>> dave: dave briggs, 000. >> and clayton morris, the most important one. >> dave:ee ya. >> 17 days out from the big election and big news from 7 swing states, the unemployment rate, faing, and the guys pounding the campaign trail and those swing states, take a page out of the play book, these guys, find out how t get jobs swinging back in the right direction, hi, i'm brenda buner and this is bulls and bears. here they are, the bulls and bears, we have got tobin smith, jonas ma ferris, and, gary kontbalm, gary, what are those guys doing right. >> helping and letting

businesses flourish. i'm in florida, a billion dollar tax cut to business over three years, great economic development agen that helps business like otr states than california, which raises taxes and takes money out of the economy and puts it into the government's hands, which is huge for a state like that and florida is getting its act in gear. >> what do the candidates have to learn from these governors? neither one of them has exactl the same policies. >> the first thing we can learn is five out of the 7 governors in the swing states are republics. so, a lot of the macro republican policies seem to be working at the state level, an rick talked about florida but look at wisconsin, scott had to go up against theecall to get collective bargaining with the unions, and, john kasich,he same in ohio and, he has gone out and had about 18 tax cut plans, he's straightened out the tax coden ohio and these are the types of things either

presidential candidate needs to implement, ing forward. to startreating jobs again. >> susan, john makes a good point, fighting unions and collective bargaining, going up against regulations. those arell things that seem to be working on the state level. should the candidates be looking at this? >> you know, on the regulatory ont i do agree with john bu the notion that tax rates are the panacea and the policy magic nd is completely false. if you look at iowa, for instance they had a 1% - highest corporate tax rate of any state in the country and the lowest unemployment rates, 5. % and nevada almost the lowest tax burden on a personal and corporate level, almost the highestnemployment rate. tax rates are not the panacea, the governoromney and a lot of republicans pretend they are, but i think the business climate is anmportant issue and takes into account things like investment, in infrastructure, skilled labor force, as well as regularly burdens. >> toby? >> well, susan, iowa has a lot of farmland and they are doing

okay. you can be geographically correct but let's talk about regulatory. because both in iowa, colorado, for instance, i know many companies that have left california for colorado, specifically because their cost of doing business was more than 20% lower and they voted with their feet. i think the regulatory one is the sleeper one. we have added something like 32,000, pages of additional regulations at the federal level, at thetate level, colorado got rid of a thousand, i thinthat is the right directn. >> gentlemen, should the governors get the credit for wh is going right in some o these states? a lot of this is coming from th federal government. handouts. >> they shouldn't get the credit, good or bad. look at the margins, a lot of the things the panels are talking about are true, nice to have an owr-friendly business environment, and lower taxes but there is something much bigger going on and you can tell, nevada and florida have no knack ta a are the worst states in

the country for labor markets at this point. and if you go to zillow and start home prices in every state against the unemployment rate you'll see why some states are in the crapper and some aren't. cae they never h a housing bubble in texas or wisconsin. they had one in nevada and florid and it destroyed the economy. don't let bubbles build like that in the economy, at the least buil up resources, so when it pops you aren't broke like a lot of the states. but that is the driver in the economy... you just made a point i wanted to make, in florida, and nevada they had another issu the housing bubble, that is -- and, it is these picies that governorsre coming out wi, wer taxes, less regulations, and let businesses ourish and guess what? it is businesses who do the hiring, and, the permanent hiring. not the tax burden gornment, governments, are hiring, from taxpayer dollars, right now,

things are gettinguch much better and ifousi gets better you will see florida flourish like you afternoon in ars, the expectationhere >> susan, john made another good point about the fact that the majority in these swing states are republan governors, what does it tell you? >> you know what? 41 states had lower rates of unemplment this month. it is not jus about the swing states and i would contest jonas's point, look at m beloved home state of new jersey, governor christie saw unemployment rising der his tenure, 9.8%, now, 2%, over the national average, that was not because of the housing bubble, because of bad policies, he's not trying to help the middle class and shut down infrastructure investment and is going after teachers and education and you see the results. >> you can make the argument -- to counter the point, new jersey and new york have almost identical unemployment rates because it is the same labor market and region and, you have totally diametrically opposed

governors and, you have new york, and, the new jsey governor and they can't get the unemployment rate to stop moving, because ultimately they work in financial services which... >> the president can't do anything about micro segments of the economy. he needs to do stuff about the big stuff and at the big level we know marginal rates of the corporations make a difference and states where they've gone after theseassive union systems, and ope labor, we can do that at the federal level, it doesn't matter whether you work in finance or not. jonas, madison, wisconsin versus michigan. >>he difference is, states balance their budgets d the federal government doesn't a the presidential candidates don't... >> and to susan'sarlier point, lest we not forget governor christie inherited tremendous budget deficits. >> he has been in for three years, come on, so has obama. >> and cut jobs, even in the public sector which many of the

