pushing into the communities to the east of us, and that is where the flooding is hitting particularly difficult, and in a hard way this morning in around us here. stuart: jeff flock, we'll be back to you later. thanks, jeff. we've been tracking gas prices right along with isaac, there's been a considerable spike this week, another one overnight and one key swing state is getting the worst of it. full details next. plus, keith fitz-gerald whether the markets will take off right along with the polls after labor day. look at this, the debt clock climbing inexorably towards 16 trillion. we'll be back after this. g. make sure the news keeps coming with thinkorswim by td ameritrade. use the news links breaking stories with possible breakout stocks, options with potential opportunity, futures and forex with in-depth analysis. it's an all-you-can-eat buffet for all things trading. thinkorswim by td ameritrade. it doesn't just deliver news. it's making news.

trade commission free for 60 days, plus get up to $600 when you open an account.

. stuart: so what went up as isaac's rain came down? gas prices, national average for regular, 3.82 and diesel 4.08. regular gas jumped more than 2 cents overnight and almost as much a gain for diesel as well. now, look at the spikes in ohio,

this is for the past week. cincinnati is up 24 cents a gallon. canton, 31 cents. toledo 33 cents. it's isaac related refinery shutdowns that have crimped supplies and raised prices across the midwest. let's look at oil. where it's at right now. down a little. 95 per barrel. very slow action in stocks and maybe that will change and very low trading volume. could we get real movement after labor day when the election comes into sharper focus? joining us from portland, oregon. keith fitz-gerald with money map press. and keith, i know the big mover for the market is whether or not ben prints money or mario draghi prints money in europe, but i think that politics is coming into sharper focus, if one of these two candidates makes a breakout after labor day in the polls, i think that could move the market. what do you say? >> i agree 100% and that's the

key, a breakout speech. if romney takes the stage tonight, really engages america, steps up, wraps up all of the things we've heard so far from people like condoleezza rice, and his sidekick ryan, i think that's going to energize the market. people forget we're at five-year lows in terms of volume. looking for something to get hyped. if that happens, the market will realistically generate that romney rally. >> so if mitt romney looks good in the the polls, looks like he's going to win, that means stocks go up. what happens if the reverse is true, that president obama looks like he gets a second term? is there a selloff? >> you know, i think that's the question. i've been struggling with that. if the democrats take decisive lead, i would be cautious and hesitant buying anything this this market right now. >> and i'm making a value judgment that mario draghi is going to come out with a plan to

print a ton of euros, and ben bernanke, he could, but if that happens, lots of money printing this market really takes off, does it? >> i think that's accurate. because super mario and helicopter ben are going to want to do something better and something big. they're going to have to do something big, whether or not the market buys that anything other than charlotte basis remains. stuart: i think that's why the dow is around 13,000. thank you, sir. the romney-ryan medicare plan is out there and so is a budget plan, but what is the president's plan? can democrat congressman peter welch give us a thumbnail sketch how the obama team would grow this economy? he's next. after the bell, the on-line music service pandora is up, an internet ipo success story? at least today. coming up. [ male announcer ] if you have to take care of legal matters.

legalzoom has an easy and affordable option. you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support, backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself.

with the fidelity stock screener, you can try strategies from independent experts and see wh criteria they use. such as a 5% yield on dividend-paying stocks. then you can customize the strategies and narrow down to exactly those stocks you want to follow. i'm mark allen of fidelity investments. the expert strategies feature is one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account.

ben speaks tomorrow. will he print more money? that's what everybody wants to know. right now, the dow jones industrials average, 30 points in the first few seconds of business. and the internet music providing pandora, you can lizzen to advertising, you can listen to the pandora free with advertising. or if you pay a fee, well, then you get no commercials and still listen to the music and that's

pandora, everybody. lauren, where did the stock go? >> good day for pandora, up 13%, opening up above 11. it ipo 'd last year at $16 and you know, so, it was around 10 for a while and now it's getting a nice boost and in fact, pandora said that more people are listening to it on their mobile devices and that's a good sign if they figure out from that. >> maybe it's found its feet and marketplace and 14% is a nice gain. i want to move on to amazon and they say that the kindle fire has sold out and that the kindle fire took 22% of the tablet market. i think that's a big deal. how about the stock? >> that's a huge deal. it's a huge deal. it's completely flat right now, but it's at a very lofty level and 247.61 a the all time high for amazon and we are actually we have a new all time high. that's the new all time high for amazon. stuart: right there. >> it's just opening and we have to try to figure it out and you

know what's also shocking about the kindle fire, launched only nine months ago. doesn't it seem like it's been out forever? in just nine months captured 22% market share and a good price point, take that apple, right. stuart: take that. thanks, lauren, back to you shortly. the dow is down 59 points a loss bigger than expected actually. a debt and downgrade story for you from illinois and pension problems worse there. standard & poor's downgraded the state's debt rating because of its inability to cut public employee pensions. now, wisconsin's governor, scott walker, he's taking a shot at his neighbor to the south. here is the governor's statement. quote, there could not be a more stark contrast between wisconsin and illinois. political leaders in illinois kick the can down the road, raise taxes, ignore fiscal realities. now, they're realizing the consequences of their actions, credit down grades and negative

outlooks. okay. governor pat quinn, his office responded to the downgrade, saying, yes, there has been mismanagement of the budget over the decades, but he also needs republicans to make tough decisions. the latest city to face financial crisis, scranton, pennsylvania. and what the mayor is doing, a real emergency in a swing state. top of the hour for you. last night, senator rob portman, he took aim at president obama's economic plan in his address to the rnc. listen to this. >> i ask you, where is the president's economic plan? blaming others does not qualify as a plan. now, the president did submit a budget, it was so bad, folks, that not a single republican or a single democrat in the entire united states congress would vote for it. he got zero votes.

