unseen. sometimes i fear no one understands so it's a relief to meet the few people who do. >> i believe government is here to fix our streets, roads, and protect us, but they don't need to protect people from their jobs. >> three cheers for her. you at home who understand it's freedom, not central planning that gis us better lives, that's our show. thanks for watching, i'm john stossel. ♪ >>. >> neil: if you are still waiting for an end of the year deal before the edge of the cliff, 80 congressmen are saying not with any of our stuff.

80 democrats are saying better not touch entitlements with leave medicare alone and medicaid alone. don't think about touching social security echoing many of the same warnings. it leaving you wondering if they are not cutting and we're down to tax hikes that republicans are proposing, where is all of this going? to charles? >> i guess we go through the weekend sing no one knows where it is going. it's going nowhere. the irony was set up as ultimate. we're going to force you to make the ultimate choice. it will include combination of taxes or revenue and spending cuts. spending cut parted has not been in the conversation at all and it's absurd because that is the crux of the problem. >> neil: we both had conversations with congressmen, they don see any need to cut. the best they do is promise they

will address next year? >> what is going to end up happening, if they did agree to some cuts and changes to entitlements, you will see tax increases immediately and then an agreement to cut spending down the road, changes to the entitlement programs down the road at some point. there isn't a sense of our seven describe -- urgency because you have the federal reserve willing to buy the nation's debt and buy more of it. so there isn't that urgency. we'll haveaxes go up and spending, nothing. >> neil: let's say we don't get a deal. which is worse for wall street? >> i think kick the can. i will say this, when you talk to ceos they believe, i know it's not price in order the market, they are saying we're not going to get the deal. they say the dates to look forward if the is a chance to get a deal right before

christmas. if we hit the january point where we hit the cliff, right after, but they doubt it. for the simple reason boehner is trying to be -- democrats and republicans -- boehner is trying to get offered resists and tax increases and president has nothing to take to his people. if you are an investo 13 plus on the dow, be warm because it could take a big, be wary. businesses hate the notion of uncertainty. if they delay for it a year they delay some tax increase look for the markets to go down significantly. >> neil: ben? >> this is ultimate exercise irresponsibility by the congress. i am really disappointed in the caucus and democrats who say we're not going to consider cutting entitlements. this is the war between the

haves and have nots. we talked about class warfare. it's upon us, look, we don't want to pay any taxes. we wanted to have our entitlements. take it from the other guy's side. maybe they are right. it's incredibly grand example, very disappointing to see one group is saying it's all for the other guy. it's not our responsibility. we're goingo vote ourselves ever more money. >> neil: adam? >> here where i disagree. we cited this figure of 80 democrats. there is some number of republians that people have signed fundamentally opposed to raising taxes in any way shape or form. nancy pelosi fundamentally opposed to giving in on entitlements. good news is john boehner and president obama is not two of those people. they are negotiating. >> neil: it has to be voted on.

>> hold on. their job as leaders. >> with all due respect, you are factually inrrect. republicans are willing to give. republicans are coming forth we're not going to be bound by grover norquist tax pledge. but they are saying they are willing to give. president and the democrats will not give an inch on spending cuts, forget about an inch, a centimeter. >> i have to say on that, the fact of the matter is you do know boehner has come out and extended an olive branch in public. so far the president has not done that. i keep hearing democrats talk about polls. they are in a win-win situation. it's all about a popularity contest and not about the fiscal health of the country. >> it's so unpatriotic for the

not to be staying there. i don't know why they are going home for christmas. its national crisis. they should be there working there every minute to get this solved. >> just real quickly, not that i don't think there is a sense of urgency or there should be. there should absence of urgency. if w don't get it it done the day before christmas, it's not the end have the world. we can get it done the second week of january. i don't think we should get too upset about it. >> like i said wall street is begtd that second due date is right in early january. there is no give on the other side. i am telling you that democrats are not giving a dime. that is why from the ceo suite they believe this is going t kick in. >> neil: republicans call the democrats, we'll go back to clinton era tax rates.

the ball is in your court. >> they won't buy it because there will be conditns on the republicans we go back to the spending. >> neil: we raise taxes so it's on you. they say, you don't like it we'll go back to clinton era taxes. i'm just saying you take that away and republicans agree to raise rates it puts the onus to on the democrats to put up or shut up. >> i don't know if that would happen. in terms of the spending, president obama and his original plan wanted more stimulus, infrastructure spending, extended unemployment benefits. how is that going in the correct direction? >> it's a political question more than a market question. what could boehner get his people to agree to? i don't think he can get them to agree to nothing.

i think the republican party. >> i agree with you. >> you won't seem to be hinting at no deal. >> i am telling you the executive suite where the intelligence is, deal is growing increasingly likely or kick the can. >> charlie, what happens to the defense cutting into place? civilian cutting into place? surely we're not goi to cut defense and nothing else. >> i agree. do they do the kick the can thing. if you are an investor you have to worry about a delay. >> i don't know, maybe a few months, bring in a new congress. >> the alternative minimum tax hasn't been fixed for the current tax year for 2012. >> there is a whole (a) minimum tax that the american public

should know, they assume that money, $900 billion... it will always be there. >> neil: i want you to listen to this. >> one possible scenario, i don't like it, that is we just kick the can down the road, sort of suspend everything for x number of weeks or months. >> neil: john mccain didn't like the idea. that is what is really going on. someone from the forbes gang says that is the best thing they could do. they explain and you decide coming up at the top of the hour. up next, rage rising from pro union protestors. the outrage over the tactics they use.

