lou: chris wrote on facebook, mixed remarks about government dependents under fire. how quickly people are dead get about obama's remarks about trivial things like missile defense. fred said that mitt romney has nothing to apologize for. he had a magnificent display of character. thank you for being with us, good night from new york. neil: this just in. worse than we thought. you remember the health care mandate, the one that the supreme court said was okay? well, this is the one that says you either have health insurance by year 2016 or you will have to pay a penalty. the cbo is estimating that at least 6 million americans will have to pay that, as he. not the 4 million they were estimating as recently as yesterday. this is a number that reflects what people are going to do by the year 2016. we are in 2012.

it is getting worse. this mandate is getting pricier. the former director douglas holtz eakin. that is a big shopper and an added expense to something that needs to seem to be adding is it as a big surprise. >> cbl is up 50%. looking inside that increase, source number one is a bad economy, which the cbo projects. that means a lot of people out there. the affordable care act said it was illegal and it is a bad

economy and you get a bad outcome. and that's where we are. neil: it presupposes that if you are working, you will have health care coverage. there is no guarantee that your employer will provided or that he or she will suffer the penalty because it's cheaper than providing you the coverage. how expensive do you think this thing gets? >> estimates of the full 10 years of spending is about $2.6 trillion. i will be shocked if it turns out this is anything close to budget neutral. i think it will create deficits when we have deficits in baghdad. the affordable care act is not, in my view, and we will see that as the years progressed. >> salute the concerts leading content exceeding what we thought, usually you have to adjust something. but normally, the medicare

surtax, for any of those making an extra $250,000. something that could take the top rate, assuming it goes back up to 30 or 45% or maybe more. a real possibility beyond what we are planning for this. >> i think that is a real possibility. this already has several poorly designed taxes in it. it has a tax on investment income for those above 200,000 it has an extra payroll tax for those in income. it has a tax on a medical device manufacturer. 3.5% tax. most people believe it will hurt their insurance companies that quite frankly the worst designed taxes have never seen in the years i've studied these things. they tend to raise the taxes,

which are the damaging in an economic impact, this is going to prove to be not just a problematic health bill, it is bad economic policy to prove that works read. >> the administration has been touting. and that is whether you are forced to get the insurance for the employer is providing it, everyone comes into the system is going to drive the cost down. where is the map that? >> supposedly, the idea is we get more young and healthy people into the system, they don't cost very much, and they, as a result, subsidized the older sicker premiums they go down. continue to see health costs rise. if health care costs are going up, insurance costs are going up, i see no evidence whatsoever that this bill is just going to be anyone's bottom line built. >> it is amazing. when you look at the particulars of this. we are still going to be looking at 30 million.

even allowing for the 6 million people who are going to have to pay the penalty. the whole idea behind us, making sure everyone was injured. it is amazing. david, thank you. douglas holtz eakin. okay, ralph nader, i do want to give it to that, but i do want your reaction first, ralph. because corporations are going to have to pick up health care costs in the future. is everyone screwed? >> to go for the full medicare single-payer system. free choice of doctor and hospital, better outcomes and other western countries allow that free choice, half of the price that we are paying per

capita instead of $8500 per capita, 50 million people uninsured and are very complex in a system -- we have a simple system and cutting up cabinet in half. enormous abolitionist administrative bureaucratic costs, nothing can compare with the single-payer or medicare and that's why that is why a majority of doctors and nurses and the american people repeatedly have favored that. neil: all right,. >> is it fair to say that ralph nader is not a fan of the law? to make a bad situation worse or more great? >> it makes the cost spiral of the insurance company in the hospital trade wars. it does cover a number of millions of people is a few good of loss prevention and cost control. it is immensely complex, and when it is complex,.

