♪ imus in the morning ♪ ♪ >> you know, you could call it a shift. you could call it a cave, but other way, the republicans are in motion over the fiscal cliff. the democrats are not moving. good morning, everyone, several leading republicans say they will put more tax revenue on the table. that's a shift. warren buffett says raise tax rates on incomes over a half million dollars, that's a shift. but the president and democrats are not moving and they still say raise tax rates on the rich. on-line shopping, a very big winner and very big for retailers. 13% better than last year overall.

today, on-line sales may run close to 2 billion dollars. will it last through the holidays? we've got another north african economy in absolute chaos. egypt torn by rioting after morsi takes dictatorial powers. they really need our money now. watch out, everybody, "varney & company" is about to begin. get married, have a couple of kids, [ children laughing ] move to the country, and live a long, happy life together where they almost never fight about money. [ dog barks ] because right after they get married, they'll find some retirement peopl who are paid on sary, not commission. they'll get straightforward guidance and be able to focus on other things, like each other, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.

>> as we said, call it a cave. call it a shift. call it negotiating, no matter how you slice it, the republican position on taxes has changed. here is senator lindsey graham. >> when you're 16 trillion dollars in debt. the only pledge we should be be making to each other is to avoid the coming grief and republicans should put revenue on the table, we're far in debt and don't generate enough revenue, capping deductions will help revenue and raising tax rates will hurt job

creation so i agree with grover we shouldn't raise rates, but i think that grover is wrong when it comes we can't cap deductions and buy down debt. >> that's preference to grover norquist and doesn't want any taxes of any kind and republicans are very clear, they say raise tax revenue and would have to come through limits on deductions, not higher tax rates. however, on the other side of the aisle there's no movement from the democrats, carl levin says, yeah, raise tax rates on the rich. >> they have to go up either real tax rates or effective tax rates, there's ways of at that doing. secondly though we've got to close significant loopholes. >> movement on the republican side, not from the democrats. there are no meetings scheduled for talks for the congressional leaders, and they'll hit the road and sell tax on over a

quarter million dollars. maybe he should bring warren buffett along, buffett says he's in favor of raising the tax rate on people making more than $500,000 a year. congress may have less time to figure this all out than we thought. the new rules go into effect january 1st, but we believe that christmas eve may be the real deadline because of course, of the holiday. that's the deadline. very close. high unemployment, slow economic growth, still record spending over the holiday weekend. is that a sign of strength? can it continue? former reagan advisor, art laffer, we get that story and the fiscal cliff in just a couple of moments. we have the opening belfour you next. bell for you next.

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morning is about the fiscal cliff, it is getting very, very close. no meeting planned for this week between the president and congress, and that may be the negative which pushes the dow down. we're off and running. the opening trend is to the down side and just around 13,000, that's how we came out of the thanksgiving holiday and now it's at 12,990, down 20, 30, nearly 40 points in the the very early going and that's the way we expected it and as you know, it's cyber monday and on-line sales today expect today hit 1 1/2 billion dollars, maybe more. and nicole, let's look at the biggest on-line retailer of them all, amazon, where is it? >> that's right, a pure play

on-line retailer and that's amazon, that's the winner today and it has an up arrow and we obviously saw the weekend kicking off with shopping for the thanksgiving holiday sales and 59 billion, black friday, jn line sales over 1 billion and when you talk about on-line retailers and versus brick and mortar stores, on-line retailers have done so much better. up this year, more than double the 22% gain that we saw for the regular stores. >> i have to say that this holiday weekend on-line shopping, if i say it came of age, would that work? because the gamins have been astronomical. >> we've seen on-line picking up. we'll know that it's really come of age when you do your shopping jn line. stuart: i did. >> you do all of your shopping on-line. >> not all of it, but i did buy something on amazon yesterday, i did. >> there's the point. >> my wife did it for me, but i

said i'd like to buy that. thanks, nicole, we're down 74 points in the early going, and a bigger d drop than expected 12, if we learned one thing the start of the holiday sopping season, the people look like they're ready to spend and the shoppers did spend, 60 billion. and that means, about $25 per person more spent this year than last year, and joining us now, art laffer, former reagan economic advisors, couldn't this be a sign of some real economic strength where people are spending this kind of money? >> well, it could be, but it isn't in this case, i don't think, stuart. i think it's people shifting purchases out of 2013 into 2012 and you know, that shifting of impact is the very thing that i'm concerned about because it will unravel itself come 2013 and you'll see a very

significant drop in the u.s. economy. stuart: that's interesting. >> that's the way i sort of see it. stuart: that's interesting. i've not heard that before. you think it's pretty strong spending this holiday weekend because people are spending the money that they've got now because you think they'll have less of it next year, is that it? >> that's true, yes, exactly. i mean, incomes equal expense, sure, that has to happen and people are trying to shift their incomes out of 2013 into 2012 to avoid the high tax rates they're going to have to pay and that has to bring the spending with it, and that's what you're seeing with the numbers, i believe. what happened in 2010 and 2011 and also reverse what happened in 1981, 82, versus 83 and 84 when we had major changes in the tax rates in the u.s. >> all right. what do you make-- i said earlier there has been movement certainly on the republican side in the fiscal

cliff debates, republicans say we're okay, on board with getting more tax revenue, not higher tax rates, but more tax revenue, would you say i'm right and there has indeed been a shift? >> i think there's been a shift and i think that was dictated by the election results and it's dictated by the election results and the republicans can't be the people who hold back the entire movement of taxes and tax cuts extended for most people and i wish they could keep the highest tax rates slow where they are, because that's where the job creators are, and i think that the republicans will ultimately come to a deal and you know, they have to, otherwise, obama could hold it over their heads and beat them with it and claim that the republicans are the recalcitrant holdovers and i hope they don't do too much. stuart: i haven't heard anything on the other side of the fence, which is entitlement reform and

spending cuts and that's ignored on the tax side of things. >> well, it's all politics, stuart. you know, they don't have to move right now. they just want to the let the republicans sit there and stew in their own juices, which is what's going on. the faster the democrats act the less political gain from the pressure under republicans. there's no real incentive for democrats to come out and be accommodative and they won't be until the very end and let's hope something happens so it doesn't hold all the tax cuts from going through, but it's too bad that the highest rates are at the-- >> i've got to say i'm disappointed with the way american politics is going. look, i'm a european and i came here to a free economy and came before the reagan years and i lived the american dream. i just feel that, politically, we're not prepared to deal with the vast overspending on entitlements which which is what we're doing.