other state governors haven't had the nerve to do. >>f president obama owns the economy, governor christie does, too. come on. >> okay. looking at national level, taking these policies, wha could the presidential candidates learn from? from these states that have lowered their unemployment rates? >> well, first off, there are two things, the word "certaty." there is so much uncertainty in the system, i speak to so many small businesses, as well as big businesses, they don't know where e heck they' be next year. put serpent back into the system as far as tax polici, regulatory policy and just letting busess know they are behind them, the thought process, that business owners have, that we're okay ain and not have all the roadblocks, let employment floish and you see unemployment come down and the big tng nationally that kept employment up for the last three years and not where it should be like five or s percent is that

one word, no one knows where we'll be next year on tax policy and regulatory policy and if there certainty in the system i promise unemployment will come down. >> we haven'talked ohio and the policies on their energy dripping and opening up both public and private lands, again, macro level, biglevel, 4 million jobs, romney i -- probly 10 million jobs from energy policy done right. >> our own neil cavuto heading to one of those swing states on monday for the final presidential debate in bida, be there, at 4:00 p.m. eastern here on fox news, neil will be joined by senator johmccain, florida governor rick scott, former clintopress secretary me mccurry and many,any others. then on fox business, full debate coverage from 8:00 p.m. to midnight. your election, your country, your money. your future. all on the line and no one covers it like neil. before that, neil is going to

tell you what this guy is saying, just proved our national debt is now officially a national secity risk. at the bottom of the hour. up next here, who says you can't go home? one in three homeowners expecting not just their adult kids but their parents to move back in with them. sounds like a bad sign for the economy. why is someone he saying it is good for the economy? with the spark cash card from capital one, sven's home security gets the most rewards of any small business credit card! how does this thinwork? oh, i like it! [ gart] sven's small business earns 2% casback

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log onto foxnews.com. >> from an ety nest back to a full one. a new survey of homeowners revealing one in three are planning for their adult kidsr parents to move in with them in the near future. you might think it is a terrible indicator for the economy. but, john, you actually say it is good news? >> i think it is. you have to stop somewhere, much to the dismay of my fend, tobin, a lot of people moving in with their parentsre doing it for onmajor reason, to save money which is now a lost art in america, thanks to some of the federal policies we have. there is no incentive to save money and secondarily, when those people are moving back in, they are fixing up the basements and painting the ros and buying wallpaperer and rugs and we have to start somewhere, buying durable goods, hiring a handy man and paint company and

these are the building blocks to getting a new president and back on track. >> what kids are you talking about? i've never seen a kid buy a new rug. >> for their 27-year-old kids. they are not -- they are coming home to save up. >> and that is what it is. mom andad again. jonas, go ahead. >> these kids... >> they aren't doing a lot of home renovations in the basement. i'll say tre's a big issue and that is that, i don't think either candidate or president is addressing it, these ks are coming out with $100,000 degrees, that are in history and in things that are -- filmnd will not match with today's workforce. and they are not a good fit to where th jobs are today, plus construction workers out of business and, they will be burdened by debt and, it is sad. right now it is the easiest time -- i wish when i wasut of college, you could get a fha

loan, and, you have a house and don't have your parents breathing down their neck and they are going home, over that and it must be a bad labor market and that is what we have to address, not the patch wk things. >> susan, this is a sign people don't have jobs, they are fighting, you know, debt. debt is now a trillion dollars. for student debt at this point. >> that is a huge issue. i wouldn't say it is necessarily only because people don't have jobs but i think a lot of people, to john's point, which i agree with are trying to be more economical about their living situation and is a great trend to see they are trying to save and help pay down the debt earlier, rather than just spend a lifetime in debt. never getting into the right kinds of jobs and never becoming more producte members of the labor force because they are saddled with t debt. >> gary k., a couple of boys, expect them to come home? will they be boomerang kids? is that good for the economy. >> i love my sons and one came home this weekend, from college, brght home dog a the dog, you know what on the rug.

and i have to buy a new rug... there is nothing good about 20 somethings living with the parents. for the most part these are people who don't have a job and if they don't have a job, they are spending and not spending and the economy is worsening and the economy worsens and you get a vicious cycle. i don't see anythi good about that. i love my sons to live with me the rest of the lives, that is how much i love them but for a sign the economy is getting better you'll see the opposite and jonas, you are right. this is the best time for -- to have a job, because interest rates are so low, the ability to be able touy a small condo or something with 3%, it is fe money at this point in time. >> tell me, this is kind of the way it used to be when generations all lived together and saved money... >> and they didn't like it. where are is the stanley b. smiths, i love youbut, get the hell out! from an economic standpoint.

>> there might be a personal issue there! >> the economic thing is, we're not getting household formation, which represes 1/2 of 1% of the entire gdp of the country, so on and so forth, by breaking the cycle, and, these kids aren'tuying cars, they don't buy cars anymore, no cars, i don't know. >> what do they buy. >> video games. >> all right, the last word, guys. you can always lock the doors. all right, welfare spending now topping $1 trillion a year. topping $1 trillion a year. why isn't poverty being jack, you're a little boring. boring. boring. [ jack ] after lauren broke up with me, i went to the citi private pass page and decided to be...not boring. that's how i met marilyn... giada. really good. yes! [ jack ] ...and alicia. ♪ this girl is on fire

[ male announcer ] use any citi® card to get the benefits of prite pass. more concerts. more events. more experiences. [ jack ] hey, who's boring now? [ male announcer ] get more access with a citi card. [ crowd cheering, mouse clicks ] so, which supeast 4g lte service would yochoose, based on this chart ? don't rush into it, i'm not looking for the fastest answer. obviously verizon. okay, i have a different chart. going that way, does that make a difference ? look at verizon. it's so much more than the othernes. so what if we just changed the format altogether ? ist that the exact same thing ? it's pretty clear. still sticking with verizon. verizon. more 4g lte coverage than all other networks combined.