>> that many more coming into the system come i understand more paying in, and that they are not all sick and water young comics were to keep the costs down. but now you have pushed on the system, those were maybe the very best of goals here. you cannot expect them to pay in and have to take more for it. >> it has been proven by our closest allies. neil: and we have a pool of over what mitt romney has said.

extremist taking control of this. for example, he has said 47% each know a lot of the unemployed, social security people, but 100% of the top biggest 500 corporations in america are dependent on the government. a variety of government welfare, subsidies, bailouts, handouts, giveaways. among the top 35,000 richest americans. paid no federal income tax last year. neil: but the bigger point -- you write about whether you should a lot of these folks are paying our taxes. i don't even want to debate that now. but i do and ask you this, does the 46-point something percent say something about our country? a lot of this spurred by this

and got us to the point where some are not paying any income taxes at all. how did we get to that figure being in the 20th and now it is approaching 50? more poverty, for example, it was very much vigorously propose and by ronald reagan himself as a historical record.

neil: the only reason i raised yesterday is because you're going to have to bring the taxes down. so what happens? if you are paying taxes, what? >> you have a good public works program instead of bailing out crooks out wall street, and repairing america and every community and have good paying jobs, can be exported to china, they are going to pay federal income tax. but the rich have got to pay their fair share. >> we are paying most of the taxes now and we know to have fun paying any taxes at all. is that fair? >> you know the numbers. 3% or more. leaving aside the fact, you're

right, they're out there. >> general electric and all of these companies. hear me out. neil: that is not going to make up for the 50%. >> it's going to produce billions of dollars if the top corporations paid their fair share of taxes, statutorily instead of all these loopholes and tax havens, it would be another $80 billion per year. if they paid it at the rate. >> you made that number up. >> no, no, no. citizens for tax justice, look at us, very accurate, if we had a speculation -- [talking over each other] [talking over each other] >> you are also savvy to get numbers that you can't prove we met i can prove every number that i am saying. >> are you basing that on every company paying that, at least

30%? were you basing that on. >> the statutory, which is a little bit over 30%. instead, they are paying half or less of the statutory rate and large companies. >> if that was taken away, then they would be less inclined to do that, right? and they may not be as productive and they might not yield as much in tax-writing. >> you are making apologies for crony capitalism. >> if you're going to tax me more, i'm going to produce less. >> they will rely on themselves. they won't be so dependent upon government and they won't be so many. [talking over each other] [talking over each other] >> we are not getting from the 50% getting nothing. >> let's put it this way. what mitt romney did yesterday is going to destroy his campaign unless he finds some new strategy of recovery. you cannot say as president of my job is not to worry about 47%

of the american households to become president. >> we know we live in a 5050 world right now. he said my job is -- [talking over each other] [talking over each other] >> there are people who will vote for the president. 47% of the american people who are giving government social security, that is ridiculous two but there is nothing ignorant about saying that those who yet get stuff from the government are more inclined to support the guy who likes the government and the guy who wants to assemble the government. >> how come corporate executives are circling the teat of washington dc? how come they are not voting for the government?

they're voting against the government. i debated ronald reagan once and he admitted graciously that he goes around the country, before he became president, and he tells corporate executives to stop putting your hands on the washington job. stop relying on corporate welfare. >> to be fair to your point, among the things he talked about and those were the loopholes and alliances that some of them pay nothing. >> a lot of the republican extremists today have said openly that they wouldn't vote for ronald reagan today. neil: ralph nader, it's always good to have you. >> coming up next, here is something that mitt romney should not feel good about. people are feeling good about the economist and chicago teachers are about to get into

schools. he would get you into hammer. how washington and cooled on business as americans interest held for many, nexium helps relieve heartburn symptoms caused by acid reflux disease. osteoporosis-related bone fractures and low magnesium levels have been seen with nexium. possible side effects include headache, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. talk to your doctor about nexium.

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neil: a fox business alert. goldman sachs saying that tupper rules and requirements are not. he also acknowledges that regulations to tie could be costly. they pay you how much for this incredible wisdom? >> meanwhile, the land of the free, is not looking so great. a new report showing that the u.s. is looking to 18 in countries like denmark and

finland. dropping 15 places since 2000. he says america should be number one. this country was founded on free market capitalism. our founding fathers believed that over the years, that has changed. here we are today. ten years ago we were number three and we were complaining about that. here we are, number 18. we are behind some african

countries, some middle east countries, we are behind some european social democracy countries. so we have lost it. it is because of all the regulations and the layers of regulations that have been added. neil: but this is more than regulation. we are now considered to be an inhospitable environment. and people used, literally because we were and we lost that. again, countries like denmark, beautiful countries if you've ever seen him. but i mean, man, that's not good. >> no, it's terrible. businesses today face regulations at the federal level with whatever comes out of congress and all the government agencies and the executive branch. and then every state, 50 states worth of legislative branches, executive branches. every county, every local. we have it coming at us from so many different angles that we can keep up. neil: the one thing that i have

learned, but if you watch a lot of -- but they have been telling me is that this is ex potentially gone up over the last four or five years. to the point now where ignorance is not a defense. if you violate regulations, you're going to have to pay dearly for it. >> that is -- that's not good. what is happening is you have millions of people out there every day is trying to do the right thing, take care of your customers,, take your shareholders from and you have all this regulation, new laws being deployed everyday. it's very costly to keep up. right now i think that the people are gun shy. you have $2 trillion worth of corporate text sitting on the sidelines. everybody is standing back and asking what is going on. the grounds are shifting from the rules keep changing.