i don't think, i'm not confident that america will get to grips with it, how about you? >> i'm confident that measured america will come to grips with it. as we know, friedman said over and over again, government spending is taxation, governments don't create resources, they redistribute. and when government spending is high you've got a high tax bill and you wonder why the economy's growing so slowly and little chance that we'll get a major reform in spending over the next two years, and i think after the 2014 elections, stuart, happy to be an american and think you'll see a major shift politically and prosperity is going to be there. it just wasn't our time this time, but it will be in the future. >> i'm always happy to be in america, i ain't leaving, just-- >> i question, we need you here badly. we need you badly. you're just coming of age as you said a little bit earlier at 72, i feel i'm just a spring chicken. what can i tell you? >> wait a minute, you're 72, no.

>> yes, i am. stuart: talk my astonishment as a huge compliment, art laffer, incredible. you look great, great. >> thank you, oh, my goodness. stuart: you do. >> inside i'm not-- no, just teasing. stuart: art. we'll leave it at that. >> it's going to be a great couple of years, a great couple of years starting in 2014, you can count on that, you can bet the bank on it. stuart: i'm glad you left us with a positive there. that's terrific. stuart: art laffer, 72 incredible. thank you for joining us. >> thank you, stuart. stuart: totally different subject now, rights in egypt over the weekend, one dead, 40 injured and protesters stormed muslim brotherhood headquarters in northern egypt and they're angry about a huge power grab by morsi, and he basically made himself immune to any oversight and egyptian market down big, big, again today. here is what's coming up for you, new at 10 a single family home has always been the best

investment you can make, the way we used to think about it. according to a rasmussen poll no loaning longer the case, we'll bring you that the top of the hour and also now at 10, a gun store owner high schoas a messa obama supporters. if you voted for obama, your business is not welcome. and now sales are booming. ab abercrombie & fitch, shares are up, i want to know why, nicole. >> they've come out as the clear winner according to some of the analysts that follow the shopping we've seen the last four days, looking the at things such as the longest lines, units per transaction, and so, the oppenheimer analyst and don't forget, abercrombie has hollister, which is a very popular brand as well, under its umbrella. so, this is why this comes out as a clear winner during the shopping season and anntaylor came out the real loser, the

traffic never fully materialized and it's terrible. you know, when it's like we're talking about the holidays, long lines here and wal-mart is doing great and then hear anntaylor, boo, a down arrow. >> all right, nicole, thanks a lot. time is money and here we go again this monday morning, 30 seconds of what else we're watching for you today. a company in ohio required all its employees to get the flu shot and it's fired 150 of them for not complying, can they do that? judge andrew napolitano weighs in on that. is california a test case for the rest of the country when it comes to a carbon tax? the formerly golden state's cap and trade auction very accessful apparently and brought money into the government. we'll talk to a leading analyst about that and is america becoming an entitlement society? i think you know the answer, we'll discuss that with the man who wrote the book, "a nation of takers" coming up for you. the seven early movers,

downgraded mcdonald's, and down 86. and research in notion, big gains friday, opens for the blackberry 10, up nearly 12 bucks. and dreamworks, new movie, "rise of the guardians, fourth for the box office over the weekend. a little disappointing and it's down a little. and knight capital electronic trading firm, investors think they could sell the largest unit to raise cash even though the chief executive plays it. fair and balanced stock, look at that, up nearly 25% in two weeks and the brokerage firm bernstein expects to continue upgrading facebook and putting the price target at $33. it's 25 this morning. and then we have yahoo! goldman sachs adds it to the conviction buy list and it's now close to $19. all right. amazon, the most visited on-line shopping site on black friday,

probably will be again today. down a buck at 2.38. all right, the dow is down 82. the socialite paris hilton sparked outrage she opens a hand bag store in the holy city of mecca saudi arabia. here is the question. pure capitalism or another case of hollywood hipocracy? that's next. ♪ [ male announcer ] how do you trade? with scottrader streaming quotes, any way you want. fully customize it for your trading process -- from thought to trade, on every screen. and all in real time. which makes it just like having your own trading floor,

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. stuart: no meter between the president and congressional leaders this week, are scheduled on the fiscal cliff talks and that's not sitting well with the markets, down 74 points, as for

the price of oil. riots in egypt having no impact on the price of crude, $87 a barrel as of right now. now this, paris hilton opens a new store in mecca. saudi arabia, and that image not sitting well with a lot of of people. the holy muslim city and the woman best known for having a sex tape kind after juxtaposition, isn't it? and joining us now is kelly jane torrence of the weekly standard. kelly jane, i was shocked when i saw this and surprised and then i got to thinking, should paris hilton just go for the money, pure capitalism. open your store in mecca if that's what you want to do. or should she think about women's rights in the place where she's selling handbags? what do you think. >> i think both. talking about capitalism people are saying they're outraged about this, but obviously there's a market for people buying these handbags, otherwise the mall wouldn't open the store and this is not her first store