that is a failure of leadership. stuart: all right, so, he asked the question, what is the president's plan? joining me now is congressman peter welch, he's a democrat, from vermont and he joins us. thanks very much for being with us today. so, we do appreciate it. if i can give you very easily 20 seconds on what the romney-ryan budget medicare plan is. i can very easily. can you give me 20 seconds on what the obama plan is? >> yes, balance. he has submitted a plan that would have reduced the debt by 3 trillion dollars over ten years and essentially, it would have revenues, cuts, including in the pentagon and it would have reforms in entitlement. so it was a balanced approach as oppose today everything being loaded on the cut side on domestic discretionary spending. stuart: why didn't the democrats in the senate, who were in the majority, vote for it? >> they have a chance.

now in the house-- >> senator reid would not put it to the senate. he's the leader of the senate, majority party in the senate and he would not put the president's budget to a vote. >> well, realistically, it's dead end. in other words, if you have a republican majority mr. boehner decides what to put up and passed the ryan budget and 60 vote filibuster hurdle in the senate. no chance anything other than a republican budget would get considered. that's just politics, politics on both sides and the inability of congress republicans and democrats to get together and compromise on something. you know, the things that i point out that really quite glaring is that paul ryan last night was talking about bowles simpson and going after the president for not pushing it and in fact it was paul ryan's vote that denied congress the opportunity to have a mandatory up or down vote on it. so there's an enormous amount of gamesmanship going on here. republican house had a shot at congress voting on a serious debt reduction program, but paul

ryan's vote is the one that denied congress the opportunity to do it and turns around and blames president obama. so, we're in a convention season, a lot of exaggeration, some outright lying and i think that's what we're having to contend with now. stuart: may i ask the same question to you that i've asked of many people who appeared on this program, and that's this. the president wants to raise taxes on those people making more than $250,000 a year. that's part of the plan, okay. got it. that would bring in an estimated, cbo says bring in maybe 80 billion dollars a year. that would then be spent on education and infrastructure. how would that create jobs? >> well, my view is that actually the infrastructure spending, every billion dollars of infrastructure spending creates several thousand jobs and america needs to be investing in the future. by the way infrastructure spending is where we've neglected doing something that's going to be very important for

our economy and in fact, normally, republicans and democrats are in favor of that. you know, we can get rid of earmarks and just build the roads and bridges that we need. roads and bridges to somewhere, build out broadband and something for potential for republicans and democrats to work on, but we've had a hard time even getting a temporary transportation bill pass this had year. a lot of room for america to solve the debt problem, but we have to cooperate and it has to be balanced. stuart: would you say if the present plan as you've outlined it, passed in full, you've got it, it's in place, would that give us 4 or 5% growth? would you forecast that? >> no, i don't know what it would, i'm not a forecaster, and you know, we have to acknowledge is that we do have a very serious economic challenge. and it's a consequence of the -- of the recession that occurred as a result of the financial bubble. and traditionally, when you've got a financial bubble induced recession, that's what we're

coming out of, it's much tougher to dig our way out of it. the more we go back and forth on the blame game the less we'll find common sense to take to move forward, let me give you an example. energy efficiency-- >> i'm terribly sorry, congressman, i've got it. i'm flat out of town. i'm terribly sorry, i'm flat out of time. we have a big show today. thank you for being with us, appreciate it. >> thank you. stuart: i'm sorry, i do have to move on, news on dupont. and i find in quite surprising. it's selling its car paint unit. to a private equity firm. carlisle. what do you think the price would be, the car paint unit? 4.9 billion dollars? i did not know there was that much money in paint for cars. so, lauren, tell me what the stocks are doing. >> you'd be surprised, it's a big deal. but the stock is not moving too much. dupont is up just slightly, near

$50, but when the dow is down 70 points you have a green arrow. >> and i never satisfies to be amazed how much money is involved in some aspects of the american economy. 4.9 billion on car paint. who knew? >> all right. lauren, thank you very much indeed. i'm looking for amazon, can we get a quick quote on amazon? i was interested in the news that they've got 20% of the tablet market. a new high, by the way, they've sold out of the kindle fire, they've got 22% of the tablet market with the kindle fire. new high. 248 on amazon. now, the latest poll on rasmussen on the election, dead heat. obama and romney tied at 45. the tracking poll from rasmussen, do it every day. time is money, 30 seconds, here is what else we've got for you. if you're an early riser like me, you have trouble staying awake for the late speeches. who gave the best speech at the

rnc so far? a lot of people say condoleezza rice. we'll renew all of them. several companies are coming out with new tv's and the high def set we have now. wait until you hear how much they cost. e-mail us, please, any time, any subject. varney@foxbusiness.com. and seven early movers, and made jenkins the new ceo, no effect on the stock. and vera bradley lowered guidance, down 7%. tivo, adding subscribers, the stock barely changed. disappointing guidance from oxford industries, the maker of tommy bahama, right? tommy bahama and lilly pulitzer clothing. the stock is down 3%. sears holdings exiting the s&p 500. not good news, it's down 5% and the industrial machinery maker, flow international, made more money than expected and that

stock is down 40%. the internet radio service pandora says the outlook is rosie, up 22%, not bad. last night we heard from senator paul rand-- i'm sorry, rand paul, i'm terrible today. one of the leading libertarian voices he's talking about president obama's attack on business. how did our resident libertarian john stossel feel about it. he's next. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations,

where our dedicated support teams help you know more so your money can do more. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our teams have the information you want when you need it. it's anothereason more investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade. but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and reducing emissions... ...protect water - through conservation and self-contained recycling systems... ... and protect land - by reducing our footprint and respecting wildlife. america's natural gas... domestic, abundant, clean energy to power our lives... that's smarter power today.

