welcome. is buying out public workers the best way to save taxpayer cash? >> it's a great way to do that. from the private sector we know it works. l the public pension plans are massively underfunded, based on 8% return and they'r getting 4 or 5%, some less. calipers mssivelily underfunded. it's good-bye u.s.a., hell greece if we're not careful. >> the concern is that we're going end up with fewer state workers. oh no, smaller government is beer in my book so if we're going to save money and shrink governmentit sounds like a home run. i hope they're doing enough. >> christian, you're worried we the government might lose out on valuablable employees. >> absolutely. it's not just about having smaller government is about having smart, efficient government. size is relave to value if the buyouts succeed in losing

talented employees the short term bottom lining gain may be long term public sector pain in terms of what services we taxpayers get. this is a tool. it can bused. i'm not saying you can't pursue buyouts but to think it's a magic bullet is wrong-headed. >> christian, you know more is not necessarily good. i mean washington, for example, d.c. increased their hiring in vernment jobs by 38,000 people in the last three years. by the way, he can't overcome the deficit in hiring just by doing tag. >> you know that the federal employee roles are smaller than under president reagan so we have smaller government. >> wait. >> the war on the president -- >> but let's get down to -- jonathan you said you might as well take the moneyow while

it's still there. >> private corporations do this all the time and workers are better off because the pensions they count on are gone once the you no what hits the fan and the company is insolvent. 100 largest pensions have $1 trillion in unfind the liability. take the deal and work long term for -- let's shrink the size and scope of governmen and get back to the constitutional role then you'll never need a buyout and -- >> john, alabama gvernor offering this deal basically offering healthcare payments or to take $1000 cash. it's not a tonf money. is it worth considering? >> of course it's worth considering because the deal might not be there. look cities are spending 41% of their revenue coming from the state. they're not balancing their budget. the federal government has 40%

of theirudg they're borrowing from other countries. once you haveny type of austerity measures in place you'll feel it at the local level. take the money now because it may not be there later. to the state's point of view you eitheray them now or pay through unemployment so it's a win-win for the states. >> christian, you can't deny our pension funds are broke. so get the people out while you can. maybe you don't have to pay them. >> it's one too. it may be useful in a lot of ciumstances but again, i would like to remind everybody government employees prove valuable public services. it's not just a matter of items on a balance sheet. >> you're talking -- >> you want to make sure -- if i can finish that you provide services in the most efficient way for taxpayers. if you end up buying out -- >> let him -- >> providing that benet, then that's a problem. >> jonathan. >> nothing efficient about

government spending, especially in areas which have no role. >> oh come on. >> oh come on? government has spent far past -- we're insolvent, especially in areas like healthcare, education and science in which it has no constitutional role. talk about needing valuable government employees, make them more valuable available. >> we have to get wayne in. he's eating his pen over here. >> don't eat your pen wayne. >> but christian you know there are cases -- these are facts. you can't -- you have to ghee argue with the facts. municipalities have privatized eir fire fire departnts, or their security departments things like that and it's cheaper. don't tell me they're doing a better job and they're doing it for less money. it's not true. >> melissa you seem to have had a rotten exrience at the dm >> i w sent from one to anothe for six hours just to

get plates renewed but tat's another ax to grind. the post office needs who shed hundreds of thousands of employees, they're burdened with legacy costs a lot of them pension and healthcare related. they hit the -- it feels like a trillion but a billion dollars limit. they can't borrow more money and can't run it the wait is. it's a place they should spend less, let people retire and trim there. this from a woman to supports the post offe. >> i love the post office. >> i'm surprised. >>hey need to slim down like all the government it needs to be smaller to work. spend less,ewer employees. >> let me say one other thing if'm a worker, i think i want is because i don't trust my government. they could b broke. i could be in the streets like the greeks. give me the money and let me go home and work with it. >> johnathan. >> it's a great point. the sooner we attend to these problems, the sooner we can fix them.

