for being fair and balanced. thank you for all of your comments, keep them coming. lou@loudobbs.com. send us an e-mail or findhe links nd twitter are in we love hearing what everyone everyone has to say. that is it for us. goodnightfrom new york. il: portuguese history, two weeks until mitt romney hopes to make history. if he does, it won't be his if the governor goes on to win, he could go back to the very city that coordinated barack bama in 2008. a city never get a second chance to make a first impression.

when everything is said and done about these debates, such will be sent to the first debate, the debate in denver that created a stir. and for mitt romney, momentum. the debate to pre that he is to be seen as presidential. that moment to make a good first impression because life really affords you a second opportunity. that was the chance thatromney needed. despite less than convincing follow-up performances, maybe the rest does not matter. that was the debate about voters thinking that mitt romney was just as likable d capable and may be just as ready. maybe, just maybe, that was the deba that made mitt romney the possible president. we will know in two weeks. here is what we know now. romneys as competitive as he is, because what he did in denver. that may very well have been the debate but did matter. two weeks out, until these very close elecons. showing w all this is shaping up. we have sabrina schaeffer and our own sandra smith.

that was the debate moved the needle. the first one. try as the president had followed debates, neither have managed to move the needle back to the democrats. what about the importance of that and how it is set in hell continues to set the tone these elections two weeks out. >> well, for a lot of undecided voters, when we went into the presidential debate, there was that all factor that mitt romney seemed to be lackng. en he came out wiout first presidential debate, he had it, he controlled the environment, he controlled the format of the debate. and he had obama frazzled. he showed the american people how obama's policies over the past fr years have failed. he was extremel effective in fit impressions. that is going to stick with the american voters. neil: bob, i follow tse future

markets. while it still favors the president, tho putting money on the line and the president will win. but never has been this narrow. i can only trace the fact back to the first debate, which seems to show tht barack obama was on an equal footing with mitt romney. mitt romney on an equal footing with barack obama. it sort of changed the landscape for debates and. >> i agree, neil. that debate was such a somber, you could argue who won the second and third, but the first one changed the whole ace. it wasn't as bad as president obama's first debate. i agree that history will show that mitt romney wins this, and he has the momentum, still a little bit down in ohio, if mitt

romney wins, it's because of that first debate. neil: you know, sabrina, i never like to put stock in one ove the other. so i just look at the trends and thmoving averages. they do not seem to show much bang for the poll. after arguably getting the better debate points come it doesn't seem to go for the president. will materialize, is the first one the one that counts and the impression that sticks? peop forget john kennedy and richard nixon and their debate, but everyone seems to remember the first one. >> i think that the first debate is the first time that so many americans were actually tuning in this election. for so many americans, they have busy lives, taking to school, going to work. this might've been the first time they sat down and paid attentn to what was going on. what they saw was a president who is not to the ability to defend his record for the past four years, nor did he seem to have a clear path moving forward for the next four years.

the thing that i took away from all of this is that romney didn't walk away from this debate and go about his business. he really managed that momentum and now he is reaping the benefits of this enthusiasm factor, looking at the polls, that is where mitt romney is really chomping president obama. neil: in two weeks, world could change, sara, but i'm always reminded of the advice given to ronald reagan. don't come off as a nut. look presidential and calm. you can do that humor thing and i'm dding thing, bbt don't go too far. i'm wondering -- that is honestly what mitt romney was trying tdo. he didn't want to get in a drawn out debate on benghazi and my critique was you miss a lot of opportunities being so reticent. being that as it may, if he presidential in the eyes people that might've been leaning one way or the other? or is ultimately gng to be decided on do you like the

presidents policies? no matter how good or bad the other guguy looks like i think n the first debate, that is the first time that they really thought governor romney is it possible president. i do believe that he carried that throughout the ppesidential debates and last night, as he said. he kept his cool and calm. he had criticism of president obama, butt was mitigated to a point. as long as he continues, people are in favor of the fact that he is the guy who has come out. he said i am going to fight for you. he came out passionate in that fit debate. i'm going to put you back to work, and he stuck to that message, and i think that is what is working for voters right now. neil: bob, ultimately we look back at the romney victory if there is one inwo weeks, will we trace it back to that first debate when he appearedo be on

equal footing with the president? he scores scores well on the same likability and a provability, for lack of a better word. that he is even keel going out as far as comparisons are concerned. >> that is right. i think so. the president's campaign had done a very good job in trying to define mitt romney. but that first debate, i think a lot of you that were leaning, they said okay, he's not a vampire or unlikable as i thought he was. on equal footing early helped mitt romney, because he had so many people. they are not paying attention,3 and they have to pay attention, and now they are, and that is wh mitt romney has picked up these crucial viewpoints in the polls, and he is leaning down in ohio. >> sabrina, you could argue about the undecided voters. the 82 pople that gathered, by