now we need a little bit more... a little bit more vanilla? this is great! [ male announcer ] at humana, we believe there's never been a better time to share your passions because the results... are you having fun doing this? yeah. that's a very nice cake! [ male announcer ] well, you can't beat them. [ giggles ] ohh! you got something huh? whoa... [ male announcer ] humana understands the value of spending time together

that's a lot of work getting that one in! let's go see the birdies. [ male announcer ] one on one, sharing what you know. let's do it grandpa. that's why humana agents will sit down with you, to listen and understand what's important to you. it's how we help you choose the right humana medicare plan for you. because when your medicare is taken care of, you can spend more time sharing your passions. wow. [ giggles ] [ male announcer ] with the people who matter most. i love you grandpa! i love you grandma! now you're a real fisherman. [ male announcer ] humana. >> first time we've seen a loss this big in about a week.

down 60 points. it's not big, but down 60. and the price of oil this morning is right about $95 a barrel. down 27 cents, not much movement in oil today. now this, congressman paul-- yeah, paul ryan, he wasn't the only headliner last night at the convention, rand paul also delivered a message to republicans. here is the senator from last night. listen to this. >> when you seek to punish the rich the jobs lost are those to the poor and the middle class. . [cheers] >> when you seek to punish mr. exxonmobil, you punish the secretary who owns exxonmobil stock. when you block the keystone pipeline, you punish the welder who works on the pipeline. stuart: well, john stossel, he's a libertarian, the host of

"stossel" here on fox business and here with me right now. john, look across the spectrum of what you see of the rnc so far. as a libertarian, do you like this? >> sure, they're really talking about the size of the state and cutting government and we just heard -- you have trouble with this, i did, it, rand paul, paul ryan, ron paul-- and also chris christie, the math does not add up. we have no other option, but to make hard choices. >> ted cruz, right to secure only when government power is restrained. r davis, when they say we have a duty to grow government, even when we cannot afford it, does that sound compassionate or reckless? these aren't things we've always heard from republicans. stuart: i think it's true to say the libertarian faction, if you like, libertarian people, you're becoming more mainstream. >> about time. . [laughter] >> don't raise i remembyour vo

you're becoming more mainstream. i think you are. >> eventually people wise up. we can't keep saying, free stuff, no cost. it takes thinking how cutting government can help people. canada did and canada is doing better. stuart: are you one of those that wants to cut now. live within our means now. if that means cutting a trillion from the budget tomorrow morning. >> i would happily cut a trillion, but we don't have to live fully within our means if we just slow the growth of government to 1 or 2% and get us out of the bankruptcy cliff. >> i'm with you, i don't see cutting a trillion tomorrow morning, because that would have a devastating impact on the economy. we go straight to recession, we just would. i can see a long-term plan to rein in spending and reduce spending over the longer term. can we agree on that?

>> we can agree on that. i think there are things you could cut you now that would cause if you cut the drug wars, if you cut regulation and cut some of the stuff that government shouldn't be doing. >> that's interesting. now, your show is on tonight. it's at eleven o'clock eastern time on the fox business network, but it's different tonight. you're looking at the mitt romney's speech, aren't you? >> right after romney speaks, we'll come on live for an hour, and take, give the libertarian take about the whole convention. >> i wonder if you'll like anything in mitt romney's speech? >> i'm sure there will be. we'll have a live audience to weigh in. >> really? a big deal. eleven o'clock tonight shall everybody, stossel on the fox business network. john, thanks indeed. a big long day, get a nap in, okay? and where are we this morning for gold, 1,663 barely changed. up 70 cents. the next big thing in technology may be is giant television.

costs between 20 and $30,000. >> really? >> yeah, what's so great about it? is it worth it? nicole petallides and charles payne are on their way in and we're talking about the new 4-ktv. what's it going to make news anchors look like? >> i don't want to know. >> ♪ video killed the radio star ♪

>> it's a very simple question, would you pay more than $20,000 for a super high def television? sony thinks you will. the company just announced the latest 4-k, 84 inch flat screen tv. it would be the highest resolution tv available to any consumer anywhere, the price is not official, but clearly not cheap. so, charles, rich man. [laughter] would you? >> no, i'd spend $20,000 on a watch, but not a tv although a couple of weeks from now they'll have them at the sony store, so i'm definitely going to come into the city and look at it and see what this thing is all about. 4-k sounds great. stuart: is it that much better. that much better than what we've got. charles: it sounds like it is, it's scary. stuart: here is what i think,

3-d failed miserably. >> right. stuart: you've got to get people to change their set so you offer them a 4-k set. would you buy it? >> i barely know what you're saying, 4-k, 3-d. listen, i've got a fake life and a real life. in my real life i have an old school television set not even hd in my bedroom. however, if i had a ton of money to just throw away i would get the super-duper $20,000 television, why not? >> tell the truth. charles, do you know how to turn the television or your kids do it. charles: my kids have to intervene, i don't know with the remote. stuart: air not going to tell the truth. >> i needed help turning on this laptop and i'm all about stocks. stuart: and this is the big night for mitt romney. and he will have the biggest audience of his life as he accepts the g.o.p. nomination and speaks to millions.

new at 10, mike reagan with personal advice for mitt romney. and how did his father approach it, did he mention him by name. do you remember this. >> back in 1976 mr. carter said, trust me. and a lot of people did. and now, many of those people are out of work.

>> announcer: meet mary. she loves to shop online with her debit card, and so does bill, an identity thief who

stole mary's identity, took over her bank accounts and stole her hard-earned money. now meet jack. after 40 years, he finally saved enough to enjoy retirement. angie, the waitress at jack's favorite diner, is also enjoying his retirement. with just a little information, she's opened up a credit line, draining the equity in jack's home. unfortunately, millions of americans just like you learn all it may take is a little misplaced information to wreak havoc on your life. this is identity theft, and no one helps stop it better than lifelock. see, ordinary credit monitoring services tell you after your identity has been stolen. they may take 30 days to alert you-- too late for jack. lifelo has the most comprehensive identity theft protection available. if mary had lifelock's bank account alerts, she may have been notified in time to help stop it. if jack had lifelock's 24/7 proactive protection, he could have been alerted by phone or e-mail as soon as they noticed an attack on their network,

before it was too late. lifelock has the most comprehensive identity theft protection available, guarding your social security number, your money, your credit, even the equity in your home. while identity theft can't be completely stopped, no one works harder to protect you than lifelock. you even get a $1 million service guarantee. that's security no one can beat. you have so much to protect and nothing to lose when you call lifelock right now and get 60 days of identity theft protection risk free-- that's right, 60 days risk free-- use promo code: notme. order now and get this document shredder to keep sensitive documents out of the wrong hands-- a $29 value, free. call the number on your screen. [♪...]