all of a sudden, the rest came out and they say we are going to change it again because of the rules of the game. it is simply more personal. neil: is of the regulations or the taxes? which would they like to do? >> look, you have dodd-frank, the affordable healthcare act were the rules are still being written, all of that on top of were the rules were coming for years,, you have that and then you have the tax situation, we have the highest corporate tax rates in the world. yes, you have some loopholes, but they wrote some loopholes in. they are following the law. we need simplification here, we need certainty. once you have that, then i think the tax orders can be created in

the economy will take up the matter what we do know? you were just at office depot. no, seriously, thank you very much, steve. >> it's great to be here. >> you have 10,000 of these in the last couple weeks. how is the small business can keep up with that? two out of three of us socioeconomically. but his mitt romney mistaking it for an oncoming trend? the capital one cash rewards card

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neil: enough fox financial flash. holdings are breaking more ground on homes in august. best numbers we have seen since april of 2010. construction and sales considered below what is considered a healthy market. the people are saying the economy is getting better to them. things are looking up. still, better than expected and a trend that the president calls a great trend. let's ask lori rothman. who is keeping a very close eye on the nations economy. >> let's look at the costs. it was a pretty easy costs. the survey is part of the consumer survey. yes, 64% of respondents say that their personal finances are

stable or improving. compare that when you only had 34%. that is still like a failing grade. it is not a meaningful thing. >> who does this benefit, which canada. the real comparison is that only 64% of people are doing better and feeling better about things. that's not a homerun. who does it benefit? obama, maybe a little bit, but the problem for romney is the real stuff that is going to rob the economy -- after the election, the spending cuts or tax hikes that we have come to refer to as the this new clip. that'll happens on january 1. because of the care of the federal reserve. i think we have a stage set for an inflationary rate environment

>> i think we, as a nation, have gotten to crappy economic numbers. there was a time when you would be creating 644 or 5000 jobs a month. he would see housing that would be triple the level we were looking at. we are grateful if they are not less than that. we have gotten used to the notion that numbers are so bad that when you come out with housing, home sales, existing or otherwise, that there were worse levels that we are used to. it might be good enough for an incumbent. >> it is the new normal. what is interesting also about the survey is that people are less concerned about the near-term expense needs than the long-term. the one thing that is still of the most concern to them is their retirement statement. a lot of people feel better,

wealth created by the federal reserve. creating a boost for the stock market. your 401k looks better. existing home sales were just a blockbuster today. such a big improvement. a 7.8% gain. the housing market most people agree is now bouncing off the bottom. that is promising. neil: i can see your point. if you look at how your investors are doing, then you go to these websites that show that your home is no longer losing value every month. he gives you a sense of everything. >> prices are in regards to all of last year. the unemployment rate went down, as we both know, as we have been talking about for a couple of weeks. it is a terrible problem that is not being improving and so far,

with this administration, it has just been dismal. neil: we shall see. lori rothman, thank you so much. in the meantime, it you should see how they are blasting jesus. forget a stupid film that is based on nothing. the big hit is on jesus and it is based on history. no one is killing anyone because of it. we will make what we canada coming up next when i found out my irregular heartbeat put me at 5 timesgreater risk o, my first thoughts were about my wife, and my family. i have the most commonype of atrial fibrillation, or afib.