the way, i did not like that for a new york minute. i can only be led to believe no thatthe support the romney has gotten since and throughout has been coming from either lukewarm or soft obama supporters were new people coming out of the woodwork. what do you think? >> i think you hit on such an important point. there are twways of the candidates to get more support. either by a vote share, those up enthusiasm. looking at the registered voters, romney hasn't infused his share of registered voters in a while. >> which is more reliable? >> now it is likel voters. >> they are the motivated voters and that is really what we are talking about now, and it is interesting to see how he is surging ahead. i think you're absolutely right.

neil: one quick market read. maybe you can weigh in on this. he is going to go after the fed, going after what he has called over accommodating and overaggressive -- that ben bernanke's days are numbered. he won't be reappointed, but he will be facing a president who doesn't know what it's doing. and the markets don't like that. >> let's not forgt that one of the best quote was actually about the market. and he said that dodd-frank, when he was talking about how dodd-frank was the biggest kis from the president to them ever, he says that he has squashed the

small banks in the country and they are certainly going to have some optimism about that. there will be an unbalanced response in the market. it will take some time to get a true read on how the markets will respond. look at what has happened with oil prices since mitt romney has been gaining steam in the polls? oil prices have been coming down. more drillinis what he is saying he wants a correlation that he has come down because it looks like his prospects are going up? >> i think that it's not unreasonable to make that type. that would be very bearish for the oil and gasoline maet if we were to see mitt romney put in office and approval of the keystone pipeline and more drilling open on american soil. neil: very nice.

remember, if we are wrong about fine-tuning and tracing ll this to the denver debate, we will just destroy this digital tape. is it digital? video? it is something. we will have it removed. we'll hear is something that is tough to take. is our debts going so fast, we can't stop talking about it nonstop. and everyone was talking about a certain individual and now he is certain individual and now he is here with these fellas used capital one venture miles for a golf getaway. double miles you can actually use...

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>> when members of the republican congress say that we are going to sign a no tax pledge to the we don't have the time from millionres and billionaires reduce defici we can invest in education and health kids go to college, he

said, me too. >> not to ak the wealthiest among us to contrite and bring back the middle-class, they should be signing the pledge thing to the middle-class, we are going to level the playing field. neil: they keep mentioning your name. >> well, you don't have to use the word the kids grover norquist to use his marbles. you don't do it a tax increase like that. >> you are not a norquist fan? >> no, i not. anyone who would sign something 10 or 15 years before the dal or the issue, shouldn't even be in congress. neil: ahead of americans for ta reform, grover norquist with me to respond now. well, you do see to draw a lot of attention. when you think about that?

>> he puts a stop on the plan that the democrats have had for a long time. what democrats do is spend a lot of money, run up debt, then they turn to republicans and say that why don't we solve our problem by raising taxes? the republicans are stupid enough to put theiringerprints on a tax incase, they could lose the next election and play again. the democrats did this in 1982 when they fooled reagan and in 1990 as well. theyried to do it during the obama administration, and the problem was they said that we are not raising taxes. they said no, we want to do divine plan or smething like

the ryan plan, performing government spending down. we are not going to raise taxes to pay for obama-biden government. they get even more frustrated because they know that they're supposed to know better neil: okay, so let's say that we are facing a situation at the end of this year where they are just about ready to score a deal and the only thing blocking it is republicans insist and taxes not be raised. they will blame you for government shutdown, and they will blame you for the financial armageddon the we are told that the ratings agency will unveil. when you say? >> wl, i wish we had been strong enoogh in 1982 to stop

the deal. >> n 1982. in 1990 when they cheated bush and got him to break his commitment. we were not strong enough. now, the modern republican party, not people have taken the pledge to raise taxes, that in 2011, you're we just passed, obama said he was going to shut the government down and not pay our debts. neil: let's say he is reelected. does he have a stronger rock to stand on? you know some republicans have said that that might be a mandate for the elections of consequences. and we haven't raised taxes on e wealthy. that republicans would be, in your view, willing to fold on that subject what do you think? >> well, we don't have to ask what yet. we know that two years ago, 2010, we were exactly in that

situation. obama was the president, democrats have the sate and republicans run the house. what was the agreement? continue the bush tax cuts unchanged. obama got himself reelected despite his bad track record, in this and this fall, early next year, we would be in exactly the same place that we were two years ago. the republican house, in the senate, maybe not a majority, but stronger republican numbers, what will they do? exactly what they did two years ago, they will continue the bush tax cuts two years. y? because the democrats in the senate are terrified that in 2014, the next election, 20 democrats are up for electton. ten are who in those states are very insistent about the tax increase. and th would rather shut the