in saudi arabia. she's got four in the country, but the first in mecca, true. and non-muslims are not alloweda. the people who are buying these are muslims, people who say they're outraged. >> people cannot drive a car, cannot go alone and have to have a husband or a blood relative with them. a male. and i was reading over the weekend that husbands will now be informed i think via e-mail or text if their wives go out of the country. this is a real juxtaposition between the women in saudi arabia, mecca and the paris hiltons of this world who are all for absolute freedom of sexuality. doesn't that juxtaposition strike you at all? >> it does strike me, what's more striking is the number of people who are angry about paris hilton opening her store there, but who aren't doing anything to

help the plight of women in saudi arabia. in fact this monitoring that you mentioned in saudi arabia, women have to have a male guardian usually their husbands or fathers or their brothers, but i think, i mean, that's where the real outrage should be. people are upset about a hand bag store? look at the pictures of the store, there's no pictures of paris anywhere that i could see, it was just handbags, i'd like people less worried about that and more worried with people in their own country with what's there. stuart: and good point. i was shocked, i did not know

she she had an a store in mecca. >> it's a big juxtaposition and a shock, but keep m mind channel and versace were not exactly saints themselves. stuart: well said. kelly jane torrence. >> thanks, stuart. stuart: 9:49 eastern time. the cold report at 1,750 an ounce. and they're one the biggest bands in rock and roll history. once again the rolling stones are about to take america by storm. yep, they started their 50th anniversary concert tour in london. and liz macdonald and sandra smith remember the stones in their teenage years, in just a second.

>> i think there's something not quite right about this. the rolling stones kicked off the 50th anniversary tour, and mick jagger and comrades made it through a 20 song set. could they be trying to appeal to a younger generation? i feel there's something wrong guys almost 70, charlie watts is

over 70, prancing around on a stage with high sexuality songs and they're nearly 70 years old. >> so what? >> yeah, so what? >> why does it bother you. >> juxtaposition like paris hilton selling handbags in mecca. >> i don't mind that either. >> a rough crowd because we both disagree with you. they're playing familiar songs even people i would know from the rolling sounds and sound great and energy level was high and attracted a strong crowd and, hey. stuart: name two rolling sonton songs. >> honky tonk woman. >> and sympathy with the devil and get off my cloud, are they good in concert or are the studio albums better than the rolling stones in concert. stuart: they're not good in concert so i'm told. >> i've seen them, they're not. but people in their 70's anymore because people are just living long ner general and they're going to be-- >> rock and roll.

if mick jagger wants to prance around like a rooster until he's 90, who cares. stuart: one story, do you know keith richard should be dead, but he's not, he was a chorusist at queen elizabeth's coronation in 1953, did you know that. >> i didn't know that. isn't the average age of a rolling stone older than you. stuart: much older. i was at the same college as mick jagger, he left five years before i arrived and we had the same tutor dr. roy parker, the same tutor. and look at me. didn't do me any harm. . [laughter] >> whoa. new at ten. the single family home is the not the investment it once was, surprising news about how we feel about owning a home. new at ten, plus, a gun store owner bans obama supporters and business takes off. we'll show you why he thinks he's doing so well. both of those are new at ten moments from now.

stuart: new at 10:00, only 52% of americans believe a home is the best investment a family can make. that's a startling drop in confidence for the housing market which was once viewed as a can't miss investment. only 27% believe the value of their home will go up in the next five years. how about that.

here's another new at 10:00, a gun store owner in arizona bans obama supporters from his store and he says business is booming since he did it. why is that? he says no one who supports obama is going to buy a gun anyway. we're talking about both of those stories coming up. they are both new at 10:00. to the big board, down 68 points. the dow well below 13,000. here's our monday morning company. elizabeth macdonald is with us. sandra smith is here. nicole petallides on the floor of the new york stock exchange. nicole to you first. i see facebook stock up again. why today? nicole: a great day for facebook. take a look at the stock, up over 6%. this only tacks on to what we have been seeing recently for facebook. today it's an analyst upgrade from bernstein. upgrading facebook to outperform from a market perform. when you look at longer term trend, over 26 weeks, it's down about 25%. but the last three months, it's up over 20%.

so it shows a real about-face here for facebook. stuart: that's interesting because i see amazon has now turned around, up about a buck and a half. i see apple up about $7. so three of the big splash technology companies, they are up this monday morning. i don't think they have got anything in common, but they are all up. nicole: they each have their own good headline. that's a good start. stuart: i think you are right. you need a good headline and up you go. nicole thank you very much. big story today, is republicans they seemed to have changed their position on taxes in fiscal cliff debate. may have they have caved into pressure. -- maybe they have caved into pressure, maybe made a shift, but more republicans are saying they will accept higher taxes. listen to senator graham. >> when you are 16 trillion dollars in debt, the only pledge we should be making to each other -- republicans --

[inaudible] so i agree with grover, we shouldn't raise rates, but i think grover is wrong when it comes we can't cap deductions and buy down debt. stuart: he's referring to grover norquist who says you don't raise taxes period. senator graham is prepared to accept higher tax revenues, but let's be clear. he will not accept higher tax rates. there's a big difference. here's democrat senator carl levin >> have to go up, either real tax rates or effective tax rates, there's ways of doing that. secondly, though, we have to close some significant loopholes. stuart: over the weekend, we have had a shift. the republicans have shifted. they will accept higher tax revenue. the democrats still want higher tax rates. i'm saying, everybody, that the republicans are the ones doing the shifting here. the democrats are holding right where they always have been. sandra: republicans are definitely shifting, now talking about revenue, not about raising

