trying, so to speak, to hinder us, but... what can we do about this, we need to understand that, well, decide when the question of directly joining nato will arise, then we will need to seek some kind of decision from these countries, but it is not known

how it will be at that time, whether will be these politicians whether they are still in power or not, whether they will change their opinion in a completely different way, and so on, how the parliaments will vote there, that is also unknown. well , in short, roughly speaking, until the very moment of the actual decision on accession, our opinion is not interesting to them, well their opinion is by and large not interesting to ukraine, because we know what kind of people they are and who is behind them, we are interested in economic, well, trade through slovakia to take place, and... that's why we pretend that what orbán is saying now, and we're trying to work in this direction, you have to understand that they are not security donors, neither hungary nor slovakia, they do not produce anything, almost

there, slovakia produced some doves there and even gave ukraine a couple, but in the grand scheme of things, i will not solve anything, their military is possible. don't decide anything, we are only interested in them as transit territories and that's all. mr. oleksandr, thank you for joining the broadcast of espresso tv channel, for... your thoughts, oleksandr palii, historian and political scientist was just on air. i remind you about our survey, by the way, in the context of that what we just talked about with mr. oleksandr about the possible hypothetical accession of ukraine to the north atlantic alliance, do you consider it possible to join nato before the liberation of the occupied territories of ukraine. if yes, 0800 211. 381, if not, 0800-211-382.

all your calls from your phones or smartphones are absolutely free, so please vote, we will tally up the interim results very soon. we continue, and we have an equally resonant topic, which resonates with many citizens of our country, which worries the citizens of our country, this the topic itself. poland poland is now raising the volyn issue again, we will talk about this with volodymyr vyatrovych, people's deputy of ukraine, member of the ovr committee on humanitarian and information policy, historian, mr. volodymyr, i am glad to see you, good evening, good evening, mr. volodymyr, i have already announced what we will usually talk about, the polish government puts... in fact, the european integration aspirations of ukraine in dependence on the volyn issue, for example, we

see the statements of the head of the polish peasant of the psl party, if wladyslaw koseniak kamysh's polish in an interview with the newspaper vyadomost, he actually says the following, let's see now, i'm not changing my opinion, although i see that everything is different with president duda. will not join the european union, there will be no my consent, if the issue of the volyn tragedy is not resolved, anti-ukrainian sentiments will grow if the authorities do not resolve the issue of the volyn tragedy, this is what mr. vladyslav says, again, the head of one of the parties, which today is de facto in the coalition, at the same time the ukrainian institute of national memory plans to include work on the search and exhumation of the remains of poles in the rivne region. in 2025, responding to the relevant requests of polish citizens, the head

of the ukrainian institute of national remembrance , anton drobovych, asked the government for 1 million hryvnias for a separate program for search operations as part of the exhumation of the victims of the volyn tragedy, and mr. sikorskyi himself, this is the ministry of foreign affairs of the republic poland on polish radio also commented on the conflict, with volodymyr zelensky around the actual issue of the volyn tragedy during their meeting in september, foreign media wrote about it, let's listen. was there really a conflict when you spoke with him a few weeks ago, as journalist vitol tyuras described. i can really ask rube's question. chili was an adventure? and well, this is not a very good ending, well, first of all, you need to understand that

this is not happening now, it is happening systematically and consistently, with varying intensity, since about 2003, that is when this topic first became very political in poland and in fact, never since then did not disappear from the polish political agenda, and you know, when the statements of some polish politicians are heard now that we see this in 2022... the issue was not brought up to date, because we felt sorry for the ukrainians after the start of the full-scale war, this is not quite the case, - firstly, on the 22nd, this issue was raised by the then prime minister of morawiecki, secondly, i think that it did not sound so loudly not because some of the polish politicians who are now using this issue in a critical manner regretted the ukrainians, but precisely because , which is probably more ukraine then was feared, ukraine was respected more, because then ukraine showed itself to the whole world as a country capable of resisting, capable of liberating and even conquering. russians in the territory, it is necessary to understand that polish politicians really politicize this

issue as much as possible, make everything dependent on them as much as possible, so that this issue does not become the subject of discussions among historians, because right now it seems to me that there is every reason to talk about a normal qualitative, possible normal qualitative discussion between historians, taking into account the things that happened in ukraine, the fact that in in the end, the archives were opened in ukraine, and we actually started such a very interesting dialogue. in the 14th year there were even five big important meetings, it seems to me that one of the motives of polish politicians is to stop this dialogue between historians, because unfortunately, for them... this dialogue somewhat destroyed those myths, stereotypes, ideas about the polish-ukrainian conflict, which are very convenient for them now, which they try to fix in political decisions. we are talking about the baseless figure of 100,000 poles killed, we are talking about the symbolic day 11 july, when only polish victims are mentioned, it is absolutely incorrect