stuart: new at 10:00 the front line in the national public budget crisis. scranton, pennsylvania at this hour is hoping to close the deal on a $6 million loan. if it fails the city will not be able to make payroll. the latest blow to a city that temporarily put its employees on minimum-wage last month. we are following the latest developments right there. new at 10:00 what part of the republican convention are you talking about right now? was it paul ryan or condoleezza rice? a big debate today as we await the most important moment in mitt romney's political life tonight. 3:59 is where we are. freddie mac 30 year fixed rate mortgage, 359. virtually unchanged from the previous week but a low level.

dow industrials down 73 points this thursday morning. quite a drop. we had some negative news on the employment front earlier today. here is the thursday morning company. nicole petallides with us today and charles payne back again and lauren simonetti on the floor of the stock exchange. at this hour scranton, pennsylvania is trying to close the deal for an emergency $6.2 million loan. it needs the money to keep paying workers salaries. chris dougherty says theoan will close today but there's no confirmation so far. last month the mayor temporarily cut city worker pay to a minimum wage to try to save money. right on the brink. nicole: a story again. meeting money to pay workers that are retiring that need all these benefits. we had that yesterday in california and we were talking about this. it is a constant problem.

charles: this amalgamated bank sort of an arm of the s c i you. the democratic national committee moved all of this banking money to this bank. is this town going to be beholden to the democratic party? to complete the own this town? we already talked about collective bargaining and these things. when the union bails out the city, listen, is a lifeline. people need a lifeline but i don't think any sort of bank would have made this loan, a small temple or very -- this is a small -- >> go to somebody rich and held accountable to any type of party. >> it doesn't solve the core

problems. >> an emergency package where he raises sales tax and other taxes in the city and look for this emergency loan. charles: you don't have -- scranton, pennsylvania going bankrupt, in the middle of an election. stuart: to lauren at the stock exchange. look at amazon. shares hit a new high this morning. 22% of the tablet marked another new high. >> $250 and change is the all-time high for amazon. a great week for the company hitting new levels. year to date stocks up 40% so amazon is the big winner. pretty nice volume. stuart: 42 -- $2.49 for amazon.

thank you very much. the dow down 68. i am having a very hard time staying away from the late speeches at the republican national convention. paul ryan didn't finish until after 11:00. callie will mitt romney go to night? rich edson is in tampa covering all this. do you know what time he starts to speak tonight? any idea? >> sometimes in the 10:00 hour. senator marco rubio will start around:00 and introduce mitt romney. this has passed punctual. they were supposed to go at 11:00. chris christie and congressman paul ryan a little after 11:00. you have a dozen politicians going before these guys. the most long winded possible possibly on the planet. stuart: another question. we keep hearing there's going to be a mystery speaker tonight and the smart money says it is going

to be clint eastwood. that is pure conjecture. what input do you have? >> the smart money down here is also on clint eastwood. there's also speculation it could be tim tebow. not like he is scoring any touchdowns. stuart: two questions and two bout of sarcasm. stay up until past midnight. thank you very much. have a good time. here is what you are saying about the late speeches and putting on our facebook page. jessica agrees with me. i wanted to stay up and see paul ryan's speech but after working all day and i have three kids under 7 i was zonk the. too late for working mom and dad who are up with a son. i am with you. excellent e-mail. come on, old man. a few late nights won't kill you

and this is important. deal with you later. lisa agrees this is late for sure and i have to get up with the kids for school but i stayed up and will again tonight. it is worth it in my opinion. follow us on facebook and join in. do you have anything to say about this? >> i have been watching a lot overnight. i ended up getting as much as i could and at some point had to go to sleep but i have been -- it is very -- stuart: i can watch it at 4:00 in the morning. the replays. charles: doesn't matter when but you have to watch. just got to get it out. you wake up earlier than 99.9 -- stuart: moving swiftly along what lessons from ronald reagan can mitt romney learn from his acceptance speech? one thing ronald reagan did not do was focus on his opponents.

he mentioned jimmy carter seven times and a 45 minute speech back then but when he did mention mr. carter he made it count. listen to this. >> can anyone look at the record of this administration and say well done? can anyone compare the state of our economy when the carter administration took office with where we are today and say keep up the good work? can anyone look at our reduce standing in the world today and say let's have four more years of this? stuart: that is an audience response. mike reagan joins us now, author of the new reagan revolution. what lessons do you think mitt romney will take from your dad and his speech in detroit in 1980? >> i hope he spent more time listening to ronald reagan and barack obama does. if you are up late at night --

one thing you learn, make me feel your speech, not simply hear your speech. tell me stories about real americans and what they have gone through and your plan to bring them forward and make america a better place. you don't have to have a 59 point plan. reagan has a three point plan. lower taxes and end the cold war and nobody was -- nobody knows what the third one was because nobody cares. keep it simple. keep it on message and jobs and his expertise on getting us out of this and moving us forward, not backward. stuart: be positive. everyone else is bashing obama. make your point. don't make it so many times we lose the point. ronald reagan spoke to us in parable's. politicians today speak in sound bites.

