specializing i cmercial real estate in the baltimore-washington area. >> i am not sure with what will happen on the tax treatment of that stuff. i long it for long-term fort foalos. david asbin is coming up on forbes on fox. you are watching all things news. you are watching fox and dave and now. well, liberal are fanning in america today pushing the president's agenda for tax increases with few if any spectaculars about spending cuts. many of these are specific about what they don't want cut and don't touch entitlement spending echoed by democraticic lawmake. >> i think social security should be taken off from the table. >> moment yoize social security or voucherize

medicare or block grant medicaid you lose us. >> but the new forbes report showing that moreeople in the states are taking money from the government than the private sector, can our nation afford a deal that doesn't put so-called entitlements on the table. i am dave. we'll go t mike, to you. we have to put entitlements on the table? >> for the sake of the over all economy we must put enments on the table. over the last four years entitlement spending is growing faster than the over all economy. this is why president obama has this country in record debt. that hurt the economy. take-home pay decreased under president obama. we must get entitlements under

control. >> rick at the unemployment and housing vouchers. it is 800 billion extra spending. doesn't that have to be cut. >> there is no chance that there will be a dole without entitlement cuts. what senator durbin is talking about is the importance of focusing. if we want a deal you will not doing by taking a wide sprect rum approach. president clinton was clear when he spoke to the republicans. he pointed out that t biggest driver of the united states debt is medicare. he understands that we have to face up to the medicare problem. we need a solution. >> the conference that rick was referring tompt he said folks, i won and i get to make the decision and he grew the budget by 800 billion every year.

one-time stimulus has happened every year of the presidency and the president through tim geithener is making a proposal and raising taxes. >> it is absurd what is in the propose and the president is proposing. we hear the psident saying that tax hikes on the upper brackets will solve all of the problems and it pay for government spending for a week and a half . the president said he would stop the seas from rising. he might want to stop the oceans of red ink that are rising. listen, they make this point. federal taxpayers ponying up to cer up the short fall of social security. white house said that is happening . lbj in the '60s got the government's mitts on social security funds to cover the cost of the viet nam war.

>> mark, that is the issue . money in social security should be there but it is not. a lot of it isn't because politicians can't keep their grumy fingers off of it and they use it for other stumpt >> the problem with social security we cut the pay roll tax. if we increase it to the level it was, i don't think we would have a problem with social security. entitlements need to be on the table. entitlements are 13 percent of the total budget. the big pot is dense spending. we spend trillions on defense. federal pension that is 22 percent of the federal budget. we give pensions to members of congress and let's look at that and look at entitlements and look at the big honey pot and the big spending. >> i am all with mark in bringing down the pensionss of the politicians. here are the facts, in 2009, we had a stilus spending.

800 billion extra from 2008. guess what, it never stopped. it was supposed to be a one stop 2010 and 11 and 12 we have maintained the extra spending in a time when we had cut back on military spending. >> absolutel >> and that is increasing and guess what, that adds up to the deficit, right? >> david, the probl is deeper than what you are describing. this goes back decades. when you look at entitlement spending over the last half century, it has steadily crept up four percent every year and that incdes adjustments for population growth. so what then? you increaseaxes four percent every year? that is absurd. at some point we need both parties to come together and tax this entitlement creep. we mention obama ape lot.

he hasn't helped the numbers. but when you look at enment spending it goes up under a republican president. he can go in this and blame the republicans. >> i didt know there was a entitlement creep. maybe i got you wrorong. >> it is i an itch. >> and john, what about this. we have a budget if you can call it a budget that includes tax increases and no cuts at all from our treasury security. >> the tax increase aspect is ridickulous. we have a spending problem . you look at entitlements. i think it is i i don't they should exist. we did make promises and so the idea should not be cutting entitlements and those nearing retirement you will be made but those of you who are not

congentitally socialist you can opt out and don't have to participate in medicare and social security. that's how you cut enments. >> by the way, that grole you hed when john said there was not a spending problem that came from rick and mark. rick, don't we have a spending problem at all. >> of course we do. i don't dy that. why is it not addressed by the president? >> it is this kind muchunging to get us over the fiscal cliff. we are two parts to the soluti. focus on the correct entitlements to cut and reorganize medicare so it works but doesn't take us down the drain. >> there are no offer the allelula. zero cuts. >> we are in negotiation. what happened this week. >> it is it a call for unconditional surrender is what it is. >> you think this is going to be the deal. >> victoria when you come to a bargaining table you start high and pull back.

but this proposal, had no spending cuts all all. >> there is a stimulus increase. >> it s unbelievable to me. >> what is that mark? >> you are saying -- >> we he a revenue problem. we took away a trillion out of the budget by giving tax cuts to rich people and you need to put that revenue back. >> by the way, >> we spend another trillion. >> they are tax rates . they are not tax cuts. they are tax rates . how much they bring in. >> what are you talng about? >> billion a year . that is 84 billion that is enough to cover government spending for a week and a half. the issue, dc lives in a bubble land. they are in 1996 bubble land menitality with the real estate going up in the dc area and so disconnected with the rest of the country. >> victoria.