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neil: jesus had a wife. warlike timeout. let that big biblical bombshell sink in. the christian world over and all

abuzz over referring to a jesus who had a wife. it is true that half the religious world cause it's savior supposedly had a wife. a second provocative clause says she will be able to bemy disciple. all right, now there is a lot of dispute here and you might want to ask why bother with any of this right now, this much is not an excuse. not a single catholic or protestant or baptist or any christian of any sort, anywhere in this world today have so much at stake to unearth this potential new testament game changer today. something that fundamentally change to the court everything

christians have come to believe about jesus christ. now, i want you to talk about that and reactions to the ridiculous film "the innocence of muslims" about the prophet muhammad after illustrations set off new outrage by muslims. it's triggered the murder spree, one could very well be the historical facts and it set off more than spiritual solstice. not that she's as potentially being married to change his good works and good deeds and make them any less of profit, a profit, and for many, still a good savior. anymore and amateurs than the portrayals of the prophet muhammad. i think that the prophet muhammad wouldn't stand for it, with or without a wife, jesus would not tolerate it.

we live in a world that offends, my friends, but that doesn't mean that we kill because we are offended. look at jews who refuse to go on murdering sprees when their cemeteries are repeatedly defaced. or buddhist when the temples are attacked. those who kill in the name of god, whatever their god, even if they don't have one, please stop. good god, at least the chicago kids are back in the classroom. good for chicago mayor rahm emanuel. or is it? let's just say if the new mayor was in charge, the strike wouldn't be pretty. maybe because if you were running the show, i'm guessing that strike might've never happened in the first place. >> i am the mayor of this city and i can show you so.

i will not be questioned

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neil: this new fox poll just in. showing that the president is doing well in three swing states. leading mitt romney in florida, ohio, and virginia, instead of focusing on mitt romney, maybe president obama should be focusing on the brand. a press pool from florida said that 76% said that i ran well on terrorist with nuclear weapons to attack america. then again, the president is leading in those states. turbine makers adding 615,000

jobs. a green energy tax credit by the end of the year. in the windy city, students and teachers are back at school after a weeklong strike. rahm emanuel calling the agreement and honest compromise. might next guest says he's not so sure. unions would probably be running scared, do you agree? [inaudible] i didn't know that you had all that anger in you. all your parts have been affable, low-key, etc. >> he is a fighter. and i have never played a fighter before. it is definitely his first batch of cisco to response in almost any situation of a fight. it is a knee-jerk thing. neil: are you putting rahm emanuel? >> i am not playing rahm emanuel. he asked me the same question and i said no.

it is not on the former mayor or on the mayor rahm emanuel. neil: it's not a combination? >> a combination of the history of mayors in a city like the windy city. a city of men of big egos who think they control the whole town. he believes he does, yes. neil: what about mayors and governors these days to well, you never know, they might -- [talking over each other] [talking over each other] neil: maybe chris christie of new jersey? >> maybe. but i'm not really conversing about what he does. neil: i know you are politically republican. you don't make a big deal of it. i'm less inclined now after the clintons one thing after the convention. >> oh, i like that. i think he was an apt metaphor.

and it was something that i kind of embraced and something that was fun. you know, people who were being attacked and politics tend not to have a sense of humor. you see why the reaction went so virulent against mr. eastwood read. >> i thought it was very funny. i thought he was very charming. after the killing of our ambassador stevens last week, i thought maybe there were more than one empty chairs. neil: that's interesting. but you don't go out of your way to get overtly political heated or do the jon wertheim red white? >> well, jon voight has a passion he feels like it's more important for him to be vocal about what he feels. neil: do you believe like he does, that this country is slipping away? >> certainly the country is

changing. i don't know if it is changing for the dead. so i have questions that are serious and i am alarmed and concerned. i am nervous. neil: would you be alarmed if the president was being reelected? >> just. in context from you have to look at that political pragmatism. i know i have attended one of those fundraisers. another context for that basic conversation is to say that i was in california at the time and say that you won't see a mitt romney campaign out here. we know that it is a waste of our money. the context of that conversation, about 47 and or 48, whatever, going for that crucial middle chunk of people is based upon the fact that the alignment of voters tend to be already solidified. can you see him winning?

oh, gosh, i don't know. i don't take this personally. but i guess some people want to. neil: that's a very good answer. the media gets a little bit overblown with stuff like this because they are so invested in the outcome. it is clear that that is true. and fox news takes it for being invested in the opposite outcome. neil: regardless of your views, which are strong, they haven't hurt your career or reputation. >> there have been moments. neil: do any of them ever say, well, i'm not going to help that guy out? unit well -- [laughter] [talking over each other] >> nonny moore, neil. neil: you were taking that advice. i told you that that jinxing was going to be a problem. [laughter] but it hasn't hurt you. >> i did invest in when company. spent a lot of money on a small

wind turbine. no attention was paid. neil: finding it hard to believe. kelsey grammer, thank you so much. despite everything, thriving in hollywood. lots of changes and lots of confusion. that is why companies are saying that health care law is going to have lots of problems. the startling news that we want to follow up on the cruise they might be.