>>. >> neil: tis the season for union protesting. a baby trying to get the point across in michigan. what happened at the right to work protests. that is the way to get your message out. >> desperate times call for desperate measures and unions are desperate. with the percentage that are unionized below 7% at this point and tactics that you saw in michigan, you create a spectacle you get a microphone in front of your face that isn't true, the

right to work laws like when they got proposal 2 and it blew up in their faces. that is why the governor moved away from right to work. >> neil: i'm pretty confident the violent protestors are the exception to the rule here. they don't put a good face on americans looking at this. what is the fallout? >> the fallout we had a similar rits movement with martin luther king nonviolent protests. that changed the mind of the whole country and african-american people were approaching it with non-violence. here we have thugs and goons going after law abiding people in the state of michigan. i'm embarrassed for the union movement. >> i agree with dagen and ben.

this is violent intimidation, what they would i will pose on their own members. who wants that. who wants to work under that? they did the biggest disservice this week. it probably one or two guys that physical aspect but it is part of that feeling with physical intimidation. it used to work. >> neil: 24 states that are right to work states. the argument is push is on to make them all 50 states. it will be a uphill battle in new york but where is this going? >> as someone -- my father was an iron worker. i've been to strikes. i could tell you that when i was kid, they would say violence for the scabs. they would not be beating up the porters. this new low. my father is probably turning

over his grave. i will point out this, though, it's minority i believe. i believe a lot of this stuff is unions themselves being desperate and shipping people in. i know a lot of union people. the last person they are going to take their ire out is fox news correspondent. >> at that point union leadership has to be nervous about michigan is the birthplace of the uaw. michigan represents unions. the fact that that state turned.... >> their worry should be about the economy. the economy is lousy. president promised shovel-ready jobs, and guess what, you got solyndra. what is fascinating about this, union leadership still blames republicans and conservatives, fox news when their real problem clearly is the fact that president obama basically with his stimulus package and this

economy has sold them out. >> the violent actions are either in the minority or not. you basically all said that they are. therefore, it is the exception. when someone loses a political fight they protest. that is great thing about democracy. throwing into solyndra in there. here is where you are wrong. let me explain. >> this is the sin of obama economics it was supposed to go to shovel-ready jobs and men and women would partake in. it was handed to states so they could keep their pension funds flh and finance things like solyndra. even the president joked about there was no shovel-ready jobs. the labor movement should be mad at the president, not at

republicans and not at fox news. >> neil: they did help push them over the finish line. >> but back to politics, i agree that is the political process we're seeing here. >> neil: i have no idea where we ended up but that is fine. just a dime for the holiday. one airline is giving flyers the gift of new speed.

>>. >> neil: american airlines offering round trip tickets but for a price bundling service like raking up to $88. >> these guys are ranging in billions. it reminds me you go to chinatown, if you pay us now we won't shake you down for more later. i don't know the last time american airlines flight had an ash tray in the bathroom door. i'm a little nervous about that. >> an ash tray, that is 25-30-year-old plane. >> they can charge whatever they want. they don't need to spruce up the

planes they are fu double l. they are full. >> and dagen's point. neatly packaged housing and we have kind of screw you package and screw you over the top package. you can sign on. whatever. is this capitalism? >> were you talking to me? >> the fact of the matter, neil, charles's point the chinese mafia difference and them and american airlines, they made money at extortion game. american airlines and other airlines are not particularly good at screwing people. they don't do a good job of making money. >> neil: will this make them more money. >> they were making billions.

>> i don't disagree. >> since 1980. industry has not been able to keep up wh inflation but that is their fault. the fact of the matter it's marketing. when they shake you for a couple bucks here or the. >> who would dare shake you down. you should see charlie after the show. ben stein? >> the airlines don't make any money, as dagen, it's pure market capitalism. aviation has not been a good business model. it should never been deregulated. i feel sorry for the airlines. i love american. they treat me like gold. >> because you are famous. >> you are first class, ben. [ laughter ] >> and dagen mcdowell doesn't fly first class. >> i fly coach sometimes but

irst class recently, it's still s.u.x.. >> i want to thank dagen, and holiday shoppers but our gang says forget the mall. go for shopping on wall street the stocks that keep on giving long after santa. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ ♪

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>>. >> neil: charms what do you got. >> an amazing company, they had a tough year, but china is rebounding and make a lot of money. >> caterpillar on global recovery. what do you think of that. >> i like cater pillar for quite a long tim whether or not the economy recovers, it's a good. >> neil: what are you buying? >> vanguard re-index. the criticism i wanted to pick something, it has a generous yield. >> neil: i love that company. i love vanguard. i love reit and it's a great gift. biggest index of them b.t.