from the legal and historical point of view of the definition of genocide, so what is happening now is only about... the continuation of all these plots. the only thing that has happened differently now is that the representatives of the civic platform party, the more liberal wing of the polish government, who fiercely criticized their opponents of law and justice precisely for such merciless use of history, have now actually picked up their rhetoric, i am honestly surprised, what mr. sikorsky, a person with such pro-ukrainian and pro-european views, now actually what he says is voiced by his political opponent, mr. kaczynski, he says: with almost his words, as for the current minister of defense, i am certainly not surprised here, because the party the right-wing party, the people's party, the peasant party, has always flirted with such a right-wing electorate, it seems to me that now his statements are an attempt to overturn, to win over a part of the pis electorate in support. an additional argument that this is a language

it is only about political points, there is the fact that those politicians who, those politicians who were actually spokesmen of exactly this approach to history, having lost any of their political ambitions or desire to go further into politics, suddenly became enlightened, i have referring to the former minister of foreign affairs jacyk czapotowicz, who openly calls poland's current policy a hygiene policy and clearly states that poland is not interested in solving any issues there with exhumations, with searches, because precisely not solving this issue is a source of certain political dividends and... a surprisingly correct statement by the current president of poland andrzej duda, who obviously understands that he will no longer run for a third term, therefore calls what is happening a completely incorrect blackmail on the part of poland, which plays into the hands of to putin, yes, of course, of course, but i lack some voices

of polish politicians who have political influence, who have political ambition in poland in order to stop ... this madness that, unfortunately, is still growing in the neighboring exactly the state and mr. volodymyr, what should we do, what should be the position of ukraine, it is clear that the highest officials and society, that is, what should we do in this situation? i believe that the current position of ukraine is the only correct one, that is, i see no reason to revise it in any way, because i am convinced that any signs of concessions from the ukrainian side will not give anything, because they were. the hopes of some ukrainian politicians, especially those who came to power in 2019, were the hopes of my successor, that the whole problem lies in these relations between ukraine and poland, which began to deteriorate in the 16th year after peace came to power, this is the problem of the predecessors, this is the problem of poroshenko, this is the problem of vyatrovych, we will come and we will be able to understand each other, 10 steps were taken

to meet our polish partners, none of which did not end with at least one step from... from the polish side, hence the fact that now it is being said again that let's maybe still take a step towards a meeting, and even then in the end at least one of those 15 splendid monuments there will be ukrainian graves on the territory of poland restored, i think that this is an absolutely naive position, i think that the naive position is the statement of the current head of the ukrainian institute of national remembrance that let's still go to the meeting with the poles and allow us to conduct search operations, i think that the wrong position, which is that... to ask the government to allocate one million hryvnias for the search for victims, polish victims of the polish-ukrainian conflict, i would like to hear the same, at least the figure for the search for the ukrainian victims of this conflict, because i am convinced that on it's a pity, and on the territory of poland, there are pigtails of ukrainians who are not buried, who are not honored by anyone, so if we want

some kind of normal relations in the present, it is obvious that this is not even just our right, it is our duty. demand a certain symmetry in these relations, otherwise any concessions on our part will be used to continue building up some additional claims, and this will definitely not resolve misunderstandings between ukraine and poland. and the easiest thing we should do is obviously to make it clear ukrainian-polish society, that historical questions are those that historians should solve. i am surprised and annoyed when it is considered normal that on the polish side polish politicians voice... a statement like, until the issue of the volyn tragedy is resolved, how can the issue of the volyn tragedy be resolved? the volyn tragedy is something that happened decades ago, almost 90 years, almost 100 years ago. that is, how can we teach it, it already happened, it happened the way it happened, the only thing we can do is try to understand why it happened, try to understand the scale of what happened, and in the end, if we talk about

some political level, then only some moral approach, which was proposed at the time by john paul ii, of mutual forgiveness if we refuse , as suggested by polish politicians for mutual forgiveness, it is undeniable that an attempt to impose on each other some one-sided assessment of what happened will be in this... conflict, it will only provoke new conflicts. sir volodymyr, at the expense of the fact that poland threatens to actually block the movement of ukraine to the european union, do you believe that this can actually happen? that is, we can face not just words, but reality, when poland will say: that's it, you will not join the european union, if you do not go there, conditionally speaking, to some absolutely incomprehensible political concessions. look, we are not talking about poland, we are talking about specific representatives of specific political forces, we are talking specifically about the current minister of defense, so obviously that we are talking about the representative of