tax rates, very different than that. but also put their foot down when it comes to entitlements, medicare and social security. they are also going to address spending in ways that democrats are not going to be happy about. so everybody is going to have to sort of cave here, it would seem. stuart: there has to be compromise on the other side as well as republicans on tax. maybe the democrats have to compromise on entitlement reform at some point. they haven't yet. sandra: grover norquist has already come out and said nobody is caving here, if they do, it is just a trap the republicans are falling into. and this is going to be horrible for republicans, especially in the next election. liz: he also pointed out that george h.w. bush won gulf war one and then really lost reelection. the berlin wall fell under george hw and then lost reelection because he broke read my lips. norquist says in the republican brand you don't raise taxes. as for entitlement reform,

democrats, many says we don't need entitlement reform, we want entitlements to be solvent, that's the issue there. stuart: the president will be on the road this week. i don't doubt for one moment he will keep pushing higher taxes, higher tax rates on people making more than $250,000 a year. no movement at all from the president or from senator carl levin. sandra: capital expenditures are way down. companies are refusing to hire in this environment. there's a huge level of uncertainty. liz: there's a danger for republicans, they don't want to be looked at as tax collectors for a growing welfare state. that's the danger for the g.o.p. in caving right here. stuart: you have got it. it used to be the best investment you could make was a single family home in a good neighborhood. that's what you always thought. buy a house, you will do okay. but people don't think like that anymore. here's the latest poll from rasmussen. the question was is buying a

home the best investment most families can make? 48% either said no or they're not sure. you know, company, that's a huge shift in the way we look at what used to be the ultimate investment, the middle america made to earn them some money and see them through retirement. it's changed. liz: you know i'm not surprised at this because it is basically an investment. they are thinking a home should be regarded as a home not a place to tap cash out of, your home equity line of credit for further spending. i think that's where the shift is. people are realizing the housing bubble blew up in their faces. stuart: you know, if they are coming out of houses as the best investment they can make, okay, they don't believe that anymore, don't believe in the stock market any longer, the small investor has been fleeing the stock market. i think they have gone into treasury securities and created a bubble which will burst at some point. sandra: i would completely agree with that. if you look at the positive here, it is a majority of

americans still think it is a best investment. the take away from that is they don't see anywhere else to go. where else are you going to put your money? stuart: a gold bar in the backyard, maybe, no, don't do that. let's move on to california shall we? where they rolled out their new cap and trade plan with a pollution permit sellout. businesses bought all 23 million permits at around $10 each. each permit allows companies to release 1 ton of carbon into the air per year. this basically a test case which is the rest of the nation will follow? joining us now is from front line strategist. what do you think, mark? raised a lot of money for the government there in sacramento. do you think other states will follow suit? >> well, none of them have so far and frankly they ought to take a look at the real numbers. even p though they raised -- even though they raised a little bit more, the vast majority of that raised will go to utilities and rate payers.

only 56 million dollars actually goes to the california state budget which of course this whole auction was supposedly going to be held to balance brown's budget. i guess the folks at the legislative analyst office here are a little bit underwhelmed. stuart: how about in the future? i believe the price of these things, the permits goes up in the future, is that correct? >> it goes away when all of the carbon tax credits are sold out. meaning, that the numbers reduce year by year. if you don't buy early, you might be left to paying a little bit more. part of the problem here, stuart is the fact that california businesses, if you are not going to expand because of all the restrictions and the negative, you know, business environment here, what's the point of buying more tax credits? or even worse, if you're leaving the state, you can't transfer those credits to another state that hasn't enacted these carbon tax credits. you know, i think this environmental windfall that everybody is expecting from these auctions just simply isn't going to happen. stuart: what's going to happen

to the average californian? for more their fuel, more for electricity, is that what's going to happen to them? >> i think it only follows suits. one of the things that's not being discussed in all of this is the businesses that are targeted for the carbon taxed emissions. if the businesses can't do that, the ones that are affected the most, are the ones that frankly employ the most blue-collar workers. that has a direct effect on california's middle class. stuart: do you think it will make any difference to global warming one way or the other? >> you know, the interesting thing about the tax credits that were sold here, see, the air resources board was originally supposed to be a market driven system provider, they set the emission standards. if businesses can't comply, they buy the carbon credits. if they are more efficient, they can sell to other companies. what they went over and above what ab 32 really calls for and established itself the opportunity to require companies to pay for the ability to emit

carbons. that will's what this auction was -- that's what this auction was all about. but none of it reduces the carbon emission standards one iota, not a single bit. stuart: only in california you lucky guy you. mark, thanks for joining us. >> you bet. stuart: a gun store owner in arizona banned obama supporters from entering his store. here's the ad he took out in a local paper. i'm quoting directly now, if you voted for barack obama, your business is not welcome. well, now he says it's not hurt business. in fact sales of his store have been booming since the president won a second term. what's your initial reaction to that, sandra smith? sandra: i think he's entitled to do this. i think it's a really interesting reaction. stuart: why is it interesting to you? sandra: you would think -- i guess the logical conclusion is supposed to be that it would drive some people away. obviously a majority of americans voted for president obama.