neil: we already told you about how people will get hit by the health care law and we are hearing that the rollout of the law has some serious flaws. but it's already over budget, back in content behind behind schedule, and 6 million americans will be hit by the

penalty of paying for because they don't have coverage of their own. that is why a lot of businesses are fuming as well. barry sloan that it is getting so bad. what are small businesses doing than? >> they are speaking for all the advisers. they are speaking for their accountants and lawyers and the benefits and brokers. neil: do we know what's going on? >> no, they are looking for advice and the experts don't have the advice because the law is being solidified. neil: from your vantage point, the support of the government -- 6 million are going to have to suck up the penalty. that could be more red what is a guy like you to do? >> you know, that is the problem, neil. we don't know what to do. i belong to a small business owners association. we meet on a monthly basis. nobody knows what to do. unless you have an army of lawyers, you have extra money lying around to be able to pay

for expert advice, you are clueless. we know that premiums are rising. i have to generate over $60,000 in new sales this year. i have an empty desk instead of hiring somebody, i have to pay the extra premiums because of obamacare. but i have no clue what else is going to hit me. so i am not hiring. i am reluctant to raise the salaries. i'm reluctant to expand. my clients are the same way. my suppliers are the same way. neil: so does that offset -- more people are talking about where we're going, they think that we are over the worst, a lot of folks are saying that. >> sure. neil: what you say. >> this level of uncertainty is affecting us in a big way. putting a wet blanket over everything. they can't project going forward, they are reticent about hiring and what effect this will

take. there are estimates that this is $3 trillion of spending over the course of the next five or 10 years and they really want to shrink government. small business owners want to see government smaller and not bitter. neil: i raised this earlier. if you had a choice, i can cut your taxes or i can pay regulations, what would you say? >> without a doubt, regulations for my clients and myself and everyone i know. the regulations are the ones that are creating the greatest harm to growth and business expansion. you know, i have had 35 years of small business. during that time, i have had to navigate regulations and epa's and ftc and all kinds of government interference. never before has it been like this.

>> be one no, you are right that it has gone up red we see this regulation environment, where you make of it? >> well, i think that cathleen sebelius, she continues to sebelius, she continues her main opposition is going to be one powerful lady. she is going to have tremendous efforts to lobby her and to drive the actual favor of a lot of different groups and others. we will have a lot of cronyism going on among them. the. neil: we will see, we are hearing from folks who think just the opposite. this video help unclench it seems they haven't been moving much lately. but things are starting to turn around because of business people like you. and regions is here to help. with the experience and service to keep things rolling.

from business loans to cash management, we want to be your partner moving forward. so switch to regions. and let's get going. together.

now we need a little bit more... a little bit more vanilla? this is great! [ male announcer ] at humana, we believe there's never been a better time to share your passions... because the results... are you having fun doing this? yeah. that's a very nice cake! [ male announcer ] well, you can't beat them. [ giggles ] ohh! you got something huh? whoa... [ male announcer ] humana understands the value of spending time together that's a lot of work getting that one in! let's go see the birdies. [ male announcer ] one on one, sharing what you know. let's do it grandpa. that's why humana agents will sit down with you, to listen and understand what's important to you. it's how we help you choose the right humana medicare plan for you. because when your medicare is taken care of, you can spend more time sharing your passions. wow.

[ giggles ] [ male announcer ] with the people who matter most. i love you grandpa! i love you grandma! now you're a real fishman. [ male announcer ] humana. neil: let the debate began. mitt romney did himself a favor. now get it out in the open. how much government do we want? a lot? lot less? he gave up on have americans getting something from that government. if you are a fan of getting something from the government you did not like what he had to say. if not you like what he had to say. that is the debate. have at it if have about get

something from the government no way we will vote for mitt romney. chris christie tough love targeting repentance has him up popularity with union households where maybe you did heads but to teachers and firemen realize their pensions and benefits are also going. go to the guy who will fix things then leave you in effects. i suspect romney they are not monolithic. they know the numbers do not add up. leavitt to the man who