i cut you off. finish your point. >> i can't believe you are saying the issue is medicare. i am sorry what was obama trying to do with obama care . why was not not addressed and why is that now on the table. you have to realize it is not a administration that wants to do cuts. >> easy answer to that. if you look at original drafts of what the president was talking about when he started ou he wanted address medicare. >> no. sure he wanted to address it . we can address that issue for another hour but we are running out of the time. did you hear what may be on the table to slve our debt mess? raising the gas tax on everybody. will that make a bigger financial mess for at 1:00

p.m. eastern on fox. here is a tax increase that republicansant you to swallow. inease in t federal gas tax that would force you to pay more in the pump. e republican transportation chairman in the house of representatives is not rule out. john standy, you say any hike will hit the middle class. how so? >> it will be hit on the ddle class for the simple reason that the republicans and democratics are devaulting the dollar and the americans are paying out nose bleed levels . adding another tax is offensivee and misses the

point. weon't have a revenue problem in the country. go back to clinton's last year in office. we spent half and hardly not on the street. >> morgan, the gas tax is regressive. it hits, it doesn't hit just the rich folks but middle class and poor. it hits harder than the rich folks. >> i am for discussion for the gas tax hikes. i think our government should do the refining prices better to tamp down the price of gas it hasn't been hiked since 1993. it is not adjusted for inflation . the truth of the matter it funds the highway trust fund and we are seeing a major budgetary short fall.

>> actually mike, it is not a bad point. if the federal government has been coming in to fill that gap without this gas tax going up, is this one tax that maybe should go up. >> no, john is right. at a time when personal income is falling, we don't want to raise the cost of the living for people. that would be terrible. moms drives kids around and people driving to work. the federal government raids the trust fund. >> like social security, right. >> it is not like the increase of revenue would go to rebuilding roads. that's not the case. >> rick, you don't like regressive tax and hit the poor and middle class. you couldn't be for this. >> i can be for it and shockingly i think john is wrong. i think we have a revenue problem. i am for it friends o the panel tell me if we can get more oil out of the ground

here in the united states, gas prices will go down. guess what, here we are told that we are on the verge of becoming the oil super power in the world. what better time to raise the revenue by apportions taxes on people who use the gasoline. you have told me prices are coming down. now we will have all of the additional oil what a great way to raise money. >> emac, now we have potential of getting prices under control it is not the time to boost them up again. >> gas tax going up higher if we move to fuel efficient cars if the administratn has its way. it hits the poor and middle class. contractors and landscapers and truckers and plumbers. norks not just passenger. >> poor people who drive to work . since 1934 when it was first launched, the gas tax there was a 17 year period if that starting in '56 when it the went to build highways. congress got its mitts .

buying properties and renaming bridges or buildings and parks after themselves . politicians monuments to me . then it makes the country look like ubezis stan. gas tax hits the poor hard. >> not only the poor people driving cars and also as emac said, all . extra costs deliver trucks and pass on the increased cost to the rest of us. >> it is it a tax on movement of people and stuff. it is it a broad tax and certainly hits people with lower incomes harder because they're spending more of their income on gas. if you asked the question in 2004, you could make a case for gas tax. but our economy is teetering on economy. it is a stealth tax and never goes away and the funds don't go to highways and nothing

down to encourage driving . the tax revenue will go somewhere else. >> john, i mentioned in the top of the segment that republicans are apparently okay or considering it. the new republican head of the committee in the house of representatives said he will not put it off of the table. >> if they do this, this is the quick path to being the minority party. hopefully they will wake up to that. ate point washington works for us and not them. why can't they sacrifice and spend less of wour money so we don't have to pay more. a union blitz against private companies is a victoryry by big labor about to drive up the fax spill. wait until you hear this coming up next.

now one plan to take union pensions off of the backs of taxpayers has failed in california. government unions declaring a major victory and killing off a reform victory that replaced with 401 k style investment plans. it is a defeat for taxpayers how so? >> the pension under fundeds are massive. we'll see hikes in taxs and

sales tax increases and more worse is bankruptcies. we see that in stockton and san bernardino. we go to court and bankruptcy law versus pension law. you can see current services cut. tax hikes and other lousy outcomes if we don't see reforms. >> you admit we are having problems paying out the pensions. they are bankrupting. >> the pblem is that los angeles is not the place. and it is a ballot initiative. you have front runners that become mayor . they will not support it it was a nonstarter and never going to work in thetave . you have a better chance of succeeding. >> at least it was a plan . it is no law that said you cannot change 401 k's. that is future and new hires

and for their plans. you don't have ill defed benefits and by the way the private sector doesn't get. there is a pension liabity in the state of the california. vicki is right. government services are starting to get cut in cities in california . so i tell you, it doesn't cut it when you have things like let's raise the retirement age to age 52. >> the fact is, these things are going broke. right now the budget 26 percent of la's budget is consumed by the budget cuts and what are you going to do? >> i agree. there is i a problem with pensions . they are underfunded and we need to do something about it and the big thing here david, let's be fair and they are benefits that are promised to the employees and we nide to make them whole and they were promised in llieu of pay.

>> mike, no one is talking about taking away what was promised. this was for new employees and going into the future. one of the things this will stop david is the way policians get taxpayers to sign off on the pensions. only so much in salary and we are going to make up the difference and benefits with investment returns . they don't materialize you get situations like california. in california they are shutting down entire strites. >> i think everybody we have to do something. powerball mania taking over the country. is the real story lesson on how to power dn the national debt. first, right here, you may not have won that big jackpot. informers had stocks that are profitable than the powerball in the trash can.

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