guess what? anybody who buys a gun is in favor of gun laws and our rights in this country, and they feel that president obama is not in defense on that. stuart: buy now to avoid cap on gun sales later? we've got the judge sitting here. i can't resist. can someone say on political grounds you can't come in my store? >> it depends on where you are. in our home state of new jersey, you cannot because there's a statute that prohibits, a store, a public accommodation, a hotel, any business from which the public is inviting from discriminating on the basis of political views for people coming on the premises. arizona doesn't have such a statute. you have a freedom to deal wither who you want. in -- you have the freedom to

deal with whoever you want in arizona. stuart: do we give up our privacy when we text people, when we e-mail, the voice mails we have, could those messages be used to invade our privacy and used in court against us? obvious question for the judge who p thats to be sitting here. he is the author of the book theodore and woodrow. how private are smart phones? >> i'm worried that i and people who think the way i do that the right to privacy is a fundamental right are losing this battle. it seems to be the vast use of these phones by the public and hence by law enforcement to learn what the public is saying doing and thinking is indicative of lack of privacy. here's my view, my view is when you and i communicate, it is a private communication, and if the government wants it, they

have to get a search warrant. whether they get it from you or whether they get it from means through which we communicate, the company that owns the equipment that allows our cell phones to communicate with each other. the courts have not yet ruled on this. however, the police are persuading google or whoever it may to give them this information without a search warrant, whether they use it in prosecutions and whether that use is upheld by appellate courts remains to be seen. liz: the argument on the part of law enforcement is -- i'm not saying i agree with this either way -- here's the argument, business records that phone companies hold on the part of consumers, when you go and break into a trunk of a car if there's a suitcase filled with marijuana, that's the same thing with a cell phone. >> there's actually an easier argument for the police. their argument is that if you and i communicate via a note, no one sees it. but if we communicate via

texting, that's like putting that note on a bulletin board, it goes through so many different steps to you and me, we ought to expect in one of those steps someone else will see it. stuart: it seems to me that my letter to you if i ever wrote one is much more private, much more difficult to get at than an e-mail that i might send you or a text message. >> that is the case, but it shouldn't be. they should all be equally as difficult under the 4th amendment for the government to get them. stuart: judge, i want you to stay right there. we are going to carry you over after the break because we have a company that fired 150 workers for not getting a flu shot. now, is that legal? save your answer until after these messages.

stuart: we started trading this monday morning after the long holiday break and started to the down side, not much, but we're down. 69 points lower for the dow. a big gain friday of course in a shortened session. we're giving some, just some of that back a little bit. look at the price of gold, it is flat right around $1,750 an ounce, just below that. rand gold resources is down this morning, has a big mine in the congo. violence there between rebel tribes and the government, worries that could disrupt the mining operation, down it goes. 247 million people that's how many shopped this weekend either in a store or on-line. that's a huge number. a lot of them will be shopping today on-line instead of working maybe. today's what's called cyber monday. one of the biggest days of the

year for on-line shopping, if not the biggest. all right everybody, you've got to stay right there. 90 seconds, the judge is back. we have a company that fired 150 people because they did not get a flu shot. can you do that? from local communities to local businesses. the potential of yelp unlocked. nyse euronext. unlocking the world's potential. a currency market for everyone. the potential of fxcm unlocked. nyse euronext. unlocking the world's potential. i heard you guys can ship ground for less than the ups store. that's right. i've learned the only way to get a holiday deal is to camp out. you know we've been open all night. is this a trick to get my spot? [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. save on ground shipping at fedex office.

monarch of marketing analysis. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm going b-i-g. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. go national. go like a pro. stuart: a hospital operator required all of its employees to get flu shots to protect them and the patients, obvious. more than 10,000 of those employees did so, they got the

shot. 150 did not and the company fired them. all rise judge napolitano is back. can you do that? >> well, the answer is again is not yes or no. it sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on the fact. we will assume that being healthy is a bona fide occupational requirement because this is a hospital. these are not construction workers outside. these are people dealing intimately with other people's bodies. stuart: yes. >> so does is a hospital have the right to force its employees to stay healthy? the answer is yes, clearly yes. the next question is is getting a flu shot the only way to avoid getting the flu? is it a guarantee that you will stay healthy? or is there a guarantee you will get sick if you don't get it? that's where it gets a little -- stuart: no, i think the next question is what about people in an office, nothing to do with healthcare at all, they are insurance workers, for example, could they be forced to get a flu shot on the grounds that they are in close proximity to each other? >> look at us, sometimes -- if i

leave the studio and say i'm getting a flu in two days, sandra is not going to be happy. stuart: answer the question. >> the employer can probably do what is necessary to maintain the business, that is the health of the people that do what they do, whether we interact closely with each other in a studio. stuart: a flu shot can be a condition of employment, but only if stated up front when you sign on for the job? >> well i think it could probably change after you have the job but you would have to be given a lot of notice and alternati alternative. you need to look at each case. bottom line, they can do what they need to do to keep their employees healthy and customers safe. liz: take the workers side here, do they have a grounds for lawsuit here? >> yes they do. as we were talking during the break, the flu shot is not a guarantee you are not going to get it. if you don't take the flu shot,

that doesn't mean you are going to get it. if they don't take the flu shot and they do get the flu and patients were harmed, then they have no basis. then the employer was right. sandra: on the trading floor, there are thousands of guys in chicago, they put a big sign up, free flu shots, they are not insisting you get it but they are making it easier for you to get it. those guys are spitting on each other all day long. [talking over each other] stuart: what was the point you were trying to making? [laughter] sandra: sorry. stuart: what about obama care? i mean, if you got more than 50 employees, full time employees, you've got to provide healthcare. could you not make it a condition of employment that look, i'm responsible for your healthcare, therefore, you've got to take care of your health, you've got to have a flu shot? >> probably coming and that would be an excellent argument in court. the government might make that argument. we are the ultimate guarantor

for your medical bills. we're going to tell you how to keep healthy, exercise more and don't eat carbohydrates. stuart: i oppose all of this vigorously. i don't want any government, any authorities saying get a flu shot or ou're fired. i don't want that, do you? >> no, i'm generally with you, but we are creating a society in which authoritarian attitude will mandate what our behavior should be and the consequences are odious. stuart: sandra of course would say get a flu shot or you're fired. sandra: you are putting words in my mouth. i would encourage it, not mandate. liz: would you put it on the employee questionnaire, would you also fire smokers too? would you say did you have your flu shot and are you a smoker? >> you know, this is going to create an additional burden for the government because as these people are fired, they will want compensation to come from the government for their loss of work. who is going to pay for that? the taxpayers. liz: jobless benefits. sandra: this is a problem now