>> thiis and eye opener, all of our spending on welfare programs, now topping a trillion bucks a year, which excee the budgets of social securi, medicare, and defee. since lbj declared war o povertrty in the '60s, one stud shows we've handed out mor than 15 -- get this -- trillion dollars with a "t"et the poverty rate is still at 15%, and is throwing more money at the problem making itworse. >> it is, and unfortunately it is not a financial issue, it is a cultural issue. look at also the changes in children born out o wedck an divorces, and, single parent households, usually a female and, no a high schoodegree, that is where poverty comes from and the idea of paying ipend, will cnge thessue is naive anwe are not dfining the

problem and, we try to solve it withhe wrong medicine. that what is we do here. >> what is the real problem. >> some of the welfare spending is the college grants in school and fwigs -- they are trying to help, and itooks like wasted money on the surface. but when the war on poverty started and lbj kent around the country, people were poor and the poverty level was mal nourish. and no health care and today, i don't wanto say you are okay. when you are poor but at the poverty level, there is a lot of heavy people on food stamps and you have a certain level of dicaid and you are better off because of the programs, it doesn't mean they don't need to be cut or tweaked and it's not justhis part of the budget i argue everything but defense is welfare spending when it boils down to it. social security is welfare spending, ifou don't put inasmuch as you are getting and medicare, too, if you tookt away, most 8-year-olds could not afford health careand don't want to target the poor, but across the board the government nes to cut spending down and also, half the country is slipping through, at is the problem, the admistration

hasn't addressed and the programs will grow proportionately and most growth happened between '08 and '09 because of the economy, not because of major changes, because people are getting poorer and that has to be addressed. >>ary k., there is some level here, that if you keep giving people money and handouts, it creates a certain culture. >> it disinceivizes people and all the money has not lowered poverty or welfare, the war on poverty s absolutely failed when you take a trillion dollars a year from producers, and hand it to nonproducers, you cannot pect good thing to happen. you've got to turn nonproducers into producers. and you are not giving them any incentives by hanng them over a check. we had welfare reform in the '90s and we are turning it on its ear at this point in time and we are advertising for people to go on food stamps, and lowered the restrictions to get them. this is crazy. i want to hear the advertising

and programs to get these people off of welfare, not onto it. >> pel grant, and, these are not -- if you look at the numbers, direct cash aid has gone down from the bush administration. so, obama has actually reduced the levels. and the main spending here is health care and the reason it is increasing is because health care costs are increasing, which we see across the economy and across the board in government, the percentage of health care spending is the same as it was in the bush administrati. >> i guess you haven't read the food stamps numbers. have you read the food stamp numbers. >> i have b other social services are going down and cash aid numbers are going down, health care is 45% of the spending, not food stamps. >> john? >> if you want your kids to grow up and become productive, you don't hand them an allowance every week, you hand it every week when they put the garbage out. you have to incentivize workers to want to lift themselves up, and by increasin the handouts to them, is not giving them any

incentive at all, except to sit there and take in the obama administration's new policies, of expanding the new types of things that are considered work, under welfare. >> okay, that has to be the last rd. thanks, guys and thanks to susan for joining . we always apprecie having y here. >> great to be here. >> the big great over big bird, driving up one name and how it could lay you a golden egg. bob... oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech.

great! it's always good to have a backup plan, in case i get hit by a meteor. wow, your hair looks great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey, good call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty. here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners. [ male announcer ] fedex office. when we got married. i had three kids. and she became the full time mother of three. it was soccer, and ballet, and cheerleading, and baseball. those years were crazy. so, as we go into this next phase, you know, a big part of it for us is that there isn't anything on the schedule.

>> predictions,toby.

>> aol for e-mail, they were old but a new system is coming out, and, i think it will help the stock up, 40%. >> john, bull or bear. >> bear. sorry. toby. >> no worries. >> what do you like. >> about to blow up no microsoft takes a bite out of apple, 20%, by year end. >> gary k.? you like that. >>o. earnings down, revenue down, going place fast. >> what do you like, then? >> i'm worried about a risky market, i'm going low beta value stocks and the pharmaceuticals are acting well, pfizer, 20% in 6 months, and trading ten times earnings and acting -- >> bull or bear. >> peline for 20%. >> prediction, jonas. >> okay, you cannot get a costume for halloween, big bird, because of the hyeria, hasbro, because of their... they can be sellinthese all day long,p 20% year, definitely. >> you a so cute. tobin, a bull or bear. >> you talked ou