government down to not and not get their tax increase. the democrats will get wiped out of the senate in 2014. thedeocrat senators that will go to obama and say, you sign the exension, he did it for you two years ago, you do it for us now. neil: when we were in washington this weekend before this past weekend, the argument was the economy was weak and this was not the time to be raising taxes on anyone. keep in mind, we are weaker now than we were then. the gdp growth is lower than it was before. something to think about. we are starting to lookas bad as these guys are. i want you to meet the ceo. ely. but because of business people like you, things are beginning to get rolling. and regions is here to help.

making it easier with the expertise and service to keep those wheels turng. from business loans to cash management, we want to be your partner moving forward. so switch to regions. and let's get going. together. so, which supeast 4g lte seice would yochse, based on this chart ? don't rush into it, i'm not looking for e fastest answer. obviously verizon.

ok, i have a different chart. going that way, does thamake a difference ? look at verizon. it's so much more than the other ones. so what if we just changed the format altogether ? isn't that the exact same thing ? it's pretty clear. still sticking with verizon. verizon. more 4g lte coverage than all other networks combined.

neil: well, this is not news, but if the debt keeps going on, we are bei laughed at all around the world. so we can talk bout a brand, but they can comback and laugh at us. it is hard to be top when you are $16 trillion in debt. what do can we do to address that, robert? yoyou think that globally, and u travel -- we are not held in high regard anymore. >> no, we are not. have very high cost energy, and it is going to increase. it will increase at a much greater rate. the ranking member of the senate

environment and public works committee came out wh an extensive report that mr. obama leaned back $600 billion worth of regulations that they don't want to come out before the election in case he gets reelected a second term. these all involve ozone and greenhouse gas and fly ash regulations. 600 billion in additional costs to energy. this man is destroying low cost energy in america. without low cost energy in america, our count will not have a good foreign policy. we will be a second rate nation. this man is destroying it. il: i did see out of mitt romney last night, and maybe there is a strategy to this, if your strategy is to lose a debate, i know we succeeded at that. but he did not tackle the president on how important energy was too old our global

competitiveness. touched on it, but i am not besmirching him. he did not drive the point home where that are debt -- it threatens our national security. he touched on it, but not aggressivelynough. i'm wondering if that is why folks like him and others say america cannot get the fiscal house in order because they cannot agree what is important. >> i think you are rig. i do agree with governor romney's proponents in the debate, as to howou described it, i don't know why you let mr. obama, who is the one wrong here, but he did. >> i think the strategy was to look presidential, not to give in the weeds, start looking like he's confident. part of being presidential is to also be in your face now and then, and i didn't see him follow. >> yes, i do agree.

i am very worried. when you elimina e coal industry wind andsolar, that it's $24 from the taxpayer. neil, we are in for a very high cost energy scenario in america, and low cost electricity, sir, is a staple of life. we mustave it. we are going to be exporting jobs to china, which is building a new 500-megawatt, or send kilowatt power pnt every week. neil: so why is this not more f an issue in states like ohio and pennsylvania, where i would imagine this is right upthere with the economy. >> yes, it's right up in ohio and at the top of the list in debates. these 500 of my coal miners wrote a letter to president obama saying mr. obama, why are you lying about 500 homeowners?

they are incensed in ohio. it is not coming out in the debate. what but it is clearly being debated in the state of ohio, sir. neil: well, uncannily, you are right about a lot of this stuff. well, dies and gentlemen, you are seeing stocks taking flight and what that means coming up next before copd...

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neil: i want you all to forget the onomy contracting. halftime. may i hrottle this point home. right now, your ceos and bosses are at a loss. dupont, xerox, ups, intel, mcdonald's, united technologies. ibm, fedex. caterpillar. i could go on and on. they are all disappointi and all worrying. well, today, got a lot of their stocks nosediving. here is the word. they ae worried. they are very worried. that should have you very worried. because when bosses are worried and revising their forecasts, they are looking at cutting costs. guess who is on the chopping block? if you are dupont, about 1500 workers. those workers are just the latest casualties. i suspect that they will not even months. earnings are conracting, and without getting hoity-toity

about, it, that isot good news for the economy. no matter what we see in the debates, there was nothing like what is going on in corporate america. they are hrinking. bonita mcdold says he can't find a recovery here or abroad and it's going to keep you very worried about a recovery that is not her. or abroad. so that is what we are saying. more and more bosses can't stand it anymore. i don't know about you, but right now, that makes me feel like a lot of ndians, right3 now, not a lot of hope. david asman now on earnings in a matter of time for the economy follows. >> is a question of which is following which. welcome to the fact is that a company has been relying on a lot of things other tha customers, which is where they should be.