tell us the parable. the young man who four years ago, the only person better off today than four years ago as barack obama. he wasn't making $400,000 four years ago. he wasn't on the golf course 160 times four years ago. he is the only one better off. stuart: people say there's a direct parallel between the election of 1980 and the election of 2012. direct parallel. great similarities. you will go along with that? >> there are great similarities and condoleezza rice made one of those, foreign policy. i was with the president of poland prior to the plane crash and november 11th, invited me to the 25 anniversary of freedom in poland. does not honor the special day for poland and he said to me why

did your president take away the missile defense system. george soros -- that is what we think. this is what this man has done. condoleezza rice talked about it. nobody knows where america stands. i got back from a european trip and europeans say michael, america can't fail. america can't afford for the -- you need to go back and wheat. as did paul ryan. stuart: the stars were in order, paul ryan in that order. >> the stars were in order. martinez is phenomenal. i will tell you tonight the stage is set for mitt romney to reintroduce himself to the united states of america and show us the person that ann romney told us about the other

night. os that person. show us the passion that saved the olympic games. he did it. now he is saving the united states of america. don't use the word die. use the word we. always see we together working together will make america a better place. he wins tonight and win the game and win the election. stuart: he will be in prime time and will speak at 7:30. >> i hear pat buchanan won't speak before him. stuart: thank you very much indeed. the republicans have put the debt front and center at the convention. we have been saying for weeks it will hit $16 trillion by the end of this month. we might be close to being dead right. washington's foremost authority on debt and taxes and how those are addressed? grover norquist joins us later

this hour. does he think things are going this way? a lot of people say condoleezza rice is the star of the rnc so far. hear the piece of her speech from last night. >> on a personal note a little girl grows up in birmingham, segregated city of the house where her parents can't take her to a movie theater or a restaurant that they have heard convinced that even if she can't have a hamburger she could be president of the united states if she wanted to be and secretary of state. stuart: charles has something to say. charles: two times i choked up. during her speech and when paul ryan talked about his mother. in both these cases the underlying thing which is my mother who grew up in alabama during a very difficult time and it is interesting because she never complained about racism. she did tell me i would have to

work harder than my white counterparts not to scare me but prepare me for life. this is the reality. don't shy away from. appearance set her up the right way. i don't want anyone talking about racism but white liberals. when i listen to black music they talk about passport and money and travel. nobody talks about this kind of stuff. every day when i flipped channels some white liberal is saying of the gop is trying to hold us back. >> they are covering all the cards. everything everybody is concerned about you have condoleezza rice covering her history and attaining anything in this country and the women's boat and immigration which with a cat and so many things and medicare with paul ryan hit with that one -- they are trying hard to get every point coverage. >> typical american success story. pull yourself by your

bootstraps. stuart: jeff flock by lake pontchartrain as isaac heads north downgraded to a tropical storm. i know you are there. tell me again how much rain have you had an visit still coming down? >> i think we still need our boots down here. we have a break in the weather but i said last time we have 12 inches of rain here in new orleans but it held. it looks like the atlantic or something out there but it is a lake. this is a flood wall and i want to give you one perspective because you are a jealous guardian of your tax dollars. look at this picture up here from a high camera. folks doing the satellite uplink. that is a homeland security vehicle purchased with a big camera on top and you see where we're standing. this is $14 billion worth of@you are looking at here and it did work. your tax dollars were well

spent. stuart: so we all did indeed build that. glad we found that out. not bad at all. thanks for great coverage throughout isaac. gas prices spiked this week and he essentially with isaac it was to blame especially in a swing state of ohio. coming up next one of our leading radio voices from cincinnati will join us. here is what he paid at the pump. $3.95 a gallon and that is going up every day. could this issues way ohio either way in the november election? you see us, at the start of the day. on the company phone list that's a few names longer. you see us bank on busier highways. on once empty fields. everyday you see all the ways all of us at us bank are helping grow our economy. lending more so companies and communities can expand, grow stronger and get back to work. everyday you see all of us serving you, around the country, around the corner.

us bank.

stuart: real movement in stock prices. dow industrials down 60 points. markets awaiting something from ben bernanke. big conference tomorrow. will he print some more dollars. oil moving $95 a barrel. we did see another spiking gas prices up $0.02 overnight. it is up $0.11. isaac has weakened to a tropical storm. could weaken even further. might not turn out to be as bad as feared except for the flooding. is expected to keep moving north. that will bring areas of the midwest hurt by the drought. we are back in 90 seconds to talk about a spike in gas in the swing states of ohio.

way up in some of the big cities. we are up $0.20 a gallon. will they have political impact? we will find out in a moment. let

stuart: look at the gas price spikes in the state of ohio. cincinnati $0.24 higher for regular. toledo $0.33 a. all this adds isaac related refineries shut down and raise

prices in the midwest. brian thomas, conservative radio talk-show host in cincinnati. who gets the blame? who wins politically from these high gas prices in ohio? >> they are not friendly to domestic energy production. the platform on which they ran. stuart: when you can't say the latest spike can be laid at the door of barack obama. >> we have a hurricane shutting down production in the gulf. we have a venezuela going off line with their production. the demand issued globally affect our prices. chicago where we get a lot of our gasoline from has a supply line problem. we clearly have a production issue and this is the guy who won't allow us to drill our own oil resources. even if new ones come on line where is the production in gasoline going to come from.

will this allow the opening of additional facilities? [talking over each other] stuart: it is a conservative talk radio show that you run. is that what callers want to talk about? >> they are angry. they are without recourse. you can talk about gas prices and people are frustrated and is impacting everybody's budget particularly the middle class. there's a sense of frustration that there's nothing you can do about it. the administration won't come to anyone's aid. it is against their global policy. stuart: can you give me tangible evidence in any poll that says the people of ohio are blaming president obama for the high gas prices and moving towards mitt romney because of high gas prices? >> absolutely not. i would be making it up but anecdotally speaking if you

listen to what callers are talking about and use that back and look at the policy of this administration, it is an inescapable conclusion that it has impact. there is no doubt that it does. stuart: regardless -- >> we did do a poll on my website end -- stuart: join us again. we appreciate you being with us. >> back to watching your show because i was interrupted. stuart: works for me. thank you. unemployment remains high. incomes falling. no real growth. i say the economy is bumping along the bottom. brian has been optimistic in the past. we ask about this next. [ female announcer ] they can be enlightening.

hey, bro. or engaging. conversations help us learn and grow. at wells fargo, we believe you can never underestimate the power of a conversation. it's this exchange of ideas that helps you move ahead with confidence. so when the conversation turns toour financial goals... turn to us. if you need anything else, let me know. wells fargo. together we'll go far. now we need a little bit more... a little bit more vanilla? this is great!