because there are so many more strands of the flu than there ever had been before. this is a new environment where the companies have to adapt. liz: like the h1n1 virus. stuart: should a cigarette smoker get a new lung, lung transplant? >> whatever happened to be the right to be left alone. stuart: thank you, judge. that was the best last word you've ever come up with. yes, sir. thank you very much indeed. judge napolitano, everybody. i think he deserves a round of applause. excellent. >> since i have had a flu shot, i can go? >> stuart: i'm on page 278 on his book. i tried to relax over the holiday weekend, but after seeing some rich liberals take on taxes, that feeling of

relaxation totally vanished. my take on that is next.

>> i wish they could keep those highest tax rates low and where they are because that's where job creators are, but i think the republicans will ultimately come to a deal. you know, they have to, otherwise obama can hold this over their heads and just beat them with it and beat them with

it. stuart: that was in our last hour on the probability of republicans caving or shall we say shifting on tax increases. i have breaking news for you, right now the new york times reporting that mary shapiro will announce she's stepping down as the head of the sec. she will do so next month. that would be december. yahoo! shares, what's this? now they are up to what almost 19 bucks a share? what's going on with yahoo!? nicole: back to the levels back in 08, new multiyear high here for yahoo!. you see it is up close to 2% right now. goldman sachs added yahoo! to the conviction buy list this morning, upping it from the buy to the conviction buy list. one of the reasons they were doing that is because they purchased 212 million dollars worth of shares in the fourth quarter. they expect it to continue to cut costs, and they are less pessimistic on what they had been on the search business. you put it together, it makes a great day for yahoo!. stuart: looks like it worked, almost 19 for yahoo! who would

have thought. nicole thank you very much indeed. do you realize that the fiscal cliff is just about three weeks away, maybe less? but still democrats are not talking entitlement reform. the cliff is close, but no real talk of entitlement reform. record number of americans on food stamps, all of that coming up at 10:45, from the man who literally wrote the book on a nation of takers. i tried to relax over the long thanksgiving holiday. i tried to take a break. but foolishly i checked in with the establishment media on sunday, and all the good vibes disappeared. here's my take on just one new york times article written by steven ratner, the man who was a counselor to the treasury during the gm bailout. he by the way is fabulously wealthy. and thoroughly plugged in to democrats top hierarchy, i'm talking steven ratner. here's what he wants, a near

doubling of the capital gains tax rate for the rich, 28%, no problem. raise the tax rate on anyone making more than $250,000 a year, just pay up. and get this, he says those people, 250,000 or more, they don't need tax-free health insuran insurance, mortgage interest rate deductions, you just don't need it. the rich can afford it, says mr. ratner. and the government needs the money. this is pure politics. the government will give you everything, and the rich can pay. that won the election, idn't it? but let's be clear, mr. ratner's wealth, his own wealth will not be taxed. he made his pile as an investment banker with lehman brothers. you know, the firm that went under and set off the global panic and the wall street bailout. the wealth he is sitting on will not be touched in any significant way by his proposals. and when he passes, he will have an army of lawyers to avoid the estate tax. no, it's the strivers who will be taxed, the people working hard to climb the food chain.

they are the ones who bump up against mr. ratner's tax regime. he won't pay. you will. just like you're still paying for mr. ratner's gm bailout. but let's not be too sour in this holiday season. i remain an optimist. at some point i do believe america will get back to be the way it ought to be. [ male announcer ] the markets keep moving. make sure the news keeps coming with thinkorswim by td ameritrade. use the news links breaking stories with possible breakout stocks, options with potential opportunity, futures and forex with in-depth analysis. it's an all-you-can-eat buffet for all things trading. thinkorswim by td ameritrade. it doesn't just deliver news. it's making news. trade commission free for 60 days, plus get up to $600 when you open an account.

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stuart: you know, we are told that worker productivity is going to be down today because people are shopping on-line. that's what they call cyber monday. once those packages are ordered, they need to be shipped. that's where our next guest comes in the -- comes in. he works for a company that acts as a middleman between retailer and shipping company. the orders come on-line, our next guest ships them out. he is with us today. even though it is the biggest day of the year for this guy, he takes time out to sit with us on varney & company. welcome to the program. >> thank you very much stuart. stuart: you run one huge warehouse. size of three or four football fields? >> that is correct, 300,000 square feet. stuart: an order comes in on line and you ship it out? >> that is correct. stuart: i am told these warehouses are highly automated, everything is computerized, is that true?

>> to some extent. very computer driven, computer oriented but it is very difficult to automate the actual steps. in the e-commerce business, we specialize in flash sales, although we do a lot of -- stuart: what's a flash sale? >> where a sale goes on very high discount for a limited amount of time. you have to be a member to join. and the theory being that you -- it's like the sales of the women's samples, they would line up around the street to get that sale, but only one of the item. same thing with flash sale, very limited number but high discount. so the volumes can be very very heavy. stuart: all of a sudden? >> all of a sudden. you could put on a pair of shoes that someone wants, it will bring the computers to their knees. stuart: how long is the time frame between when the order comes in on-line to when you ship this thing out? >> well, again, it also depends upon the vendor on the e-tailer. stuart: give me an average. >> it can depend -- vary from 6 hours to 36 hours. what has happened is things --