it helps them in their borrowing costs. they have been relying on government cotracts. of all these things other than customer money, which should be their basic tour. mainly that they make money. eventually, it has caught up with them. what has happened is that customers don't have as much money and customers are very worried about the future and unlike governments, customers are playg it safe. they are not spending more moey than they have, which means that corporations are getting less money. what is happening now is that big companies like dupont laying off 1500 workers, the ceo of dupont, what is the reason for this? weaker tha expected demand in titanium dioxide and markets. neil: when translated to english. it means that the solar buness went bust. it wasn't just your her taxpayer

dollars that were wasted in these billn dollar winter project. a lot of companies follow the government because it will help us all. it didn't. a lot of the ivestments that dupont made went bust then you have xerox. they say that they were hurt by a strong dollar and also tight government budgets. that means that the governme has been spending money in xerox the way they used toto, which means a lot of governments are using these different rules and regulations. the bottom line is that it hurts the bottom line of xox. then 3-m. trying to make money andall of these currencies. the euro is worth little more. when the euro is worth a little less, they dothis or that. instead of focusing on what the customerants and the customer needs, they are focusing on all these other things, and that is what is hurting the bottom line. not all them, mcdonald's

still sells hamburgers, and they do a pretty good job of that. they are still hurting asa as much. these companies that have been relying on things other than t customer have been hurting and they could be leading us into a recession. neil: you can only go so far in cutting your costs. thank you, david. in 2012, moving steadily forward. but critics say the new agenda is backwards. i'm going to break our economic backs. or will this break our economic backs? [ female announcer ] the next generation of investing technology

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home. repairing roads, fixing bridges and schools all across america. neil: the president unveiling his blueprint for america today instead of savings, he is looking to spend more green. spend away on infrastructure, mr. president, but in the end, with what we g for that? >> i think that we get infrastructure. and i have to tell you, it's not that i'm a spend of great deals of money type of person. if a structure, to me, is very comparable. if we do not continue to build or start building a modern infrastrture, the impact this will havon buiness and life in america will be devastating. it is painful to have to do it, but we have to do it. >> would have been been doing all of these -- concert federal

surcharges that would address these things. >> our modern infrastructure took hold with the eisenhower years and build on from there. in the past, we hit on somewhere near 20 years from that moment in time, where the infrastructure started to run down. ne: we were still piling a lot of money into to i hear you. neil: i don't think you do, buddy. there a crew outside in new jersey, the grandchildren the construction workers are continuing the same extension that they were working on decades ago. that is weird. it is consistent. i know is a true businessmancome you don't like to throw good

money after bad things. we should do the al gore thing and get highway fnding, whatever we want to call it, because it's not working where we areoing now. let's be clear come you have two different things going on. you have the importance of building the infrastructure and the point you are making, which we have seen a lot of wasted money. [talking over each other] neil: i think that is a microcosm what is going on in the country. if we get one out of 10 of these dollars going to the desired bridge or tunnel, i wod be shocked. everyone in every president in every debate, they are miraculously talking about this being gobbled up somewhere else. >> i can totally sign on to the idea you just suggested. i'm with you all the way on that. neil: no, you're not. >> yes, i am.

neil: i said, would you watch wh you are doing, and he said oh, that's a good idea. [laughter] >> i did not say that. neil: okay, you did not say that. but i think you mentioned it. [laughter] neil: rick, it's always a pleasure. thank you very much. three debates down to these two guys, almost done for this one.. small-business guys next on why it they see this time and the it they see this time and the white house a the capital one cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus. and eveone, but her... likes 50% more cash. but, i have an idea. do you want a princess dress? yes how about some cupcakes? yes lollipop? yes! do you want an etch a sketch? yes! do you want 50% more cash? no you got talent. [ male announcer ] the capital one cash rewards card. with a 50% annual cash bonus it's the card for people who like more cash. what's in your wallet? i usually say that