[ male announcer ] at humana, we believe there's never been a better time to share your passions because the results... are you having fun doing this? yeah. that's a very nice cake! [ male announcer ] well, you can't beat them. [ giggles ] ohh! you got something huh? whoa... [ male announcer ] humana understands the value of spending time together that's a lot of work getting that one in! let's go see the birdies. [ male announcer ] one on one, sharing what you know. let's do it grandpa. that's why humana agents will sit down with you, to listen and understand what's important to you. it's how we help you choose the right humana medicare plan for you. because when your medicare is taken care of, you can spend more time sharing your passions. wow. [ giggles ] [ male announcer ] with the people who matter most. i love you grandpa! i love you grandma! now you're a real fisherman. [ male announcer ] humana.

and waiting in line. i don't have to leave my desk and get up and go to the post office anymore. [ male announcer ] with stamps.com, you can print real u.s. postage for all your letters and packages. it gives you the exact amount of postage you need the instant you need it. can you print only stamps? no. first class. priority mail. certified. international. and the mailman picks it up. i don't leave the shop anymore. [ male announcer ] get a 4-week trial plus $100 in extras including postage and a digital scale.

go to stamps.com/tv and never go to the post office again. >> no chance anything in the republican budget would get considered. that is politics on both sides and inability of congress, republicans or democrats to compromise on something. of the one that was democrat congressman peter welch on the last hour on the president's

economic plan or lack thereof. we are covering it here. we start every morning. time for a market check. this is a triple digit loss. the dow is off 102 points. we got negative news on the employment picture and confidence yesterday. ben bernanke speaks tomorrow. we are down 102. look at gold. we are down $1.90 a around the 60 level. the price of oil, we are down $0.70 and down $94 a barrel. sears is going to be out of the s&p 500 next week so what is happening to the stock? >> it is one of the worst performers in the s&p 500. is being booted out of the s&p 500 as one of the original members going back to 1957. you have a big decline. on september 4th will be

replaced. those shares are up but surprisingly -- i didn't realize this. sears is up 80% this year. , or pull back after a fantastic day. stuart: 80%. i didn't know that. thank you. there's nothing new on the jobs front. 374,000 people filed unemployment claims last week, the same as it was the week before. still a very high number. joining the company from chicago is brian westbrook with first trust advisers. here's my characterization of the economy. we are bumping along the bottom. we are in very low gear. we are not in reverse but we are in very low gear, very little growth and it won't improvements -- much for the rest of the year. what the you say? >> we are translating what we have been saying. it is not a race horse economy. it won't win the belmont or the

preakness but it is not going to keel over and die either. lots of people think just because it is going slow means it is about to fall over. it is really fragile. we are growing slow. another way to say this is this economy is having to pull one of the biggest governments -- the biggest government the united states has ever had outside of war spending. stuart: i use saying politics will make a difference to the economist performance as we look into the future? is this election crucial for the performance of the economy? >> it is crucial for both the economy and the markets. if we go back to the 1970s it is easy to see the government was growing from the mid 60s through

the late 70s and early 80s and as the government grew we got more trouble, the stock market didn't go anywhere for 17 years and ronald reagan and even bill clinton presided over a decline in the size of government relative to our economy and the stock market and the economy boomed. there was one month in 1983 after tax cuts, after spending cuts where we created jobs, and i believe if we were to go back to those 80s and 90s policies where we shrunk government and kept tax rates low and tightened monetary policy we would have a much better economy. stuart: two scenarios. romney wins. republicans win the senate. gets tax reform and long-term

handle on entitlements. do we get 6% growth in the economy in various quarters after that or president obama gets a second term, senate stays with a slim democrat majority, we get tax increases and cuts in medicare. what is the result in terms of economic growth given those two scenarios? >> the economy is being held back by uncertainty and the weight of the economy. getting rid of that uncertainty will help us right away and by shrinking of the size of government the burden of plow horse has to carry we will see growth accelerate. i don't know about 5% or 6% growth but we could get 4% growth next year. if we were to raise tax rates and continued to grow the economy, we will be the plow horse at best.

2% growth and the present unemployment just remind everybody, france for the last 40 years 2% real growth on average, 8.1% unemployment. if you look at the united states today we are already france. we are slow-growing. we have high unemployment and that will continue forever if we don't shrink the size of government. stuart: that hurts. to be compared to france really hurts. but you did it. >> it does. stuart: i am out of time. thanks for being with us today. very interesting analysis and analogy. we appreciate it. we follow the national debt closely on "varney and company" and the republican party has listened to. putting it front and center at the convention in tampa. is that enough for grover norquist who is leading the charge against higher taxes and debt? we will ask him next. you are a powerful guy in the realm of taxation in washington.

people are afraid of you. and -- >> announcer: meet mary. she loves to shop online with her debit card, and so does bill, an identity thief who stole mary's identity, took over her bank accounts and stole her hard-earned money.

now meet jack. after 40 years, he finally saved enough to enjoy retirement. angie, the waitress at jack's favorite diner, is also enjoying his retirement. with just a little information, she's opened up a credit line, draining the equity in jack's home. unfortunately, millions of americans just like you learn all it may take is a little misplaced information to wreak havoc on your life. this is identity theft, and no one helps stop it better than lifelock. see, ordinary credit monitoring services tell you after your identity has been stolen. they may take 30 days to alert you-- too late for jack. lifelo has the most comprehensive identity theft protection available. if mary had lifelock's bank account alerts, she may have been notified in time to help stop it. if jack had lifelock's 24/7 proactive protection, he could have been alerted by phone or e-mail as soon as they noticed an attack on their network, before it was too late. lifelock has the most comprehensive identity theft protection available, guarding your social security number,

your money, your credit, even the equity in your home. while identity theft can't be completely stopped, no one works harder to protect you than lifelock. you even get a $1 million service guarantee. that's security no one can beat. you have so much to protect and nothing to lose when you call lifelock right now and get 60 days of identity theft protection risk free-- that's right, 60 days risk free-- use promo code: notme. order now and get this document shredder to keep sensitive documents out of the wrong hands-- a $29 value, free. call the number on your screen. [♪...] ♪