we let them go for decades and they blow up like greece spain or other collectivist states. >> i'll come live down by you, right? >> come live with me in bermuda. what melissa says about the post office is right they need to lay off 200,000 people. this is going on in cities and stat. christian, you don't want to get rid of talented workers but they don't have the money. san bernardino is laying off school crossing guards. a lot of money comes from pensions and the assumings that 8.5% nobody's making that. >> christian, could it -- codn't you argue that people taking a buyout could prevent a bailout down the road? >> look, i'm not against buyouts in all circumstance. i just suggest it's not the

magic to solving state fiscal woes. the reason pensions are underfunded is because of poor decisions. to think if we pursue this path where all of a sudden we're going to get governmentat's providing great cost effective rvice is not necessarilyrue. >> wayne, last word. >> i've side it. i think the proof is in the pudding. we know if you could privatize certain things -- john makes a point. there are five cities in the state of california that have gone bust. you can't just keep making this up. this is a solution a good solution for the workers a good solution for the cities, a good solution forhe taxpayer. >> i say we take the buyout and go live in bermuda. >> come join me. >> it's a one thingoth presidential candidates agree on more government job traing programs. who should pick up the b? xpayers or the companies looking to fil those positions?

plus nearly half of the money states got in a housing rescu plan not going to rescue homeowners. why isomeone

provide job training. >> we're going to make sure people have the skills to success. >> retrain workers for workers to get retrained. for the bs that are out there right now. >> fixing or our training programs for workers. >> what do you know, president obama and governor mitt romney actually agr on something.

both say america needs mo government job training programs. something private companies are cutting back on. johnathan, you sayorporate america, not taxpayers should train workers. >> i almost threw up in my mouth a little bit. the same governmen that failed at educating kids want to educate adults. forget for a moment the fact it's mentioned nowhere in the constitution -- companies for decades have done this from henry ford to wal-mart, which has an extensive programhat helps a lot of people. what governor romney should have said is government's role is a policeman, not a school marm. >> wayne, shou the government train your workers in the bridal industry? maybe teach them to sew lace. we used to be a garment center in new york.

it went oveeas by virtue of competition. as a result you caot find in the city of new york good pattern makers people who take a design and make it into a dress so you have to train them educate them. but here's the problem, we have lost a generation of that. mothers don't give their daughters -- teach them to sew. >> or their sons. >> or their sons or design or anything. it's a good example. yes we need it and private industries should do the training. >> christian, it seems both the president and mitt romney think the government should pay for this kind of stuff. >> they probably agree it should be both government and private sector working together. put brass tax out there. other competitors around the world, do you think they don't invest in government job training for workers to make sure they compete in the industry that dominate the economy? e short answer is of course.

if we don' want to fall behind we need do the same. government and private sector workers. just because - jonathan most things we do today are not in the constitution. the constitutional writers were not as purist about the constitution not adapting to the times as you are, my friend. >> wait. let me bring melissa into this. >> well. >> let me bring melissa in hang on. melissa, we have kids in the school system n theory, they're going grow up and learn something. aren't we sort ofaying for it? >> we already pay for training. it's called high school an we're not doing a good job. when did we get away from vocational strange? i love learning arts and humanities but we have to train kids to be able to go out and find a job. figure out what they're good at and what their career is gog to be. we start in high school by aining kids for the jobs of

tomorrow. >> john, you work with high school kids all the time. what do you think? >> i'm learning how to sew right knewn bermuda. yeah, i work with high school -- >> that's not a joke somebody's going to hear thatnd go out and learn. that's what america's all about. >> sewing in bermuda. the next industry. >> it's the next hot outsourced industry. i work with high school kids every day. iell them youave to get a degreehat maers. we're losing jobs in the united states not because of competitiveness butheeck engineers in china, they have the ability to get a workforce. we're losing that. we're having ki getting worthless liberal arts and political science degrees when they aren't trained to do anything. >> math and science and engineering. >> outsource over theext decade because we don't have people in techs.