in the begins when we first started -- in the beginning when we first started e-tail, shipments would go out so quickly that customers had no chance to change the order. what happened is they would say i've changed my mind, i want to -- no, you can't, it's already out the door. stuart: so you guys like a little delay? you don't want same day delivery, you want a little delay? >> if you want same day delivery, you certainly -- stuart: you heard my question. >> i did hear it. stuart: you guys want a little delay, don't you? >> it certainly helps. for several reasons, first of all there's the economy of scale of consolidating orders. i have 300,000 square feet. now, you're certainly not going to go out with one order in your hand and go pick one item at a time, you would go out of your mind. you want to consolidate orders. the more you can go to a certain densely populated area in the warehouse, the more efficient it is going to be. liz: what are the secrets of on-line shopping on cyber monday in terms of shipping, that premium one day shipping doesn't exist, are you giving it to ups instead and it is not really overnight? >> if you want to pay for

premium shipment, you will certainly get it. liz: but you pay for it but then it turns into a standard shipping where it's a week later you get it. are those the secrets viewers need to know about cyber monday? >> it is a reality. you are a consumer, you will buy a t-shirt 20 bucks you won't want to pay $15 in transportation charges. if you use ups or fedex or their ground service, the dirty secret is yes you have a base rate for ups, but then add residential fuel surcharges, other various, by the time you get done, you are paying for as much as shipping services. it has nothing to do with me or getting it out. it has to do with the reality of getting it to you. stuart: where does your profit come from? >> handling the item. i actually charge per order. we look at an order -- we have been doing this for a lot of years. stuart: if it's a $100 order, you get a percentage? >> i normally charge on a flat rate. stuart: no matter how big the order, flat rate? >> we have been in business

since 47. we're big boys, we look at a job -- stuart: you have not been doing on-line retailing since 1947? >> we have been doing fulfillment. on-line is a little bit different. i have shipped everything from tires to perfume bottles, so we've done a little bit of everything. we know what it takes to get a job done. sandra: what can you tell us so far about the last couple of days? >> let me tell you something, first of all, because you mentioned the cost of next day. what is happening now in the industry is reducing the cost of transportation. i wish i received half of what the delivery services received for my service. so what we're having to do now, we, the internet businesses is they have to offer a variety of shipping methods. including the post office. now the problem with the post office, the post office does a lousy job of long haul. they can't do it well. people like ups, fedex, the truckers, they can get it across-country in a heart beat. what the post office does really well is deliver to every house every day. and that's what's costly for

fedex and ups and the others because they don't do it. stuart: so you would like to have people who want a short delivery route, near your warehouse, you want them to use the post office? >> what's happened now is you have what they call consolidators. fedex and ups has it. they will take your product. they will fill in the empty spots in the planes and the trucks, get it across the country and put it in the post office for what they call the last mile of delivery. now you have it consolidated. you have the savings of using the post office which is less and quickness of using the ups and fedex. so while it's a little bit more in the post office, it is heck of a lot less than ups or fedex. the customer doesn't see that much of a delay. so it's what they call -- what you're striving for in this business is the customer experience. customers, especially -- liz: but the shippers are smart. they know how to take advantage of the taxpayer paid for post office to their advantage, is that what you are saying? >> that's correct.

but taxpayer paid for, believe me, it is not cheap. stuart: how many people do you have working for you today? >> about 150 people. stuart: in a 300,000 square foot warehouse? >> that's correct. stuart: are they working all day long? >> two shifts, up and down the aisles, you know, when you pick -- one of the reasons that we've done well in the internet business is our computer system is very flexible. so we've been able -- designed it ourselves. we're able to accommodate the different methods needed for e-commerce. they don't run up and down the aisles. everything they do is very directed. everything they do is done in bulk. otherwise you couldn't get it done. stuart: why did you agree to appear on the program today? >> am i crazy? i don't know. i don't mind talking about e-commerce. our websites up. stuart: do you love it? >> it's exciting. yeah, most people my age are retired. no way i would retire. i love the thrill of it. it is like a battle. stuart: most people of your age? and you are? >> 65 years old. stuart: are you really?

liz: the rolling stones are older than you. >> that's true. i would like to hire you. he's got a lot of energy. stuart: you were great. we wish you the best on this very difficult day. it is great hearing how you do your business. >> thank you very much. it's been a pleasure. stuart: hold on right there. >> okay. stuart: can't walk across the camera while i'm on. >> okay. [laughter] stuart: we will take you out in a second. [laughter] stuart: america is indeed becoming an entitlement nation. a record number of people getting government handouts. as we approach the fiscal cliff, will president obama seriously consider entitlement reform? we will discuss it with a man who knows next. now we need a little bit more... [ male announcer ] at humana, we understand the value of quality time and personal attention. which is why we are proud to partner with health care professionals who understand the difference that quality time with our members can make... that's a very nice cake!

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stuart: significant development in a challenge to obama care, the supreme court says liberty university's case should be heard by by a lower court. liberty says it should not be forced to provide health insurance on religious grounds. look at the shares of facebook. analysts have high hopes for the company's new efforts to increase advertising revenue, bernstein upgraded the stock, setting $33 a share target. the stock is up about 30% in just ten days. big gain today as well. the dow industrials still lower. we're off 70 points as we speak. the new president of the bank of england, that's similar to the fed chairman here, the twist is he's a canadian. we're back in 90 seconds with a

man who wrote the book a nation of takers. he knows all about entitlement and entitlement reform and debt. [ malannouncer ] it'that time of year again. time for cii price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. citi price rewind. buy now. save later.