♪ i can do anything ♪ i can do anything today ♪ i cano anywhere ♪ i can go anywhere today ♪ la la lla la la la [ male announcer ] dow solutions help millions of people by helping to make gluten free bread that doesn't taste gluten free. together, the elements of science and the human element can solve anything solutionism. the new optimis stuart: joining the company from chicago is our next guest.

do you traders not expect ben to be announcing any money printer tomorrow? >> no i don't think he's going to announce any money printing. i would like to see ben bernanke take on the comments of the senator from new york -- i'm at a loss for words. stuart: schumer. >> on the 17th of july he said that ben bernanke should do more, that the federal reserve should get to work. i'm sorry this is a united states senator saying that the fed should get to work. by all means senator schumer please speak up and tell us what the enormous contribution of the united states congress has been in expanding our economy and getting people back to work in the united states. i think ben bernanke should tell senator schumer to sit down and be quiet and speak when spoken to. stuart: that's an interesting political point of view. so you basically don't think that ben is going to print more and he should not print more, is that your position?

>> let's just say it this way, if ben bernanke and the federal reserve had a magic wand to fix the economy and expand growth, don't you think they would have probably used it by now? i think this is congress people trying to interject into the conversation because they know they are not doing their jobs. the answer isn't the fed. stuart: i will bet you, you think that mario draghi is going to print a lot of euros. i bet you believe he's going to do that. >> i have a sneaking suspicion you would. if all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail. >> trey, you were good today. that was very very good stuff. >> except for the fact i couldn't remember senator schumer's name. i apologize. stuart: irrelevant. we will see you soon. thanks. the debt is expected to cross the 16 trillion dollars mark very soon and vp nominee paul ryan is not backing down from president obama's record. listen to this from last night. >> back in 2008, candidate obama

called a 10 trillion dollars national debt unpatriotic. serious talk from what looked like a serious reformer. yet by his own decisions, president obama has added more debt than any other president before him. and more than all the troubled governments of europe combined. stuart: you heard that loud and clear. grover norquist did. he's our guest this morning. he's with americans for tax reform. he joins us from tampa. grover, always good to see you. welcome back. >> glad to be here. stuart: do you think that the rnc is going your way? you are the point man for no tax increases and get that debt under control. are you hearing what you want to hear? >> yes, both in the platform and in the speeches from all of the governors, senators, vice presidential candidate are really making the point that we need to reduce government spending, not raise taxes. in fact, ryan laid out the game

plan. tax reform to get more economic growth and entitlement reform to bring spending down to reasonable levels, to 20% of gdp, to start with. stuart: i have to ask you this, i ask you this every time you are on the show because i really want to clear it up with everybody in our audience, you don't want any increases in tax rates. you want tax reform which is cutting tax rates, which would eventually bring in more money to the treasury, is that your position? >> correct. what we're looking for is something that looks like ronald reagan's 1986 tax reform, dramatic reductions in marginal tax rates on individuals and this time on businesses, corporations, as well, revenue neutral. no net tax increase, but if you take that top rate to 25 corporate and individual, you will have 3, 4, percent growth in years looking forward. stuart: make a political judgment. is that viewpoint resonating in

america today? >> it is to the point -- to the extent that it is getting heard. this convention allows both romney and ryan to make the case. we will either reform entitlements, everybody over 55, nothing changes. we're going to reform them so that they cost less in the future than the cost curve of government down, we're going to dramatically reduce the drag on the economy of high marginal tax rates to get serious growth. we're competing with can dark less than -- canada, less than 17% corporate tax rate, how do you do that? stuart: can you beat the demagoguery, giving the tax cuts to the rich so you can throw granny off a cliff, here it comes, can you survive that? >> yes, and for two reasons, one, that's always what the democrats say. democrats always say that republicans want to cut taxes on the rich and they always say they are going to close down medicare and social security. four years ago they had 300 million dollars more than the

republican candidate to make that case. this year, the republicans have enough money to match the democrats dollar for dollar, even with the union money, and secondly, the republicans have a written down plan. there's a limit to how much you can lie about a plan that's actually written down. nobody over 55 is affected by the medicare reforms, and yet the democrats will try and tell that lie. tougher to do when the republicans have a reform plan written down, and the democrats are still running on hope and change, nothing written down, except more debt. stuart: you know, you are not wildly popular in all republican circles. do you get any dirty looks as you walk around tampa? >> not here. here we're talking about the leaders who are moving forward on reducing taxes, never raising tax incomes. there are a couple of guys who haven't gotten the memo and think tax increases might work. we refer to them to the failures of 82 and 90. stuart: grover norquist, he knows exactly how to address the issue and you do it every time.

thank you very much grover. good to see you. >> good to see you. stuart: we have compared wisconsin and illinois before on this program. scott walker taking real measures to tackle wisconsin's budget problems. contrast that with pat quinn in illinois, his state just got a downgrade, that's illinois. we're talking about that next. it is a hot issue, so hot that they are screaming about it in the illinois statehouse. >> -- you should be ashamed of yourselves! [ male announcer ] if you have to take care of legal matters.

legalzoom has an easy and affordable option. you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support, backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself.

stuart: we now have a sharp decline for stock prices this thursday morning. the dow industrials down triple digits. jobless claims for the latest week, 374,000, worse than expected. and no improvement in the labor market. maybe that's a drag on stocks. but look at pandora, this is an internet music service. you can listen for free with commercials. or you can get pandora commercial free and pay a fee. so it works out, they're generating some money and a bright outlook too. the stock is up because it sees revenue growth down the line. remember, when the stock went public last year, it was $16 a share. look at the gap, up today, same-store sales up 9%. parents buying their kids clothes for back to school. starbucks and coach also up on the day. i call these stocks affordable

luxury. both of them nicely higher. we're back in 90 seconds. we're go back to jeff flock for the latest on isaac.