the people's opposition party, no one knows how long they will remain in the government, by the way, this party is not, is not the majority in the government, i.e. it is a lesser partner in this government, no one can be sure , poland is a democratic state, that the current government is forever from poland, i think that... we need to appeal absolutely to healthy forces in polish society, in european society, regarding the inadmissibility of this kind of historical blackmail, especially since, among other things , we have a very similar, well, cautionary example for us and for the whole of europe, when one of the states, which is also a candidate for the european union, which tried to make concessions of such a historical nature, turned, unfortunately, into the object of further blackmail, i mean the state. which is now called north macedonia, which, under the pressure of greece, was forced to give up the name greba, from its anthem, and now bulgaria has joined the pressure of greece, which demands

changes in the constitution, where bulgarians should be called a state-forming nation in the north macedonia, so the caveat is that crazy concessions to mindless pressure by the politicization of history on the part of polish politicians will certainly encourage our... neighbors, i mean first of all our hungarian neighbors, who are also, where hungarian politicians are also far from sympathizing with ukraine, from seeing ukraine in the european union, and unfortunately, among them there are many who are ready to flirt with putin. mr. volodymyr, i would like to talk with you about one more topic, as with a people's deputy of ukraine, about so-called economic reservation, so deputy minister of economy of ukraine vitaliy kindrat. at a meeting of the financial committee of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, he said that the government had already decided what the formula of this economic reservation would be, but

they had not yet decided on the model. we literally have two or three minutes left, how correct do you think the model proposed by the government today is, and how much in general, in principle, do we need this economic reservation today? i haven't seen it yet presented by this model, which is supposedly proposed by the government, but in general i think that the very idea of ​​economic defense is evil, because it turns this war into a war of the poor, that is, that civic duty can and should be performed only by those people who do not have enough money, and others can buy off it, it is very dangerous in fact for the country, because the war that is being waged now is a war for the independence of the state, it is a war for preservation. us as a nation, not a poor man's war so that the rich can buy off that war, so i i think that these are very, very dangerous ideas, and to play with them at a time when we have

problems with mobilization, at a time when we have problems with the fact that we lack the resources to stop the russian offensive, well, that to once again throw to the russians an additional topic of some internal social conflict in the country, and will there be votes. in the verkhovna rada of ukraine to vote for this model of economic reservation. and one more thing, by the way: will there be votes to vote for these tax changes, historical tax changes, such two in one issue, i.e. , do people's deputies mostly support such initiatives? it is difficult to say clearly, because this parliament is not self-sufficient and this parliament is very controlled and there are even some things that can be... you know, it is almost political suicide for the politicians who vote for it, but under the pressure of the bank and often they vote for it, i think they will succeed in increasing taxes. after all

, press her hall in order to make this decision it was decided whether it would be possible to do it before about economic reservation, here here here here i am less sure, because i think that the question of economic reservation will cause, well, much more disturbance than even raising taxes, but unfortunately i cannot say with certainty that it definitely won't happen, because i know how easily this breaks, sorry for the bloodless parliament, but please tell me, in such a case, if it is really necessary to push one or two things, where do you think the votes will be attracted, because we understand that in principle there are not enough votes, traditionally without resources, how many 30 plus votes are there, the so-called opzzh is always at the service of the current government, besides, it is obvious that there are some oligarchic deputies of various kinds who will bargain for... their

material , important things for them, and at the right moment, as always, they vote, and well, thank you, mr. volodymyr, for joining the live broadcast of the espresso tv channel and the new week program, volodymyr vyatrovych was just with us , people's deputy of ukraine, member of the committee of the verkhovna rada of ukraine on humanitarian and information policy and historian, well, we talked, of course, about... such an important and irritating topic as the polish question, that is, the volyn question, the question of what poland today demands, in fact, from ukraine to go to certain concessions, instead of actually organizing a discussion between historians, in principle, this discussion has been going on for a very long time, but, as they say, it is still there because this issue is too politicized. especially at

a time when ukraine is fighting against russia an aggressor, when people are dying in our country every day, and we need support, we need movement towards the european union, towards nato, and not such and such political positions of our neighbors. let's make an interim summary of how you voted, today we ask you whether you think it is possible for ukraine to join nato before the liberation of the ukrainian territories occupied by russia, and the audience of the tv channel answered: yes, 54%, that is, they believe that we will join nato and no, how much is actually 46%. we are now passing the baton to our partners from bbc ukraine, so

see you in 15. what is happening in israel a year after the attacks by hamas militants and the beginning of the war in the gaza strip, we are talking about this on the bbc live from london, i am yevgenia shedlovska. how did israeli intelligence see the preparation of hamas for the october 7 attack? the army was unprepared to repel such an unexpected attack. miscalculated or underestimated the enemy. these questions still remain unanswered. exactly one year ago, hamas militants broke through

the barrier on the border of the gas sector. israeli border settlements and troops were attacked.