stuart: one last check with nicole because apple stock has gone back up again. why? nicole: citigroup has now talked positively about apple. we had all the analysts being bullish on the tech trio. we talked about facebook. we talked about yahoo!. and you're seeing apple today up

over $7. plus they're working on patents and fighting very hard against samsung. today you had another analyst talking positively about apple. it's not at $700, but up 7 bucks. i think some people like to hear that. stuart: nicole thank you very much indeed. there's one subject which i want to know more about and that is entitlement reform. because in my opinion, if we don't get the reform of the entitlement system, this country goes broke. joining the company from washington is nicholas eberstadt with the american enterprise institute and the author of a nation of takers, america's entitlement epidemic. mr. eberstadt is the expert on this subject. welcome to the program. good to have you with us sir. >> thank you for inviting me. stuart: do you know of any plan from president obama or any leading democrat that really does reform entitlements? >> certainly the white house has not offered any glimpse into any

thinking in that regard. i haven't heard or seen anything from the senate side in that regard either. there are some democrats who have talked about entitlement reform, like on the bowles simpson commission, but they seemed to have been pretty well relegated to -- stuart: this is my opinion that the president may pay lip service in terms of doing something about entitlements but will not go through with real reform. i think he will just simply delay any change to the basic entitlement system and just go on borrowing the money to pay for it. again, this is a very -- this is an opinion on my part. what do you say? >> well, it seems that entitlement reform has been genuine third rail in american politics. nobody wants to talk seriously about it in the white house. it's hard to find people who

want to talk about it in more than generalities in either chamber. and this spending machine is continuing and continuing crowding out the fence, piling up debt. nobody seems to have the stomach to confront it yet. stuart: if we don't confront it, if we don't have entitlement reform, that means a change in the structure of entitlements, do we go broke? do we have a debt crisis at some point down the road? >> well, i suppose if you're an optimist, you think that the crisis will come quickly, and if you're a pessimist, you think that the crisis will not come quickly, but that we instead will pile up debt upon debt in the public sector, crowd out our mortgage credit, crowd out our investment funds, and end up -- end up as greece further on down the road. stuart: wow, that's quite a statement. end up as greece further on down the road.

it would seem to me to be relatively simple to raise, say, the retirement age for social security. i mean, we're all living longer. i mean you can make a pretty good case for that, can't you? >> sure. i mean, we are taking -- we are taking some steps, some would say baby steps towards reforming social security. the monster white whale is the medicare system which is at this point tens of trillions of dollars underfunded. i mean on current trajectories, it is tens of trillions of dollars in the hole. and you need to make really huge changes in the the healthcare entitlements to bring that back into balance. stuart: i'm afraid we're out of time, but nicholas, i would love to have you back again because that last statement, tens of trillions in debt. >> yeah. stuart: in the future. that's astonishing. please come back and see us. i want to dwell on that point

alone, if you would, sir. thank you very much, nick. we appreciate you being here. >> look forward to it. stuart: come on back, got to have it. all right, two big money stories for you coming up. first, the powerball jackpot hits a record 425 million dollars. second, the twinkie has a logical buyer. we will talk about both of those stories next. twins. i didn't see them coming. i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligatio. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares re, buding blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. music is a universal language. but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life.

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stuart: please take a look at this number, 425 million dollars that is the new powerball jackpot because nobody won after saturday's drawing. officials say that number could be higher as sales pick up closer to the drawing. all right everybody. what do you make of this? 425? i say legalize lotteries are the best way of taxing poor people. you say? b sandra: that's not just a guess or proximation on your part. studies show that most lottery tickets are bought in the poorest areas in the states of the country. it is sort of a tax on the poor. when you think about it compared to their income, they are paying much more on the dollars for their tickets. i think it is a scam. liz: it is regressive and hits the poor. the tax man really hits you hard if you don't take lump sum payment in the first year. stuart: if you take the lump sum payment, 425 million dollars, you will lose half of it right

at the get-go, in taxes. if you pay it or you get it paid to you over 20 years, and you have the misfortune of dying in the first year, your estate has to pay income tax on all the expected 19 years of income, in a lump sum right now. liz: wow. who knew that. stuart: i knew. i don't play lotteries. there is a logical buyer out there to keep the twinkie alive called flowers foods, maker of the tasty cake could save those hostess brands. are you convinced that the twinkie will live? i say yes. no way they are going to get rid of the twinkie. liz: the company itself, their advisors -- [inaudible]. i like the idea of another food group in there, you have to have the twinkie in there. stuart: would you use the bakers union to bake the twinkie and the teamsters to deliver them? liz: they might have to.

stuart: why would you buy them? you can't make a profit with the old workforce. sandra: have to change over time. liz: you can reorganize your contracts in bankruptcy court with the unions. sandra: only 150 calories in a twinkie. by the way the twinkie was invented and first made in my home state of illinois. i think this is an american staple that likely will stick around. stuart: 150 calories? how many miles running does it take to work that off? sandra: oh, that's less than half hour. stuart: the highlight reel is next. having you ship my gifts couldn't be easier.

well, having a ton of locations doesn't hurt. and a santa to boot! [ chuckles ] right, baby. oh, sir. that is a customer. oh...sorry about that. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. fedex office.

man: we are rolling. all right, mama's gonnna bring it home, mama's gonna bring it home. oh, no! man: oh, mom! aah! announcer: challenge your kids to be active and eat healthy. all right, let's see what you can do. let's go. announcer: search "we can" for ideas on how to get healthy together. stuart: first day back after thanksgiving. here it is, the highlight reel. >> a gun store owner refuses business to people who support barack obama.3

>> anyone who buys a gun is in favor of gun laws. >> sales at his store have been booming since the president won a second term. >> you have no sense and should not be owning a gun. stuart: do you want to elaborate a little feedback the gun store owner himself. i am not saying that personally in my opinion. he was putting out a political statement. he was advertising his store knowing he would do very well. >> there is no evidence that he has done that. stuart: in arizona, you can turn people away from your store. you do not have to do business for people. you can throw them out. >> it depends on the state. stuart: in new jersey, my home state, you would not think i