stuart: st dow is pretty close the dropping below 13,000 right at there at this moment. and isaac continues to move north. that means the floods are hitting more people. half of louisiana is without power as we speak. let's get back to jeff flock in lake pontchartrain. it looks like it's calmed down.

would you say the worst has passed you, jeff? jeff: i would say so. we just for the first time in two days saw the sun just a moment ago, and that is good news. i just talked to a guy who is headed out on a sea plane today to survey the oil and gas rigs out there. so the weather is calm enough to do that. that's good news for i think oil prices. and i will show you that picture that i promised you last time, if we can. go ahead, michael, and take it. this is where we are, up on the levee, $15 billion worth of levee. stuart: the whole levee system cost 15 billion. jeff: the whole levee system is 15 billion, not just for the one i'm standing on. stuart: that was government money well spent, can you and i agree on that, jeff flock? jeff: yes, sir, i think that's one thing we can agree on, absolutely right sir. stuart: there are a few others too.

your work during isaac was really terrific. you put yourself right out there. and our viewers were simply amazed at the conditions that you brought to us. it was great stuff. jeff flock, thank you very much indeed. jeff: i have a great team. thank you for acknowledging the team. i appreciate it very much, sir. stuart: come on back home. okay? good luck. standard and poors downgrades the illinois debt rating yesterday because of its inability to cut public employee pensions. now, wisconsin's governor, scott walker, he's taking a shot at his neighboring state. here's the governor's statement: i'm quoting, there could not be a more stark contrast between wisconsin and illinois. political leaders in illinois kicked the can down the road, raised taxes, ignored fiscal realities, now they are realizing the consequences of their actions. credit downgrades and negative outlooks. your response to that is what, nicole petallides? nicole: i'm going to refer to charles. charles: i think the government was being kind. what they really wanted to say was listen -- i think the

governor was being kind. i think he should have said, people work for one to two years and they get to live off the taxpayer for the rest of their lives, it can't be done. illinois, 85 billion dollars shortfall. now the second lowest credit rating outside of another state, california. it's absolutely heart breaking because people who live in these states. you talk about you want more teachers. you want more policemen. this is the platform. if you want this, then why don't you make the necessary adjustments so that everyone can have a better life? stuart: they are spiralling down. as they are downgraded, they have to pay more to borrow money. charles: they have to pay a lot more. may have to pay additional 1.5 million for each 100 million they borrow. if you are talking 85 billion, this is a whole lot of money. stuart: that's a huge extra amount of interest you have to

pay in the future. that's a spiral down. charles: it wasn't about kicking the can down the road. it was still about redistribution of taxpayer money into unions. nicole: when you're raising your children, are you supposed to try and have them to go to these jobs where they get these pensions and payouts for the rest of their lives. you try and raise your children to be anything you want, be great and go for great things or should you say live off the system, go for these jobs, you will get paid forever. stuart: the writing is on the wall, those jobs won't be around forever. we're off 115 points as we speak. maybe this is speculation that ben will not print money in his announcement tomorrow. maybe that's it. my take on public versus private debt is next.

stuart: illinois's debt downgraded yet again. the national debt within days of hitting 16 trillion dollars. government red ink has rightly made headlines. but here's my take on private debt. the money owed by you and i. did you know it's been going down? yes, it has. we collectively are 1.3 trillion dollars less than we did -- owe 1.3 trillion dollars less than we did four years ago. we put our personal house in better order. it was very painful. much of the debt reduction came

from people losing their homes or their credit cards or their cars, but we did it. oh, what a contrast with our spending government. have you seen any pain for the feds? have you seen any reining in of spending? certainly not. this administration does not admit to any spending. no, we don't spend. this administration invests. we invested in solyndra, general motors, united auto workers union, teacher pensions and gsa parties in vegas. our government opened the spigots to supposedly stimulate the economy and now that it's clearly failed it say wes can't stop because -- it says we can't stop because if we did, it would hurt the economy. so we're left with government spending. we controlled ourselves. our government deliberately did not. that's what has to change. 15 seconds to comment. charles: sounds like a drug dealer 101, you get them hooked,

then you can't get them off. nicole: paul ryan made a great point talking about the president, was looking at 10 trillion for the debt and only to see it now going to the 16 mark, and right, we have to curb in our spending and they should do the same. stuart: thank you. the highlight reel. it is next. want to try to crack it? yeah, that's the way to do it!

now we need a little bit more... a little bit more vanilla? this is great! [ male announcer ] at humana, we believe there's never been a better time to share your passions because the results... are you having fun doing this? yeah. that's a very nice cake! [ male announcer ] well, you can't beat them. [ giggles ] ohh! you got something huh? whoa... [ male announcer ] humana understands the value of spending time together that's a lot of work getting that one in! let's go see the birdies. [ male announcer ] one on one, sharing what you know. let's do it grandpa. that's why humana agents will sit down with you, to listen and understand what's important to you. it's how we help you choose the right humana medicare plan for you.

because when your medicare is taken care of, you can spend more time sharing your passions. wow. [ giggles ] [ male announcer ] with the people who matter most. i love you grandpa! i love you grandma! now you're a real fisherman. [ male announcer ] humana. stuart: we have got it ready so roll it, the highlight reel. >> i am having a very hard time staying awake for these late speeches at the republican national convention. >> it is really very late. stuart: paul ryan didn't finish until after 11:00. >> this has passed for punctual. stuart: how late will romney go tonight? >> you have about a dozen politicians going before these guys. the most long-winded people possibly on the planet. [laughter] charles: doesn't matter when, but you have to watch. stuart: oh you're so perfect, aren't you? >> let me repeat that,