>> jonathan. >> pushing kids is forced. i'm against pushg anyone. that's not government's role. if there's a job it needs training for let the company who has the job do the training. oh, jonathan. >> no. >> oh what? >> wait. he doesn'tave to be the government. >> it's up to parents. >> i work with kids every day. >> let me get wayne in here. >> when they don't have a focus, all you do is tellhe kids look, if you don't care about what you're going to do get a degree in sciencend math. that's advising a kid. that's what a parent does. if the parent is not ther >> exactly. exactly. >> wait. wayne. >> what a parent does. >> i have to throw to wayne because who is paying for this? i understand what everyone's sayi government ororporate america. >> this is not a throwback but a traditional thing. somebody apprenticed fo a job. >> and government had zero to do to do with it.

>> that should go on today in industry and be paid for by the employers. if i have ten people i have jobs for, i have workers who can train those people. that'sutting brass tax out there. weon't have to make 'em. >> we can sew right here in the united states. darn it. >> all right, coming up. >> good luck wit that. >> call it a housing rescue switcharoo. lawmakers spending money from a mortgage bailout to rescue mortgages and someone here says at's great. huh? find out why.

>> turns out half of the money states got from the mortgage selement with the banks not going to rescue homeowners, it's bailing out state budgets. melissa you say it could be a better use of money? >> bear with me. i'm going to turn into the punchingag but the only thing to solve the housing crisis is time foreclosures, more jobs and the economy getting better. there's no program the government can setp to make the housing crisis better. why not let them use the money to pay off the dumb stuff they committedo. don't encourage government to get bigger creating programs who help homeowners. this is a better use of the money. it's not what it was meant for but it's damages so they have the right to d it.

it's a bter use of the money. >> the money was supposed to go to hmeowne and it's not. only a billion of the 2.5 go to the homeowners. >> right. i have to say i agree with melissa. even if wnt to the homeowners it wouldn't solve the crisis. it's shady going f a different purpose. in ourulture the notion i it's public money. wherever it goes to help the greater good is great. theft theft, always immoral and destructive. >> it's not theft there's wiggle room. john, these people were hoping to get something back. >> yeah, but you can categorize it however you want. the money was to go to homeowners. if you think let's do something better, that's what the money was supposed to go to. the lotteries in the southern states, they said we'll help the education system. they put it in the general fund.

sa in the 1960's. if you see a dime on the floor a politician is going to take it and use it for whatever he wants. to me, that's wrong. i don't care if it's legal it's wrong. >> wayne, you have a smile on your face. >> i don't know why you expect anything else. they're going to take the money anytime and use it for anything they want. public be dammed. it's our fault because we elect them. they take the money and do wat they want. >> christian, does it prove it was bad to begin with? >> no it was to deal with fraud in the mortgage itry that affected homeowners. i have to agree with john and many others who said look homeowners were supposed to receive some benefit from this. the suit was brought on their behalf to win an award based on their behalf and not to use money to assist them is absolutely immoral. it's irresponsible.

ile i understand some money should go to general funds because the housing collapse affected everybody, the majority of in a money should be for foreclosure assistance and homeowner relief. >> it was a bank job a robber of money from bas. the whole thing isidiculous. >> hopefully we see the end of this disaster soon. christian, dorsey we love having you on. thanks for joining us. >> good job, trace y thank you >> coming up, something both pridential candidates agree on cutting corporate taxes to bring jobs back to america.

saying. get rid of them all together. companies dot pay taxes, customers do. people, that's you. the government doesn't need your money. >> amen. john what you got? >> while you wait to see who emerges as the tallest midget invest in safe stocks like rmuda does. >> wayne? >> i like the biotech stor. look at a etf called fbt. >> johnathan? >> i know i sound like a casandra when it comes to higher interest rates.

they said the same about gold in 2002dsvs goes up with interesting rates. inflation is coming manipulation ointerest rates. this is one to own and i own it in my fund. >> before we say good-bye catch neil cavuto live at the final presidential debate. he breaks down your monday. don't want to miss the last money. bet top dollar we'll continue to be. the national security buzz is all about what really happened at benghazi, but what about the eye eye iranians. if the intelligence was so bad inibya do we know if and when iran has the bomb? we're talking about how accurate is our intelligence inside iran right here right now. >> from the box fox business network headquarters in new york city, it's the tom sullivan show. here's your host, tom sullivan. >> tom: and thanks for joining us here. the vice-president is the latest to claim we