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>> we have to champion small business. where jobs come from. two thirds of our jobs come from small businesses. new business formation is do athe lowest level in 30 years. undethis administration. i want to bring it back and get

that good jobs feeling back. >> governoromney talks about small business, but when you were in massachusetts, small businesses and development aved about 48 out of 50 states in massachusetts. the policy that you're promoting don't help small businesses. the way they either find them include folks at the very top. they include you and me. that is not the kind of promotion of any. neil:ack and forth and back and forth. talking directly to my next guest. we have been checking back and forth with these guys throughout this whole recovery. and we think it is very handy every time there is a development. let's see what they are thinking and whether they like what they are hearing or not. now, i know what you are

thinking. >> okay. neil: david, you fst. did eitherandite can tell you to say that this candidate gets yor vote? >> you know, what i got out of the debates when you combi them is this. i know what has gone on the last four yers and it has just about put us in the poor house. we are very close to ending it all. so i knowhat doesn't work. whatever the president wants to say about the romney, small businesses at an all-time low. they just don't exist right now. i will just repeat myself and say we cannot survive our company. we can't survive another four years. i can't survive another eight months of what is currently

going on in this economy doesn't take a swing to theupside. neil: i'm sorry, last night, one of the things i heard was a lot of these business guys remember, these were tougher before barack obama came in. well, how is that period for you? >> it was tough, everything you have to watch m every penny into your business. >> have you always had to do that? >> you do, but you have had more efficient and more chance to recover from something. if you me a mistake, it could be fatal. if you go down the wrong road, it could be fatal. if you want to expand you business and it doesn't work out, there's no more room for anyone. >> be added wrinkles here over the past few years, the regulations have always been

hassle. but it was accelerated, if i understand, how much they increase the taxes and fees and burdens. that has been a real pain in the butt. is that right? >> what happens is that your regulations, fuel costshave carried that all along. bush ishe same ay. everything we buy is pasteurized, homogenized, sanitized from it all requires food costs. 38% -- 38% in last three the last three years, my food costs are up >> it is not sustainable anymore. it is out of contr. >> never befre it did you ever see everything up. we have seen drops were cornet will win a. but when one goes up, one would start to go down. not in this orld. everything is out. packaging costs. i packaging costs used tobe three to 4%. today they are 13%.

[talking over eachother] >> these surcharges and taxes are passed on everything. there is a tax on everything. neil: is tt barack obama saw? he will argue no. >> we had good foreignpolicy. we dn't hear anything about the commodities. i didn't hear anying like that. >> when we talk about taes and honely the president when after mitt romney again, he we on to say that mitt romney talks a good game about taxes going up on small business and all of that. but the fact of the matter is that very few, very few are taxed at the top individl rate. itepresents a fraction, two or 3% of all the small businesse out there. you guys always reminding you account for, depending on the statistics,, half of all the hiring. in your case david, it has a measurable effect. please explain.

>> , well, where it affects me is i wish i could into that category. but i do not. i am far from it. we do a tmendous amount of business from law firms. [talking over each other] neil: let me ask you this. did you hear anything out of mittromney that would show you that he uld reverse that. or is he just promising nebulous general high in the sky that leaves you wondering about the

specifics? >> he was very nonspecific on anything as far as forei %-i would like to see something specific something that we could put our teeth into. it is very hard to do that. we went to the debate yesterday. neil: mike, what about you? >> same thing. i would like to hear some specifics. i'm at the desperate stage. because of the rules and regulations, cutting back on the size of government, getting

these guys out of our pockets, doing somthing to bring some sanity just to fuel costs -- all of those things. you can take the rest of the unknowns out and just what i share with the known factors is that i can see light at the end of the tunnel. >> he seems to give them an portunity to breathe. neil: this is a greatusiness and punditry for you. you could be great business pundits. great to have you here. way beyond the election. guys that are out there on the front line trying to make a living. right now, it's starting to be a pain in the butt. the president is looking nd has discovered it is his voters that follow the wings.

seems they haven't been moving much lately. but things are starting to turn around because of business ople like you. and regions is here to help. with the experience and service to keep things rolling. from business loans to cash management, we want to be your partner moving forward. so switch to regions. and let's get going. together. so, which supeast 4g lte rvice would yochoose,

based on this chart ? don't rush into it, i'm not lookinfor the fastest answer. obviously verizon. okay, i have a different chart. going that way, does that make a difference ? look at verizon. it's so much more than the other ones. so what if we just changed the format altogether ? isn't that the exact same thing ? it's pretty clear. still sticking with verizon. verizon. more 4g lte coverage than all other networks combined. neil: finally i have bee thinking. if the president wins re-election he better firm up his past. ic undecided voters will not define the race. there are too few to mater. the undecided obama voters.

just looking at the numbers. to many are not decided. what could explain the sudden shift after the first debate? there were not enough undecideds. of the peeling off the obama decided voters. one that has remained even though supsedly the president one. the matter what barack obama or joe biden has gained in points with the debate it is not with the polls. w the president is pulling worse which leads me to believeit is not the mitt romney support but the president's. his was built on a hill of santa. i am not saying the president cannot